Football » English » ManagerZone talk

Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 12-06-2019 12:07

[FLUSA]
President

Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit. So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper: [img]https://snag.gy/03nShj.jpg[/img] And I got this scout report for him [img]https://snag.gy/YVhgST.jpg[/img] So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"? I really like that we can check out current youths btw.Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.

Previous

Page 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

 

Reply

Last Message

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 07-02-2022 04:15

[-FO-]

1LP starts with few chances, but I saw 4HP 1LP players worth 20 mil. on the Market. Of course, they are NT Players now. 1LP doesn't offer high expectations, but sometimes, in rare cases, you can discover exceptional players. That is what scouting is all about. Good luck & enjoy!1LP starts with few chances, but I saw 4HP 1LP players worth 20 mil. on the Market. Of course, they are NT Players now.
1LP doesn't offer high expectations, but sometimes, in rare cases, you can discover exceptional players.
That is what scouting is all about.

Good luck & enjoy!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By charlesbee (NC) - 04-04-2022 04:10

[France]

I do not want to read everything that's been written here but early 2020 when I came back I analysed quickly and found this hypothesis with no counterexample: Average (or equivalently Sum) of the highest 6 skills defines HP stars. Average of lowest 5 defines LP stars. LP 2*>6 and is <=7 HP 4*>9, HP 3*>8 HP 2*>7 LP 2*>6 LP 1*<=6 HP Stars = [(HPsum-1)/6]-5 Can anyone remember a mightbe counterexample of this setting in this thread ? Else I disagree totally with discarding LP 1* because you can very quickly find most of the 5 LP and deduce if a player. If a winger has 4* Sp+St+PI+BC+LB, and either passing or shooting or tackling as the 6th HP I would not say it is a bad move but at least +6M€ cash. Add the fact that LP 1* can be very often 46677 If the flops are keeping + free kick then you can find the 3 other LPs very fast before 21 or 23. He is a simple 313*: [fpl=216235638] HP St, BC. LP Keeping, tackling. All conditions were met to try divination fast. Lots of balls, good training speec, a very low flop. Bad is then good because the odds of 7s as LP were greater. He was a gift by customization, age 17. Age 19 he was already 90% of being a U21-23 star. On the opposite you can find bugs in 422* sometimes much too late. 44688 is a valid LP 1* list in my theory.I do not want to read everything that's been written here but early 2020 when I came back I analysed quickly and found this hypothesis with no counterexample:

Average (or equivalently Sum) of the highest 6 skills defines HP stars. Average of lowest 5 defines LP stars. LP 2*>6 and is <=7

HP 4*>9,
HP 3*>8
HP 2*>7
LP 2*>6
LP 1*<=6

HP Stars = [(HPsum-1)/6]-5

Can anyone remember a mightbe counterexample of this setting in this thread ?

Else I disagree totally with discarding LP 1* because you can very quickly find most of the 5 LP and deduce if a player.

If a winger has 4* Sp+St+PI+BC+LB, and either passing or shooting or tackling as the 6th HP I would not say it is a bad move but at least +6M€ cash.

Add the fact that LP 1* can be very often 46677

If the flops are keeping + free kick then you can find the 3 other LPs very fast before 21 or 23.

He is a simple 313*:

Abraham Beauval

Age: 31

SpeedSp					(7)
StaminaSt					(8)
Play IntelligencePI					(8)
PassingPa					(8)
ShootingSh					(9)
HeadingHe					(9)
KeepingKe					(2)
Ball ControlBC					(9)
TacklingTa					(5)
Aerial PassingAP					(9)
Set PlaysSP					(8)
ExperienceEx					(10)
FormFo					(9)
Total Skill Balls					82

HP St, BC.
LP Keeping, tackling.

All conditions were met to try divination fast. Lots of balls, good training speec, a very low flop. Bad is then good because the odds of 7s as LP were greater. He was a gift by customization, age 17.

Age 19 he was already 90% of being a U21-23 star. On the opposite you can find bugs in 422* sometimes much too late.

44688 is a valid LP 1* list in my theory.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By charlesbee (NC) - 04-04-2022 04:17

[France]

Errata: ...and deduce if a player [i]has a valuable future either U21 U23 or senior.[/i] Age 19 he was already 90% [i]certain[/i] of being a [i]great[/i] U21-23.Errata:
...and deduce if a player has a valuable future either U21 U23 or senior.

