Incorrect username or password

 
12-05-2021 04:18
|
Season 78 · Week 6 · Day 37
|
Online: 2 904

Football

Football » English » ManagerZone talk

Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.
Views: 11791 Posts: 712
Previous
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 >|
Next
Reply
Last Message

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[FALCO]
President
frony wrote:
If you really want MZ to be a managerial game please stop making changes during the season, it feels like it's runned by amateurs this game.
I have planned the campus of the youths of this season by leaving at last the youths that would have had a perfect youth campus, and at the beginning I've preferred to send to the campus the youths that should have needed a more specific one.
In insight with all these changes I would have organized everything in a different way, and I know I'm not the one.
Every managerial change during the season is crap even if it's going to be the best change ever for the game.


+1

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
mayunga wrote:
I mean, I see what you mean - but everyone's in that situation so you could say, it's fair?


That's only an excuse Lance Armstrong would use

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
engerek01 wrote:
2. It was announced in the NEWS at the beginning of the season that this new feature would be implemented during the season. You should plan accordingly. It's not MZ's fault that people don't read the NEWS or plan accordingly. Implementing what you said you would is not being amateurs. It is the exact opposite.


Making managerial changes during the season is not acceptable, the fact that they wrote it before doesn't make it a good choice.
When you say that I should have planned accordingly what do you mean? There wasn't any date of release written on it, how could you plan something without knowing when it will start? If there was a release date written I would accept your point but that's not the case

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
What is the most important thing to take away from the tool?

Training speed? Best skills?

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
frony wrote:
Making managerial changes during the season is not acceptable, the fact that they wrote it before doesn't make it a good choice...


Why not acceptable? Games do that all the time. Even manufacturing companies (car, home furniture etc) write in their agreement that they can alter the product anytime at their will for the better version without notification. How is it not acceptable while we live in a world where it happens everywhere, all the time?

Also, why is such an amazing feature implementation is a bad thing? Would it be better if it was implemented in the beginning of the the next season and people try to figure out what the hell is going on while the new youth arrives? It would be a nightmare for most managers. At Least now, people have time to digest the system and understand the process.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
To be honest I think that releasing the tool now if anything is an advantage, the player's skills will be the same regardless and you get information from two different scouting methods both providing information about your players instead of just one, how can getting more information be a disadvantage?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
engerek01 wrote:
Why not acceptable? Games do that all the time. Even manufacturing companies (car, home furniture etc) write in their agreement that they can alter the product anytime at their will for the better version without notification. How is it not acceptable while we live in a world where it happens everywhere, all the time?

Also, why is such an amazing feature implementation is a bad thing? Would it be better if it was implemented in the beginning of the the next season and people try to figure out what the hell is going on while the new youth arrives? It would be a nightmare for most managers. At Least now, people have time to digest the system and understand the process.


+1x1000000000000

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
darkline wrote:
To be honest I think that releasing the tool now if anything is an advantage, the player's skills will be the same regardless and you get information from two different scouting methods both providing information about your players instead of just one, how can getting more information be a disadvantage?


+1x100000000

People are just naturally negative darkline. It's unfortunate

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
If you have alot of players to camp and you are relying into YTC being an option for some of your players you would be pissed off aswell. Removing it without giving players a proper date when it is going to be removed is just bad. They gave us but they also took from us without an proper notice. It just shows lack of management that you aren't able to give a proper date for an update. When the update was finished why didn't the crew inform us the official release date?

I don't mind the new youth system but how it was implemented was straight up disaster.

Compared to other games they always give a date ahead for DLC, Patches and so on.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
If I recall correctly crew said the tool was going to be released mid-season, that target was missed by a few weeks but then again, I see big game companies missing the target for game releases by years so it's really not that bad.

I sent all my youths to TC relying on the information provided by the YTC and I'm not pissed, on the contrary, I'm happy with the extra information because it helped me decide to get rid of 2 youths as I know now their potential is not as good as I thought. Would you have done anything different if the tool has been released next season instead of now? No, because you wouldn't have the extra training information you now have, with this extra bit of information you can draw some conclusions and decide to swap a couple of players.

