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23-04-2021 07:54
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Season 78 · Week 3 · Day 18
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Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.
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Re: Youth Potential Tool

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I personally think 2/2 is better than 3/1.

Here is example of my 2 high and 1 low potential.. low on inteligence and control. I'm keeping him for the fun. Probably not a chence for 6 on inteligence...

Blamhac Benson

Age: 21

SpeedSpSpeed: 8(8)
StaminaStStamina: 9(9)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 5(5)
PassingPaPassing: 2(2)
ShootingShShooting: 1(1)
HeadingHeHeading: 3(3)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 2(2)
TacklingTaTackling: 8(8)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 8(8)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 2(2)
ExperienceExExperience: 5(5)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    49

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
lukaszsz182 wrote:
I personally think 2/2 is better than 3/1.


The problem with 3/1 players is that the 3 doesn't really mean it's going to have lots of skills with 9s/10s but the 1LP basically means he'll have very few balls on multiple skills and there's always something that ruins the player, for example I had a 4/1 in this case, he went on to get 9s/10s on shooting/speed/stamina/control but then he maxed out at 5 Pi and his LP was something like tacking, keeping... and it's the same with 95% of the players with 1 LP, they always have at least one crippling maxing so 1LP are always no good IMO.

With 2/2 players I guess odds are against you, but at least there's always a chance that you can train him up to be a decent player if he gets some speed/stamina and his HP is on a useful skill like shooting/tackling.

In any case, I only train 3/2 players and 4/2 players and now due to lack of decent talent despite swapping players like crazy over 3 seasons, I'm taking a chance on a few 2/2 players though like I said, not paying much attention to youth training this days, just swapping & swapping until I get a player with a decent scout which unfortunately is all that matters.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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On training I usually look at the combination of skills as being the determining factor rather than the star ratings. The only no brainer decision I think is to always train up a 4/2, even if strengths are Heading and Set Plays (I have such a player, fortunately one of his weaknesses is keeping).

I was looking back at the original threads and, well for one thing we all should put great faith in darklines ability to predict the future lol.

I don't think we can do anything now, but knowing only one weakness would greatly increase the guesswork involved.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Hello everybody!

I want to personally thank @Blavitt_jens for showing us what I've been saying since the TA was implemented.

This kind of 2HP 2LP player is better than a quarter of the 4HP 2LP players out there.

Maybe he's not so decisive for Sweden, but for small countries this could be a superstar.
We rarely keep 2HP players and we reject possible 2HP stars from our Academies because of having poor TAs.

If people think I'm arrogant for taking my time to help other people understand this new concept, then I must be arrogant, right?

If I'm arrogant, then how would you call somebody who's accusing somebody else for lying without any proof?

It's no theory or Maths, it's just simple observation without leaving any stone unturned.

Since we've never seen a 2HP 9 9 so far, it means that the lowest 3HP is 9 9 7 7 etc.

So, I believe I'm more than pertinent when I say that a 2HP with one 9 and lots of eights is by far better than a 3HP with two nines and a few sevens.

Thank you again, Blavitt_jens.

Best regards.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
I really think the range for HP/LP should be handled different... right now and for practical purposes, the only options for LP are 1 or 2 stars, for HP is 2 to 4

It'll be a lot more intriguing and better if LP & HP where calculated different and we would get the whole one to four star range for both.

For example, it would be a lot more intriguing if we could get a 2 HP & 4 LP player, that could be a guy that might not get very high on the HP skills but his 4 stars LP might mean that you might have an all around good player with no obvious weakness... but as it is, the system for youth potential is a bit boring


darkline wrote:
For a lot of people it was like rolling the dice as the information wasn't clear, it was harder to interpret the data but I could gather information very early on the player's career and swap players that will most likely maxout on a critical skill without wasting time training, just to prove what I say right now I have 7 players product of my youth academy on the National Team and a few more should make it next season.

I know how to read & interpret the info you get from this scout, it's fairly easy really, but to achieve the same results it takes me longer than before & I end up wasting more time, therefore investing more resources & producing less good players. Also, the way this tool works is not compatible with my way of training youths for U18 competitions.

Anyway, the point is, why put up to 4 stars at LP if a player can only be 2 LP? Why put 1 star HP as an option if no 1 HP player exist? Is just pointless and I'd like players to show the full range of potential.


mihairo wrote:
TA is much better than YTC, no doubt about it.
But when there is a big chance that 1LP is similar to 2LP and there is no 3LP, the information becomes irrelevant.


mihairo wrote:
This is what I wrote 4 months ago.
If the assumptions about the TA were correct, I go even further.