Age 19 he was already 90% certain of being a great U21-23.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By charlesbee (NC) - 04-04-2022 05:04

[France]

To be more fair, formation center customization can greatly change the risk equations for 313* or 314* players with many balls. Else I would only take high risks for wingers or defenders who only need 4 or 5 good skills to be efficient, at least in U21-23. In the case of Beauval I knew about Sp+St+tackling already (early 18!). I rushed in shooting 8+, then heading 7+ (if LP1* around 5 or 6 I had time left for passing). Then at 19-21 I knew he was PI5+ then PI6+. It was easy because he started with 3.8. So I could risk to spend chips on him because I get cup incomes in U21-U23. He is a special case but as I supposed my theory is valid I could compute risks very precisely. Each time my risk/benefits balance was asserted. Since ball control was a certain 9 or 10 it was maxed late around 21. If my theory is valid, even if this future is not probable at all, the best 313* configuration remains possible; [img]http://mzimage.com/image.php?lang=fr&design=1:::::&player=Abraham:Beauval:216235638:26+313+*Ti+Tq++ga+ta:fr:&atts=8m:9m:9m:9m:9m:9m:4m:9m:5m:7m:5m:10m:9&mzv=true[/img] This is a valid 313*! HP 999999 average 9 LP 45678 average 6 All in all what I mean is a 313* or 314* can be great in certain conditions. This must be judged per individual and by timing, schedule opportunities.To be more fair, formation center customization can greatly change the risk equations for 313* or 314* players with many balls.

Else I would only take high risks for wingers or defenders who only need 4 or 5 good skills to be efficient, at least in U21-23.

In the case of Beauval I knew about Sp+St+tackling already (early 18!). I rushed in shooting 8+, then heading 7+ (if LP1* around 5 or 6 I had time left for passing).

Then at 19-21 I knew he was PI5+ then PI6+.
It was easy because he started with 3.8. So I could risk to spend chips on him because I get cup incomes in U21-U23.

He is a special case but as I supposed my theory is valid I could compute risks very precisely. Each time my risk/benefits balance was asserted.

Since ball control was a certain 9 or 10 it was maxed late around 21.

If my theory is valid, even if this future is not probable at all, the best 313* configuration remains possible;


This is a valid 313*!
HP 999999 average 9
LP 45678 average 6

All in all what I mean is a 313* or 314* can be great in certain conditions. This must be judged per individual and by timing, schedule opportunities.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By douglaskampl - 04-04-2022 06:30

[BRAU18]
President

[img]https://i.imgur.com/dpKXejj.png[/img] This player is 3* HP Desarme/Controle de… and 2* LP Resistência/Passe Longo. Which means he will hit at least 8 Defesa and 8 Bola Parada. The average sum of the 5 worst attributes, in this case, is > 7 (and thus not <= 7). So, it depends?

This player is 3* HP Desarme/Controle de… and 2* LP Resistência/Passe Longo. Which means he will hit at least 8 Defesa and 8 Bola Parada.

The average sum of the 5 worst attributes, in this case, is > 7 (and thus not <= 7).

So, it depends?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By charlesbee (NC) - 05-04-2022 05:42

[France]

No it does not depend. In my first analyses 2020 I had 2 main hypotheses, either the algorithm is 100% determinist or it adds noise. If there is noise it will much harder to tell and do reverse engineering. So I rejected it in practice. If it is 100% determinist then any counter-example MUST modify the parameters. [b]So thanks for this sample that I never saw one like this before.[/b] (I do not often buy over 23 foreigners) So the rule "average LP <=7" which was a conjecture by likeness is broken. Then you have 2 hypotheses. - Either the flops are not always the 2 worst LPs. (I do not believe it, and the crew was clear here) - Either there is no other limit in the 2* LPs than the 6th lowest HP. This very uncommon player should be a 3*3* but certainly they clamped the formula to 2* LPs at max. Else a player like: (888888)(88888) would be a 2*3* and everyone would have understood the system very quickly. [b]Do you have examples that break the average HP boundaries ?[/b] There is no big surprise to me in fact because we never see 3* LP. So even if very rare (combination of rare skill values because their distribution is not flat) there are so many players in the game that we have to see players like this one. Conclusion: they simply clamp LP stars to 2*. LP 3*, 4* or 5* never exist. If the average to stars formula was homogenous then a all 10 or 9 skills player would be 4*5* LPs are the special case where the intervals are not 1 ball wide. This was already the case for LP1* BTW since they can range between 4 and 6. I am not really surprised, it's even more consistant like this.

douglaskampl wrote:

This player is 3* HP Desarme/Controle de… and 2* LP Resistência/Passe Longo. Which means he will hit at least 8 Defesa and 8 Bola Parada.

