Football » English » ManagerZone talk

Youth Potential Tool

By darkline (MA) (NC) - 12-06-2019 12:07

[FLUSA]
President

Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit. So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper: [img]https://snag.gy/03nShj.jpg[/img] And I got this scout report for him [img]https://snag.gy/YVhgST.jpg[/img] So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"? I really like that we can check out current youths btw.Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.

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Re: Youth Potential Tool

By thegivike - 09-01-2021 14:05

[BNL]

World league? There are tons of cups? When I was in the highest division I spent loads on scout games just to prepare for the final stages of cups etc.

brian_mcsnail wrote:

But MZ makes money on youth leagues and nothing on senior.

World league? There are tons of cups? When I was in the highest division I spent loads on scout games just to prepare for the final stages of cups etc.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By k33n3y - 17-01-2021 02:19

You get 23 youths and you want more. That alone is ludicrous. Then you combine that with how overpowered training camps are so it becomes more pay to win. No thanks. Frankly you should not be allowed to pay for more training camp slots. Its the one thing that really ruins this game for me. But wanting more than a generous 23 youth players? Youre off your head.You get 23 youths and you want more. That alone is ludicrous.

Then you combine that with how overpowered training camps are so it becomes more pay to win. No thanks.

Frankly you should not be allowed to pay for more training camp slots. Its the one thing that really ruins this game for me.

But wanting more than a generous 23 youth players? Youre off your head.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 21-01-2021 10:32

[POLSKA]

The youth system is a joke sometimes. Waited to have a keeper with high on inteligence, and look at this ! blocked on 4 balls on 2 low stamina... He is useless now, on the market already probably no-one even buy him. The question is why... :D [fpl=213082559]The youth system is a joke sometimes. Waited to have a keeper with high on inteligence, and look at this ! blocked on 4 balls on 2 low stamina...
He is useless now, on the market already probably no-one even buy him. The question is why... :D

Mohammed Ahmed Ben Kebakopoulos

Age: 19

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By brian_mcsnail (RA) - 21-01-2021 10:55

[B&IFF]
President

That’s a right kick in the balls! I have a 2*2* who may turn out semi useful!That’s a right kick in the balls!

I have a 2*2* who may turn out semi useful!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By brian_mcsnail (RA) - 21-01-2021 10:56

[B&IFF]
President

[fpl=212473213]

Christopher Carmichael

Age: 20

SpeedSp					(8)
StaminaSt					(8)
Play IntelligencePI					(2)
PassingPa					(0)
ShootingSh					(3)
HeadingHe					(4)
KeepingKe					(0)
Ball ControlBC					(4)
TacklingTa					(9)
Aerial PassingAP					(6)
Set PlaysSP					(1)
ExperienceEx					(3)
FormFo					(9)
Total Skill Balls					45

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline (MA) (NC) - 21-01-2021 14:58

[FLUSA]
President

This is my 2*2* , pretty resourceful guy and trains very fast [fpl=212595302]

brian_mcsnail wrote:

That’s a right kick in the balls!

I have a 2*2* who may turn out semi useful!

This is my 2*2* , pretty resourceful guy and trains very fast

Neil Vincent

Age: 20

SpeedSp					(8)
StaminaSt					(8)
Play IntelligencePI					(3)
PassingPa					(3)
ShootingSh					(9)
HeadingHe					(7)
KeepingKe					(1)
Ball ControlBC					(8)
TacklingTa					(1)
Aerial PassingAP					(2)
Set PlaysSP					(1)
ExperienceEx					(3)
FormFo					(4)
Total Skill Balls					51

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By coswin - 21-01-2021 15:01

[FRF]

Some of you seems to have figured out so maybe you can help me with this one: 3* HP on Speed/Keeping - maxed out on 9 speed, going for 10 on keeping. 2* LP Ball control/AP Other maxing: 8 stamina. Currently on 4 AP. Any hopes I can get it to 7 AP?Some of you seems to have figured out so maybe you can help me with this one:

3* HP on Speed/Keeping - maxed out on 9 speed, going for 10 on keeping.
2* LP Ball control/AP
Other maxing: 8 stamina.

Currently on 4 AP. Any hopes I can get it to 7 AP?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By brian_mcsnail (RA) - 21-01-2021 15:51

[B&IFF]
President

Tasty! I think it could possibly still get 8 but means BC would be 6 at best. I have a Hockey player which was 3*2* One of the 2* is 8. Fortunately the other 2* is keeping so he should be a bit of a beast!

darkline wrote:

This is my 2*2* , pretty resourceful guy and trains very fast

Neil Vincent

Age: 20

SpeedSp					(8)
StaminaSt					(8)
Play IntelligencePI					(3)
PassingPa					(3)
ShootingSh					(9)
HeadingHe					(7)
KeepingKe					(1)
Ball ControlBC					(8)
TacklingTa					(1)
Aerial PassingAP					(2)
Set PlaysSP					(1)
ExperienceEx					(3)
FormFo					(4)
Total Skill Balls					51

Tasty!

coswin wrote:

Some of you seems to have figured out so maybe you can help me with this one:

3* HP on Speed/Keeping - maxed out on 9 speed, going for 10 on keeping.
2* LP Ball control/AP
Other maxing: 8 stamina.

Currently on 4 AP. Any hopes I can get it to 7 AP?

I think it could possibly still get 8 but means BC would be 6 at best.

I have a Hockey player which was 3*2*

One of the 2* is 8. Fortunately the other 2* is keeping so he should be a bit of a beast!

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By casino44 - 03-02-2021 16:41

[BNL]

I have a player who I think does not align with the notion that 2* means that a player should at least get 24 balls on its 4 weakest skills. [fpl=211117784] 4* HP PI/Pass, 2* LP Keep/Tack. He's maxed at BC, Tackling and AP, and since Keeping is an LP it should not be able to go further than 6. But that would mean the 4 weakest skills of this player amount to a total of 23 balls.. Any thoughts on this?I have a player who I think does not align with the notion that 2* means that a player should at least get 24 balls on its 4 weakest skills.

