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29-04-2024 00:51
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Season 90 · Week 4 · Day 28
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Football » English » ManagerZone talk

MZ - The downfall

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[WCE]
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I have always been an advocate for a strong correlation between SOT (shots on target) and result. The logic behind this is that users have a much easier time understanding and accepting a loss if the opponent created more chances. You don't want the game to look like a spreadsheet, so having some results against play is both acceptable and needed in my opinion. An occasional 15-10 = 1-2 is ok. However, 35-5 = 0-0 is not needed. Neither is 18-7 = 5-5(!) or 21-1 = 0-1. Such results make users rage-quit in despair. It shouldn't even happen once in a thousand.

"Apple is like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water and my job is to get the shop pointed in the right direction". This was said by Gil Amelio as he was about to be thrown in favor of Steve Jobs. This quote sticks to my mind when I think of the current development of ManagerZone.

ManagerZone has lost +90% of its userbase during the last 10 years or so. The recent 17th Anniversary Cup had a participation of 8 221, even though it was free to non-CMs. MZ Anniversary Cup 2008 had a participation of 144 637. Of course, a large portion of the 144k of users that signed up for the cup back then, were non-paying users. It does however show how unpopular the game has become. Lets use an optimistic estimation and say that the game now has 15k active users (probably less), and that half of the userbase missed out on the recent free cup. So, 15 000 people in the world are playing ManagerZone today. Is it just in my head, or does this number sound ridiculously low? Nowadays, everybody have Internet. Even a mediocre blog in Norway generates more visits per day than 15k.

I have never understood why certain aspects/features exist in the game today. The form-system for one. You'd be surprised how difficult this is for a new user to understand. And it is also difficult to explain it to them. I have a friend who quit this game years ago because he wasn't able to maintain a good form. A simple solution would have been for Crew to remove the chance of players to become tired.
Another user quit this game when both his strikers broke a leg in the same match. We are talking about +40 day injuries.

If a feature makes 0,1% of the users quit the game, then it should be removed. The leakage has to be fixed! I doubt anybody will quit the game because there aren't enough long-term injuries, or because it has become too easy to manage the form.

Then there is the way deterioration was implemented. You fail to understand your users when you remove balls from their beloved players. Yes, it is a small small fraction of the hole ball, but visually it is 1 ball. Look at the image below for a smoother way of implementing deterioration. I spent 1 calorie coming up with this idea, and it is from the very top of my head. A simple icon that shows how far the deterioration process has come. And voila, we can still compare the skills of players from various era.



This player is fully deteriorated (10 out of 10). As a 32 year old, this icon would be approximately 5 out of 10.

Back to the simulator. Did you know that you can win SOT (shots on target) in 91% of the matches in the top-division of WL, and still get relegated? I won SOT in 20 out of 22 matches, but in 12 of the 20 matches I was robbed. Ergo, in 60%(!) of the matches where I won the SOT, I either lost or drew the game.



In Champions Cup I was knocked out despite winning SOT 18-10. The team who beat me went all the way to the final, where they lost against play. Last season ALL 3 Elite cup-finals went against play. Both in Top Teams Cup, Cup Winners Cup and Champions Cup, the team that had the fewest shots on target won the game. The team that got robbed in Top Teams Cup sold out (Ultra Copos). I was thinking of the same (I was the one who lost the Cup Winners Cup). In U18 NE I managed to draw against the bottom team, despite winning SOT 18-7. The result was 5-5! My 8 ball GK (best I have had in years) with great partials, conceded 5 out of 7 shots.

5 hours ago I lost the final of the Fitness Cup S67 against play aswell. It is interesting, but I doubt I have lost SOT in more than a handful of games this entire season, counting official games. It happened once in the league, once in Victory Cup 2018 (grand final).

Then there is U21 Paraguay. Here there was somewhat poetic justice that they knocked out Sweden. Simulator is a bi-product of Swedish comm... socialism. Points for everybody. An extension of "trophies for everybody" that was implemented a few seasons ago. It seems the current Crew forget that this is a game. You won all your games in 5th division? Sure, here you go, special Elite achievement for you.