The average sum of the 5 worst attributes, in this case, is > 7 (and thus not <= 7).

So, it depends?

No it does not depend. In my first analyses 2020 I had 2 main hypotheses, either the algorithm is 100% determinist or it adds noise. If there is noise it will much harder to tell and do reverse engineering. So I rejected it in practice.

If it is 100% determinist then any counter-example MUST modify the parameters. So thanks for this sample that I never saw one like this before. (I do not often buy over 23 foreigners)

So the rule "average LP <=7" which was a conjecture by likeness is broken. Then you have 2 hypotheses.

- Either the flops are not always the 2 worst LPs. (I do not believe it, and the crew was clear here)

- Either there is no other limit in the 2* LPs than the 6th lowest HP.

This very uncommon player should be a 3*3* but certainly they clamped the formula to 2* LPs at max. Else a player like:
(888888)(88888) would be a 2*3* and everyone would have understood the system very quickly.

Do you have examples that break the average HP boundaries ?

There is no big surprise to me in fact because we never see 3* LP. So even if very rare (combination of rare skill values because their distribution is not flat) there are so many players in the game that we have to see players like this one.

Conclusion: they simply clamp LP stars to 2*. LP 3*, 4* or 5* never exist. If the average to stars formula was homogenous then a all 10 or 9 skills player would be 4*5*

LPs are the special case where the intervals are not 1 ball wide.

This was already the case for LP1* BTW since they can range between 4 and 6. I am not really surprised, it's even more consistant like this.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By douglaskampl - 09-04-2022 17:35

[BRAU18]
President

The analysis is very good, it was a good read. Not really. All players I tried to test fit. At worst I found a HP4 player HP Stars = [(HPsum-1)/6]-5 = 3.5, which is 4 rounded up anyway.The analysis is very good, it was a good read.

charlesbee wrote:

Do you have examples that break the average HP boundaries ?

Not really. All players I tried to test fit. At worst I found a HP4 player HP Stars = [(HPsum-1)/6]-5 = 3.5, which is 4 rounded up anyway.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By evosa - 22-04-2022 12:10

[LEGEND]

Just a question: How many players in your starting11 have 4 star HP? 8 players in my starting11 have 4 stars HP. 2 do not have those stars at all. And that 1 guy is 3/2 in my starting11 but I am searching his replacement!Just a question: How many players in your starting11 have 4 star HP?

8 players in my starting11 have 4 stars HP. 2 do not have those stars at all.

And that 1 guy is 3/2 in my starting11 but I am searching his replacement!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By k33n3y - 22-04-2022 13:42

None in my starting eleven but im training up a dozen or so. Half scouted and half bought.None in my starting eleven but im training up a dozen or so.

Half scouted and half bought.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By evosa - 22-04-2022 14:22

[LEGEND]

Heh. This is a marathon game - do not expect to reach to the top quickly. Just some examples from me - I rejoined the game in July 2015 without having any real or serious experience before. My first trophy is U18 - National Cup Estonia - Season 62 with a finish date 15-06-2017 after nearly [u]2 years of playing [/u]. My first senior trophy is Division Cup Season 63 - Estonia Top-league-Div 3 with a finish date of 07-10-2017. My first league trophy came is season 67 U18 top league(estimately around 3 years of playing). Then there were some U21 and U23 trophies and couple of seasons a go I started to focus on senior team and my first and so far only senior league title came on season 81. When I rejoined the game it was season 55. After 26 seasons of playing! After nearly 7(6,5 years to be exact – 4 seasons per calendar year, so 26/4=6,5 years) years of playing consistently. So..it proves that patience is key in ManagerZone. Give it a time and you'll have great team one day of 4 HP players! [:)]

k33n3y wrote:

None in my starting eleven but im training up a dozen or so.

Half scouted and half bought.

Heh. This is a marathon game - do not expect to reach to the top quickly.

Just some examples from me - I rejoined the game in July 2015 without having any real or serious experience before. My first trophy is U18 - National Cup Estonia - Season 62 with a finish date 15-06-2017 after nearly 2 years of playing . My first senior trophy is Division Cup Season 63 - Estonia Top-league-Div 3 with a finish date of 07-10-2017.

