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17-06-2021 06:24
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Season 78 · Week 11 · Day 73
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Football » English » ManagerZone talk

Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.
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Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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Powdersnow please make it clear min and max limit for all star ratings! Or how can we calculate or estimate for them? It seems there is no difference between 2,3,4 stars. We are so confused now.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[POW]
President
Thanks to some quick feedback from the community we were able to spot and fix a bug in the newly released Scout Report. In some cases, the Youth Training Speed would show a higher rating that is actually the case.

This bug only affected 18 year old players, and roughly 6% of them. These reports have been altered and now show the correct Youth Training Speed. So if one of your 18 year old players appears to have had his training speed "demoted", that is why. Our apologies!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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cm33 wrote:
Yes, it works on mobiles. Try a different browser.


I'm using Chrome :(

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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powdersnow wrote:
Thanks to some quick feedback from the community we were able to spot and fix a bug in the newly released Scout Report. In some cases, the Youth Training Speed would show a higher rating that is actually the case.

This bug only affected 18 year old players, and roughly 6% of them. These reports have been altered and now show the correct Youth Training Speed. So if one of your 18 year old players appears to have had his training speed "demoted", that is why. Our apologies!


Amazing speed! Thank you. My Player 207996360 shows the correct training speed now, which is 1 hehe :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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dimes89 wrote:
i have 3 youths with 9 balls on speed and they have only 2 stars as highest potentiall.
So 2 stars can mean 9 balls... So, from that info, in that case, i'm pretty sure these players will not reach 9 balls in any others skills.
Great, seems to be a great improvment wich will kill the TL, the youth development and fun of training reports,and also 9 months of my time to develop thes players wich now will not worth a penny .Maybe i'm pessimist but that is my first feelings about this new feature.

GOOD JOB!


Yes Friend. I have one player identical, 2 star but 9 ball tackling

Pablo-Enrique Fontiveros

Age: 25

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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My youths look like this, on average:

2.65 Stars Highest Potential
1.48 Stars Lowest Potential
2.35 Stars Training Speed

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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Final verdict.

Assumptions:
1. High and Low potential stars have the same range.
2. The stars are based on average of 2 highest skills.

4 Star: Total of 19 or 20
9-10
10-10

3 Star: Total of 18
9-9
8-10

2 Star: Total of between 12-17
4-8, 4-9, 4-10
5-7, 5-8, 5-9, 5-10
6-6, 6-7, 6-8, 6-9, 6-10
7-7, 7-8, 7-9, 7-10
8-8, 8-9

1 Star: Total 8-11
4-4, 4-5, 4-6, 4-7
5-5, 5-6

Some cases like 2 Star 4-10 sounds impossible but it is within the possibilities. Also, 2 Star has a crazy amount of range if my observations are correct. Feel free to show any players against that table.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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4 stars is 2x10. The player below has 8+ fitness and 9+ speed. in the report will receive 3 stars in speed and fitness

Zachary Gejda

Age: 26

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

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What if: High Potential 3 star player maxes on the mentioned HIPO skills @10 and 8.

Does this mean he will never obtain another 9 in other skill?

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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htznawca wrote:
4 stars is 2x10. The player below has 8+ fitness and 9+ speed. in the report will receive 3 stars in speed and fitness


Interesting. I showed earlier one of my players who maxed at 9 despite showing 4 Stars in that skill. So 4 Star is definitely not a guaranteed 10-10. However, if your player will see 10-9 and is 3 Star, that means the calculation either is not based on average or it is based on average of more than 2 skills.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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thendric wrote:
What if: High Potential 3 star player maxes on the mentioned HIPO skills @10 and 8.

Does this mean he will never obtain another 9 in other skill?


Yes.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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Hey if the player is 2 star on best attributes then that means 2 average on the best few attributes. If that player has 9 in tackling, then he probably hasn't got a lot in any other attribute. There are no exact maxing values for their star values.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Is the "set plays" skill supposed to be in the reports? and specially on the "highest potential" one?

I might have misread it (or maybe it was a suggestion from users and not official from CREW), but I thought "set plays" was supposed to stay out of the reports...

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

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engerek01 wrote:
Yes.