If Crew wants less users as a way of reducing work load for their servers and hamsters, then I totally understand why they have created such an unfair simulator. I would however be more than a little bit concerned if I was an investor. I have played a heck of a lot of football manager games, and I have never come close to a match-engine where you can get relegated despite winning SOT in 91% of the games.

Recently there was a significant bump in the cost of PT. You probably have seen a lot of teams that has the username "NO MORE PT FOR MZ". Often written in Spanish. I totally understand the move by Crew, because the expenses remain the same. So when income is reduced as a result of their incompetence and lack of understanding this game, then those few souls who remain in this game has to pay way more to keep this sinking ship heading somewhere, anywhere. After all it is better to sink near the bottom of a coral reef than at 1000 meter depths where your only companions will be jelly fish.

Speaking of 3D. One year, almost to this day, a Crew member wrote the following:
"It's a matter of where we want to prioritize our time and effort. Back in 2000-2010 a 3D was a pretty cool thing for a management game to have, but these days people care less about the glossy surface and more about the depth of content. Developing a state-of-the-art 3D would basically exhaust all our available resources, in order to achieve something that we don't actually think the game really needs."

Fast forward a few months, and Crew could inform the community that all available resources was being exhausted in order to create something that the game didn't really need. 3D in all its glory is up and running again, to the awe of all the investors and 10 managers who watch their games in 3D.



I actually had to limit myself, because there probably is a limit to the amount of text in a post. I had a lot to say about the ultra-boring youth system, the lack of staff, facility, statistics, and how the game feels near identical to the game I started playing in 2003.
Edited: 03-02-2019 05:31
Total edits: 2
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Re: MZ - The downfall

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[WCE]
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powdersnow wrote:
I would also like to point out that we have spent both time and resources on marketing over the last 12 months and have seen a surge in registrations because of it. We are constantly exploring new ways to make MZ more visible on the web and elsewhere.

Was marketing resources being spent domestically?
If so, I hope you didn't spend a lot.



Registration for the National Cup S68 is still open for the next few days, so it is likely Sweden will crawl above 500 participating teams, barely. 495 currently, which is all-time low. The very first edition actually had close to 4k participants (December 2004).

Unless you guys fix the youths system and the simulator, conversion is really gonna suck. The youth system kills new users early on. Those few who endure the worst youth system in any football management game today (that I have come across anyway), is brutally taken care of by the unfair and random simulator once they start competing.

This thread is not sabotage, it is the opposite. You get a lot of information and suggestions from hardcore and loyal members that you can use for free. But you need to have an open mind about the situation and be willing to accept criticism, or nothing me or anybody else write will get through to you. Arrogance is not the correct remedy.

Those of us who had an account here on MZ long before you did, remember how much fun this game used to be when there was 10x more users.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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[Sugar]
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aldebaran wrote:
100% true!


not totally true
I have many things to criticize but to be fair I must say that mobile usage within MZ has become good enough!
I can do everything on mobile.
Even watch games in 2D.
I'm satisfied with that part of the game

Re: MZ - The downfall

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[Sugar]
President
new generations don't like to wait
MZ is a game that you have to have patience
even on transfers
this is not like Hattrick where if you have enough money you can go to the transfer list right now and but 11 players and all of them foreigners and there you go!
It takes some time to come up with a good team that will make you win!
And that's ok for me! That's how it should be! Results take time!
I like 2D and think 3D is very weak and should be forgotten.
Deteriorations? well...I got used to it and understood that the loss is more visual than effective! But I understand that for newbies that is a reason to quit. But newbies that start playing this game buying 29 yo players are using a completely wrong approach because they should only train their youth academy players until they become 21 yo.
This is a game for 30 yo users or more. It's normal that the number of those still playing this game is becoming lower and lower.
I think the core of the game that is : "you must start with youth academy and improving your youth players in order to grow" must always be preserved!
I think the visual part of the game can stick to 2D if 3D is only what has been showned over the years.
I like the game as it is but I understand that this type of game is not appealing to young generation of PES and FIFA.
This is a game for patient users that like to think the game and tactics should be improved allowing some type of lab movements.
Don't mess with the core of the game (training young players to grow) but improve tactics!
That would be my advice.

