Football » English » ManagerZone talk

Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 12-06-2019 12:07

[FLUSA]
President

Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit. So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper: [img]https://snag.gy/03nShj.jpg[/img] And I got this scout report for him [img]https://snag.gy/YVhgST.jpg[/img] So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"? I really like that we can check out current youths btw.Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.

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Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-11-2019 10:18

[-FO-]

Yes LP can be 4 in a 4 7 or 4 8 combination.

yokupoku wrote:

LP⭐⭐ can be 4

Augusto De Carolis

Age: 35

HP⭐⭐⭐ (green flag)
LP⭐⭐ (yellow flag)

Yes LP can be 4 in a 4 7 or 4 8 combination.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-11-2019 13:04

[-FO-]

*2LP. Try to use the yellow flags as HP.*2LP.
Try to use the yellow flags as HP.

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

By yokupoku (RA) - 02-11-2019 16:19

[FALCO]
President

😂 for a better luck?

mihairo wrote:

*2LP.
Try to use the yellow flags as HP.

😂 for a better luck?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-11-2019 18:11

[-FO-]

No. Since MZ was invented Yellow ment strong skills. I agree there was a discussion about what colour should we use when marking the LP skills. I'm using Red if maxed and Red+Green if LP skills are unmaxed.No.
Since MZ was invented Yellow ment strong skills.

I agree there was a discussion about what colour should we use when marking the LP skills.
I'm using Red if maxed and Red+Green if LP skills are unmaxed.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-11-2019 18:14

[-FO-]

[hpl=30169702] I used this player several times. Yellow is 3HP Red is 2LP. As you can see, it's more than obvious this way that 2LP power is maxed at 8 and 2LP control is not maxed at 2.

Nicu Lăzăroiu

Age: 37 (Retired)

I used this player several times.
Yellow is 3HP
Red is 2LP.
As you can see, it's more than obvious this way that 2LP power is maxed at 8 and 2LP control is not maxed at 2.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 02-11-2019 19:00

[FLUSA]
President

Everyone has their own system and do things their own way, if you like and understand your system then it's a good system for you 😀. I don't bother with color coding, I just use the extension that color codes everything for you.Everyone has their own system and do things their own way, if you like and understand your system then it's a good system for you 😀. I don't bother with color coding, I just use the extension that color codes everything for you.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-11-2019 19:27

[-FO-]

Yeah but I don't think that you share the TA when you share a player - the graph only shows you maxed and unmaxed skills. How would you do it?Yeah but I don't think that you share the TA when you share a player - the graph only shows you maxed and unmaxed skills.
How would you do it?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 02-11-2019 20:32

[FLUSA]
President

Not something I do very often, but most likely I'll use the "take a screenshot" function of firefox, go to https://paste.pics/ , press CTRL+V , copy the link and paste it, which is what I did when I created the thread..... like this: [img]https://i.paste.pics/2cee0c74fdfbe1dfad5d0311f75cf8cc.png[/img] It takes about the same time and I just prefer to do it like this, as when I share players sometimes I forget to unshare and keep sharing for longer that I would like..... I mean, like I said, everyone has their preferred way to do things and there's no right or wrong way.

mihairo wrote:

Yeah but I don't think that you share the TA when you share a player - the graph only shows you maxed and unmaxed skills.
How would you do it?

Not something I do very often, but most likely I'll use the "take a screenshot" function of firefox, go to https://paste.pics/ , press CTRL+V , copy the link and paste it, which is what I did when I created the thread..... like this:



It takes about the same time and I just prefer to do it like this, as when I share players sometimes I forget to unshare and keep sharing for longer that I would like..... I mean, like I said, everyone has their preferred way to do things and there's no right or wrong way.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-11-2019 20:47

[-FO-]

Thank you Adrian. Good luck with the player!Thank you Adrian.
Good luck with the player!

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By thendric - 04-11-2019 18:59

[DISCLL]

@engerek01: wish we had you on the Belgian community. No chance you would translate your main insights in English?@engerek01: wish we had you on the Belgian community. No chance you would translate your main insights in English?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By masterkike - 13-12-2019 20:29

[FCMZ]

I think the market with this system is dead. Why the market don't open for everyone? Sweden, Poland and other contries there are a lot of players.. in Spain only 5-6 players in the market..I think the market with this system is dead.

Why the market don't open for everyone?

Sweden, Poland and other contries there are a lot of players.. in Spain only 5-6 players in the market..