Let's take a 2HP 9 8 and 2LP 8 8 player.
This player can become a star for an U21 National Team, but there are very high chances he will be discarded by the owner.
I find this a problem.


kostrzak16 wrote:
Yeah but don't you think something like 3 LP would be too much information ? Now when you have a player 4 HP shot+bc but 2 LP in stamina you can take a risk and hope for that (1-2% ?) chance that he will have at least 7 there. Players with 3 LP (minimum 7 in one of 2 skills) would be insta pick 90% of time. At least I would keep such players even with 2 HP.


mihairo wrote:
I'm not talking about risks or taking chances.
I'm talking about not losing this kind of players.
Let me tell you a little story.
The original TA had a 3 star system.
And all the issue started from all 8 skill players.
They were 3HP 3LP in that system.
So the TA information became very vague. If I had a maximum HP with a maximum LP and the skills turned out to be 8 - I would have been tricked.
So we all agreed that the 4th star is needed to separate 9-10 skillers from 8 skillers.
I don't know what happened on the way because 9-10 skillers became 4 stars and 3 stars - meanwhile the all 8 skillers who should have been 3 stars skillers became 2 stars.

And to understand my point of view - we all have or had players rated 4HP 2LP and even more players 4HP 1LP who turned out to be weaker than 2HP 8 skillers.
That's what I'm actually talking about.
So what's the problem if an all 8 skiller is rated 3HP 3LP?


Quo erat demonstrandum

Thank you for your patience.

I really hope the Crew reads this, because in turned out we ended up with a worse system than the 3 stars system.

3 types of HP
2 types of LP

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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PS: This is a conversation dating back in October 2019.

TA was reviewed, but only the Training Speed was updated since then.

No changes actually made in the 4 stars system.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
mihairo wrote:
PS: This is a conversation dating back in October 2019.

TA was reviewed, but only the Training Speed was updated since then.

No changes actually made in the 4 stars system.


It’s a better youth system as it’s less of a gamble with players and maxings but that’s also why good players and especially young players sell for so much. Was it better for the game, yes and no.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[B&IFF]
President
Personally I don’t think the scout report should go this the player when sold!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
brian_mcsnail wrote:
Personally I don’t think the scout report should go this the player when sold!


If that would be the case I think it should then need to be paid for when it’s first scouted. I think it might just open a whole avenue of selling players without them and managers asking sellers and get dishonest information or selling between same country or even cheating lore prevalent

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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brian_mcsnail wrote:
Personally I don’t think the scout report should go this the player when sold!


Kind of agree. We are playing ''fairy'' when training and then when buying I CAN SEE THE FUTURE !!!!!.

Training graph should be enogh. Sick of this predictable way of MZ is going.

When showing the potential at the market we are making it as easy as possible for all managers. Where is the little risk, a little emotions?

What is the next step? Maybe an option to see how many balls he will have?

It's all going into this direction. Why crew came up with this idea to change tha training system? It was all right before since ages...

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
brian_mcsnail wrote:
Personally I don’t think the scout report should go this the player when sold!


Unfortunately, hiding the scout report would only cause a major cheating problem, there is just no way around it.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Where can I find the youth potential tool? I'd like to give it a try.

I have a player with HP of 2 on Passing and Heading. He now has 9 Passing. His LP is 2 on Set Plays and Keeping (Dean Tabb, number 17 in my team). Strange player but I quite like him now!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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gregkot wrote:
Where can I find the youth potential tool? I'd like to give it a try.

I have a player with HP of 2 on Passing and Heading. He now has 9 Passing. His LP is 2 on Set Plays and Keeping (Dean Tabb, number 17 in my team). Strange player but I quite like him now!


Hold on, is the youth potential tool... the scout report? I was thinking there was another tool I didn't know about.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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casino44 wrote:
I have a player who I think does not align with the notion that 2* means that a player should at least get 24 balls on its 4 weakest skills.

Stevie Gee

Age: 23

SpeedSpSpeed: 9(9)
StaminaStStamina: 9(9)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 5(5)
PassingPaPassing: 10(10)
ShootingShShooting: 9(9)
HeadingHeHeading: 0(0)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 6(6)
TacklingTaTackling: 5(5)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 6(6)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 0(0)
ExperienceExExperience: 6(6)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    60


4* HP PI/Pass, 2* LP Keep/Tack. He's maxed at BC, Tackling and AP, and since Keeping is an LP it should not be able to go further than 6. But that would mean the 4 weakest skills of this player amount to a total of 23 balls..

Any thoughts on this?


