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22-01-2021 05:12
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Season 77 · Week 3 · Day 18
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Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.
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Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
For me is simple, field players with a 3-1 or 4-1 scout unless they come with an exceptional skill combo are not worth training, players with 3-2 or 4-2 are worth training as long as their LP isn't stamina/speed/pi or a poor combo of skills like HP shooting with LP control.

Best thing to do with a 3-1/4-1 player is try to max out four skills and if you're lucky and he goes far, turn him into cash on the market near the end of the season when he's turning 21 y/ol


I agree, but we always have to rely on luck

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
Ultimately you need luck because it you get all crap, no matter what you do you can't transform a crappy player into Messi, but you can improve your chances if you have a plan and know which players to keep and expend time & money on training & which ones to discard. Also, some managers get lucky and still waste their talent, I've seen so many players with great potential on the market ruined to poor training that is insane.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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True specially for young players. When no huge bug is detected and the totsl of balls is OK it is a shame not to give 6 TCs.


Concerning 41* or 31* for a winger for instance you can still have very interesting profiles with only 5 high skills.

Hence, in such a case low 1* maxes found early (ex tackling 5, passing 6, in addition to the 2 lowest skills detected say heading, keeping) let you guess where the high potential skills are or might be.

And that is early enough for retraining if the player starts with a lot of balls and is 4* in training speed.

Then one might transform rather quickly a broken U19 crap into a U21 diamond.

To sum up the weakness of the 1* can be turned into a huge benefit of solving the puzzle faster.

In addition to that, 31* or 41* are much more frequent, so much more come with 20+ balls U16. So this helps for U18 perfs. And U19 you might already know enough to decide if you can continue, rework or eject.

Anyway you never have enough U21 TCs to give to every player that come from the U18s.

So a few 41* might be useful. It's rare to have only 42* free of bugs (like hp shooting, lp control) anyway.

A 41* can be as high as XXXXXX87644

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
I got this guy I kept as an experiment, gave him a speed/stamina camp on his 1st season as I needed him for U18, then when he got 8 speed & went for his 8th stamina, I decided to give him an extra camp and he's turning out alright despite his low scout.

Neil Vincent

Age: 20

SpeedSpSpeed: 8(8)
StaminaStStamina: 8(8)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 3(3)
PassingPaPassing: 3(3)
ShootingShShooting: 9(9)
HeadingHeHeading: 5(5)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 8(8)
TacklingTaTackling: 1(1)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 2(2)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 1(1)
ExperienceExExperience: 3(3)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    49


It's a 2HP shooting/control and 2LP keeping/AP , his only maxing is speed so far. Still at TC as I sent him on the last day of last season when he was still a youth.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
Ultimately you need luck because it you get all crap, no matter what you do you can't transform a crappy player into Messi, but you can improve your chances if you have a plan and know which players to keep and expend time & money on training & which ones to discard. Also, some managers get lucky and still waste their talent, I've seen so many players with great potential on the market ruined to poor training that is insane.


What do you personally think people should focus on training first with each youth player?

Отн: Youth Potential Tool

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for the 2 stars HP I have a player(numer 20 at my have open it if somebody is ineterested)
he has 2 HP at short pass and tackling - 7 and 10 at them
and 2 LP at header and keeping(2 training speed if it matters)
so he has one 10 ball skill
also he has 2 other skills that maxed at 7 and currently training another to max it
after that will start at the LP skills and will try to maxed him and the rest for the experiment, the strange is that he is 2 HP and have 10 balls skill

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
naskoch wrote:
for the 2 stars HP I have a player(numer 20 at my have open it if somebody is ineterested)
he has 2 HP at short pass and tackling - 7 and 10 at them
and 2 LP at header and keeping(2 training speed if it matters)
so he has one 10 ball skill


That pretty much fits the theory, a 2HP can have 10 on a skill but will max at 7 on the remaining

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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naskoch wrote:
for the 2 stars HP I have a player(numer 20 at my have open it if somebody is ineterested)
he has 2 HP at short pass and tackling - 7 and 10 at them
and 2 LP at header and keeping(2 training speed if it matters)
so he has one 10 ball skill
also he has 2 other skills that maxed at 7 and currently training another to max it
after that will start at the LP skills and will try to maxed him and the rest for the experiment, the strange is that he is 2 HP and have 10 balls skill


It's not a good thing go get a 10 for a 22*. This entails 7 or 6 nearly everywhere. It's maybe more interesting in fact when you get a 8 in both top skills, for instance a huge U21 midfield that will also serve in U23 with 70 balls.

