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24-01-2021 11:05
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Season 77 · Week 3 · Day 20
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Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.
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Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Not necessarily, he may also have 3 star potential as a keeper, but they can only list 2 skills with high potential (so he may max at 8/9 balls for ball control, passing and keeping??).

Whats everyones strike rate for 4 star youths? i have 5 of my 23 youths with 4 star potentials - seems that ratio is a bit high?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[Nati]
President
Need to revisit my flag usage: green for high, yellow for low and still red for max

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
diesel-7 wrote:
Whats everyones strike rate for 4 star youths? i have 5 of my 23 youths with 4 star potentials - seems that ratio is a bit high?


I only have 1 out of 23 with 4 stars and one of the skills is set pieces, lol

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Kimi Santahuhta

Age: 25



I have this dude with sp/st/ta from YTC and his potential shows 4 stars in stamina and shooting. So if I could have gotten another infomation earlier I wouldn't probably even got him tackling early on.

on the down side tho his lowest are 1 star in BC and AP. Gotta have to see how this thing is gonna take off.

Still upset about camps tho..

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:


So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.


Yes, i got one of my player with 2 star in highest potential and he end up in 8 balls.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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diesel-7 wrote:


Whats everyones strike rate for 4 star youths? i have 5 of my 23 youths with 4 star potentials - seems that ratio is a bit high?


I only got 1 from 23 players, so you are lucky in this point

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[TM]
President
i have 3 youths with 9 balls on speed and they have only 2 stars as highest potentiall.
So 2 stars can mean 9 balls... So, from that info, in that case, i'm pretty sure these players will not reach 9 balls in any others skills.
Great, seems to be a great improvment wich will kill the TL, the youth development and fun of training reports,and also 9 months of my time to develop thes players wich now will not worth a penny .Maybe i'm pessimist but that is my first feelings about this new feature.

GOOD JOB!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Seems like a good tool, my questions though will the transfer market become flooded with 4 star players as we know what to train them in now

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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killer for jere92 that ball control 1 since his shooting stamina is a 4 star plus his tackling looking like a 3 maybe a 4 too

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I’ve got a 9 ball shooter with 3 stars so 4 stars seems a guarantee of a ten .

Also is it always 2 skills shown ? If a player has 1 ten and all the rest 7, I would think to see just the 1 skill shown as potential 4 stars

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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9 ball speed only 2 stars for dimes89 ? That can’t be right ..

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

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Hi all,
i've a youth player obtained with an exchange and the scout said "shot - passing - control ball". So i've trained him as a stricker. Now the new system says high potential 4 stars in control ball and keeping and low potential 1 star in speed and tackling. Someone is able to explain me? He's a goalkeeper?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
jackmomo wrote:
Hi all,
i've a youth player obtained with an exchange and the scout said "shot - passing - control ball". So i've trained him as a stricker. Now the new system says high potential 4 stars in control ball and keeping and low potential 1 star in speed and tackling. Someone is able to explain me? He's a goalkeeper?


He should be a 10 ball keeper if you train him as a keeper.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[POW]
President
onetouchmatty wrote:
9 ball speed only 2 stars for dimes89 ? That can’t be right ..

That should mean that the other strength is fairly week.

onetouchmatty wrote:
I’ve got a 9 ball shooter with 3 stars so 4 stars seems a guarantee of a ten.
Also is it always 2 skills shown ? If a player has 1 ten and all the rest 7, I would think to see just the 1 skill shown as potential 4 stars

It would show the strongest skill (the ten) and then pick one randomly between the sevens to show.

zachw wrote:
Seems like a good tool, my questions though will the transfer market become flooded with 4 star players as we know what to train them in now

You will find many 3-star players too, trust me. :)

dimes89 wrote:
i have 3 youths with 9 balls on speed and they have only 2 stars as highest potentiall.
So 2 stars can mean 9 balls... So, from that info, in that case, i'm pretty sure these players will not reach 9 balls in any others skills.