You can always just ignore the extra information given by the new scout and pretend you don't have it, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I know a few managers that did just that because they trained their players according to the YTC and prefer to keep doing what they where doing instead of relying on the new information provided.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Yea but if you talk about missing release dates they give you a new one right? We never got a date and that's the issue you can always delay release date of something but we were never given one.

If the tool was released next season no I wouldn't have done anything differently. But if I had the date of release I would have done things differently, no matter if it got delayed or not.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
jere92 wrote:
Yea but if you talk about missing release dates they give you a new one right? We never got a date and that's the issue you can always delay release date of something but we were never given one.

If the tool was released next season no I wouldn't have done anything differently. But if I had the date of release I would have done things differently, no matter if it got delayed or not.


Maybe crew can give to users some extra young changes because of delaying. It's just suggestion.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Handing out something isn't necessary. There never was a delay of anything, cos we didn't have a release date. I'm just disappointed how this thing was implemented without a proper release date. My issue is not with the lack of exchanges, cos you can have them all maxed out at all times if needed. It's with removal of YTC without a proper notice, cos I can't send out my players to camps whenever I want. I can exchange my youths tho whenever I feel like it.

The new youth systems is cool and there is nothing wrong with that. But things could have been implemented much more professional way.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
jere92 wrote:
... There never was a delay of anything, cos we didn't have a release date. I'm just disappointed how this thing was implemented without a proper release date...


I think Crew wanted to make a surprise and assumed everyone reads the news but I also do understand your point. Things would have gone "classier" if they had given a few weeks notice. Like "hey gals and gums, our new youth report is ready we'll deploy it next week".

As a compensation, maybe Crew can hand out some "Training Camp Exchanges" so people like you can send at least some of their players to the camps they truly desire.

Trying to find a common ground here. Help me out :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Mistakes were made and ofc people will be angry that their plans didn't go as they planned them to go. My plans also got mixed, but I have those exchanges to fix things. Someone might not.

I personally don't need compensation and im not asking for it.

For conclusion we can learn a thing or two from here for the future updates.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
darkline wrote:
To be honest I think that releasing the tool now if anything is an advantage, the player's skills will be the same regardless and you get information from two different scouting methods both providing information about your players instead of just one, how can getting more information be a disadvantage?


Exactly, we have half a season to analyze and understand this new system.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
engerek01 wrote:
As a compensation, maybe Crew can hand out some "Training Camp Exchanges" so people like you can send at least some of their players to the camps they truly desire.

Trying to find a common ground here. Help me out :)


This is a great idea :))))

According to me , this app will be great. Because We will know how to guide our youth. Surely time will tell us.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[POW]
President
@jere92: I see your point. There were various reasons for releasing the new feature when we did, and there is probably never a good time for adding something that changes the game in a big way, but I can understand if the timing disrupted your youth training plan.

I think engerek01 had a good idea. We will look into adding a couple of free training exchanges to everyone who has been active this season. Hopefully that, paired with the new youth packages that we released, should ensure that you can send all your youths to meaningful camps. We probably can't add them today, so it will be next week.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
powdersnow wrote:
@jere92: I see your point. There were various reasons for releasing the new feature when we did, and there is probably never a good time for adding something that changes the game in a big way, but I can understand if the timing disrupted your youth training plan.

I think engerek01 had a good idea. We will look into adding a couple of free training exchanges to everyone who has been active this season. Hopefully that, paired with the new youth packages that we released, should ensure that you can send all your youths to meaningful camps. We probably can't add them today, so it will be next week.


+1 - better community awareness than Activision, fantastic work powdersnow

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
powdersnow wrote:
@jere92: I see your point. There were various reasons for releasing the new feature when we did, and there is probably never a good time for adding something that changes the game in a big way, but I can understand if the timing disrupted your youth training plan.

I think engerek01 had a good idea. We will look into adding a couple of free training exchanges to everyone who has been active this season. Hopefully that, paired with the new youth packages that we released, should ensure that you can send all your youths to meaningful camps. We probably can't add them today, so it will be next week.


Is it possible to get extra youth exchange after releasing? Because it also caused some youngs need to go out. We have to change our strategy because of new system.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[RAF]
President
I also believe that this improvement is MAJOR and very welcome and a great step forward for this game. Furthermore, I wouldn't make it any less simpler because there still needs to be some mistery and managerial decisions involved and not everything served to you on a silver platter.