Unless the total ball potential is enormous, it's not worth trying in U18 or U21.

I call them young seniors.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
.., I've seen so many players with great potential on the market ruined to poor training that is insane.


So true ... Just saw a potentially good 323* U19 winger (control, cross ball) very poorly tested. 2 years wasted.

Small nations should have very active NCAs to watch every young player, team by team. He might have been a 98X9 U21 ...

Avoiding these ruined players is a huge mean small nations have to reduce the gap with top nations.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
charlesbee wrote:
So true ... Just saw a potentially good 323* U19 winger (control, cross ball) very poorly tested. 2 years wasted.

Small nations should have very active NCAs to watch every young player, team by team. He might have been a 98X9 U21 ...

Avoiding these ruined players is a huge mean small nations have to reduce the gap with top nations.


That’s all well and good but you can’t force a manager to train their players a certain way. The NC and NCA aren’t the ones paying for their training camps or trying you get their own team promoted in any particular league. Training suggestions are fine but beyond that there’s not a lot you can do.

Отн: Youth Potential Tool

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firts player that I see with LP2 stamina and get 8 balls
his HP is speed/tackling -10/9, so he will not have any other 10 skill right?
Bud Plugge

Age: 24

SpeedSpSpeed: 10(10)
StaminaStStamina: 8(8)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 2(2)
PassingPaPassing: 5(5)
ShootingShShooting: 0(0)
HeadingHeHeading: 2(2)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 8(8)
TacklingTaTackling: 9(9)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 2(2)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 2(2)
ExperienceExExperience: 7(7)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    49

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
naskoch wrote:
firts player that I see with LP2 stamina and get 8 balls
his HP is speed/tackling -10/9, so he will not have any other 10 skill right?
Bud Plugge

Age: 24

SpeedSpSpeed: 10(10)
StaminaStStamina: 8(8)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 2(2)
PassingPaPassing: 5(5)
ShootingShShooting: 0(0)
HeadingHeHeading: 2(2)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 8(8)
TacklingTaTackling: 9(9)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 2(2)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 2(2)
ExperienceExExperience: 7(7)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    49


Correct- he cannot have any other 10 skills. He will only have 9, 8 or 7 skills. It’s a shame he’s so poorly developed and trained.
Edited: 24-10-2020 11:54
Total edits: 1

Отн: Youth Potential Tool

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he will not have 7 at other skill as his LP skill is 8, so 8 will be the lowest of the rest of the skills(excluding the other LP skill - set plays)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
naskoch wrote:
he will not have 7 at other skill as his LP skill is 8, so 8 will be the lowest of the rest of the skills(excluding the other LP skill - set plays)


Yes sorry I didn’t make that clear. His set-plays are likely to be 7 but could be 8 (his other LP)and all other skills 8/9’s

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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chucky06 wrote:
Yes sorry I didn’t make that clear. His set-plays are likely to be 7 but could be 8 (his other LP)and all other skills 8/9’s


Don't understand why you think it's likely to be 7? Could be anything between 4 and 8 in my view. Not that it matters THAT much 🤷🏼

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
nomers wrote:
Don't understand why you think it's likely to be 7? Could be anything between 4 and 8 in my view. Not that it matters THAT much 🤷🏼


I thought LP skills were always the same or only one ball less?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
chucky06 wrote:
I thought LP skills were always the same or only one ball less?


Nop, his other LP could be 4, nothing prevents that from happening.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
darkline wrote:
Nop, his other LP could be 4, nothing prevents that from happening.


Learning all the time 👌

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[MZUSA]
President
I'm curious, is the player being discussed a 4H/2L or 3H/2L player? Just looking for an additional piece to the puzzle.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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tree_amigos wrote:
I'm curious, is the player being discussed a 4H/2L or 3H/2L player? Just looking for an additional piece to the puzzle.


Too little information, could be both.

Needs two more 9-ball skills to be a 4* HP though (10-9-9-9). (10-9-9-8) or worse would be a 3*.