webunited

Re: MZ - The downfall

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The worst thing in the game is that users keep on breaking the game rules and nobody does anything about it, a petty :(

Abuse Excessive Bid
Ariel Bretal id: 195102356
Player not worth 300.000 GBP , selling for 3.500.000 GBP wtf?

Re: MZ - The downfall

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webunited wrote:
not totally true
I have many things to criticize but to be fair I must say that mobile usage within MZ has become good enough!
I can do everything on mobile.
Even watch games in 2D.
I'm satisfied with that part of the game


yes, but it needs to become better
you need to be able to do your "daily team chores" asap and with fewer clicks as possible

one dreadful example? coaches negotiations! If I manage to lose my mobile connection and come back after 5 minutes the negotiation would be a failure

also I hate to have to go through many pages to just get the info I want

yes they have made good progress on that department but I would love to have things get even better so I would never have to visit MZ through my PC again

Re: MZ - The downfall

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Although I like greek salad ^^, I gotta say this time he is right and yet it's just not going to happen.

It was probably a huge effort on crew's part to get this design going with a focus on mobile so after they are done 4D, they can't justify going for another redesign. I wonder what the next step would be. But since we are talking about this, I gotta say, training and tactics are the hardest for me on the mobile. Training is still doable, but tactics just doesn't work properly like 8/10. I should open a bug post about it, but there is no good kanga joke that goes with that.

I don't expect crew to answer hanz, but from what I have seen, new users joined lately from all over the world, so I assume it was not spend entirely domestically. Also, we do not know when the marketing campaign has started, and as such we cannot justify it with graphs, although it would have been nice.

I had this revelation, that 3D should be only for CM and 2D should be for both free users and CM.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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aemi wrote:
I don't expect crew to answer hanz, but from what I have seen, new users joined lately from all over the world, so I assume it was not spend entirely domestically.

People sign up from all over the world, every day, seven days of the week, 365 days of the year. For 17 years now. The problem is that the conversion is horrible. A very low percentage of these people stick around. Quite a few who does, had an account way back when, thus rejoins mainly for nostalgia. This is true for Norway, so I assume the situation is similar in other countries aswell.

Even if there are more users signing up than usual, which I have seen no evidence of, then this is not shown by actual participants on the forums nor official cups nor on any financial reports. As somebody who works with numbers and statistics on a daily basis through my work as an Excel consultant, I trust raw numbers way more than I trust statements like "from what I have seen..".

The good news is that there are hardly any decline in users either. I think we are more or less at the rock bottom. Those of us still playing this game, will likely do so until we fall into a sinkhole or have any other serious mishap irl. Which basically means that no matter how much this game is being cocked up, there will still be around 6000 participants in the Endurance Cup S100 8 years from now.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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I actually think UI/compatibility on mobile devices is rather good. I have no complaints regarding this, nor that this was prioritized at one point. Once I even pulled off the road to watch a game in 2D, and it worked flawlessly. I even won the game, despite creating more chances than the opponent.

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hanzinho wrote:
People sign up from all over the world, every day, seven days of the week, 365 days of the year. For 17 years now. The problem is that the conversion is horrible. A very low percentage of these people stick around. Quite a few who does, had an account way back when, thus rejoins mainly for nostalgia. This is true for Norway, so I assume the situation is similar in other countries aswell.
/..//


New(?) Greek(?) users sign up too, put them youngsters with potentials in the transfer list, buy them with their main team(s), new-born accounts then go inactive and jammed into lower divs.
Not an achievement to have a...climax upon I would think.