However, I also believe that, in this context, it becomes a matter of principle to reconsider the number of youth exchanges a manager can do weekly, since 3 proposals/week might not be enough. I already have half the youths in need of exchange, either because early maxings or low potential.

Btw, I would very much like to know the criteria by which the scout provides the general overview opinion on a player: top class, elite, potential, rather crap or to be discarded. I don't want to speculate but then again, I think it's important to know how this conclusion is drawn, since I already have a player who is considered top class yet he maxed in 7 speed (green is 4* HP, yellow is 2* LP):
James Blønd

Age: 26



Thanks and keep up the good work!

PS: None of the youths had contradictory skills chosen in YTC as opposed to the new scout system. There are some for whom the skills chosen as HP would probably not have led me to train them for a specific position but then again, a shift in the training paradygm is not necessarily bad and I like it brings a new angle to a core part of the game, youth training.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
3 proposals exchange juniors per week is ok, because more can destroy the balance in the game. In the past, individual leagues had distinct differences in team strength. Now these differences are very small. Diversity among players is also getting smaller. Any such exchange in a system that significantly facilitates decision-making by the manager over time worsens the situation. We've already got unlimited Youth Conditioning Camps. That is enough.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
firefox78 wrote:
3 proposals exchange juniors per week is ok, because more can destroy the balance in the game. In the past, individual leagues had distinct differences in team strength. Now these differences are very small. Diversity among players is also getting smaller. Any such exchange in a system that significantly facilitates decision-making by the manager over time worsens the situation. We've already got unlimited Youth Conditioning Camps. That is enough.


I just want extra young exchange for just this period (for 2 weeks) because of new system. 3 of week young exchange per enough for normal seson I mean next season.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
@zargan123 - One-time extra young exchange is ok.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
civilu wrote:
...Btw, I would very much like to know the criteria by which the scout provides the general overview opinion on a player: top class, elite, potential, rather crap or to be discarded. I don't want to speculate but then again, I think it's important to know how this conclusion is drawn,....


I wouldn't really look at the scout comment since it is a scripted auto message based on lowest and highest potantial star ratings. There are 5 kinds (HP-LP); 4-2, 4-1, 3-2, 3-1, 2-2. So it will always say the same thing if highest is 3 and lowest is 2.

For example, The Scout would say "Amazing" for a player in Hockey because he has 4 stars and yet he would be useless for me if Power maxed early (unless it is a goal-keeper). So I make my own comments when I see the report ;)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
powdersnow wrote:
@jere92: I see your point. There were various reasons for releasing the new feature when we did, and there is probably never a good time for adding something that changes the game in a big way, but I can understand if the timing disrupted your youth training plan.

I think engerek01 had a good idea. We will look into adding a couple of free training exchanges to everyone who has been active this season. Hopefully that, paired with the new youth packages that we released, should ensure that you can send all your youths to meaningful camps. We probably can't add them today, so it will be next week.


Hi Crew, they could study also put it
new package:
tackling - Aerial passing
stamina- Aerial passing
Thx

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[ENG]
President
Out of interest prior to the introduction of this feature. Did anyone still believe the theory that maxings weren't pre-determined at 'birth'?

Was quite a popular theory a few years back that a max/not max was calculated upon the receipt of a training ball.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[王者归来]
President
I want to make a postulate here:
1 star LP would have a 4 and LP has a 4 would be 1 star. So 44,45,46,47 and then 48 would be a star. 55, 56 would be 2 star LP.

This postulate is very different from total balls theory. It means that if a 4 is verified in 1 star LP and then the other LP can be 4-8. The possibility of 47 in 1 star LP is much higher than in the total balls theory. This postulates can perfectly explain why 7 can be 1 star LP and 56 is 2 star LP.

Does anyone have a player who does not obey this postulate?

