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20-06-2021 20:29
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Season 78 · Week 11 · Day 76
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Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.
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Re: Youth Potential Tool

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what you think about this player
if taking 10 balls
stamina and Play Intelligence should be 10 balls?
Edited: 17-02-2020 22:37
Total edits: 1

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
I just fixed your image, I see that a skill has 9 but I don't know if it's maxed or unmaxed, if that skill is maxed then stamina/PI could be 9 or 10, if the skill is unmaxed then you have a guaranteed 10/10 on stamina/pi..

So the skill with 9, is unmaxed or maxed?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
I just fixed your image, I see that a skill has 9 but I don't know if it's maxed or unmaxed, if that skill is maxed then stamina/PI could be 9 or 10, if the skill is unmaxed then you have a guaranteed 10/10 on stamina/pi..

Unmaxed

So the skill with 9, is unmaxed or maxed?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Unmaxed sry
I say tacking 10

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
yakirsha wrote:
Unmaxed sry
I say tacking 10


If tackling will reach 10, that means PI/Stamina is guaranteed to also reach 10.

Edited: 18-02-2020 03:15
Total edits: 1

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Myles Kile

Age: 24

SpeedSpSpeed: 7(7)
StaminaStStamina: 8(8)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 8(8)
PassingPaPassing: 5(5)
ShootingShShooting: 1(1)
HeadingHeHeading: 4(4)
KeepingKeKeeping: 10(10)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 6(6)
TacklingTaTackling: 2(2)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 10(10)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 4(4)
ExperienceExExperience: 8(8)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    65


This kid is now the fastest training keeper and probably the fastest training overall player I've ever personally had in over 10 years of playing the game.

He may not reach 60 plus balls by age 21 due to being a keeper and having to train Keeping and now PI a lot in the next 2-3 season, but he is tracking to be a superstar.

He just got his 10th keeping ball 11 days after his 9th (all at TC, but still I've never seen that before)

There are likely a few goalkeepers of his current generation similar to him, but this is a new level of player development thanks to this tool

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
scruttino wrote:
Myles Kile

Age: 24

SpeedSpSpeed: 7(7)
StaminaStStamina: 8(8)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 8(8)
PassingPaPassing: 5(5)
ShootingShShooting: 1(1)
HeadingHeHeading: 4(4)
KeepingKeKeeping: 10(10)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 6(6)
TacklingTaTackling: 2(2)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 10(10)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 4(4)
ExperienceExExperience: 8(8)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    65


This kid is now the fastest training keeper and probably the fastest training overall player I've ever personally had in over 10 years of playing the game.

He may not reach 60 plus balls by age 21 due to being a keeper and having to train Keeping and now PI a lot in the next 2-3 season, but he is tracking to be a superstar.

He just got his 10th keeping ball 11 days after his 9th (all at TC, but still I've never seen that before)

There are likely a few goalkeepers of his current generation similar to him, but this is a new level of player development thanks to this tool


Yeh wow, that is fast. My current keeper had 54 balls at 21 and I thought that was huge.

Igor Dabrowski

Age: 32

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

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yakirsha wrote:


what you think about this player
if taking 10 balls
stamina and Play Intelligence should be 10 balls?


I'd like to see this guy's training graph.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Me too.
It's strange to see 10 10 10 on 3HP.

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

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mihairo wrote:
Me too.
It's strange to see 10 10 10 on 3HP.


Even more rare when he has another 8 in speed. That makes it 38/40 and that looks more like a HP ⭐⭐⭐⭐.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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He won't have 10 takcling guys so 9+9+9+8 or 9+9+9+9 is max.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
kostrzak16 wrote:
He won't have 10 takcling guys so 9+9+9+8 or 9+9+9+9 is max.


Well, the owner of the player said he has 9 unmaxed tackling... if that's correct or not I don't know.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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I asked him yesterday :P he is maxed

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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mwosle wrote:
Even more rare when he has another 8 in speed. That makes it 38/40 and that looks more like a HP ⭐⭐⭐⭐.


This supports the growing body evidence that not every scout report is correct

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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maxed i cant edit sry

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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kostrzak16 wrote:
He won't have 10 takcling guys so 9+9+9+8 or 9+9+9+9 is max.


I think that an option is also 10-9-9-8 isn't it?

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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Yes, it is possibile.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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I have a question regarding youth potential tool. Do you know if the order of the skills has any meaning or is it completely random?

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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It is random. You don't know which of 2 skills will have more balls.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

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What do you think about new young players? I think I'm not lucky nowadays. Indeed I couldn't have good enough players. I'm start thinking not have youngers anymore..