My first league trophy came is season 67 U18 top league(estimately around 3 years of playing). Then there were some U21 and U23 trophies and couple of seasons a go I started to focus on senior team and my first and so far only senior league title came on season 81. When I rejoined the game it was season 55. After 26 seasons of playing! After nearly 7(6,5 years to be exact – 4 seasons per calendar year, so 26/4=6,5 years) years of playing consistently.

So..it proves that patience is key in ManagerZone. Give it a time and you'll have great team one day of 4 HP players!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 - 22-04-2022 14:53

[AUSNZ]
President

Only play U23 atm 7 4HP 4 3HP 2LP My main bench players are both 4HP too

evosa wrote:

Just a question: How many players in your starting11 have 4 star HP?

8 players in my starting11 have 4 stars HP. 2 do not have those stars at all.

And that 1 guy is 3/2 in my starting11 but I am searching his replacement!

Only play U23 atm
7 4HP
4 3HP 2LP

My main bench players are both 4HP too

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By k33n3y - 19-08-2022 01:19

Had to revisit this. I've got a 3Hp/2LP player. He is going to have at minimum 5 9s. Tack at 8. The 9s are in speed, stamina, PI, Pass and BC. I have a small hope either PI or stam will hit 10. Unlikely due to 3HP right, However my question is. Is this player world class? He's 23 and only has 5 exp at the moment. Does he need a couple of 10s to be classed as world class? Is this type of player normal for 3HP?Had to revisit this.

I've got a 3Hp/2LP player.

He is going to have at minimum 5 9s. Tack at 8. The 9s are in speed, stamina, PI, Pass and BC.

I have a small hope either PI or stam will hit 10. Unlikely due to 3HP right,

However my question is. Is this player world class? He's 23 and only has 5 exp at the moment.

Does he need a couple of 10s to be classed as world class? Is this type of player normal for 3HP?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 - 19-08-2022 01:21

[AUSNZ]
President

Are his 3HP skills PI and Stamina?

k33n3y wrote:

Had to revisit this.

I've got a 3Hp/2LP player.

He is going to have at minimum 5 9s. Tack at 8. The 9s are in speed, stamina, PI, Pass and BC.

I have a small hope either PI or stam will hit 10. Unlikely due to 3HP right,

However my question is. Is this player world class? He's 23 and only has 5 exp at the moment.

Does he need a couple of 10s to be classed as world class? Is this type of player normal for 3HP?

Are his 3HP skills PI and Stamina?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By k33n3y - 19-08-2022 01:33

Yes chucky. But with 5 9s already. He can't surely hit 10s in his HP skills with only 3 stars? That would be madness no?Yes chucky.

But with 5 9s already. He can't surely hit 10s in his HP skills with only 3 stars? That would be madness no?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 - 19-08-2022 01:38

[AUSNZ]
President

I think one can still at least be a 10. Without at least one 9 in tackling or shooting and preferably a 10 you can't call him world class.

k33n3y wrote:

Yes chucky.

But with 5 9s already. He can't surely hit 10s in his HP skills with only 3 stars? That would be madness no?

I think one can still at least be a 10. Without at least one 9 in tackling or shooting and preferably a 10 you can't call him world class.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By k33n3y - 19-08-2022 01:41

That's fairs. Based on valuations of older players. I believe this player has potential to over 1m in valuation. Top player in England is 1.05m and he has 5 9s. 2 7s in speed and stam that will have been 9s. I'm being slightly pessimistic but I'm loving how he'll turn out. 89k he cost me. What a result.That's fairs.

Based on valuations of older players. I believe this player has potential to over 1m in valuation. Top player in England is 1.05m and he has 5 9s. 2 7s in speed and stam that will have been 9s.

I'm being slightly pessimistic but I'm loving how he'll turn out. 89k he cost me.

What a result.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By k33n3y - 19-08-2022 01:44

Also his heading and shooting aren't his LP skills neither. So pray for him to hit 8s or 9s in those.Also his heading and shooting aren't his LP skills neither.