There will be a transitional period between the old scout and the new, which means you will discover that a few of the youngsters in your team aren't as good as you though, or is better suited for another role than the one you picked. Unfortunately this transitional period is hard to avoid -- the old scout didn't give you much to go on, but now you have useful information. I hope you will like it once you start realizing how much more control it gives you.

diesel-7 wrote:
I have 5 of my 23 youths with 4 star potentials - seems that ratio is a bit high?

As we mentioned in the news, we have rebelanced the underlying numbers somewhat, which means any new Youths that enter the game will, generally speaking, have a slightly smaller chance of receiving high ball counts than the players who are already in your team (you will of course still be able to find very good players just like before). On the other hand, the new tool will make it faster and easier to find those players, so the two factors will balance each other out.

5 does sound very high though, you got lucky. :)

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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girondins77 wrote:
Need to revisit my flag usage: green for high, yellow for low and still red for max


You don't need to chance it. Flags were to remember them. The new report is visible at all times.

Question: The news says "A star rating between 1-4, which is based on a few of the player's highest potential attributes." Wasn't it supposed to be based on 2 highest skills? If it is not 2, does the report take the average of 3 or 4 skills when giving stars?

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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Will you explane what the stars mean?
4 star===>9-10
3 sat====>8-9
.
.
.
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Even if you wont explane, all managers will solve the algorithm with transfer markt after two or three seasons.
İn term of fairness, perhaps you will explane in advance?

Thnx

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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So hypothetically you could have a situation where you have a player with 10 tackling 10 set pieces and 9 Aerial balls but the scout will randomly display his set pieces and aerial balls as 4 star potential with no clue at all that this player could end up being a 10 ball tackler.

I think this is not good. Especially when such a player comes into the club with 1 or 0 balls in tackling.

I think a value based approached to this randomness would be best. Priority skills being shooting, tackling, keeping then the rest follow when listing the strongest attributes.

So if you end up with a 4 star player in set pieces and passing you know that he won't have any good main skills to train.

I like this new direction a lot but without this modification it will still be shooting in the dark with regards to training.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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engerek01 wrote:
You don't need to chance it. Flags were to remember them. The new report is visible at all times.

Question: The news says "A star rating between 1-4, which is based on a few of the player's highest potential attributes." Wasn't it supposed to be based on 2 highest skills? If it is not 2, does the report take the average of 3 or 4 skills when giving stars?


By what powdersnow is saying it is not two strongest skills but random selection of 2 strongest attributes. So you might have a third more valuable skill also maxing at 9 or 10 but you won't know.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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@killerbeeez
+1

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I have a player: 9 speed (maxed), 6 stamina(unmaxed), 6 ball controll(unmaxed); other 1-2 balls.
Report: high 2 stars: keeping, speed ; low 2 stars: tackling, stamina; advice: don't spend too much money on him.
So, 9 speed is high 2 stars; also, 6 unmaxed balls is a low 2 star. I don't really understand.. if 6 unmaxed is one of the lowest strength of this player... So he could end with 7 balls in all skills ?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
killerbeeez wrote:
By what powdersnow is saying it is not two strongest skills but random selection of 2 strongest attributes. So you might have a third more valuable skill also maxing at 9 or 10 but you won't know.


I think you also need to pay attention to what the scout is telling you about the player, couple of hints about the player total potential in there I believe....

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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romanasu wrote:
I have a player: 9 speed (maxed), 6 stamina(unmaxed), 6 ball controll(unmaxed); other 1-2 balls.
Report: high 2 stars: keeping, speed ; low 2 stars: tackling, stamina; advice: don't spend too much money on him.
So, 9 speed is high 2 stars; also, 6 unmaxed balls is a low 2 star. I don't really understand.. if 6 unmaxed is one of the lowest strength of this player... So he could end with 7 balls in all skills ?


I definitely think it could be simpler.

The thing is this game attracts people with high IQs so the developers always strive to make things challenging for managers even when they should be simple and clear.

This new feature for scouting should definitely embrace the simpler way of doing things. Playing the game with regard to tactics, understanding what skills actually do what, is tough enough so the starting point which is the training of youths should be very very simple with regard to scouting.

Because even once we get youth scouting and training simplified there are tonnes of complicated aspects of this game we can spend years mastering.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
I think you also need to pay attention to what the scout is telling you about the player, couple of hints about the player total potential in there I believe....