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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How many balls can a player with 3 HP have at his most strong four skills maximum?
Is it 36? (10-9-9-8 or 9-9-9-9)
Has any of you ever seen 37 balls?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
unbeatenteam wrote:
How many balls can a player with 3 HP have at his most strong four skills maximum?
Is it 36? (10-9-9-8 or 9-9-9-9)


This one on the market is a guaranteed 9-9-9-9 https://www.managerzone.com/?p=players&pid=208039480&tid=295060 , could also be a 9-9-9-10 but won't know until aerial passing is maxed out

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
This one on the market is a guaranteed 9-9-9-9 https://www.managerzone.com/?p=players&pid=208039480&tid=295060 , could also be a 9-9-9-10 but won't know until aerial passing is maxed out


Which would mean he isn’t a 3HP player, he really should have been scouted as a 4HP player

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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He is a 3HP player with 4 nines.
He could have been a 4HP player with cross 10 or 5 nines.
Cross will max at 9 and all the other skills will be at 8 the most.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
I think we'll need a few more seasons until we start seeing fully maxed players on the market until we can confirm or reject any theories.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I've already seen a 4HP 9 9 player. This means at least 5 nines to be a 4HP.
This also means that 3HP can't reach 5 nines.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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mihairo wrote:
I've already seen a 4HP 9 9 player. This means at least 5 nines to be a 4HP.
This also means that 3HP can't reach 5 nines.


Are you completlely sure about this?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
mihairo wrote:
I've already seen a 4HP 9 9 player. This means at least 5 nines to be a 4HP.


That is only true IF the scout is an exact science, but if the scout is not a 100% accurate you might have a 3HP with 5 nines, that you haven't seen one yet doesn't exclude the possibility....

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Has anyone gotten a 3HP/1LP with 4-5 9's ?

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moroh2o wrote:
Are you completlely sure about this?


About seeing a 4HP 9 9? Absolutely. Seen it with my own eyes on the TM. No doubt about it.
Also I've seen 4 nines on 3HP.
So, 5 nines on 4HP could be the only conclusion.
And the other conclusion could be that 3HP can't reach 5 nines.

So far my numbers are accurate.

4HP maximum
Obviously 5 tens

4HP minimum
9 9 9 9 9
10 9 9 9 8
10 10 9 8 8

3HP maximum
9 9 9 9 8
10 9 9 8 8
10 10 8 8 8

3HP minimum
9 9 7 7 7
10 8 7 7 7

2HP maximum
9 8 8 8 8
10 7 7 7 7

2HP minimum
8 8 7 7 7
9 7 7 7 7

2LP maximum
5 8 8 8 8 - already have one in my hockey squad. We'll see if he reaches 2LP 6 8. I'll let you know

2LP minimum
5 6 6 6 8
4 7 7 7 8

1LP maximum
5 6 6 6 7
4 6 7 7 8

1LP minimum
Obviosulsy 5 fours.

If you see something outside these numbers, please share.

Thank you.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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There is still one question remaining about LP 4 7 7 7 7.
I haven't seen a case. So I'm guessing it's a case of lowest 2LP. But it can also be the highest 1LP.
This is a case I'm searching for.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I also haven't seen a case of LP 4 6 8 8 8.
My guess is that it's a 2LP.

Also a case of 4 5 8 8 8.
In this case I think it's a 1LP.

Time will tell.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Oh and last cases...

HP 10 10 9 8 7 7
It could be 3HP, if it's not a case of lowest 4HP.

Also HP 10 10 10 7 7.
I know it's a big stretch, but it could be the only case of 3 tens on 3HP.
Or it could be the worst 4HP possible.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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Ok but can you show a screenshot or id of that player with 4x9 and 4HP ? It has been 2 seasons and you are the first who found such player so we want a proof :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I said he was on the Transfer Market. So the player was available for anyone interested to see.
I didn't post to argue. You can take it or leave it.
Seeing people like you, makes me wonder why I even bother...

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Let's put it another way.
I gave you the numbers.
It's black and white.
Proof me wrong.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
mihairo wrote:
I said he was on the Transfer Market. So the player was available for anyone interested to see.
I didn't post to argue. You can take it or leave it.
Seeing people like you, makes me wonder why I even bother...


I trust you, if you said you seen it on the market I believe you :) , I'm sure in a few more seasons with more players almost fully trained we'll be able to confirm or disprove all theories but this numbers so far proved to be right, so they're good to work with.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Thank you and good luck.

If you see anything outside these numbers please share.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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mihairo wrote:
You can take it or leave it.
Seeing people like you, makes me wonder why I even bother...