Stevie Gee

Age: 22

SpeedSp					(9)
StaminaSt					(9)
Play IntelligencePI					(4)
PassingPa					(9)
ShootingSh					(8)
HeadingHe					(0)
KeepingKe					(1)
Ball ControlBC					(6)
TacklingTa					(5)
Aerial PassingAP					(6)
Set PlaysSP					(0)
ExperienceEx					(5)
FormFo					(9)
Total Skill Balls					57

4* HP PI/Pass, 2* LP Keep/Tack. He's maxed at BC, Tackling and AP, and since Keeping is an LP it should not be able to go further than 6. But that would mean the 4 weakest skills of this player amount to a total of 23 balls..

Any thoughts on this?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By paradoxjor (GA) - 03-02-2021 17:11

[王者归来]
President

If the potential of Gee is really 2* LP Keep/Tack, it really surprises me. I never see 2* LP is just 23 balls. Could you show the potential graph of Gee?If the potential of Gee is really 2* LP Keep/Tack, it really surprises me. I never see 2* LP is just 23 balls. Could you show the potential graph of Gee?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By radu1204 (LA) - 03-02-2021 17:31

[FRF]

I think the minimum of a player with 2LP is [b]5 6 6 6 8[/b], which would mean that the sum of the 4 weakest skills is 23. This would also mean that everything rest will reach at least 8.I think the minimum of a player with 2LP is 5 6 6 6 8, which would mean that the sum of the 4 weakest skills is 23. This would also mean that everything rest will reach at least 8.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mayunga - 03-02-2021 18:54

[World]

Wait.. I just realised. Why couldn't the creators of the Youth Potential just tell us the possibilities of HP's LP's and Training Speed and we wouldn't need this forum?Wait.. I just realised.

Why couldn't the creators of the Youth Potential just tell us the possibilities of HP's LP's and Training Speed and we wouldn't need this forum?

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By casino44 - 03-02-2021 19:15

[BNL]

It really is. I've already shared all information I can about Gee, it's not possible for me to share the potentials.

paradoxjor wrote:

If the potential of Gee is really 2* LP Keep/Tack, it really surprises me. I never see 2* LP is just 23 balls. Could you show the potential graph of Gee?

It really is. I've already shared all information I can about Gee, it's not possible for me to share the potentials.

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By casino44 - 03-02-2021 19:21

[BNL]

[img]https://i.ibb.co/qNgCyRq/steviegee.png[/img] But here is a screenshot for good measure.

But here is a screenshot for good measure.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 03-02-2021 19:45

[ARMY]

Hello. The worst 2LPs are: 2LP 6 6 6 6 6 2LP 5 6 6 6 8 I haven't seen an LP 5 6 6 7 7 yet, so I don't know if it 1LP or 2LP. Anyway, your player is, just like Radu1204 said, 2LP 5 6 6 6 8. The best 2LP we've seen so far is: 2LP 7 9 9 9 9 Goodluck and have fun!Hello.

The worst 2LPs are:
2LP 6 6 6 6 6
2LP 5 6 6 6 8

I haven't seen an LP 5 6 6 7 7 yet, so I don't know if it 1LP or 2LP.

Anyway, your player is, just like Radu1204 said, 2LP 5 6 6 6 8.

The best 2LP we've seen so far is:
2LP 7 9 9 9 9

Goodluck and have fun!

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By jerdefox - 04-02-2021 08:33

Is it common sense in Romania to ignore the usual LP2= 24 balls? Never heard of the 6 6 6 6 6 or 5 6 6 6 8-thing before...Is it common sense in Romania to ignore the usual LP2= 24 balls?
Never heard of the 6 6 6 6 6 or 5 6 6 6 8-thing before...

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

By kostrzak16 - 04-02-2021 09:49

Yeah, I don't know why you guys are coming back with "5 skills count" theories :) LP 2 is at least 23 balls in 4 worst skills. Here is example: [img]https://i.imgur.com/YAlyAM0.png[/img]Yeah, I don't know why you guys are coming back with "5 skills count" theories :)

LP 2 is at least 23 balls in 4 worst skills. Here is example:

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 04-02-2021 15:17

[ARMY]

Right. So, the difference between a 2LP 5 6 6 6 and 1LP 5 6 6 6 is?Right.

So, the difference between a 2LP 5 6 6 6 and 1LP 5 6 6 6 is?

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

By kostrzak16 - 04-02-2021 17:30

I don't think there is 1LP 5 6 6 6. Show id or screenshot if there is.I don't think there is 1LP 5 6 6 6. Show id or screenshot if there is.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 05-02-2021 06:12

[ARMY]

I let you look for this one. It shouldn't take long. You've got all the answers :)) Take care.I let you look for this one. It shouldn't take long.
You've got all the answers :))

Take care.

Отн: Youth Potential Tool

By naskoch - 06-02-2021 09:37

[XA-FED]

I think the problem is not at the number of the youths, the problem is that 20 of 23 are useless at most of the teams and the exchanges are useless also probably must be increased the number of 4 star players(For 2 seasons since I turned back to play, havent got any 4 star player and have exchanged 3 times all the youths and all the weekly changes), thats the biggest upcoming problem with the lack of good players the number must be 24 so when you have 13 players at TC like I have now, must play with 10 players at u18 league and cups

k33n3y wrote:

You get 23 youths and you want more. That alone is ludicrous.

Then you combine that with how overpowered training camps are so it becomes more pay to win. No thanks.

Frankly you should not be allowed to pay for more training camp slots. Its the one thing that really ruins this game for me.

But wanting more than a generous 23 youth players? Youre off your head.