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Having said that, I too acknowledge the fact that the game is functioning far better today than before, has been modernized and even more user friendly, all new characteristics serve a rise of interest, and all those need full employment of company's resources.
When it comes to the actual soul of the game is when you can't help wondering: Is it really worth it?

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hanzinho wrote:
... I even won the game, despite creating more chances than the opponent.


Hehehehe
Harsh!

Re: MZ - The downfall

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zorzyior09 wrote:
New(?) Greek(?) users sign up too, put them youngsters with potentials in the transfer list, buy them with their main team(s), new-born accounts then go inactive and jammed into lower divs.
Not an achievement to have a...climax upon I would think.

Yeah, thats another thing to factor in. Since new teams receive quite a few promising 19 year olds, then it is tempting for cheaters to exploit this situation. Maybe it is these teams aemi and powdersnow are referring to..?

zorzyior09 wrote:
When it comes to the actual soul of the game is when you can't help wondering: Is it really worth it?

I have been on the fence for a few months now. But today I have come to the conclusion that this game is not worth it. Not only that, I doubt it will ever reach a level that I can call acceptable by 2018/2019/2020 standard. Seeing a Crew member being happy with the current situation was one of the final straws for me, not that I ever agreed with anything that guy ever wrote.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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Jeez Hanz, you need to have a dose of the Norvegian housewife. Don't google it.

Powder probably has access to more data, then we have. The only thing you probably ever agree with, is Excel, and you probably don't even like Libre Spreadsheet (if you are familiar).

powdersnow wrote:
Makes me a bit angry actually.


You made him angry, I never knew powder can get angry. You should feel ashamed of yourself and donate some money to his favourite charity. It could be Power Challenge AB. (AB stands for charity).

Re: MZ - The downfall

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aemi wrote:
You made him angry, I never knew powder can get angry.


Re: MZ - The downfall

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Loool ^^^

Re: MZ - The downfall

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[RAF]
President
powdersnow wrote:
Civilu, don't confuse Stillfront with Powerchallenge. We have not created any other games and our focus, since PS was cancelled, has been 100% on ManagerZone. That game you linked is made by another company within the Stillfront group of games (which includes lots of companies). Please don't start false rumors based on guesses and hunches.
[...]
I would also like to point out that we have spent both time and resources on marketing over the last 12 months and have seen a surge in registrations because of it. We are constantly exploring new ways to make MZ more visible on the web and elsewhere.
[...]
Sure, some drama is great to liven up the atmosphere, which is why we let threads like this exist. But wacky, unfounded speculation about the "doom" of MZ, is always a bad thing. Nothing good can come from it, ever, it is just plain sabotage. You can't help wonder what motives people have to act like that. Makes me a bit angry actually.


Powder,
Your message is both correct and wrong but, most of all, I find inappropriate and upsetting coming from YOU because:
- you accuse some of the most respected users in this game (and I mean Hanz or Dark, not myself and the least of all Aemi) for something which is wrong - no one wanted to start nasty rumours but wanted clarifications on publicly available data! Questions worth asking! Ok, you gave it, thanks, but your secondary comments are out of place, imo;
- as for the resources, can you give any examples? Otherwise, it's just words;
- you don't EVER say stuff which translates to "you're lucky we did not put a sock in your mouths" when YOU know and acknowledged it's your fault for not informing communities on where the game is going and what is being done on a larger scale; no one asked you to (ok, we did, but you could have refused claiming it confidential or whatevs) and WE only wanted to know that the product we are constantly buying does not have an expiration date, as we are constantly told (as the official report seems to indicate otherwise);
- you may be upset because the clients are difficult and ask you for more and more stuff but then again, if you don't like being accountable for your actions, then the management position might not be for you. BUT AGAIN, censorship is not the solution (maybe just self-censorship)! Neither is smacking comments because it hurts your feelings being told the blunt truth.

I'm no excel or statistics expert but what I see is a decline in userbase in Romania, with less and less people around. This is visible on a subjective level of appreciation and I would very much like to be proven otherwise by you with some data and not just words (as to no. of users in time, retention stats if any and so on).