I won't take it until I see the proof. If I tell you that I've seen 3 HP player with 5x9 will you change your numbers :) ? Not sure why are you mad at me.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
kostrzak16 wrote:
I won't take it until I see the proof. If I tell you that I've seen 3 HP player with 5x9 will you change your numbers :) ? Not sure why are you mad at me.


Think it like this, why would anyone trying to get accurate data & sharing his findings with everyone will add inaccurate or misleading data?

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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I doubt he would do this on purpose (why would he?). I can rather believe he just didn't verify that player thoroughly. Just like the guy few posts before who said he has 3 HP player with 3x10. Also if he uses that popular extension for highlighting maxings, it has a bug when it sometimes doesn't show a new ball if player recieved it the same day. I think there is nothing wrong on asking for proof.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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kostrzak16 wrote:
I won't take it until I see the proof. If I tell you that I've seen 3 HP player with 5x9 will you change your numbers :) ? Not sure why are you mad at me.


It's obviously not for you mate. It's for those who are interested in the topic.
I'm not mad at you. If you say you saw something, I can take it as it is or disregard it whatsoever.

For e.g. we had a case of 1LP 4 6 and the owner said that the second skill was unmaxed. No graph.
So far, I couldn't see a 1LP 4 7. I'm not saying he lied. Either he thought it was unmaxed or he really was. So the question remains.

But the case of 4HP 9 9 was clear as day with graph and TA visible for us to see.
You can take it or disregard it.

I think I was more than polite.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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I am more interested in the topic than most of people here, thats why I asked. I believe you, we just need an ID or screenshot of similar player to conpletely confirm that scout report is based on more than 4 skills. I will look for 5x9 3HP player and link it to you if I find such :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I didn't save the player. I will look for him.
So far we know that 4HP can be 9 9 and 3HP can reach 4 nines.
That we know.
We'll see if 3HP can reach 5 nines.
It would be weird to see that, but I don't exclude the possibility.
If that's the case it would mean that 4HP should reach 6 nines to make the difference.
Like I said, I'm looking for players outside the numbers.
I haven't seen quite all the possibilities.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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id: 207689641. 3 HP at least 4 nines. deadline: about 1 hour.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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mihairo wrote:
About seeing a 4HP 9 9? Absolutely. Seen it with my own eyes on the TM. No doubt about it.
Also I've seen 4 nines on 3HP.
So, 5 nines on 4HP could be the only conclusion.
And the other conclusion could be that 3HP can't reach 5 nines.

So far my numbers are accurate.

4HP maximum
Obviously 5 tens

4HP minimum
9 9 9 9 9
10 9 9 9 8
10 10 9 8 8

3HP maximum
9 9 9 9 8
10 9 9 8 8
10 10 8 8 8

3HP minimum
9 9 7 7 7
10 8 7 7 7

2HP maximum
9 8 8 8 8
10 7 7 7 7

2HP minimum
8 8 7 7 7
9 7 7 7 7

2LP maximum
5 8 8 8 8 - already have one in my hockey squad. We'll see if he reaches 2LP 6 8. I'll let you know

2LP minimum
5 6 6 6 8
4 7 7 7 8

1LP maximum
5 6 6 6 7
4 6 7 7 8

1LP minimum
Obviosulsy 5 fours.

If you see something outside these numbers, please share.

Thank you.


A few personal comments about these stats.

Firstly, has anyone seen a player with higher than 2LP. They must exist, even if they are extremely rare. Or is every player guaranteed to have a 5-6 skill even if it's keeping, or set plays which mean nothing for an outfield player? And as such are incapable of being awarded 3LP or 4LP by a scout.

Secondly, the difference between some of the higher achieving 3 HP players & the lower end of the 4 HP players seems extremely borderline. To the point where I'd argue that some 4HP player should actually be 3HP players and vice versa. Similarly the same problem applies between high 2LP & low 3HP. As well as, High 1HP & low 2HP.

I understand that you'd have to apply some criteria to act as a cut off point to differentiate between categories of classification. Throw in an element of 5-10% error to keep things vaguely interesting/unpredictable and you have the current system. Which is still a significant improvement on the old system.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I have no system. I'm very open minded. It's what I've seen so far.
There are some few cases that I haven't seen yet so they are not included in these numbers. But they are extreme cases which are very rare.
I'm still searching for them.