You just proved the theory to be false.

Thanks, you just confirm what I knew 12 months ago.

IMHO he is now certain to be great in play intelligence, heading and free kick now.

Don't forget to tell me in 1 or 2 years if I am wrong.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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charlesbee wrote:
You just proved the theory to be false.

Thanks, you just confirm what I knew 12 months ago.

IMHO he is now certain to be great in play intelligence, heading and free kick now.

Don't forget to tell me in 1 or 2 years if I am wrong.


The worst 2LP I've seen was 5 6 6 6 6.
So it is possible that what we knew about 1LP 5 6 to be no longer valid.
Id est, it is possible that 1LP 5 6 no longer exists.
Keep in mind that the TA was reviewed back in 2019-2020, I don't remember exactly when.

We know that 2 things were actually updated:
1. The Training Speed is now more reliable.
2. 1HP players were removed from the game.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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lukaszsz182 wrote:
Kind of agree. We are playing ''fairy'' when training and then when buying I CAN SEE THE FUTURE !!!!!.

Training graph should be enogh. Sick of this predictable way of MZ is going.

When showing the potential at the market we are making it as easy as possible for all managers. Where is the little risk, a little emotions?

What is the next step? Maybe an option to see how many balls he will have?

It's all going into this direction. Why crew came up with this idea to change tha training system? It was all right before since ages...


Hello.

I appreciate your point of view.
But tell me please, do you actually see in your 16 year olds' future?

If you have a 4HP PI stamina, what would it be? He can become a defender, a striker or even a keeper.

If you have a 3HP control cross, what would it be?

Etc.

But having the TA on the TM avoids a lot of cheating.

Just a simple IMHO.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
mihairo wrote:
If you have a 4HP PI stamina, what would it be? He can become a defender, a striker or even a keeper.

If you have a 3HP control cross, what would it be?


Well, that depends on the LP.... LP on control means he won't be a striker, LP on aereal passing means he won't be a defender and LP on speed or stamina means he'll be good as a cook on the hotdog stand.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[MZUSA]
President
darkline wrote:
Well, that depends on the LP.... LP on control means he won't be a striker, LP on aereal passing means he won't be a defender and LP on speed or stamina means he'll be good as a cook on the hotdog stand.


With a 4HP PI he might be better as a manger of the hot dog stand instead of a cook. ☺

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Hi have a question there. Can playr with 4high potential be maxed at two skills at 7? or this x2 seven is conected to hig low potential which is 1LP? He is low on inteligence and passing and high on shoot and head. If them double 7 are high then his other three skills can be 10 10 10?

Enrique Mariano Okaka Chuka

Age: 20

SpeedSpSpeed: 7(7)
StaminaStStamina: 7(7)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 4(4)
PassingPaPassing: 2(2)
ShootingShShooting: 9(9)
HeadingHeHeading: 3(3)
KeepingKeKeeping: 0(0)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 7(7)
TacklingTaTackling: 0(0)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 1(1)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 2(2)
ExperienceExExperience: 3(3)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    42

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Hello.
Being 1LP, you can expect to see some sixes or sevens.
Being 4HP, anything is possible, but 3 tens is not that often as you might think. Most of the 4HP I've seen were 10 9 9 9 players.
Good luck!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[Eesti]
President
mihairo wrote:
Hello.
Being 1LP, you can expect to see some sixes or sevens.
Being 4HP, anything is possible, but 3 tens is not that often as you might think. Most of the 4HP I've seen were 10 9 9 9 players.
Good luck!


Right now there is a guy on market with two 10s and he is 3/1! :P Right now skills are 10 10 9 7 7

Also I track one player who is 3/2 and he is right now 10 10
Edited: 17-02-2021 21:33
Total edits: 2

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Can you please tell us what sport or ID something?
Thank you.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

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mihairo wrote:


Since we've never seen a 2HP 9 9 so far, it means that the lowest 3HP is 9 9 7 7 etc.

Best regards.


Have any HP3 with 9-9-7-7 acually been spotted? Bc as a HP2 can get as good as 8-8-8-9 then HP3 should have one more ball/puck as far as I know. Meaning the worst a HP3 should be able to be is 8-8-9-9.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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We've seen a 3HP maxed at the age of 25 on all the skills except keeping at 9 9 7 7.
It is possible for the keeping skill to reach 8-9.
So, we haven't actually seen a 3HP 9 9 7 7 so far.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[Eesti]
President
mihairo wrote:
Can you please tell us what sport or ID something?
Thank you.