So pray for him to hit 8s or 9s in those.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 - 19-08-2022 01:44

[AUSNZ]
President

Don't get me wrong he will still be a great player but hes not a defender with only 8 tackling, hes not a striker with 8 shooting and you'd really llike you midfielders to even have 9 tackling at least so he wouldn't really like up anywhere in a world class team.Don't get me wrong he will still be a great player but hes not a defender with only 8 tackling, hes not a striker with 8 shooting and you'd really llike you midfielders to even have 9 tackling at least so he wouldn't really like up anywhere in a world class team.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By k33n3y - 19-08-2022 01:51

Money ball for me chucky. Plan is to have a plethora of skills over 8s. Majority 9s of course. Few 10s thrown in. My Hope is once these are trained and have full exp. I can make short passing work in the prem here. Long way to go. 2 years in the game now.Money ball for me chucky.

Plan is to have a plethora of skills over 8s. Majority 9s of course. Few 10s thrown in. My Hope is once these are trained and have full exp. I can make short passing work in the prem here.

Long way to go. 2 years in the game now.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 - 19-08-2022 02:23

[AUSNZ]
President

In your domestic top league which is no better quality than our here he will be top shelf

k33n3y wrote:

Money ball for me chucky.

Plan is to have a plethora of skills over 8s. Majority 9s of course. Few 10s thrown in. My Hope is once these are trained and have full exp. I can make short passing work in the prem here.

Long way to go. 2 years in the game now.

In your domestic top league which is no better quality than our here he will be top shelf

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By sbrownridge - 02-09-2022 19:20

[Canada]

How did you get the HP/LP report to show? Is that a browser add-on or did you edit the snapshot?

sabiutza wrote:

[hockey]



Is this 2 LP?
It must be a joke!
I wonder how many players like this one went to the trash!
At the news it was said that we will have 3 LP players!😖

How did you get the HP/LP report to show? Is that a browser add-on or did you edit the snapshot?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By jere92 - 02-09-2022 21:50

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12475864&forum_id=10&sport=soccer It is browser add onhttps://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12475864&forum_id=10&sport=soccer

It is browser add on

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By lucasgatomestre - 09-02-2024 02:21

[FIQ]

My Player H3 [img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dt_psHEiodXBpmunJIxxKBalSWryBuex/view?usp=drivesdk[/img]My Player H3

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By lucasgatomestre - 09-02-2024 02:22

[FIQ]

[fpl=219254945]

lucasgatomestre wrote:

My Player H3

Kevyn De Bruyne

Age: 25

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By charlesbee (NC) - 09-02-2024 05:03

[France]

LPs have no max limit. 2* LP just mean the 5 worst skills total at least 5*6+1 balls (in 99% of the cases I saw). But the LPs can be 5*10 balls, then your player has 10 everywhere. ROFL 110 balls, this is in theory, in practice this will never happen in the whole universe life ;) Your player follows the rules.

sbrownridge wrote:

How did you get the HP/LP report to show? Is that a browser add-on or did you edit the snapshot?

LPs have no max limit.

2* LP just mean the 5 worst skills total at least 5*6+1 balls (in 99% of the cases I saw). But the LPs can be 5*10 balls, then your player has 10 everywhere. ROFL

110 balls, this is in theory, in practice this will never happen in the whole universe life ;)

Your player follows the rules.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By charlesbee (NC) - 09-02-2024 05:07

[France]

^^^ In such a case then rush as soon as U16-17 to test the max of one of the flops. If it is 9 or even 8, you are very lucky, then you have 100% odds of a monster. Your U18 TCs were for free, and next you will invest in more TCs without any risk.^^^ In such a case then rush as soon as U16-17 to test the max of one of the flops. If it is 9 or even 8, you are very lucky, then you have 100% odds of a monster.

Your U18 TCs were for free, and next you will invest in more TCs without any risk.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By charlesbee (NC) - 09-02-2024 05:09

[France]

Even a 324* could have one 10 and all 9 else.Even a 324* could have one 10 and all 9 else.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By charlesbee (NC) - 09-02-2024 05:13

[France]

No all 9 sorry, no 10 in this case the max total of 6 3* HPs is 6*9. 6*9+1 is the start of 4*. I had a 313* player header of France NT, 8 or 9 everywhere needed (stamina, heading, shooting, ball control, 8 else) and even long ball and free kick were 9.No all 9 sorry, no 10 in this case the max total of 6 3* HPs is 6*9. 6*9+1 is the start of 4*.

I had a 313* player header of France NT, 8 or 9 everywhere needed (stamina, heading, shooting, ball control, 8 else) and even long ball and free kick were 9.

Previous

Page 10 11 12 13 14 15 16