I don't think that even comes close to what I am proposing.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
killerbeeez wrote:
I don't think that even comes close to what I am proposing.


The scout is extremely easy to use and gives tons of information, I'm just giving you a tip about how to use it. If it was any easier with no thinking or guessing involved, it would just be extremely boring.

It is a manager game after all, you're supposed to have to think and make smart choices about training, finances, tactics, etc. and it should be challenging enough to keep the interest up.

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darkline wrote:
The scout is extremely easy to use and gives tons of information, I'm just giving you a tip about how to use it. If it was any easier with no thinking or guessing involved, it would just be extremely boring.

It is a manager game after all, you're supposed to have to think and make smart choices about training, finances, tactics, etc. and it should be challenging enough to keep the interest up.


I just addressed this in my earlier comments. All aspects of the game don't need to be complicated. Just making one aspect of the game simple won't make the whole game boring my friend.

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
He should be a 10 ball keeper if you train him as a keeper.


thanks for the answer, but the doubt remains. Why, when i had taken the player, the scout didn't say me keeping in the three skills suggested?

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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Aha so the new youth are slightly worse on average, that’s great! If crew finds a good lower level for average youth players then that is one of the best updates ever and this new feature will be all good. It looks great as well! I am going to check my youth players out now. I had to check the forum first :) Well done Powdersnow and the crew!

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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Question 2: How is the youth training speed stars are calculated? I have a player (207996360) who trains roughly 30% slower than regular youths of same age (1000 compared to 1500) and yet he has 3 Stars in training speed. Is this because of randomness in while training?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
jackmomo wrote:
thanks for the answer, but the doubt remains. Why, when i had taken the player, the scout didn't say me keeping in the three skills suggested?


Because the previous YTC was inaccurate and would pick a position based on a formula and not just skills, so maybe the combination of skills based on that formula said that your player is better suited as a striker, which is really not true if he can be a 10 GK... and that's why this new scouting system was implemented to replace the old one.

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

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jackmomo wrote:
thanks for the answer, but the doubt remains. Why, when i had taken the player, the scout didn't say me keeping in the three skills suggested?


Because the old system works differently?
He might reach 10 ball control, 9 shooting, 10 keeping but only 5 crossing and 5 set plays. In the overall score he might be a better striker or it could have been a 50/50 striker/keeper.
The good thing is the current youths have 2 reports to go by!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Yes in response to romanasu it does seem odd to have 7 as a lower potential 2 star. The ranges must be vast about what each star represents .

Based on everything it would appear your player will be 7 minimum in all skills. If not then something wrong

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
reteip wrote:
Because the old system works differently?
He might reach 10 ball control, 9 shooting, 10 keeping but only 5 crossing and 5 set plays. In the overall score he might be a better striker or it could have been a 50/50 striker/keeper.
The good thing is the current youths have 2 reports to go by!


The new scout gave him 1 star speed, so unless you already wasted too much time training irrelevant skills, I'd go for keeper really as he's a guaranteed 10... but it's true, he could still be a slow but good striker that might be useful if he also develop good stamina & heading.

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If a two star can be a 9 then even low potential speed stamina might be worth investing if he trains quick . I guess we’ll all have to catalogue it ourselves to build up a clearer picture lol

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Sorry I meant odd to have 9 balls as a two star . Not 7 balls as a two star

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
Because the previous YTC was inaccurate and would pick a position based on a formula and not just skills, so maybe the combination of skills based on that formula said that your player is better suited as a striker, which is really not true if he can be a 10 GK... and that's why this new scouting system was implemented to replace the old one.


Right. Now t's more clear!!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
I have an odd one



And this scout report



So as a guess, I'll say it goes by average.... let's say

4 stars = 10 balls
3 stars = 9 balls
2 stars = 8 balls
1 star = 7 balls

My guy has his top skills at 9+7=16 , 16/2= 8 , 8 = 2 stars

Now the low balls might be on a different grading system, could mean:

4 stars = 8+
3 stars = 7
2 stars = 6
1 star = 5 or less

Just a guess btw

therefore 2 balls on low skills might mean a maxing of 5/6

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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I dont think the training speed is accurate. How can he have 2 stars on training speed when he is a fast trainer? Not even sent to a training camp yet.
Thomas Jonsson

Age: 25

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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I have a question. The lowest 2 stars skills tackling and ball control does it mean max 4,5,6,7,8 so what? What are the highest and lowest limits for 2 stars?