I think the problem is not at the number of the youths, the problem is that 20 of 23 are useless at most of the teams and the exchanges are useless also
probably must be increased the number of 4 star players(For 2 seasons since I turned back to play, havent got any 4 star player and have exchanged 3 times all the youths and all the weekly changes), thats the biggest upcoming problem with the lack of good players
the number must be 24 so when you have 13 players at TC like I have now, must play with 10 players at u18 league and cups

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 08:59

[ARMY]

I feel obliged to come back with a reply. I didn't mean to sound rude. I just saw 2LP 5 6 6 6 6 on the TM. I also saw both 4HP 9 9 9 9 9 and 3HP 9 9 9 9 9. So, it is possible that the Training Analysis is not 100% accurate. The scouter is more human than expected. Also, I think there is no actual line between worst 4HP and best 3HP, or worst 2LP and best 1LP. The best 1LP I've seen so far is something like 4 6 6 7 9 (32 balls) which is by far better than 2LP 5 6 6 6 6 (29 balls). I also saw yesterday a 3HP 9 9 X 7 7 (39-41 balls), which is by far worse than the best 2HP I've seen 2HP 9 8 8 8 8 (41 balls) with other eights in 2LP. I hope my explanation helps. Good luck and enjoy!I feel obliged to come back with a reply. I didn't mean to sound rude.

kostrzak16 wrote:

I don't think there is 1LP 5 6 6 6. Show id or screenshot if there is.

I just saw 2LP 5 6 6 6 6 on the TM.

I also saw both 4HP 9 9 9 9 9 and 3HP 9 9 9 9 9.

So, it is possible that the Training Analysis is not 100% accurate.
The scouter is more human than expected.

Also, I think there is no actual line between worst 4HP and best 3HP, or worst 2LP and best 1LP.

The best 1LP I've seen so far is something like 4 6 6 7 9 (32 balls) which is by far better than 2LP 5 6 6 6 6 (29 balls).

I also saw yesterday a 3HP 9 9 X 7 7 (39-41 balls), which is by far worse than the best 2HP I've seen 2HP 9 8 8 8 8 (41 balls) with other eights in 2LP.

I hope my explanation helps.

Good luck and enjoy!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 09:19

[ARMY]

Oh, and if you're wondering what is the best 2LP we've seen so far, you'd be amazed. It's 2LP 7 9 9 9 9 (43 balls). This is utter nonsense, because there are many 3HPs which don't reach 43 balls. So, when I asked the Crew to really implement 3LP, not just hypothetical, the response was that it would be nonsense that a player with one 9 and 10 eights to have a 2HP 3LP Training Anlaysis. No it's not nonsense to a have the best 2LP more powerful than most of the 3HPs in the game. I want to conclude that the TA is by far better than the former YTC, but the way it was implemented needs some improvement.Oh, and if you're wondering what is the best 2LP we've seen so far, you'd be amazed.
It's 2LP 7 9 9 9 9 (43 balls).

This is utter nonsense, because there are many 3HPs which don't reach 43 balls.

So, when I asked the Crew to really implement 3LP, not just hypothetical, the response was that it would be nonsense that a player with one 9 and 10 eights to have a 2HP 3LP Training Anlaysis.

No it's not nonsense to a have the best 2LP more powerful than most of the 3HPs in the game.

I want to conclude that the TA is by far better than the former YTC, but the way it was implemented needs some improvement.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 11:57

[ARMY]

And now, if you're asking me what the solution would be, it's surprisingly obvious. Just downgrade all the HPs and LPs with just one ball. For e.g 4HP minimum 9 9 9 9 9 or 10 9 9 8 8 or 10 10 8 8 8 I see absolutely no problem here. Currently 5 nines can be 3HP or 4HP, while the other two combinations are 3HP. 3HP minimum 9 8 8 8 8 or 9 9 8 7 7 or 10 8 8 7 6 or 10 9 7 6 6 or 10 10 6 6 6 Currently, 9 8 8 8 8 is 2LP. I don't know what the others are. The huge advantage would be that we would know from the start that we're dealing with a very good prospect. Most of these kind of 2LPs are discarded from day 1, not even suspecting that they're actually very good players. 2HP minimum 10 7 6 6 6 or 9 8 7 6 6 or 8 8 8 7 6. The same thing for LPs. We already know that 4 7 is a 2LP. Why not for 4 6 or 5 5 as well? They are currently 1LPs. I mean what is the difference between a 2LP 5 6 6 6 6 and a 1LP 4 6 9 9 9? Why not keep the 1LP as intended? Just 4 4 or 4 5. That's it. Let the 4 6 and 5 5 combinations turn into 2LPs. Just a simple IMO, there is absolutely no difference between 2LP 5 6 6 6 6 and 1LP 4 6 6 6 6. I hope all sees that. This way 2LP would be between 4 6 or 5 5 and 6 6 or 5 7 or 4 8. Meanwhile, introduce 3LP starting from 13 balls. 3LP 6 7 or 5 8 or 4 9. I know it sounds very weird for people who haven't seen weird players. Let's s say you have an extreme player, like 10 10 10 10 6 as his best skills. Currently, 10 10 10 9 7 is a 4HP player. A player with 4 tens and all the other skills at 6 is a total enigma for me. Is it 4HP 2LP or 3HP 2LP? I don't know yet. Let's see what kind of player are we talking about. 4HP 10 10 10 10 6 = 46 balls 2LP 6 6 6 6 6 = 30 balls. Knowing that hockey players have 10 skills, it's a 76 pucks player (probably 4HP) and, knowing that football players have 11 skills, it's an 82 balls players (also probably 4HP). I think we agree on this one, having 4 tens, but let's take another example. We've got the maximum 2HP 2LP combination. 2HP 9 8 8 8 8 = 41 balls 2LP 8 8 8 8 8 = 40 balls It's a 81 pucks hockey player and a 89 balls football player. If the TA is telling me that the first player is better than the second, then I'm sorry to say that it is not so relevant after all. The second player in fact a 3HP 3LP player. If the TA is implemented as such, now we have a choice, a real choice. What do you prefer? A high HP low LP vs. a medium HP medium LP player. How do you feel when I'm actually telling you all that many of the discarded 2HP 2LP youths could have been U21 NT players right now? Do you feel tricked by the TA? Meanwhile, I see a lot of worthless 4HP 2LP players on the Market. I hope everybody, including the Crew, actually reads this and the TA will be more helpful than it is today. I am not looking to see too much into the players' future. But I am looking for real TA, because when we're discarding good prospects thinking they are poor and we keep poor prospects thinking they are good... Well, I feel tricked.And now, if you're asking me what the solution would be, it's surprisingly obvious.
Just downgrade all the HPs and LPs with just one ball.