Supposing analyst is always right...

aldebaran wrote:
Is the "set plays" skill supposed to be in the reports? and specially on the "highest potential" one?

I might have misread it (or maybe it was a suggestion from users and not official from CREW), but I thought "set plays" was supposed to stay out of the reports...


Idem...

Ang: Youth Potential Tool

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panboy wrote:
Hey if the player is 2 star on best attributes then that means 2 average on the best few attributes. If that player has 9 in tackling, then he probably hasn't got a lot in any other attribute. There are no exact maxing values for their star values.


If there are no lower maxing caps within the stars they are utterly pointless.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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That a main skill does not appear in the "new scoute" seems unpresentable to me.
Do not mess up what is good.

How do I interpret this? What does this juvenile play?
scouteo package:

Play Intellig. / Set plays
Stamina / Set Plays
Heading / Set plays
Set Plays / Passing

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
I think you also need to pay attention to what the scout is telling you about the player, couple of hints about the player total potential in there I believe....


Hi, You mean this?

"Eztebe Barzurqueta is versatile but seems to lack any real key strengths. I would be careful about investing too much of our club funds into his development, but you are the boss."

"Christopher Pike is versatile and shows a lot of potential. I wouldn't be surprised if he develops into an elite player should you decide to give him a chance."

should we also interpret this?

Thx.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
What are the low skills? I interpret it as he has many skills with a value equal or close to the high skills.
Edited: 12-06-2019 21:03
Total edits: 1

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
What are the low skills? I interpret it as he has many skills with a value equal or close to the high skills.


No. What scout says changes based on the Highest and Lowest potential stars. So a scout report with 3 Star in High Potential and 2 star in Low potential will always say the same thing and so on.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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Bekir İlteber

Age: 26




Example of a Player with 4 Stars in Highest Potential who maxed at 9. I assume the rules for stars are the same in Hockey and Football.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I've posted all my youths on the greek forum with their skills, scout reports (where available) and their analysis report

in case if any of you would like to "monitor" their progress, you can find them here:

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12509206&forum_id=113&sport=soccer#44833380

(reports are in english)

tl;dr

a) I have a player with 3 stars in speed, marked high potential, that is training for his 10@

b) *edited by request* /powdersnow

c) I have a player that can train for a 9@speed, that doesn't have the speed skill mentioned in any report

d) I have a player with 2 stars in stamina/speed, both marked as high potential, maxed at 7@ and 9@ respectively
Edited: 12-06-2019 22:02
Total edits: 1

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
engerek01 wrote:
No. What scout says changes based on the Highest and Lowest potential stars. So a scout report with 3 Star in High Potential and 2 star in Low potential will always say the same thing and so on.


It wasn't a yes or no question 😄

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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falcao345 wrote:
Hi, You mean this?

"Eztebe Barzurqueta is versatile but seems to lack any real key strengths. I would be careful about investing too much of our club funds into his development, but you are the boss."

"Christopher Pike is versatile and shows a lot of potential. I wouldn't be surprised if he develops into an elite player should you decide to give him a chance."

should we also interpret this?

Thx.


if the text report "generation" is anything similar, like the coach negotiation text or even the match report text...then I don't think we should pay any attention to them (waiting for an LA to drop a hint on this one :P )

Ang: Youth Potential Tool

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@aldebaran

Your 3 star player is not maxed in Aerial Passing. He has 6 in tackling at least the one you have shown.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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tojosular wrote:
@aldebaran

Your 3 star player is not maxed in Aerial Passing. He has 6 in tackling at least the one you have shown.


i stand corrected!
my mistake!
I would love if you could edit that

thanks in advance!

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
It wasn't a yes or no question 😄


My bad Mr Fury :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
aldebaran wrote:
if the text report "generation" is anything similar, like the coach negotiation text or even the match report text...then I don't think we should pay any attention to them (waiting for an LA to drop a hint on this one :P )


Maybe you're right, is just that they seem to be the correct advice for most of my players but maybe it was just luck.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I have thought of a new Flag System that should help our new needs, now with the YTC skills gone.

Yellow = 4 stars strength
Yellow+Green = 3 stars strength
Yellow+Green+Red = 2 star strength

Green = 3 star weakness
Green+Red = 2 star weakness
Red = 1 star weakness.