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By speedylfc - 13-12-2019 21:06

[UPSG]

You're right, now transfer market is completly different. A lot of players have exaggerataed prices... It's really hard to buy good player for decent money. Everyone thinking that have a "golden boy" and want a lot of money.You're right, now transfer market is completly different. A lot of players have exaggerataed prices... It's really hard to buy good player for decent money. Everyone thinking that have a "golden boy" and want a lot of money.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

By manekaster - 13-12-2019 23:24

[TDF]
President

In the same way it makes it easier for yourself to get a decent amount of money for your own wonderboy.In the same way it makes it easier for yourself to get a decent amount of money for your own wonderboy.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 07:24

[AUSNZ]

I thought I'd provide an update on this old post of my original full squad of 16 year old youths (those not their have been exchanged), with the current batch about to graduate and their overall level of talent. My full current list is now this: Keepers [fpl=209681245][fpl=209681246][fpl=210454327] Defenders [fpl=209560165][fpl=209681252][fpl=209681247][fpl=209681243][fpl=209681233][fpl=210454330][fpl=210454326] Strikers [fpl=209681236][fpl=209681237][fpl=209560261][fpl=209681253][fpl=209681248][fpl=210454324] Midfielders/Wingers [fpl=209681239][fpl=210454332][fpl=210279934][fpl=210308843][fpl=209681240][fpl=211195002][fpl=211892001] Note: where you see more than two yellow flags, I've combined the old scout report potential information with the new one. Any skill not green is maxed. I have to say that this tool is a resounding success, it's allowed me to identify talent and develop them much better. The quality of U/18 sides has shot through the roof across the globe. This squad won our domestic U18 national cup & the U18 Season 31 Cup - Season 69 But they still can't get above Div 2 of the U18 world league, mainly due to the prevalence of wings also dominating U18 play now as well. Teams having success with short passing are seriously dying now. I won't build another one after this even at U18 level, it's wings with stamina, aerial passing and heading all the way from day one now Some players above will obviously not be good senior players, but there a lot more players still with the possibilities of being useful than before. That can only be a good thing

scruttino wrote:

For those interested in what a full squad of 16 year old players looks like when comparing the old YTC system, against the new youth analysis tool, here is my full squad.

Yellow flags are the old YTC skills
Green flags are the new youth analysis high potential skills
Red flags are the new youth analysis low potential skills

Based on the new knowledge, I've also adjusted the squad in range of potential, with players that have a mixture of good potential in say shooting or tackling, but low potential in key skills like speed or stamina, sort of in the middle to bottom as I'm interested to see what they actually max at.

Interestingly of the 5 keepers on the squad only 2 came back with high potential in keeping

Plus there are still some ambiguous areas - such training speed potential when compared with what the past training graphs data actually is for instance. Not for all, but a few are definitely wrong

You don't get all the answers, but it is better

Myles Kile

Age: 36 (Retired)

Payton Berresford

Age: 36

Grant Sinden

Age: 36

Arsa Hol

Age: 36 (Retired)

Charles Whittington

Age: 36

Stan Boyce

Age: 36

Larkin Burmeister

Age: 36 (Retired)

Bradford Whitmore

Age: 36

Abbott Beale

Age: 36

Bartholemew Worsley

Age: 36 (Retired)

Jimmy Hendrix

Age: 36 (Retired)

Case Mcwilliam

Age: 36

Robert Guy

Age: 36 (Retired)

Dan Dorrell

Age: 36

Barnett Johnston

Age: 36

Kent Goldsmith

Age: 36

Berkeley Freel

Age: 36

Albert Owens

Age: 36

Cain Pears

Age: 36

Albert Willison

Age: 36

Chuck Maunsell

Age: 36

Bennett Muller

Age: 36

Rudy Crawford

Age: 36

I thought I'd provide an update on this old post of my original full squad of 16 year old youths (those not their have been exchanged), with the current batch about to graduate and their overall level of talent.

My full current list is now this:

Keepers

Myles Kile

Age: 36 (Retired)

Payton Berresford

Age: 36

Black White

Age: 35

Defenders

Grant Sinden

Age: 36

Arsa Hol

Age: 36 (Retired)

Charles Whittington

Age: 36

Larkin Burmeister

Age: 36 (Retired)

Bartholemew Worsley

Age: 36 (Retired)

Jarvis Blagburn

Age: 35 (Retired)

Arneil Kurth

Age: 35

Strikers

Bradford Whitmore

Age: 36

Abbott Beale

Age: 36

Robert Guy

Age: 36 (Retired)

Dan Dorrell

Age: 36

Barnett Johnston

Age: 36

Alberto Yard

Age: 35

Midfielders/Wingers

Jimmy Hendrix

Age: 36 (Retired)

Andy Crapp

Age: 35

Andres Clark

Age: 36

Murphey Kenack

Age: 36

Case Mcwilliam

Age: 36

Abe Laing

Age: 35

Stewart Hardiman

Age: 34

Note: where you see more than two yellow flags, I've combined the old scout report potential information with the new one. Any skill not green is maxed.

I have to say that this tool is a resounding success, it's allowed me to identify talent and develop them much better. The quality of U/18 sides has shot through the roof across the globe.