For e.g

4HP minimum 9 9 9 9 9 or 10 9 9 8 8 or 10 10 8 8 8
I see absolutely no problem here.
Currently 5 nines can be 3HP or 4HP, while the other two combinations are 3HP.

3HP minimum 9 8 8 8 8 or 9 9 8 7 7 or 10 8 8 7 6 or 10 9 7 6 6 or 10 10 6 6 6
Currently, 9 8 8 8 8 is 2LP. I don't know what the others are.
The huge advantage would be that we would know from the start that we're dealing with a very good prospect. Most of these kind of 2LPs are discarded from day 1, not even suspecting that they're actually very good players.

2HP minimum 10 7 6 6 6 or 9 8 7 6 6 or 8 8 8 7 6.

The same thing for LPs.
We already know that 4 7 is a 2LP.
Why not for 4 6 or 5 5 as well? They are currently 1LPs.
I mean what is the difference between a 2LP 5 6 6 6 6 and a 1LP 4 6 9 9 9?
Why not keep the 1LP as intended? Just 4 4 or 4 5. That's it. Let the 4 6 and 5 5 combinations turn into 2LPs.
Just a simple IMO, there is absolutely no difference between 2LP 5 6 6 6 6 and 1LP 4 6 6 6 6. I hope all sees that.
This way 2LP would be between 4 6 or 5 5 and 6 6 or 5 7 or 4 8.

Meanwhile, introduce 3LP starting from 13 balls.
3LP 6 7 or 5 8 or 4 9.


I know it sounds very weird for people who haven't seen weird players.

Let's s say you have an extreme player, like 10 10 10 10 6 as his best skills.
Currently, 10 10 10 9 7 is a 4HP player.
A player with 4 tens and all the other skills at 6 is a total enigma for me. Is it 4HP 2LP or 3HP 2LP? I don't know yet.
Let's see what kind of player are we talking about.
4HP 10 10 10 10 6 = 46 balls
2LP 6 6 6 6 6 = 30 balls.
Knowing that hockey players have 10 skills, it's a 76 pucks player (probably 4HP) and, knowing that football players have 11 skills, it's an 82 balls players (also probably 4HP).

I think we agree on this one, having 4 tens, but let's take another example.

We've got the maximum 2HP 2LP combination.
2HP 9 8 8 8 8 = 41 balls
2LP 8 8 8 8 8 = 40 balls
It's a 81 pucks hockey player and a 89 balls football player.

If the TA is telling me that the first player is better than the second, then I'm sorry to say that it is not so relevant after all.
The second player in fact a 3HP 3LP player. If the TA is implemented as such, now we have a choice, a real choice.
What do you prefer?
A high HP low LP vs. a medium HP medium LP player.

How do you feel when I'm actually telling you all that many of the discarded 2HP 2LP youths could have been U21 NT players right now?
Do you feel tricked by the TA?
Meanwhile, I see a lot of worthless 4HP 2LP players on the Market.

I hope everybody, including the Crew, actually reads this and the TA will be more helpful than it is today.

I am not looking to see too much into the players' future.

But I am looking for real TA, because when we're discarding good prospects thinking they are poor and we keep poor prospects thinking they are good... Well, I feel tricked.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 12:08

[ARMY]

PS we can actually have 4LPs as well. 4LP 8 8 or 6 9 or 4 10. Currently, 6 9 is 2LP. I'm not sure about 8 8 also being 2LP. I haven't seen a 4 10 LP so far. I believe it doesn't exist.PS we can actually have 4LPs as well.
4LP 8 8 or 6 9 or 4 10.

Currently, 6 9 is 2LP. I'm not sure about 8 8 also being 2LP. I haven't seen a 4 10 LP so far. I believe it doesn't exist.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By brian_mcsnail (RA) - 08-02-2021 12:38

[B&IFF]
President

Personally it’s a SCOUT report and is supposed to be a human. Therefore it should have human error! Be it a bad error of judgment ect. Real Life example: Celtic deemed Andy Robertson not good enough. Andy goes to an Amateur team (Queen’s Park) Andrew then develops in to a world class Left Back and wins the Champions League! Scout’s judgement was wrong! We need these little surprises, be it good or bad! Makes the game interesting and frustrating!Personally it’s a SCOUT report and is supposed to be a human. Therefore it should have human error! Be it a bad error of judgment ect.

Real Life example:
Celtic deemed Andy Robertson not good enough. Andy goes to an Amateur team (Queen’s Park) Andrew then develops in to a world class Left Back and wins the Champions League!

Scout’s judgement was wrong!