Football
The first one who is 3 HP in speed and a.passing is this one 213837048.
2 LP in stamina and tackling.

I will post the second one after deadline has passed!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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evosa wrote:
Right now there is a guy on market with two 10s and he is 3/1! :P Right now skills are 10 10 9 7 7

Also I track one player who is 3/2 and he is right now 10 10


We've seen 3HP 10 10 8 8, but never 3HP 10 10 9 8.
Of course, we will know better in time.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[Eesti]
President
mihairo wrote:
We've seen 3HP 10 10 8 8, but never 3HP 10 10 9 8.
Of course, we will know better in time.


Thats why I am little bit sceptical about buying him! :P

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[Eesti]
President
mihairo wrote:
Can you please tell us what sport or ID something?
Thank you.


this guy 211891523
Edited: 19-02-2021 20:19
Total edits: 1

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Thank you very much.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Football ID 211351530
2HP with at least one 9 and 4 eights.
I have no interests in this player, or in the owner.
This is one of the main reasons why I never posted IDs, because I don't want to influence the player price in any way.
All I wanted to underline is that 2HP 9 8 8 8 8 are not that rare. Unfortunately, we reject most of these players through Youth Exchange.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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H: ⭐️⭐️ [Bc/Sp]
L: ⭐️[Ke/Pi]
S: ⭐️⭐️⭐️

It’s an old picture from way back before I sold him. Still this player will have at least 6x8balls and 1x9balls.

Отн: Youth Potential Tool

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coachie wrote:


H: ⭐️⭐️ [Bc/Sp]
L: ⭐️[Ke/Pi]
S: ⭐️⭐️⭐️

It’s an old picture from way back before I sold him. Still this player will have at least 6x8balls and 1x9balls.


one of 1000 and this dont change that 2HP players are trash
I will never send a 2HP player at TC even when have free

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
The scout just ruined the market IMO, it doesn't matter if the player is good or bad, people just pay for what the scout says without taking into account that the "potential star" might end up having a critical maxing.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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But that's their problem, Adrian.
I don't have this problem and I guess you don't either. Also any manager who's really understadning this new concept.

And on a personal level, the TA really helps us select better youths to grow in our Academies. What could be better than that?
I mean we're not talking about 6 or 7 year olds. We're talking about 16 year olds. At that age, a young man knows if he should follow a career in football or it's simply not for him. There are other jobs to consider, but not football player :))

So IMO it's not all right to find out that a player is good or not at the age of 25. It's too late. He should already be prepared to enter the field in the top squad at that age.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
Well, in the past I could graduate 2/3 valuable senior players a season and could get good money for most of my graduates, many of my graduates would always end up on the USA NT, despite what most people think the old system wasn't bad, you just had to know how to use the information you were given and you had to actually think and plan to develop good talent.

Now is just a lottery, either you get a 3-2 or 4-2 player or you don't and not only you need a 2LP but if the 2LP skill is stamina, speed or Pi then he's also worthless, or maybe he has a sucky HP/LP combo like HP on shooting but LP on control/heading, that's not good neither so you just have to swap and swap and cross your fingers you'll get lucky. Also, a 1LP is not worth training, surely you can get the 1 in 500 that might turn out not to have a critical maxing but at those odds is not worth my time and effort unless he came as an 16 y/old with at least 24 balls and fast training speed.

In the past you could sell unmaxed graduates that looked good, I kinda knew who had good potential and who didn't, now I'm firing most of my graduates as they are either 1LP or have a poor scout.

I'm not going to lie, youth training is ruined for me and I don't pay much attention to my youth squad anymore as it's a waste of time, I'm thinking about reducing my squad to about 15/16 players as I never get enough good players, in the past my problem was managing the training camps as I just had too many players to send but this past few seasons I always have 6/7 empty places.

Anyway, I get why some people might like it, if you're clueless about training this new scout sorts that out for you with the "training for dummies" system, if you didn't know how to train a youth before and complaining about your poor talent then "training for dummies" solves that problem, you just swap and swap until you get a fine young player and then train him on the skills the scout tells you to, is really a fool proof method. For me is just plain boring, there's no skill involved, no thinking and planning and also no profit to be made on the market unless you hit the jackpot and get a player with a good scout.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[FLUSA]
President
Also, just used my 3 weekly swaps from last Tuesday that I forgot to use, got offered two 2HP/1LP and one 3HP/1LP with LP on speed, guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if lady luck smiles upon me.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
Yeh all the new system has done is taken the skill/planning and strategy out of training youth and inflated the price of any player that has a good scout report.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
My side for example- I haven’t ever cared too much for youth but I’ve made my last 3 U18 National Cup finals and made it to the U18 Top WL. All I’ve been doing is Adrian’s mentioned “training for dummies” and flip players constantly with bad scouts and camp the good ones. Works well for me so far but it’s boring. I also train my youth for future success as a senior player so I can see how people do well if they only focus on youth.