This squad won our domestic U18 national cup & the U18 Season 31 Cup - Season 69

But they still can't get above Div 2 of the U18 world league, mainly due to the prevalence of wings also dominating U18 play now as well. Teams having success with short passing are seriously dying now. I won't build another one after this even at U18 level, it's wings with stamina, aerial passing and heading all the way from day one now

Some players above will obviously not be good senior players, but there a lot more players still with the possibilities of being useful than before. That can only be a good thing

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-01-2020 07:31

[-FO-]

So, after your long analysis, TA is better and more reliable than YTC? Any conclusions?So, after your long analysis, TA is better and more reliable than YTC?
Any conclusions?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 07:39

[AUSNZ]

Absolutely it is, look at how many defenders, mids, strikers and keepers I'll graduate that have at least 9 in their primary skill. Basically all of them, and I'm sure I'm not alone either. Everyone will have really good youth teams about to graduate. The transfer market is about to get a huge hit of mega talent this season and next, so we'll see how it reacts and what players sell for.

mihairo wrote:

So, after your long analysis, TA is better and more reliable than YTC?
Any conclusions?

Absolutely it is, look at how many defenders, mids, strikers and keepers I'll graduate that have at least 9 in their primary skill. Basically all of them, and I'm sure I'm not alone either. Everyone will have really good youth teams about to graduate.

The transfer market is about to get a huge hit of mega talent this season and next, so we'll see how it reacts and what players sell for.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 07:55

[AUSNZ]

I will say though, that having both sets of data to work from was really nice. That won't happen again, because the old scout reports don't exist anymore. But they allowed you to really see what each got right and wrong about the other. If I was to make any change to the current system it would be adding one more potential good skill to the scout report. Then it would be perfect for me. A players Training speed was right 90-95% of the time. As I had one plyer which said 1 star but the training graph and general rates would mean he was at least a 3 star trainer 3 stars means at least 9 balls with probably one out of 10 getting a tenth, 4 stars means 10 balls. As I haven't had a player projected 4 stars not reach ten. 2 stars can get to 7 (some have said 8's but I have experienced that) 1 star is 4-5 (mostly 4's though)I will say though, that having both sets of data to work from was really nice. That won't happen again, because the old scout reports don't exist anymore. But they allowed you to really see what each got right and wrong about the other.

If I was to make any change to the current system it would be adding one more potential good skill to the scout report. Then it would be perfect for me.

A players Training speed was right 90-95% of the time. As I had one plyer which said 1 star but the training graph and general rates would mean he was at least a 3 star trainer

3 stars means at least 9 balls with probably one out of 10 getting a tenth, 4 stars means 10 balls. As I haven't had a player projected 4 stars not reach ten.

2 stars can get to 7 (some have said 8's but I have experienced that)

1 star is 4-5 (mostly 4's though)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 07:58

[AUSNZ]

scruttino wrote:

2 stars can get to 7 (some have said 8's but I have not experienced that)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-01-2020 10:34

[-FO-]

[hpl=30169702] I have presented this hockey player on several occasions. 3HP checking keeping 2LP power control As you can see, he reached power 8 id est all the other skills except control will be at 8 minimum with 50% chances at checking/keeping 10. Also, I saw a 4HP player maxed at 9 9 on the two 4HP skills. Of course I only saw that once in hundreds of 4HP players. You have 75% chances for a 10-9 with a 4HP player and 50-50 chances to reach 10-8 or 9-9 with a worst scenario 3HP player. You can always hope for 10-9 or even 10-10 for 3HP but that scenario is very rare.

Nicu Lăzăroiu

Age: 37 (Retired)

I have presented this hockey player on several occasions.

3HP checking keeping
2LP power control

As you can see, he reached power 8 id est all the other skills except control will be at 8 minimum with 50% chances at checking/keeping 10.

Also, I saw a 4HP player maxed at 9 9 on the two 4HP skills. Of course I only saw that once in hundreds of 4HP players.
You have 75% chances for a 10-9 with a 4HP player and 50-50 chances to reach 10-8 or 9-9 with a worst scenario 3HP player. You can always hope for 10-9 or even 10-10 for 3HP but that scenario is very rare.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-01-2020 10:47

[-FO-]

For me YTC doesn't compare to TA. TA is very precise when it comes to HP skills. Even when you see 2HP you should know that 50-50 worst scenario is 9-7 or 8-8. Best scenario I've seen so far was 10-7 or 9-8. When it comes to LP, TA doesn't seem so accurate. I've seen a 2LP player maxed at 5 6 6 6 on probably his 4 worst skills. Meanwhile, I already have at least one 1LP player training 6 on one 1LP skill or vice-versa I have at least one 2LP player maxed at 4. Well, from this point of view LP is not as accurate as it should be. Worst scenario 2LP is 5 6 or 4 7. Best scenario 2LP is 8-8 which is not right. Best scenario 2LP should be rated as 3LP for better accuracy id est if my hockey player reaches control 6, he should definitely have been rated 3LP. He's in TC control checking stamina to see what's happening.For me YTC doesn't compare to TA.
TA is very precise when it comes to HP skills.
Even when you see 2HP you should know that 50-50 worst scenario is 9-7 or 8-8. Best scenario I've seen so far was 10-7 or 9-8.