We need these little surprises, be it good or bad! Makes the game interesting and frustrating!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 14:19

[ARMY]

Well, in that case, enjoy it as it is! :) I know I am. People think I'm trying to convince you of something. I will stop providing feedback because I think it's more than enough. For e.g the Belgian user Yenscallens123 approached me on MZ chat demanding how I came to this Maths and then blocked me because he didn't like my answers :)) So it's the last time I answer to questions like that on MZ Chat. If you have something to say and it's not private, you can use the Forum. There is no Maths. I just observed. Nothing else. If you ask for player IDs, just look for them on the Transfer Market. Why not viceversa? Why are users like that considering themselves superior? Prove me wrong. You show me a player that contradicts the feedback and you have my sincere applause. CheersWell, in that case, enjoy it as it is! :)

I know I am.

People think I'm trying to convince you of something.
I will stop providing feedback because I think it's more than enough.

For e.g the Belgian user Yenscallens123 approached me on MZ chat demanding how I came to this Maths and then blocked me because he didn't like my answers :))
So it's the last time I answer to questions like that on MZ Chat.
If you have something to say and it's not private, you can use the Forum.
There is no Maths. I just observed. Nothing else.
If you ask for player IDs, just look for them on the Transfer Market.

Why not viceversa? Why are users like that considering themselves superior?

Prove me wrong.

You show me a player that contradicts the feedback and you have my sincere applause.

Cheers

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By yenscallens123 - 08-02-2021 14:52

[BNL]

I did not get any answers, i got a "I'm right and will not listen to you" answer. Hence the block.I did not get any answers, i got a "I'm right and will not listen to you" answer. Hence the block.

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By thendric - 08-02-2021 14:57

[Cracks]

Mihairo, It’s not my style to attack other users publicly. But I tend to interpret your posts as quite arrogant. You’re sticking to the 5 balls theory, when allmost any other user agrees that engerek01’s 4-ball theory is correct in 98% of cases (except 23 balls as 2 Stars, and the none existance of 3 LP stars). Why, stating on your own belief about 5 balls being involved, have discussions and claime to be the only one having all wisdom? You ‘re talking in a pejortive way to others, which I really dislike. That being said, to me the 5-ball theory is just bull.Mihairo,

It’s not my style to attack other users publicly.

But I tend to interpret your posts as quite arrogant.

You’re sticking to the 5 balls theory, when allmost any other user agrees that engerek01’s 4-ball theory is correct in 98% of cases (except 23 balls as 2 Stars, and the none existance of 3 LP stars).

Why, stating on your own belief about 5 balls being involved, have discussions and claime to be the only one having all wisdom?

You ‘re talking in a pejortive way to others, which I really dislike.

That being said, to me the 5-ball theory is just bull.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 15:15

[ARMY]

Thank you, Thendric, for saying it to my face :)) I understand that you came to help your friend. But we're not enemies here. This thread was made by Adrian for us to understand the concept. I thought we are helping each other. There is no 4 balls or 5 balls theory. There are only players. The 25 Year Olds are almost full maxed now. They have TA. You say that you observed thousands of players in total, but I observe hundreds of players on both Transfer Markets every day. It's pure observation, nothing else. No theory whatsoever. I tried to place all the skills into five HP and five LP skills. That's it. There is an 11th skill for football players in between. Why not try to help each other here, instead of offending somebody who's just trying to help the Community? I never said that. Show me I said it. All I said is "I don't care" about theories. It's plain simple feedback. If you wish to talk, really talk about it, I'm easy to find. And if you are nice, I'll unblock you too. I hold no grudges. It was probably a simple misunderstanding. The reason of not providing other users' player IDs is because I don't think it's fair and I don't have their approval. But I can look for examples in my teams (hockey and football). Take care.Thank you, Thendric, for saying it to my face :))
I understand that you came to help your friend.
But we're not enemies here.

This thread was made by Adrian for us to understand the concept.

I thought we are helping each other.

There is no 4 balls or 5 balls theory. There are only players.
The 25 Year Olds are almost full maxed now. They have TA.
You say that you observed thousands of players in total, but I observe hundreds of players on both Transfer Markets every day.

It's pure observation, nothing else. No theory whatsoever.

I tried to place all the skills into five HP and five LP skills. That's it.

There is an 11th skill for football players in between.

Why not try to help each other here, instead of offending somebody who's just trying to help the Community?

yenscallens123 wrote:

I did not get any answers, i got a "I'm right and will not listen to you" answer. Hence the block.

I never said that.
Show me I said it.

All I said is "I don't care" about theories. It's plain simple feedback.

If you wish to talk, really talk about it, I'm easy to find. And if you are nice, I'll unblock you too. I hold no grudges. It was probably a simple misunderstanding.

The reason of not providing other users' player IDs is because I don't think it's fair and I don't have their approval. But I can look for examples in my teams (hockey and football).

Take care.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline (MA) (NC) - 08-02-2021 15:52

[FLUSA]
President

Well, Newells Old Boys which is a football club in Argentina didn't think it was worth it to pay for Messi's growth hormone tratement... so he went elsewhere where they offered him the treatment for free....

brian_mcsnail wrote:

Personally it’s a SCOUT report and is supposed to be a human. Therefore it should have human error! Be it a bad error of judgment ect.

Real Life example:
Celtic deemed Andy Robertson not good enough. Andy goes to an Amateur team (Queen’s Park) Andrew then develops in to a world class Left Back and wins the Champions League!

Scout’s judgement was wrong!

We need these little surprises, be it good or bad! Makes the game interesting and frustrating!

Well, Newells Old Boys which is a football club in Argentina didn't think it was worth it to pay for Messi's growth hormone tratement... so he went elsewhere where they offered him the treatment for free....

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By radu1204 (LA) - 08-02-2021 15:57

[FRF]

Don't want to go into semantics here, but Queen's Park is a professional club. I agree with everything else though.

brian_mcsnail wrote:

Personally it’s a SCOUT report and is supposed to be a human. Therefore it should have human error! Be it a bad error of judgment ect.

Real Life example:
Celtic deemed Andy Robertson not good enough. Andy goes to an Amateur team (Queen’s Park) Andrew then develops in to a world class Left Back and wins the Champions League!