Отн: Youth Potential Tool

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tree_amigos wrote:
I'm curious, is the player being discussed a 4H/2L or 3H/2L player? Just looking for an additional piece to the puzzle.


4HP 2 LP

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[MZUSA]
President
thank you

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[王者归来]
President
I found that a hockey player 30010327 has LP2-power and Quickness. And the quickness is 7 and power is 9 maxed. God!! weak potential is 9!! In the 4 items theory, the weak potential of this player is at least 7999=34 balls, 34 balls should be in the 3 star range, but this player is still 2 star weak potential. Is the hockey rule different from soccer rule? Or the 3 star weak potential has other condition should be meet?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[王者归来]
President

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
Wow, I had to check him out! Every thing else will max 9 and 10!!!

Ant: Youth Potential Tool

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Did they adjust the youth potentials AGAIN? We (group of belgian managers) all seem to get really bad youth this morning..

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
yenscallens123 wrote:
Did they adjust the youth potentials AGAIN? We (group of belgian managers) all seem to get really bad youth this morning..


10 new youth for me and not one 4HP players but my expectations are always low with new youth

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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chucky06 wrote:
10 new youth for me and not one 4HP players but my expectations are always low with new youth


Since I've been back in the game (last 3 seasons), have found I tend to get my best use from the 9 starting exchanges, and the 3 throughout the season (usually mid to late season).

From season 74-76 I got six 4 stars ( 4amazing/2 elite).

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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1 now aged 19, 3 18, 2 17.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

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Thats quite lucky. I've seen 0 in last 3 seasons but 4 in season 73. Today's juniors are total garbage...

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Just got my 9 youth exchange, only have space for 5 1st years... last youth exchange I get a 4 HP 2 low P 2 YT player, top class talent... high shooting stamina... low speed PI, hoping 7 max at worst, but dont mind a targetman either way :P Got 3 elites as well, so happy with that.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
All my football ones including exchange are/were poor. Has been for a number of seasons.

Hockey I seem to get a better bag!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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All 10 of my new youths this morning had 2 in high potential, though exchanges netted me two youths with 4.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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There is an economic problem, imo.

A lot of not so good youth - OK fine.
Takes time to train good youth - Normal
A lot of new managers with big savings buying a pool of players, grown 4-6 seasons ago is causing a short squeeze on top players and the YPT is squeezing it even harder.

Could we maybe increase the # of youth we can have in our system?

Open the markets so there is no limitation on nationalities (but work permits still apply) and based on country size, we increase the number of youths we can train? If not I fear U21's National Teams trophies will go to big countries only.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
thegivike wrote:
There is an economic problem, imo.

A lot of not so good youth - OK fine.
Takes time to train good youth - Normal
A lot of new managers with big savings buying a pool of players, grown 4-6 seasons ago is causing a short squeeze on top players and the YPT is squeezing it even harder.

Could we maybe increase the # of youth we can have in our system?

Open the markets so there is no limitation on nationalities (but work permits still apply) and based on country size, we increase the number of youths we can train? If not I fear U21's National Teams trophies will go to big countries only.


If you opened the market up the whole national competition would be a mute point. No point even having international competitions.

I don’t dislike the idea though of opening the transfer market up completely and disregarding where players are from. This would really allow teams from smaller countries the same benefit of bigger countries that have everything in their favour currently.

There would still need to be encouragement for team to have home grown talent in their teams so I agree work permits should still be in place for any foreign player and maybe even increase them slightly.

Not sure about increasing the amount of youths though. Opening the transfer market up completely would make international cups far less prestige and it wouldn’t really matter which country wins at U21 level

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
From TZ Sweden interview with Crew, it sounds like the market will be opened up in 2021.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
brian_mcsnail wrote:
From TZ Sweden interview with Crew, it sounds like the market will be opened up in 2021.


I’ve heard about the interview but was trying to find the translation somewhere. Things like that should be shared in all communities as it’s things like that would excite managers and potential keep people playing. Also could have a return of old users to see what it’s like. More transparency from the crew is paramount

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
I just google translated it! I understood the jist! 👍🤣

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
How often do you pick up suggestions from users and what does the process look like in that case? How much is the users' suggestions considered / prioritized?