When it comes to LP, TA doesn't seem so accurate.
I've seen a 2LP player maxed at 5 6 6 6 on probably his 4 worst skills.
Meanwhile, I already have at least one 1LP player training 6 on one 1LP skill or vice-versa I have at least one 2LP player maxed at 4.

Well, from this point of view LP is not as accurate as it should be.
Worst scenario 2LP is 5 6 or 4 7.
Best scenario 2LP is 8-8 which is not right.
Best scenario 2LP should be rated as 3LP for better accuracy id est if my hockey player reaches control 6, he should definitely have been rated 3LP. He's in TC control checking stamina to see what's happening.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-01-2020 10:52

[-FO-]

And third thing. You never had a chance for LP skills with YTC. Further more, I've seen recommended skills in YTC maxed at 4-6. So what should have been the players strengths transformed into weaknesses. For me knowing 2 real strengths and 2 real weaknesses is far better than 3 recomended skills which you don't even know if they are one the two situations. It could be neither. I understand many people wished for thre HP and three LP skills, but I think it's too much information to start with. It's like seeing into the player's future starting day 1, so, it can become boring training him - just a simple IMO.And third thing.
You never had a chance for LP skills with YTC.
Further more, I've seen recommended skills in YTC maxed at 4-6. So what should have been the players strengths transformed into weaknesses.

For me knowing 2 real strengths and 2 real weaknesses is far better than 3 recomended skills which you don't even know if they are one the two situations. It could be neither.
I understand many people wished for thre HP and three LP skills, but I think it's too much information to start with. It's like seeing into the player's future starting day 1, so, it can become boring training him - just a simple IMO.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 11:03

[AUSNZ]

I understand this kind of player is a rare variant of the rules. People will believe the scout report though (as they should) and go the most likely probability of getting good results. It's not always correct though, which is also as it should be. The margin of error is quite small 5-10 percent, which means you can trust the scout. But player such as my player that was projected 1 star in train speed but in reality is a 3-4 star player, likely won't get selected. Because people trust a game mechanic to be right, even if it isn't 100% of the time. That 5-10% of player will slip though the cracks, I only found out about it through the player already being on my books and knowing his training speed through existing training graph data. New players people exchange for won't get that opportunity, unless they see a 4 star potential, because I don't think people will exchange for 1 star training speed 3 star HP player. The analytical model wouldn't support recruiting such a player.

mihairo wrote:

Nicu Lăzăroiu

Age: 37 (Retired)

I have presented this hockey player on several occasions.

3HP checking keeping
2LP power control

As you can see, he reached power 8 id est all the other skills except control will be at 8 minimum with 50% chances at checking/keeping 10.

Also, I saw a 4HP player maxed at 9 9 on the two 4HP skills. Of course I only saw that once in hundreds of 4HP players.
You have 75% chances for a 10-9 with a 4HP player and 50-50 chances to reach 10-8 or 9-9 with a worst scenario 3HP player. You can always hope for 10-9 or even 10-10 for 3HP but that scenario is very rare.

I understand this kind of player is a rare variant of the rules.

People will believe the scout report though (as they should) and go the most likely probability of getting good results. It's not always correct though, which is also as it should be. The margin of error is quite small 5-10 percent, which means you can trust the scout. But player such as my player that was projected 1 star in train speed but in reality is a 3-4 star player, likely won't get selected.

Because people trust a game mechanic to be right, even if it isn't 100% of the time. That 5-10% of player will slip though the cracks, I only found out about it through the player already being on my books and knowing his training speed through existing training graph data. New players people exchange for won't get that opportunity, unless they see a 4 star potential, because I don't think people will exchange for 1 star training speed 3 star HP player. The analytical model wouldn't support recruiting such a player.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 11:15

[AUSNZ]

The specific player I'm talking about is this [fpl=209681248] His scout report was this 1 Star youth training speed 3 Star high potential - Ball Control & Heading 1 Star low potential - Passing & Stamina But I've never heard of a 1 star/low speed training player with more than 35 balls upon graduation. This player would be at least 3 star training or 4The specific player I'm talking about is this

Barnett Johnston

Age: 36

His scout report was this

1 Star youth training speed
3 Star high potential - Ball Control & Heading
1 Star low potential - Passing & Stamina

But I've never heard of a 1 star/low speed training player with more than 35 balls upon graduation. This player would be at least 3 star training or 4

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 11:35

[AUSNZ]

Generally I agree with you on what you've said. My argument for including one more HP skill in the scout report is demonstrated by what the old YTC information provided me in conjunction with the new scout report feature information. With both, for my current 18 year old players I had access to as many as 6 potential good skills, which gave me a really good idea about what the player was. Now 6 skills may be extreme, but I don't think 3 skills is to many. Now this is just my opinion to, but 3 seems right. That give you scope to see beyond a potential PI & stamina scout report result which doesn't offer much in understanding where a player will play and what they are good at.Generally I agree with you on what you've said.