Scout’s judgement was wrong!

We need these little surprises, be it good or bad! Makes the game interesting and frustrating!

Don't want to go into semantics here, but Queen's Park is a professional club. I agree with everything else though.

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

By yenscallens123 - 08-02-2021 16:05

[BNL]

You are just telling nonsense theories here. Until date, after almost two years, this is still the uncontested theory; HP4 37 and up for 4 best skills HP3 33-36 For 4 best skills HP2 24-32 For 4 best skills HP1 max 23 for 4 best skills LP1 max 23 or 24 LP2 everything more than LP1. there is no LP3-4. Please come with actual proof of players once u discover something out of the ordinary. That is all I was asking. But you didn't have any.

mihairo wrote:

Thank you, Thendric, for saying it to my face :))
I understand that you came to help your friend.
But we're not enemies here.

This thread was made by Adrian for us to understand the concept.

I thought we are helping each other.

There is no 4 balls or 5 balls theory. There are only players.
The 25 Year Olds are almost full maxed now. They have TA.
You say that you observed thousands of players in total, but I observe hundreds of players on both Transfer Markets every day.

It's pure observation, nothing else. No theory whatsoever.

I tried to place all the skills into five HP and five LP skills. That's it.

There is an 11th skill for football players in between.

Why not try to help each other here, instead of offending somebody who's just trying to help the Community?



I never said that.
Show me I said it.

All I said is "I don't care" about theories. It's plain simple feedback.

If you wish to talk, really talk about it, I'm easy to find. And if you are nice, I'll unblock you too. I hold no grudges. It was probably a simple misunderstanding.

The reason of not providing other users' player IDs is because I don't think it's fair and I don't have their approval. But I can look for examples in my teams (hockey and football).

Take care.

You are just telling nonsense theories here. Until date, after almost two years, this is still the uncontested theory;
HP4 37 and up for 4 best skills
HP3 33-36 For 4 best skills
HP2 24-32 For 4 best skills
HP1 max 23 for 4 best skills

LP1 max 23 or 24
LP2 everything more than LP1. there is no LP3-4.

Please come with actual proof of players once u discover something out of the ordinary. That is all I was asking. But you didn't have any.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By brian_mcsnail (RA) - 08-02-2021 16:50

[B&IFF]
President

Actually you are right but wrong! Queens Park were the worlds oldest amateur team until last season. They Sold Hampeden Park to the SFA for 5m and decided to go full time as they were missing out on player development fees! Robertson and Shankland and a few more... At the time AR played for Queens Park they were amateur!

radu1204 wrote:

Don't want to go into semantics here, but Queen's Park is a professional club. I agree with everything else though.

Actually you are right but wrong!

Queens Park were the worlds oldest amateur team until last season. They Sold Hampeden Park to the SFA for 5m and decided to go full time as they were missing out on player development fees! Robertson and Shankland and a few more...

At the time AR played for Queens Park they were amateur!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 17:00

[ARMY]

Actually, there are no 1HP players. They were removed from the game. 2HP 9 8 8 8 = 33 balls. So the 4 balls "theory" is not 100% accurate. But Engerek01 did put a lot of work into it, so he helped us all. We are grateful for his work. I saw an U21 NT Player in Finland. He was a 2HP 9 8 and a 2LP X 8. You do the Maths. He was on the Transfer Market 1-2 seasons ago, so he's 22-23 yo now. I saw 4 nines on both 3HP and 4HP. This is the fact that made me look for the 5th skill to see if it helps. It turned out that eventually I saw 5 nines on both 4HP and 3HP. Maybe there is a sixth 9 that makes the difference and the HPs and LPs are more connected than we might think. Maybe we'll find a 3HP 10 10 9 8 or a 3HP 9 9 7 7. We also see a lot of 2LP 5 6 6 6 players, just as 1LP 4 6 6 7. So, I really don't see the difference. We don't really know everything so far, but time will tell.Actually, there are no 1HP players. They were removed from the game.

2HP 9 8 8 8 = 33 balls. So the 4 balls "theory" is not 100% accurate. But Engerek01 did put a lot of work into it, so he helped us all. We are grateful for his work.
I saw an U21 NT Player in Finland. He was a 2HP 9 8 and a 2LP X 8. You do the Maths.
He was on the Transfer Market 1-2 seasons ago, so he's 22-23 yo now.

I saw 4 nines on both 3HP and 4HP. This is the fact that made me look for the 5th skill to see if it helps. It turned out that eventually I saw 5 nines on both 4HP and 3HP. Maybe there is a sixth 9 that makes the difference and the HPs and LPs are more connected than we might think.

Maybe we'll find a 3HP 10 10 9 8 or a 3HP 9 9 7 7.
We also see a lot of 2LP 5 6 6 6 players, just as 1LP 4 6 6 7. So, I really don't see the difference.
We don't really know everything so far, but time will tell.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 17:12

[ARMY]

And PS. Read the Forum rules before you start offending people. Keep in mind that this is a written environment and not every user is English native speaker. Maybe his intentions are not to offend anybody and you misunderstood what he was trying to say or he didn't say it properly. Enough is enough...And PS.

Read the Forum rules before you start offending people.

Keep in mind that this is a written environment and not every user is English native speaker.
Maybe his intentions are not to offend anybody and you misunderstood what he was trying to say or he didn't say it properly.

Enough is enough...

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

By kostrzak16 - 08-02-2021 18:39

@yenscallens123 Just ignore his posts :) He keeps repeating that he saw 4HP with both HP skills at 9 or 1 LP with 5+6 and that it is easy to find such on Transfer List even though no one (except him) managed to find such player in last 2 years. Maybe he plays different game I don't know :)@yenscallens123

Just ignore his posts :) He keeps repeating that he saw 4HP with both HP skills at 9 or 1 LP with 5+6 and that it is easy to find such on Transfer List even though no one (except him) managed to find such player in last 2 years. Maybe he plays different game I don't know :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By radu1204 (LA) - 08-02-2021 19:26

[FRF]

That is a cool fact, didn't know about it. Learned something new today.

brian_mcsnail wrote:

Actually you are right but wrong!