The logic is simple: Yellow means late maxing, while Red means early maxing, probably at 4-6.
Meanwhile Red+Green means probably 6-7, Green is 7-8 etc.

For me, it helps.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
Maybe you're right, is just that they seem to be the correct advice for most of my players but maybe it was just luck.


I have a full academy hockey team that I use mainly as a "training calculation playground"

Me thinks I'm going to have lots of fun starting new season...
I'm going to "hunt" those 1 star low potential skills and see what I come up with :P

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I’m thinking similar to engerek. What’s interesting with this though is that you can have 2 9 balls in your 3 star high potential skills. Then your low potential 2 stars might be a 6 and a 10 ball . Crazy haha

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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onetouchmatty wrote:
I’m thinking similar to engerek. What’s interesting with this though is that you can have 2 9 balls in your 3 star high potential skills. Then your low potential 2 stars might be a 6 and a 10 ball . Crazy haha


No.

Highest skills means The Highest, while lowest skills means The Lowest.
It's simple grammar.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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The new scout system is mindblowing.
Most of my juniors do not match to what I was told before about them. Looks like the new scouter did not speak a word to the former one and the coincidence in data are simply probabilistic.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I have an 18 yr old youth who has 10 in speed
He is a 3 star potential ? I’m confused

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

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Anything campus for keeper is a very bad thing

Απ: Youth Potential Tool

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Training 3 keepers in my academy
18/17/16 year old
Got the new scout reports
NOONE has keeping in 5he skills (wtf..?)
Also got the reports for the whole 23 academy trainees
Zero keepers
Give me a break
(Also discard 9 exchange youths / zero keepers)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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frankiejhoffa wrote:
I have an 18 yr old youth who has 10 in speed
He is a 3 star potential ? I’m confused


I believe this means that the second skill highlighted as "high potential" will max at 8 or less.
The way I'm reading it is, 4 stars will mean the combined balls for the two high skills will be 19 or 20.
So in your case, he will have 10 speed, but say 7/8 for his other high skill (and no other skill going beyond 7/8 balls)
This is assuming speed was identified as a high skill? If not, my rational is a bust!

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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[TDF]
President
I guess it's like this:
⭐⭐⭐⭐ = Min 9, max 10
⭐⭐⭐ = Min 8, max 9
⭐⭐ = Min 7, max 8
⭐ = Min 4, max 7

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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[TDF]
President
manekaster wrote:

⭐ = Min 4, max 7

A typo in my last post. Max here should have been 6.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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[TDF]
President
darkline wrote:
So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?


It depends on whether he has ⭐⭐⭐ or ⭐⭐ in goalkeeping. You know that he is either 2 or 3 stars, but which of the levels.

My data is yet to be comprehensive, but at this I've got 8 youths with ⭐⭐ at minimum 7 balls. No players have maxed before 7 with ⭐⭐. 2 of them maxed at 7 balls, 3 of them are unmaxed at 7, and the last 3 maxed at 8.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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[TDF]
President
manekaster wrote:
I guess it's like this:
⭐⭐⭐⭐ = Min 9, max 10
⭐⭐⭐ = Min 8, max 9
⭐⭐ = Min 7, max 8
⭐ = Min 4, max 7


Ahh. I didn't read all the 86 posts, but I can see after reading a bit more that this in't as accurate as I thought.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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For those interested in what a full squad of 16 year old players looks like when comparing the old YTC system, against the new youth analysis tool, here is my full squad.

Yellow flags are the old YTC skills
Green flags are the new youth analysis high potential skills
Red flags are the new youth analysis low potential skills

Based on the new knowledge, I've also adjusted the squad in range of potential, with players that have a mixture of good potential in say shooting or tackling, but low potential in key skills like speed or stamina, sort of in the middle to bottom as I'm interested to see what they actually max at.