You’re right- It’s pretty boring though.
Edited: 23-02-2021 07:18
Total edits: 1

Отн: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
The scout just ruined the market IMO, it doesn't matter if the player is good or bad, people just pay for what the scout says without taking into account that the "potential star" might end up having a critical maxing.


but the chance 4HP player not to have crotical maxings is much higher than 3HP and 2HP will have it at 99%

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mihairo wrote:
But that's their problem, Adrian.
I don't have this problem and I guess you don't either. Also any manager who's really understadning this new concept.

And on a personal level, the TA really helps us select better youths to grow in our Academies. What could be better than that?
I mean we're not talking about 6 or 7 year olds. We're talking about 16 year olds. At that age, a young man knows if he should follow a career in football or it's simply not for him. There are other jobs to consider, but not football player :))

So IMO it's not all right to find out that a player is good or not at the age of 25. It's too late. He should already be prepared to enter the field in the top squad at that age.


you dont have that problem because your country has lot of people playing and can use the market
in my country the market is 1 mostly 2 pages, sometimes 3 and nothing
4HP player appears 1-2 per season, and if you dont have some good own players you better quit like most do because the best you can do is to buy 11 foreign players and have good team for couple of seasons then no money no players upcoming
the old 10 years rumor said that some countries(where MZ make more profit) have always better chance of good youths and I start to believe it

Отн: Youth Potential Tool

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darkline wrote:
Also, just used my 3 weekly swaps from last Tuesday that I forgot to use, got offered two 2HP/1LP and one 3HP/1LP with LP on speed, guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if lady luck smiles upon me.


for 2 seasons with changing all the youths 3 times, twice had 9 swaps at the beg of season and every week 3 swaps, still waiting to see 4HP player and today changed my last 2HP can you believe it
for sure the next season will stop all CM and tours because no difference if I have 2 or 3 swaps weekly as is all trash(talking for football, because my hockey team is ot the other side but who cares about hockey) and all depends to luck and this is far away from manager game, just gamble
I personaly like the youth potential tool system but must be more balanced to all not just luck

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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Hello.
You can check hockey player 30598288.
His 2LP is 5 X 6 6 6 - almost certain 2LP 5 6 6 6 6.

Since TA was developed, I have to say that most of my youths are good players. But I'm looking for exceptional players for my senior squad. Unfortunately, I can't manage to find such players at the Academy.
It's not as easy at it looks.

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Gabriel-Alejandro ter Averst id: 30010327
Hockey
2LP 7 9

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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My 4 training speed players don't seem to train any faster/better than my other players, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed a similar pattern ?

Like guys with 1 training speed seem slower, but 2/3/4 all seem the same ?

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[王者归来]
President
My s4 player is obviously faster. It is obvious in training camp.

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[ATG]
President
dagriggstar wrote:
My 4 training speed players don't seem to train any faster/better than my other players, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed a similar pattern ?

Like guys with 1 training speed seem slower, but 2/3/4 all seem the same ?


Hi Ryan!

I have noticed that my 2 training speed players are trained slower than my 1 ones... It might be a coincidence, but in my team such cases have been a lot (I am active only in hockey btw)

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[LT-Cm]
President
dagriggstar wrote:
My 4 training speed players don't seem to train any faster/better than my other players, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed a similar pattern ?

Like guys with 1 training speed seem slower, but 2/3/4 all seem the same ?


I have not noticed that but anyway 1 training speed players are training so poor.

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Like of my 18 year olds that have already completed their training camps this season my breakdown is like

S4 -
S3 - 3 players, 54 balls gained, 18 balls gain average
S2 - 1 player, 20 balls gained
S1 - 1 player, 20 balls gained

While I do agree the percentages generally appear higher, like it doesn't seem to translate to actually being any faster.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[AUS]
President
Really depends on the individual. I have 4 speed players who train noticeably fast but than other 4 speed that don’t.

I think it’s definitely not that accurate but more dependent on the individual. What I mean is the difference between the fastest training 4 speed players and slowest is considerable

Re: Youth Potential Tool

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[王者归来]
President
208970555 in the market now. He just has a 9 and others are all 7 or 6. He is at most 10977 player and be a H3 player. This is another example showing that four items theory is not perfect.
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