Queens Park were the worlds oldest amateur team until last season. They Sold Hampeden Park to the SFA for 5m and decided to go full time as they were missing out on player development fees! Robertson and Shankland and a few more...

At the time AR played for Queens Park they were amateur!

That is a cool fact, didn't know about it. Learned something new today.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By brian_mcsnail (RA) - 08-02-2021 19:45

[B&IFF]
President

It’s why Andy Robertson’s rise is significant. Truly an amazing story! TBH I thought you may have got Queens Park Rangers and Queens Park mixed up! Another interesting fact - Queens Park has reached TWO English FA Cup finals!It’s why Andy Robertson’s rise is significant. Truly an amazing story! TBH I thought you may have got Queens Park Rangers and Queens Park mixed up!

Another interesting fact - Queens Park has reached TWO English FA Cup finals!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 08-02-2021 20:56

[ARMY]

@Kostrzak16, before being rude about it, read the posts of the other person who you seem to agree with. He says that a 2LP 5 6 6 6 doesn't exist, while you say 1LP 5 6 6 6 doesn't exist. At least one of you is correct. I let you decide who.@Kostrzak16, before being rude about it, read the posts of the other person who you seem to agree with.
He says that a 2LP 5 6 6 6 doesn't exist, while you say 1LP 5 6 6 6 doesn't exist.
At least one of you is correct. I let you decide who.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 09-02-2021 18:46

[POLSKA]

OMG too much maths in this topic I get a headache :D The one solution would be to remove the potential tool and bring the fun back :D. When the youths were "unknown" until the 1st max. These days we are like jumping into the future 😎😎😎 The most thing that annoys me is when I see a great youth he has like 3 or 4 on some balls already and then 1 low potential on speed or inteligence 🤔 -------------------------- [hpl=30538479] Sorry for talking about other sport but that's the example....Look at this player in hockey. He is 1 low on keeping and shoot, but all he is maxed at the moment is power 9! I see [b]6 high skills here[/b] as he is 3hp. Power, Stamina, Checking, Quickness, Skating and also the inteligence (it's still 2 only but that's his HIGH POTENTIAL).OMG too much maths in this topic I get a headache :D

The one solution would be to remove the potential tool and bring the fun back :D. When the youths were "unknown" until the 1st max. These days we are like jumping into the future 😎😎😎

The most thing that annoys me is when I see a great youth he has like 3 or 4 on some balls already and then 1 low potential on speed or inteligence 🤔

--------------------------

Beltany Robinson

Age: 22

FormFo					(9)
Play IntelligencePI					(2)
PowerPw					(9)
SkatingSk					(7)
PassingPa					(3)
QuicknessQu					(7)
ShootingSh					(3)
KeepingKe					(2)
Puck ControlPC					(3)
CheckingCh					(8)
StaminaSt					(6)
Total Skill Pucks					50

Sorry for talking about other sport but that's the example....Look at this player in hockey. He is 1 low on keeping and shoot, but all he is maxed at the moment is power 9!

I see 6 high skills here as he is 3hp.

Power, Stamina, Checking, Quickness, Skating and also the inteligence (it's still 2 only but that's his HIGH POTENTIAL).

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline (MA) (NC) - 09-02-2021 20:32

[FLUSA]
President

+1 , I hate the new scout system, it took away all the enjoyment I had of training youths to the point I'm not even paying attention to my youngsters now, I forget to train them, send them to camp and it's because unless is a 4/2 or a 3/2 with a good scout it's pointless to invest any time or money on the player as people don't pay for skills on the market, they pay for players with a good scout & no risk so basically, all you can do this days is just keep swapping and swapping players until you get one with a good scout, it's all pure luck and zero skill and I have no luck, got just one 4/2 out of about a 100 players and he went on to max at 7 stamina.

lukaszsz182 wrote:

OMG too much maths in this topic I get a headache :D

The one solution would be to remove the potential tool and bring the fun back :D. When the youths were "unknown" until the 1st max. These days we are like jumping into the future 😎😎😎

+1 , I hate the new scout system, it took away all the enjoyment I had of training youths to the point I'm not even paying attention to my youngsters now, I forget to train them, send them to camp and it's because unless is a 4/2 or a 3/2 with a good scout it's pointless to invest any time or money on the player as people don't pay for skills on the market, they pay for players with a good scout & no risk so basically, all you can do this days is just keep swapping and swapping players until you get one with a good scout, it's all pure luck and zero skill and I have no luck, got just one 4/2 out of about a 100 players and he went on to max at 7 stamina.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline (MA) (NC) - 09-02-2021 20:35

[FLUSA]
President

Hockey is a bit different, you need a combination of power + 2/3 skills to have a solid player, skills like Pi are not a deal breaker as in football, not even low stamina is a deal breaker, also the fact that there is no experience helps a lot, you can have a good youth with basic skills playing on your main team at a very young age.

lukaszsz182 wrote:

I see 6 high skills here as he is 3hp.

Power, Stamina, Checking, Quickness, Skating and also the inteligence (it's still 2 only but that's his HIGH POTENTIAL).