Interestingly of the 5 keepers on the squad only 2 came back with high potential in keeping

Plus there are still some ambiguous areas - such training speed potential when compared with what the past training graphs data actually is for instance. Not for all, but a few are definitely wrong

You don't get all the answers, but it is better

Myles Kile

Age: 24

SpeedSpSpeed: 7(7)
StaminaStStamina: 8(8)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 8(8)
PassingPaPassing: 5(5)
ShootingShShooting: 1(1)
HeadingHeHeading: 4(4)
KeepingKeKeeping: 10(10)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 6(6)
TacklingTaTackling: 2(2)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 10(10)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 4(4)
ExperienceExExperience: 8(8)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    65
Payton Berresford

Age: 24

Grant Sinden

Age: 24

Arsa Hol

Age: 24

Charles Whittington

Age: 24

Stan Boyce

Age: 24

Larkin Burmeister

Age: 24

Bradford Whitmore

Age: 24

Abbott Beale

Age: 24

Bartholemew Worsley

Age: 24

Jimmy Hendrix

Age: 24

Case Mcwilliam

Age: 24

Robert Guy

Age: 24

Dan Dorrell

Age: 24

Barnett Johnston

Age: 24

Kent Goldsmith

Age: 24

Berkeley Freel

Age: 24

Albert Owens

Age: 24

Cain Pears

Age: 24

Albert Willison

Age: 24

Chuck Maunsell

Age: 24

Bennett Muller

Age: 24

Rudy Crawford

Age: 24

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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If you want more information about the specifics of each players strengths and weaknesses my squad page & notes is all visible

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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manekaster wrote:
I guess it's like this:
⭐⭐⭐⭐ = Min 9, max 10
⭐⭐⭐ = Min 8, max 9
⭐⭐ = Min 7, max 8
⭐ = Min 4, max 7


More like
4 stars strengths = 9-10
3 stars strengths = 8-10
2 stars strengths = 7-9

2 stars weaknesses = 6-7
1 star weaknesses = 4-6

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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For my 18 year old players, the training analysis îs 100% real.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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And the last thing I will try to explic again is that the scouter is human and he will not be 100% accurate, but it's by far better than the YTC skills.
I have tonnes of examples when the YTC skills were wrong.

3 star strengths could be 9 9, 10 8, 10 9 and rarely 10 10.
Meanwhile 4 star strengths is guaranteed 10 9 and probably 10 10.

Thank you Crew!

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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It says that a ”few” skulle are included in the calculation. I think the three or four best skills counts. Then an average is counted. If 7,5-8,5 average is three stars it means the three best skills could be 10, 7, 7. If 8,5-10 is four stars it could be 10, 8, 8. Then only the two best skills are show. Thus a three star could be 10 skill and four star could be 8. These probably are not the values used, but you see my point.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Never in my book a 10 8 strength is a 4 stars player.
Powdersnow said that 4 stars means a high probability of 10 10, as it should be.
While 3 stars strengths is a high probability of 9 9 or 10 8, also as it should be.
I have 2 stars strengths at maxed 9 or green 8.
For me it's more than clear that training analysis is accurate.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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mihairo wrote:
Never in my book a 10 8 strength is a 4 stars player.
Powdersnow said that 4 stars means a high probability of 10 10, as it should be.


Which is why a 4 star high potential player in shooting & passing let's say, but 1 or 2 stars low potential in stamina or speed is not really a great player

The best you could hope for is your 1 or 2 star low potential being keeping & set plays, with 3 or 4 star potential in tackling/shooting with either stamina/speed

If your player has 1 star low potential in either speed or stamina then I can't imagine many people keeping those players, regardless of the same player having 4 star potential in shooting or tackling. As it would be a waste of time, but good to know about so you don't waste time with the player

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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panboy wrote:
It says that a ”few” skulle are included in the calculation. I think the three or four best skills counts. Then an average is counted. If 7,5-8,5 average is three stars it means the three best skills could be 10, 7, 7. If 8,5-10 is four stars it could be 10, 8, 8. Then only the two best skills are show. Thus a three star could be 10 skill and four star could be 8. These probably are not the values used, but you see my point.


Powdersnow said that some 3 Star players are National Team level and some 4 Star players may become "busts", so it's easier to believe you can't read too much on the stars, they are only telling about the two main skills and nothing beyond that.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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mihairo wrote:
For me it's more than clear that training analysis is accurate.


I've had a 1 star youth training speed player achieve 100% training efficiency at a YTC.

So clearly the player isn't a slow trainer. Most of the youth training speed estimates where correct but some are clearly not.
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