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Crew sells 4 exchanges for 8 tokens in the training camp section.
We only get it once a season.
There are few camp exchanges in 23 players. it should increase the amount of 8-10-11 no longer can adjust the token fee accordingly. Or we have the right to get 4 camp changes twice in the season.
The right to change four at the moment is very little.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Okay, we all got 2 free training exchanges for the debacle. now everyone quit complaining.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
paradoxjor wrote:
I want to make a postulate here:
1 star LP would have a 4 and LP has a 4 would be 1 star. So 44,45,46,47 and then 48 would be a star. 55, 56 would be 2 star LP.

This postulate is very different from total balls theory. It means that if a 4 is verified in 1 star LP and then the other LP can be 4-8. The possibility of 47 in 1 star LP is much higher than in the total balls theory. This postulates can perfectly explain why 7 can be 1 star LP and 56 is 2 star LP.

Does anyone have a player who does not obey this postulate?


That's actually a very good approach and it is one of my early hypothesis. So far this works 1 and 2 star ratings but it does not when it comes to 3 and 4 star as High Potential, since skills that max at 9 and 10 can be both 3 and 4 stars.

The Hypothesis I am currently working on is that the star rating is the average of 3 or 4 highest and lowest skills. The crew kinda confirmed that in the news where they said "star ratings are based on a few skills".

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
This is my youth scenario (stars/Max):

https://ibb.co/5GLhPXW

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
logarta wrote:
This is my youth scenario (stars/Max):

https://ibb.co/5GLhPXW


Oh thanks for this!

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
This is my conclusion of the whole system and the likelihood of the player maxing in a certain skill.

High Potential

⭐⭐⭐⭐
50% chance to recieve 10 balls
50% chance to recieve 9 balls

⭐⭐⭐
10% chance to recieve 10 balls
50% chance to recieve 9 balls
30% chance to recieve 8 balls
10% chance to recieve 7 balls

⭐⭐
5% chance to recieve 10 balls
15% chance to recieve 9 balls
30% chance to recieve 8 balls
30% chance to recieve 7 balls
20% chance to recieve 6 balls


0% chance to recieve 8,9 or 10 balls
10% chance to recieve 7 balls
40% chance to recieve 6 balls
30% chance to recieve 5 balls
20% chance to recieve 4 balls


Low Potential

⭐⭐⭐⭐
50% chance to recieve 10 balls
50% chance to recieve 9 balls

⭐⭐⭐
10% chance to recieve 10 balls
50% chance to recieve 9 balls
30% chance to recieve 8 balls
10% chance to recieve 7 balls

⭐⭐
5% chance to recieve 8 balls
20% chance to recieve 7 balls
30% chance to recieve 6 balls
30% chance to recieve 5 balls
15% chance to recieve 4 balls


20% chance to recieve 6 balls
40% chance to recieve 5 balls
40% chance to recieve 4 balls

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
mosmosmos wrote:
Out of interest prior to the introduction of this feature. Did anyone still believe the theory that maxings weren't pre-determined at 'birth'?

Was quite a popular theory a few years back that a max/not max was calculated upon the receipt of a training ball.


I can't remember this hearing this argument, must of been before my time 10 plus years ago.

But we can all safely say now that maxing are predetermined for each player, this tool at least removes 90% of the wait and see approach we all had to take. We'll still have to give it a 1-2 years to know what's going on for certain, but this is much better than before.

I posted my whole squad to compare the old YTC function and the new one a few pages back and the difference was to be expected in some areas but others were surprising.

The most interesting thing I find it what skills the new tool identified for player that got speed, stamina & shooting or tackling under the old YTC regime. As we all know they were the ones with the most talent and it still seems that way now.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
For instance, none of these players were below 3 stars and one was 4 stars.

(Yellow flags are the old YTC skills, Green flags are the new HP & Red flags are the new LP)

Grant Sinden

Age: 24

Arsa Hol

Age: 24

Charles Whittington

Age: 24

Stan Boyce

Age: 24



So make for me it's a safe bet they will still be useful players at the least

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Where I was surprised, was how many goalkeepers that were identified under the old YTC system, were not identified as keepers with the new system.