My argument for including one more HP skill in the scout report is demonstrated by what the old YTC information provided me in conjunction with the new scout report feature information.

With both, for my current 18 year old players I had access to as many as 6 potential good skills, which gave me a really good idea about what the player was. Now 6 skills may be extreme, but I don't think 3 skills is to many. Now this is just my opinion to, but 3 seems right.

That give you scope to see beyond a potential PI & stamina scout report result which doesn't offer much in understanding where a player will play and what they are good at.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-01-2020 12:36

[-FO-]

First of all. A player such as yours is discarded because of 1LP stamina, not 1TS. A 3-4TS player could reach 40-45 balls at the age of 18 so you see the difference. And second, I understand that having universal skills like PI or stamina doesn't tell you much, but tells you plenty. 1. A player not having at least 3HP keeping can't become a keeper. 2. You depend on LP skills to decide what to train him. For e.g Low tackling means he can become a forward and vice-versa. Low control could make you to train him checking Low speed could make you train him checking Low header could make you train him passing cross For me it's more than enough info. 3. There were many RL cases when a player started a youth keeper and played senior forward and vice-versa. I think we should have that in MZ as well. The TA should still make us discover the player's talents.First of all. A player such as yours is discarded because of 1LP stamina, not 1TS.
A 3-4TS player could reach 40-45 balls at the age of 18 so you see the difference.

And second, I understand that having universal skills like PI or stamina doesn't tell you much, but tells you plenty.
1. A player not having at least 3HP keeping can't become a keeper.
2. You depend on LP skills to decide what to train him.
For e.g
Low tackling means he can become a forward and vice-versa.
Low control could make you to train him checking
Low speed could make you train him checking
Low header could make you train him passing cross

For me it's more than enough info.

3. There were many RL cases when a player started a youth keeper and played senior forward and vice-versa.

I think we should have that in MZ as well. The TA should still make us discover the player's talents.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 12:50

[AUSNZ]

But such a player could be a great sub, I've managed the Australian National team before in football & I'm the current Australian NC in Hockey (until this season I'd won 7 league titles in a row). Low stamina players have less impact in Hockey. But in Football I know of a few players (strikers) with 4-5 stamina that have made the national team and been used as a late game sub to great effect. 4-5 stamina will kill most players unless you use them as a sub and a world class striker good for only 20-30 minute, I've seen them sell for 4-5 million AUD (2-3 million Euro). Which, for a player most people would never give a chance to even begin because of a low stamina rating is ridiculousBut such a player could be a great sub, I've managed the Australian National team before in football & I'm the current Australian NC in Hockey (until this season I'd won 7 league titles in a row).

Low stamina players have less impact in Hockey. But in Football I know of a few players (strikers) with 4-5 stamina that have made the national team and been used as a late game sub to great effect.

4-5 stamina will kill most players unless you use them as a sub and a world class striker good for only 20-30 minute, I've seen them sell for 4-5 million AUD (2-3 million Euro).

Which, for a player most people would never give a chance to even begin because of a low stamina rating is ridiculous

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By diesel-7 - 02-01-2020 13:19

[AUSNZ]

Hey Scruttino, Just FYI/stats, here is a 4HP not reaching 10. I'm Sure this is uncommon, but shows it's possible... [fpl=210576083]

scruttino wrote:

3 stars means at least 9 balls with probably one out of 10 getting a tenth, 4 stars means 10 balls. As I haven't had a player projected 4 stars not reach ten.

Hey Scruttino, Just FYI/stats, here is a 4HP not reaching 10. I'm Sure this is uncommon, but shows it's possible...

Marcus Rashford

Age: 35

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

By kostrzak16 - 02-01-2020 13:36

[U18-FS]

Heh, I won your U-18 league 18 points ahead while playing same short passing tactic entire season :) You got lucky with main skills on your players, it is rather hard to get 9-10 now and next season we will see a decline in juniors quality(mark my words) because a chance for 4 star sixteens is super low now. This should be healthy for Managerzone though, cause seeing everyone have squads with players full of 9-10 was quite boring and made me quit MZ 10 years ago :)

scruttino wrote:

This squad won our domestic U18 national cup & the U18 Season 31 Cup - Season 69

But they still can't get above Div 2 of the U18 world league, mainly due to the prevalence of wings also dominating U18 play now as well. Teams having success with short passing are seriously dying now.