Most of the features we implement have at some point been written as suggestions in any forum. For many reasons, not all proposals are implemented. One reason is that many proposals are in direct opposition to each other. Some suggestions are difficult to implement because it affects the balance of the game. On the other hand, I think it is very good that proposals are written, as it gives us a user perspective. The most important perspective!

I am soon entering my 10th year at MZ and I am still June compared to many users. Although I know more than most about how MZ works when you "lift the hood", it is invaluable to get an insight into how you look at different features.

How do you see the future of the transfer, do you have any plans to ex. change the number of foreigners?

Yes we have. I believe in a more open transfer market and I think it would benefit all countries, regardless of size. Without saying too much, I think there will be changes in the transfer in 2021.

Are there any more things you are working on right now (that you can talk about)?

In addition to the mutual function, we are working on another thing that I hope will be fun. Unfortunately, can not say much more than that.

What are your 2021 goals when it comes to Managerzone's development?

I hope ManagerZone continues to grow. 2020 has been a strange year but MZ has increased a bit in the number of active users compared to 2019 and I hope that trend continues. I also think we will see a more open transfer market and I think things will happen with the training and training camps. I can not say more than that right now. 2021 is the 20th year MZ has existed, so expect that the year will be marked by it in several ways!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Look guys, my main point is not about opening the markets. (I mentioned it because it was also in our countries' zone.

BUT give us more youth !!!! Compare the Uxx national teams. And the returning managers are great but the economic problem is insane. If we didn't have YPT, these returning managers would be distributing the cash amongst us more as the risks cannot me measured. Now they can, hence the squeeze.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
First and foremost it was you who mentioned open market. Therefore, I gave you a bit of news on that front.

Personally I don’t think giving more youth players is worth while. What I would like is that they can play during training camps!

Another idea is if/when markets are open each team gets a small % of youth coming from overseas. Aka 10% of players in youth will be foreign. This gives smaller nations a chance to have more players.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Hello.
I see 2 things here.
1. We need more youths.
2. We need the players in TCs playing for our teams.

Let's talk about them.

1. We need more youths.
I agree.
What we also need is more reserves on the bench.
I think it can be done.

2. We need the players in TCs playing for our teams.
Well this is very debatable.
When TC was invented, like 2 decades ago, you had a choice: you want performance or you want better players? TC was a good way to balance the odds. But now I'm not sure of that anymore. The teams have improved so much during this time and we can't actually say that there are teams who dominate their opponents. There are a lot of good teams at any level - seniors, U23, U21 and U18.
Even having your best team on the field is not a guarantee you will get the trophies you reach for. Now TCs make it even harder to have a competitive team during the season.
But the question remains. If you are able to play your players even if you send them to TC, how are you going to squeeze 23 youths in 16 spots?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
mihairo wrote:
how are you going to squeeze 23 youths in 16 spots?


How are you going to squeeze 30/40 youths in 23 spots?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
*16 spots

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I don't understand. Why did you just repeat what I said?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
You stated that we need more tactical spots as you can’t fit 23 in to 16. However, you also want to increase the amount of youths. So I ask the question if we increase the amount of youths to say 30, how do you fit them in to team of 11 + 7 subs (18)
Your points contradict each other.

However, if we keep the 23 youths and they can play during TC this means you can have a full bench and mitigates suspensions.

I think there has to be compromise.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Exactly.
There are 2 different issues posted on the thread.
One excludes the other.
If we want more youths, we need more TC spots, because we can't play them all.
If we want to play with all our players, including the ones in the TCs, I don't see a solution.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
The issue is bigger then youth. The game has put too much emphasis on youth leagues and not enough of senior leagues. Senior leagues should be more prestigious and what every manager wants to win but too many people want to just play youth leagues. That’s what needs changing

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
But MZ makes money on youth leagues and nothing on senior.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Opening markets for all will allow more managers to get more foreigners to play Uxx which could mean a higher participation and thus more income for MZ. But this can only be achieved if the supply of players is higher.

I don't mind keeping the TC count the way it is, it forces you to make choices and making choices are part of the game. Imo, it would also force people to get more players compensate the ones gone to a TC.

Right now, the problem is supply and demand. It's not all bad and could be temporary. However, increasing the limit for youth by 3 for all would make an impact alrdy and requires no development work.

As I mentioned, I prefer to apply the work permit regional structure to give more youths to smaller regions.
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