For me this was 33%, I had 6 keepers identified before, of which only 2 were still identified as keepers using the new system

Luckily the best talent was still identified as a keeper - Both 3 star keeping potential, one with 4 star youth training speed which is in line with what I expected him to be based on training graph data

Myles Kile

Age: 24

Payton Berresford

Age: 24



But these two (I've exchanged the other two old keepers) were not - Kent was identified as a 3 star striker

Kent Goldsmith

Age: 24

Albert Owens

Age: 24

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Yes, I had a few of these players as well. 1 Is a 7 ball striker (so far) and the new scout says he's a 3 star keeper?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
xxlnomadlxx wrote:
Yes, I had a few of these players as well. 1 Is a 7 ball striker (so far) and the new scout says he's a 3 star keeper?


Sure about that question mark?
How the new thing identify keepers please explain..

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
If I knew, I would be explaining it lol. (I have no clue how to paste skills on here)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[王者归来]
President
https://imgur.com/bBeImJL
https://imgur.com/TlR3ywS

My friend has a player with 3*HP speed and stamina. But the speed is maxed at 8.
He will train stamina to 9 and see if stamina is maxed at 9. So 3*HP with a 8 is possible.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
paradoxjor wrote:
https://imgur.com/bBeImJL
https://imgur.com/TlR3ywS

My friend has a player with 3*HP speed and stamina. But the speed is maxed at 8.
He will train stamina to 9 and see if stamina is maxed at 9. So 3*HP with a 8 is possible.


Thanks for sharing that. With that we now have...

**** FACTS ****
4 Star can max at 9
3 Star can be 10-9
3 Star can max at 8
2 Star can be 10 !!!
2 Star can be 8-9
2 Star can max at 5-6
1 Star can be 6

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
paradoxjor wrote:
https://imgur.com/bBeImJL
https://imgur.com/TlR3ywS

My friend has a player with 3*HP speed and stamina. But the speed is maxed at 8.
He will train stamina to 9 and see if stamina is maxed at 9. So 3*HP with a 8 is possible.


The players stamina can be 10! trust me;)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
I think you guys are just overthinking this, scouts just give an educated guess, so basically a 4 star skill is more likely to go to 10 than a 3 star or a 2 star... so a 2 star can be 10, but what percentile of 2 star players actually go to 10? 0.5%?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
For the record (and perhaps I hadn't thought this through until day 1 of new season), I'm seriously not a fan of a players new feature scout report showing in the transfer market. It's going to totally devalue players based on the perception of a low star report when many clubs rely on selling players to generate important funds.

Objectively why would a buying club have access to this info anyway?

I see this as linked to Youth Potential Tool thread but happy for it to be moved to a new thread if deemed conflicting to everyone's calcs on how the ratings work.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
uppdate

Low potential.


5% chance to receive 7 balls
15% chance to recieve 6 balls
40% chance to recieve 5 balls
40% chance to recieve 4 balls

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
webregas wrote:
For the record (and perhaps I hadn't thought this through until day 1 of new season), I'm seriously not a fan of a players new feature scout report showing in the transfer market. It's going to totally devalue players based on the perception of a low star report when many clubs rely on selling players to generate important funds.

Objectively why would a buying club have access to this info anyway?

I see this as linked to Youth Potential Tool thread but happy for it to be moved to a new thread if deemed conflicting to everyone's calcs on how the ratings work.


It means how much people will pay for a one off 10 ball skill in a young players will decline if they have a bad low potential skill.

But that is as it should be and as a result average prices should decline.

But really good players will probably sell for more.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
scruttino wrote:
It means how much people will pay for a one off 10 ball skill in a young players will decline if they have a bad low potential skill.

But that is as it should be and as a result average prices should decline.

But really good players will probably sell for more.


I agree. However, my question is why a buying manager should be able to see this?

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
@webregas - Maybe the buying manager should know how to develop the talent of the player best?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
webregas wrote:
I agree. However, my question is why a buying manager should be able to see this?


Well, it adds value to players that otherwise would be pretty worthless, I saw a couple of teams fighting to buy a 2 balls keeper because he had a high 4 in keeping, guy was maxed at 5 tackling if I recall correctly but had decent secondary skills for a keeper already trained, that's a player that would have been discarded otherwise and no one would even attempt to train as a keeper, now the owner can expect to get decent money for him instead, of course the other side of the coin is that players with poor potential with fetch less money on the market.

I think it's pretty fair, you win some and you lose some....
Previous
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 >|
Next