Heh, I won your U-18 league 18 points ahead while playing same short passing tactic entire season :)

You got lucky with main skills on your players, it is rather hard to get 9-10 now and next season we will see a decline in juniors quality(mark my words) because a chance for 4 star sixteens is super low now. This should be healthy for Managerzone though, cause seeing everyone have squads with players full of 9-10 was quite boring and made me quit MZ 10 years ago :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 14:50

[AUSNZ]

Good luck to you :) Trying to climb through world league divisions is seriously difficult. I gave up on the 3rd U18 world league season, this season because I wanted my players to go to TC's. The squad I have playing out my current games is a far cry from the best squad I put on the pitch for the first half of the season. I was all in earlier in the season to see what was possible, but got very disheartened when I was constantly getting beaten by wing teams despite leveling all the game stats against them and play 50-50 games. I found the difference between people playing wing and running one tactic (with minor variations up front) and short passing teams alternating between 3 defender and 4 defender tactics, was so big, that even a very good squad such as the one above couldn't make any progress above div 2. I'll try the the wing training strategy for the next squad and perfect what makes U18 wing tactic work.

kostrzak16 wrote:

Heh, I won your U-18 league 18 points ahead while playing same short passing tactic entire season :)

You got lucky with main skills on your players, it is rather hard to get 9-10 now and next season we will see a decline in juniors quality(mark my words) because a chance for 4 star sixteens is super low now. This should be healthy for Managerzone though, cause seeing everyone have squads with players full of 9-10 was quite boring and made me quit MZ 10 years ago :)

Good luck to you :)

Trying to climb through world league divisions is seriously difficult. I gave up on the 3rd U18 world league season, this season because I wanted my players to go to TC's.

The squad I have playing out my current games is a far cry from the best squad I put on the pitch for the first half of the season. I was all in earlier in the season to see what was possible, but got very disheartened when I was constantly getting beaten by wing teams despite leveling all the game stats against them and play 50-50 games.

I found the difference between people playing wing and running one tactic (with minor variations up front) and short passing teams alternating between 3 defender and 4 defender tactics, was so big, that even a very good squad such as the one above couldn't make any progress above div 2.

I'll try the the wing training strategy for the next squad and perfect what makes U18 wing tactic work.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 14:51

[AUSNZ]

I know it's possible, but it seems like a one in ten or worst unlucky flip for that to happen though.

diesel-7 wrote:

Hey Scruttino, Just FYI/stats, here is a 4HP not reaching 10. I'm Sure this is uncommon, but shows it's possible...

Marcus Rashford

Age: 35

I know it's possible, but it seems like a one in ten or worst unlucky flip for that to happen though.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-01-2020 18:04

[-FO-]

You probably have a weak market and good players are hard to find. In my country nobody looks at speed stamina 6 not to mention 4-5.

scruttino wrote:

But such a player could be a great sub, I've managed the Australian National team before in football & I'm the current Australian NC in Hockey (until this season I'd won 7 league titles in a row).

Low stamina players have less impact in Hockey. But in Football I know of a few players (strikers) with 4-5 stamina that have made the national team and been used as a late game sub to great effect.

4-5 stamina will kill most players unless you use them as a sub and a world class striker good for only 20-30 minute, I've seen them sell for 4-5 million AUD (2-3 million Euro).

Which, for a player most people would never give a chance to even begin because of a low stamina rating is ridiculous

You probably have a weak market and good players are hard to find.
In my country nobody looks at speed stamina 6 not to mention 4-5.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 02-01-2020 19:01

[AUSNZ]

You've nailed Australia to a Capital T (or C for Canberra #nevergothere) :)

mihairo wrote:

You probably have a weak market and good players are hard to find.
In my country nobody looks at speed stamina 6 not to mention 4-5.

You've nailed Australia to a Capital T (or C for Canberra #nevergothere) :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 02-01-2020 19:53

[-FO-]

Maybe you'll develop. In the end Australia is much bigger with a population of 25 mil and increasing, while my country has a population of 19 mil and decreasing. Good luck!Maybe you'll develop.
In the end Australia is much bigger with a population of 25 mil and increasing, while my country has a population of 19 mil and decreasing.
Good luck!

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By yenscallens123 - 07-01-2020 11:57

[BNL]

So.. We've been discussing this morning on dutch forums. The new Youths are in General "visibly" terrible... Mostly 2*HP 2*LP with 2*HP 1*LP being no exception to get often. Did they over compensate?So.. We've been discussing this morning on dutch forums. The new Youths are in General "visibly" terrible... Mostly 2*HP 2*LP with 2*HP 1*LP being no exception to get often. Did they over compensate?

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By ildraco - 07-01-2020 12:33

[BNL3]

Yes as always they screwed up once again.Yes as always they screwed up once again.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 - 10-01-2020 02:38

[AUSNZ]
President

I have a question for the youth analysis experts. I’ve seen a few posts now in the “Transfers” forum advertising players for sale. They are 4 star player in the two select attributes and 2 star lowest potential in the two attributes. Both posts have claimed besides the 2 high and 2 low skills all other stats will get to a minimum 7 balls? That is not fact is it? Just because a skill might not be indicated as the lowest doesn’t mean you still won’t have a maxing of 5/6/ in a skill correct? I could be completely wrong though. Thanks in advance 😊I have a question for the youth analysis experts.