For e.g I haven't seen a 3LP. In theory they exist and they probably start from 8 8. I think the 3LP standard is too high and it should be lowered a bit.
The highest 2LP I've seen it's by chance in my hockey squad. He is at 8 maxed and 4 unmaxed. So a player with 5 8 is a 2LP. Meanwhile a player with 5 6 or 4 7 as its weakest skills is also a 2LP.
From my point of view 2LP has a certain randomness and I don't think it should be like that.
Some 2LPs are very strong and some of them are very weak, very similar to the strongest 1LP.
IMO the strongest 2LPs should have been rated as 3LP.
I've seen many skills rated as 2LP go upto 7.
Maybe 2LP 7 7 or 2LP 5 8 should have been rated as 3LP, because to expect to see a 3LP 8 8 has a chance less than 1%. It's like saying that 3LP only exists in theory.
As concerning 4LP, it doesn't exist. I believe we're talking about 4LP 9 9 which is impossible.
I think we can work with 3LP. It can separate good players from exceptional players.

For e.g. the highest rating we've seen so far is 4HP with 2LP.
But when you get a player with skills like 10 9 9 9 8 as HP and 5 6 6 7 8 as LP you count 77 pucks in hockey or 85 balls in football, which is not pit of the ordinary.
Let's take a strong 3HP with 2LP.
With a strong case you can expect to see 9 9 9 9 8 as HP and 6 6 7 7 8 as LP. That's 78 pucks in hockey and 86 balls in football, which is higher than 4HP with medium 2LP.

Let's take one of the strongest 2HP with 2LP I've seen so far.
2HP 9 8 8 8 8 with 2LP 7 7 8 8 8. That's 79 pucks in hockey and 87 balls in football, which is higher than a medium 4HP with 2LP.

Meanwhile let's take a medium case of 4HP with 1LP. In theory it should be better than 2HP 2LP, but the reality is that it's probably weaker.
4HP 10 9 9 9 8 with 1LP 4 5 6 7 8. That's 75 pucks in hockey and 83 balls in football.

What I'm saying is that I was hoping the TA should be more reliable. I'm not asking for exact science here. It's not the HPs that are confusing, but the LPs, which are just simply a lottery.

In conclusion, I always hated randomness. Even with TA you can always choose a weak player with strong TA or discard a strong player with weak TA. And this fact turns out to be frustrating for the users.

I'm not asking for much.
We have strong HP as 4HP, medium HP as 3HP and weak HP as 2HP.
We should be offered as LPs the same thing. Strong LP as 3LP, medium LP as 2LP and weak LP as 1LP.

I'm hoping for fairness, not randomness.
Also, I've written about these things in the past few seasons and I hope the Crew will eventually come to the same conclusions.
A few adjustments in the TA system shouldn't harm anyone.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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@mihairo

In real life there is randomness though. A star player is signed to a big contract and the club looks to dominate their league for several years, but the player picks up a career ending injury in training. (Glad we don’t have that built into this sim!)

I like the small randomness built into the scouting report having errors. I mean, I don’t love that it takes so many weeks to discover those errors, but u do like the planning, discarding a 3-2 player who maxed out badly but finding out a 2-2 player has some lucky maxings.

I would love it even more if the sim had built in a way that we could visually watch our players perform and make some of our own judgemnets as to their skills, kind of to see if our opinion was the same as the scout’s. Wishful thinking, I know.

Uuesti: Youth Potential Tool

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I agree with mihairo that we should have a system where there wouldn't only be 2 available options for LP. But I also like it if there is still some randomness in the system or overlap in possible outcomes between different levels. We don't want something that is too simple to figure out.

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

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This one was in the dutch forum.

albertusfc wrote:
Update over mijn bijzonder speler met een low potential op 8 ballen stamina.
HP TA/SP 4*
LP ST/setpl. 2*
TS 1 *

Na de verwachte (hij had al 7 ballen gehaald en een maxing op 8 bc) maxing op 8 stamina heb ik de speler getraind op tackelen. Gezien de HP 4* in combinatie met een LP van 8 op stamina ging ik ervan uit dat er minimaal 2 en wellicht 3 of 4 10-bal skills te verwachten waren.

Vanochtend heeft Bud 9 tackelen gehaald en bleek daarop gemaxed te zijn. 10 snelheid is nu een zekerheid. De overige skills op setplays na, zullen 8 op 9 ballen halen.

Bud Plugge

Age: 25

SpeedSpSpeed: 10(10)
StaminaStStamina: 8(8)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 4(4)
PassingPaPassing: 8(8)
ShootingShShooting: 0(0)
HeadingHeHeading: 2(2)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 8(8)
TacklingTaTackling: 9(9)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 2(2)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 2(2)
ExperienceExExperience: 8(8)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    54
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