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
I have an odd one



And this scout report



So as a guess, I'll say it goes by average.... let's say

4 stars = 10 balls
3 stars = 9 balls
2 stars = 8 balls
1 star = 7 balls

My guy has his top skills at 9+7=16 , 16/2= 8 , 8 = 2 stars

Now the low balls might be on a different grading system, could mean:

4 stars = 8+
3 stars = 7
2 stars = 6
1 star = 5 or less

Just a guess btw

therefore 2 balls on low skills might mean a maxing of 5/6


According to the information you've shared, it will show two stars if all abilities are 8???
if thats true, that is very absurd. i dont like that

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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One of my players who was 4 star maxed at 9.

Bekir İlteber

Age: 25


Highest Potential 4 Stars: Power & Puck Control

Known Facts so far:
4 Star does NOT mean guaranteed 10
2 Star can reach 9
2 Star can max at 5

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Yes definitely a big range

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:

So as a guess, I'll say it goes by average.... let's say

Seems a bit high if those were the values. Also this kiddo would average a 8.5 and is still only a 2*. Got to get him to BC next to see where that goes...
Lari Brunila

Age: 25

SpeedSpSpeed: 8(8)
StaminaStStamina: 7(7)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 3(3)
PassingPaPassing: 4(4)
ShootingShShooting: 1(1)
HeadingHeHeading: 1(1)
KeepingKeKeeping: 3(3)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 7(7)
TacklingTaTackling: 9(9)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 7(7)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 2(2)
ExperienceExExperience: 6(6)
FormFoForm: 0(0)
Total Skill Balls    52



I'd say there's a bit of deviation in the star system. Like if the average of the top two (or three or something else?) is 8, then you've got 80% chance for 3* and 10% for 2* and 4* each.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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as mentioned just now a two star in the highest potential might be generally more balls then a two star in the low potential

Ang: Youth Potential Tool

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@mata91

In that case he should max at 5-7 in Ball Control/play intelligence and the rest should hit 7 average in the way i understand the system.

I do not particularly like the system. It seems like one big mess and i guess that is what they where aiming for after alle the critique of potential star players.

You would need a 4 high 3 low to be somewhat sure of a star player and the rest will leave you in the dark when it comes to potential overall stats.

The system can be used to spot possible positions early on nothing more. It is only a guide that will reveal a possible postion. The player you have shown here will at max be a decent defender.

He will nok reach 8 in Technique and is therefore not able to play midfield. He could reach 8 in stamina, but is most likely to reach 7.

I bet that the lowest at max will reach 7.


If i am wrong the system is simply fucked :D.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Like I said, it will take time to fully understand the new system.

One question: Does it work on mobiles?
I press the lightning and nothing happens.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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mihairo wrote:
Like I said, it will take time to fully understand the new system.

One question: Does it work on mobiles?
I press the lightning and nothing happens.


Yes, it works on mobiles. Try a different browser.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
mata91 wrote:
Seems a bit high if those were the values. Also this kiddo would average a 8.5 and is still only a 2*. Got to get him to BC next to see where that goes...


It seems an 8.5 averages to 2 stars, at least that seems to be the case with the players I have and I kept a bunch of maxed ones due to U18 competitions so I have some maxed players to try to draw some conclusions.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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My Prediction with data so far is:

4 Star > 9.4
3 Star > 8.5
2 Star > 6.5
Rest 1 star.

It takes the average of 2 or 3 stats. Note that the sign is greater than (not equal and greater than) so average of 8.5 gives 2 stars. Let's see and try to make those boundaries more precise.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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7/23 with 4 stars here

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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So the impression I'm getting is YTC was a general guide of skills/position that the player was suited for but yet the new scout report is indicating that he's a different position altogether.

So I'm assuming that everything the scout report states is gospel in regards to training including if they say drop him?
 
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