I’ve seen a few posts now in the “Transfers” forum advertising players for sale. They are 4 star player in the two select attributes and 2 star lowest potential in the two attributes. Both posts have claimed besides the 2 high and 2 low skills all other stats will get to a minimum 7 balls?

That is not fact is it? Just because a skill might not be indicated as the lowest doesn’t mean you still won’t have a maxing of 5/6/ in a skill correct? I could be completely wrong though.

Thanks in advance 😊

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By jere92 - 10-01-2020 07:38

If the youth potential system hasnt failed to deliver this far it should be as they say. I saw 2 of these players and their second LP had been maxed at 7 balls so this indicates that all the skill that are not mentioned in the scout report will be tied with this low potential for worst. They can ofc rise above it but not over the HP. If the players has 9 ball in lower HP the rest of the skills will be 7-9 balls as they can also tie with the HP.If the youth potential system hasnt failed to deliver this far it should be as they say.

I saw 2 of these players and their second LP had been maxed at 7 balls so this indicates that all the skill that are not mentioned in the scout report will be tied with this low potential for worst. They can ofc rise above it but not over the HP. If the players has 9 ball in lower HP the rest of the skills will be 7-9 balls as they can also tie with the HP.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By manekaster - 11-01-2020 04:29

[TDF]
President

You're answering your own question 😀 Unfortunately, or luckily some might say, you can't be guaranteed to get 7 balls in an attribute with 2 stars low potential. I've experienced maxings in both 5 and 6, but I guess there is a normal distribution with 7 as the most common value for 2 stars.

chucky06 wrote:

I have a question for the youth analysis experts.

I’ve seen a few posts now in the “Transfers” forum advertising players for sale. They are 4 star player in the two select attributes and 2 star lowest potential in the two attributes. Both posts have claimed besides the 2 high and 2 low skills all other stats will get to a minimum 7 balls?

That is not fact is it? Just because a skill might not be indicated as the lowest doesn’t mean you still won’t have a maxing of 5/6/ in a skill correct? I could be completely wrong though.

Thanks in advance 😊

You're answering your own question 😀 Unfortunately, or luckily some might say, you can't be guaranteed to get 7 balls in an attribute with 2 stars low potential. I've experienced maxings in both 5 and 6, but I guess there is a normal distribution with 7 as the most common value for 2 stars.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 - 11-01-2020 05:36

[AUSNZ]
President

If that’s the case then the terminology needs to be changed from “lowest potential” to low potential of it’s possible for other skills to max lower than the two indicated skillsIf that’s the case then the terminology needs to be changed from “lowest potential” to low potential of it’s possible for other skills to max lower than the two indicated skills

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 11-01-2020 07:37

[-FO-]

Hello. Some players have the Lowest Potential at 4-5, some at 5-6 and very few at 6-8. In most of the cases there are other skills to match the LP but not lower. For e.g. if one of our player has a 2LP at 6 6, you still can expect to see a third skill maxed at 6 as well. With higher LP you have a higher probability to see other skills to match the best indicates LP skill. Another example, which is very rare. If one of your 2LP skills reaches 7, you can expect to see other skills maxed at 7 as well. This is not exactly a bad player because 7 is considered to be a good skill, not a weakness. The best 2LP situation is when your player reaches 8 on one of the 2LP skills. In this rare case, your player will have many skills at 8 and above.

chucky06 wrote:

If that’s the case then the terminology needs to be changed from “lowest potential” to low potential of it’s possible for other skills to max lower than the two indicated skills

Hello.
Some players have the Lowest Potential at 4-5, some at 5-6 and very few at 6-8.
In most of the cases there are other skills to match the LP but not lower.
For e.g. if one of our player has a 2LP at 6 6, you still can expect to see a third skill maxed at 6 as well.
With higher LP you have a higher probability to see other skills to match the best indicates LP skill.
Another example, which is very rare. If one of your 2LP skills reaches 7, you can expect to see other skills maxed at 7 as well.
This is not exactly a bad player because 7 is considered to be a good skill, not a weakness.
The best 2LP situation is when your player reaches 8 on one of the 2LP skills. In this rare case, your player will have many skills at 8 and above.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 - 11-01-2020 07:49

[AUSNZ]
President

So to clarify... If a player reaches 7 in his identified lowest potential skill, no other skills will max lower than this?

mihairo wrote:

Hello.
Some players have the Lowest Potential at 4-5, some at 5-6 and very few at 6-8.
In most of the cases there are other skills to match the LP but not lower.
For e.g. if one of our player has a 2LP at 6 6, you still can expect to see a third skill maxed at 6 as well.
With higher LP you have a higher probability to see other skills to match the best indicates LP skill.
Another example, which is very rare. If one of your 2LP skills reaches 7, you can expect to see other skills maxed at 7 as well.
This is not exactly a bad player because 7 is considered to be a good skill, not a weakness.
The best 2LP situation is when your player reaches 8 on one of the 2LP skills. In this rare case, your player will have many skills at 8 and above.