Hockey is a bit different, you need a combination of power + 2/3 skills to have a solid player, skills like Pi are not a deal breaker as in football, not even low stamina is a deal breaker, also the fact that there is no experience helps a lot, you can have a good youth with basic skills playing on your main team at a very young age.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 09-02-2021 20:52

[POLSKA]

I know this, I play hockey for a long time :D. I just wanted to say that everyone talks about 5 combination of skills per high/low, and in this particular player it looks like he has 6 HP skills already without block yet. One low should block him on something by now. It shows maybe sometimes looking at the high/low could be misleading.

darkline wrote:

Hockey is a bit different, you need a combination of power + 2/3 skills to have a solid player, skills like Pi are not a deal breaker as in football, not even low stamina is a deal breaker, also the fact that there is no experience helps a lot, you can have a good youth with basic skills playing on your main team at a very young age.

I know this, I play hockey for a long time :D. I just wanted to say that everyone talks about 5 combination of skills per high/low, and in this particular player it looks like he has 6 HP skills already without block yet. One low should block him on something by now. It shows maybe sometimes looking at the high/low could be misleading.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 09-02-2021 20:58

[POLSKA]

Excatly. People are paying for "hope" on the market :D if he is ''green" ,skills not maxed then the price is in it. This swapping is also mad, just waiting for a swap and prying to get a good potential one. Basically we only train players now with good potential, killed the fun completely. However I still kind of stick with the old school training and sometimes completely ignore the ''stars'' when I see a youth that have nice few balls when he is 16.

darkline wrote:

+1 , I hate the new scout system, it took away all the enjoyment I had of training youths to the point I'm not even paying attention to my youngsters now, I forget to train them, send them to camp and it's because unless is a 4/2 or a 3/2 with a good scout it's pointless to invest any time or money on the player as people don't pay for skills on the market, they pay for players with a good scout & no risk so basically, all you can do this days is just keep swapping and swapping players until you get one with a good scout, it's all pure luck and zero skill and I have no luck, got just one 4/2 out of about a 100 players and he went on to max at 7 stamina.

Excatly. People are paying for "hope" on the market :D if he is ''green" ,skills not maxed then the price is in it.

This swapping is also mad, just waiting for a swap and prying to get a good potential one.

Basically we only train players now with good potential, killed the fun completely. However I still kind of stick with the old school training and sometimes completely ignore the ''stars'' when I see a youth that have nice few balls when he is 16.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline (MA) (NC) - 09-02-2021 22:16

[FLUSA]
President

Btw, my 2HP/2LP (keeping/AP) striker just trained his 7th heading and it's going for the 8th... will send him to TC again this season I guess... [fpl=212595302] So that kind of shows that even a crappy 2LP/2HP can be a good player, without the scout this player would be worth good money, with the 2LP/2HP even if he could fetch good money due to U21 competitions, he's probably worth 10 times less than if the scout report didn't exist. Btw, I usually don't train this players but wanted to experiment a bit since he trained really fast and came with a decent count of ball, I think a 2HP/2LP might be better than a 3HP/1LP skills wise as the 1LP 99% of the time means the player will have some crippling maxings.Btw, my 2HP/2LP (keeping/AP) striker just trained his 7th heading and it's going for the 8th... will send him to TC again this season I guess...

Neil Vincent

Age: 20

SpeedSp					(8)
StaminaSt					(8)
Play IntelligencePI					(3)
PassingPa					(3)
ShootingSh					(9)
HeadingHe					(7)
KeepingKe					(1)
Ball ControlBC					(8)
TacklingTa					(1)
Aerial PassingAP					(2)
Set PlaysSP					(1)
ExperienceEx					(3)
FormFo					(4)
Total Skill Balls					51

So that kind of shows that even a crappy 2LP/2HP can be a good player, without the scout this player would be worth good money, with the 2LP/2HP even if he could fetch good money due to U21 competitions, he's probably worth 10 times less than if the scout report didn't exist.

Btw, I usually don't train this players but wanted to experiment a bit since he trained really fast and came with a decent count of ball, I think a 2HP/2LP might be better than a 3HP/1LP skills wise as the 1LP 99% of the time means the player will have some crippling maxings.

Edited: 09-02-2021 22:18
Total edits: 1

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By brian_mcsnail (RA) - 09-02-2021 22:25

[B&IFF]
President

[fpl=212473213] This is my 2*2*

Christopher Carmichael

Age: 20

SpeedSp					(8)
StaminaSt					(8)
Play IntelligencePI					(2)
PassingPa					(0)
ShootingSh					(3)
HeadingHe					(4)
KeepingKe					(0)
Ball ControlBC					(4)
TacklingTa					(9)
Aerial PassingAP					(6)
Set PlaysSP					(1)
ExperienceEx					(3)
FormFo					(9)
Total Skill Balls					45

This is my 2*2*

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By chucky06 (FA) - 09-02-2021 22:28

[AUS]
President

I’m a victim of the three 2*2* straight in the bin so I’ll never know. All the current forum topics are in conjunction. The youth system is too accurate now > drives players value up as there’s hardly an risk > why everyone only wants to play Uxx to accumulate money to afford these playersI’m a victim of the three 2*2* straight in the bin so I’ll never know.

All the current forum topics are in conjunction. The youth system is too accurate now > drives players value up as there’s hardly an risk > why everyone only wants to play Uxx to accumulate money to afford these players

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By brian_mcsnail (RA) - 09-02-2021 22:33

[B&IFF]
President

Tbh as Adrian said, I’d prob bin 3* 1* firstTbh as Adrian said, I’d prob bin 3* 1* first

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

By blavitt_jens - 09-02-2021 22:45

[MzSA]

[img]https://i.snipboard.io/P0tuRa.jpg[/img] Speaking of 2*2*, this guy from the the hockey is probably an example of how good they can possibly ever get: 9-8-8-8-8-8-8-8 At least proves that no 5-skill or 6-skill-theories would make 9-8 into HP3.

Speaking of 2*2*, this guy from the the hockey is probably an example of how good they can possibly ever get: 9-8-8-8-8-8-8-8

At least proves that no 5-skill or 6-skill-theories would make 9-8 into HP3.

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