So to clarify... If a player reaches 7 in his identified lowest potential skill, no other skills will max lower than this?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By diesel-7 - 11-01-2020 11:28

[AUSNZ]

Thats the way I understand the system chucky. If a player has 2LP in say heading/shooting, and maxes 6 heading/7 shooting, then NO other skill will max below 6. But, this is just my understanding. Maybe someone like Scrutino, with his youth experince, could add something??

chucky06 wrote:

So to clarify... If a player reaches 7 in his identified lowest potential skill, no other skills will max lower than this?

Thats the way I understand the system chucky.
If a player has 2LP in say heading/shooting, and maxes 6 heading/7 shooting, then NO other skill will max below 6.

But, this is just my understanding. Maybe someone like Scrutino, with his youth experince, could add something??

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 11-01-2020 11:57

[AUSNZ]

I haven't gotten far enough in training my players in LP skills to be able to comment on this. So far I've maxed out one LP skill on some players, but no more than one. I would think most managers are in the same position I am, due to a lack of training time since the new youth potential tool was implemented. I would say wait until the current 19 year old players are 21, or even better 24-25 to have a real grasp on the specifics of how LP works. Sorry I can't help anyone more on this one. I know there is at least 5-10% error in how the youth potential tool calculates youth training speed. It wouldn't surprise me if this same amount of error was also present in LP & HP skills. But I would need more time to confirm this or not. But, and this is only my opinion,

diesel-7 wrote:

Thats the way I understand the system chucky.
If a player has 2LP in say heading/shooting, and maxes 6 heading/7 shooting, then NO other skill will max below 6.

But, this is just my understanding. Maybe someone like Scrutino, with his youth experince, could add something??

I haven't gotten far enough in training my players in LP skills to be able to comment on this. So far I've maxed out one LP skill on some players, but no more than one.

I would think most managers are in the same position I am, due to a lack of training time since the new youth potential tool was implemented.

I would say wait until the current 19 year old players are 21, or even better 24-25 to have a real grasp on the specifics of how LP works.

Sorry I can't help anyone more on this one.

I know there is at least 5-10% error in how the youth potential tool calculates youth training speed.

It wouldn't surprise me if this same amount of error was also present in LP & HP skills.

But I would need more time to confirm this or not.

But, and this is only my opinion,

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 11-01-2020 12:38

[-FO-]

Yes.

chucky06 wrote:

So to clarify... If a player reaches 7 in his identified lowest potential skill, no other skills will max lower than this?

Yes.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 11-01-2020 12:42

[-FO-]

Actually no other skill will max below 7. And to make it clear. If you discover that one LP skill reaches 7, it means all the other skills - EXCEPT THE OTHER LP SKILL - will be 7 or above.

diesel-7 wrote:

Thats the way I understand the system chucky.
If a player has 2LP in say heading/shooting, and maxes 6 heading/7 shooting, then NO other skill will max below 6.

But, this is just my understanding. Maybe someone like Scrutino, with his youth experince, could add something??

Actually no other skill will max below 7.

And to make it clear.
If you discover that one LP skill reaches 7, it means all the other skills - EXCEPT THE OTHER LP SKILL - will be 7 or above.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By doug7887 - 14-01-2020 17:27

[LEGEND]

Hi I have a question: is there any chance of mistake when the tool predict the potential of the player?Hi

I have a question: is there any chance of mistake when the tool predict the potential of the player?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By scruttino - 14-01-2020 23:13

[AUSNZ]

Yeah, from my own pool of data I know the tool incorrectly calculates a youths training speed 5-10% of the time. It wouldn't be out of the box to assume that also goes for HP & LP skills as well

doug7887 wrote:

Hi

I have a question: is there any chance of mistake when the tool predict the potential of the player?

Yeah, from my own pool of data I know the tool incorrectly calculates a youths training speed 5-10% of the time.

It wouldn't be out of the box to assume that also goes for HP & LP skills as well

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By doug7887 - 15-01-2020 15:14

[LEGEND]

Interesting, thanks

scruttino wrote:

Yeah, from my own pool of data I know the tool incorrectly calculates a youths training speed 5-10% of the time.

It wouldn't be out of the box to assume that also goes for HP & LP skills as well

Interesting, thanks

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By doug7887 - 15-01-2020 15:24

[LEGEND]

It makes sense when analyzing two of my players here about the develop speed

scruttino wrote:

Yeah, from my own pool of data I know the tool incorrectly calculates a youths training speed 5-10% of the time.

It wouldn't be out of the box to assume that also goes for HP & LP skills as well

It makes sense when analyzing two of my players here about the develop speed

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mayunga - 03-02-2020 20:31

[World]

mihairo - thank you. I came to this post for this information specifically

mihairo wrote:

Actually no other skill will max below 7.

And to make it clear.
If you discover that one LP skill reaches 7, it means all the other skills - EXCEPT THE OTHER LP SKILL - will be 7 or above.

mihairo - thank you. I came to this post for this information specifically

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