Otherwise, it's just like one of the biggest financial crashes in Romania, in the 2000's, when a famous investment fund (actually a national sophisticated Ponzi scheme) was taking people's money under the slogan "Sleep tight, we are watching everything for you!". See the resemblance?

PS for Aemi:
You are sometimes a funny tentative of forum troll but your childish comments are so many times out of place and simply wrong. And you might be comfy in your little green troll world but it's still only in your head. Don't forget that!

And one more thing: the moment you compare your thoughts and ideas with those of Hanz, you become ridiculously ridiculous and the red nose you wear all the time becomes visible to anyone. Maybe you needed to be told this...

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No wonder crew doesn't post that often on this kind of threads, the bashing and "civilized" insulting creates a toxic environment. I would take a guess that they would rather read my low creativity almost funny kangaroo jokes then some posts on the forums directed at them.

I think that the new "chat" feature, which has already been abused by a certain romanian, it's a good reassurance that they are actively developing the game and did not run out of ideas. Yes there may be challenges to which they don't have an answer right now to, like a new sim or porting it to mobile platforms, but I have faith that they are looking at all the options and eventually they will figure out ways to work everything out.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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So Hanz decided to share the balls of his first eleven. I'm not impressed. AT ALL. Just because you assemble an expensive squad doesn't mean you're entitled to win every game in the world league top series and the title as a result. I'm pretty sure other winners are laughing at his over priced almost great team. If he had won the world league top series this post would not exist. And that's a fact. So for this post to have dragged on for three pages boggles me. Here I was expecting to see a team of 10 balls specialists from back to front but that wasn't the case. Ridiculous frankly. Next time I don't win my league match I'll come up with a clever, seemingly well researched post about the downfall of the game lol.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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Would be fun to build a squad with pretty impressive passing across the board making sure that your goalie and strikers are not that great, and then start complaining about the lack of correlation between SOT and your results. Wait, has already been done before. Never mind. On a personal note I would like to say that I really appreciate all the work that has been done to bring 3D back to life. Absolutely vital for me and reason enough to be willing to pay for this game again. Wondering who those 9 other guys are though.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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smaakeloos wrote:
Would be fun to build a squad with pretty impressive passing across the board making sure that your goalie and strikers are not that great

If you are looking for sense in the results/sim in matches at the highest level that goes against play, you will find none.

At senior level I am usually on the receiving end, since it is very rare I get dominated. At Uxx-level though, I receive quite a lot of results I don't deserve. I got dominated in 3 of the last U18 WL matches (Top Division), yet walked away with point(s) from all of them. Earlier today, 1-1 after losing SOT 11-4. In between those results, I dominated a U18 WL game and lost 1-2. Next to no correlation between SOT and result, even at youth level, where the passing skill isn't developed (nor much else for that matter).

The striker I currently have is actually way more efficient than the previous striker I had, despite the previous striker being far better on paper. He has scored 34 goals from the first 7 league games this season (top division). Only 3,82 shots per goal, which is amazing.

The goalie I had first half of previous season was also better on paper than my current goalkeeper, but played horrible.

I checked your trophy cabinet. Zero (!) trophies in 15 years. Yet here you are, with all your infinite MZ wisdom, simply dying to tell me whats what in this game. To use a Norwegian word to describe it: smakløst.

smaakeloos wrote:
Absolutely vital for me and reason enough to be willing to pay for this game again. Wondering who those 9 other guys are though.

I would be the first to admit I was wrong if 3D turns out to be the remedy that will boost this game to old heights. To quote powdersnow: "Back in 2010-2010 a 3D was a pretty cool thing for a management game to have, but these days people care less about the glossy surface and more about the depth of content... developing a state-of-the-art 3D would basically exhaust all our available resources, in order to achieve something that we don't actually think the game really needs."

That one time I agreed with powdersnow. Happy days.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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aemi wrote:
No wonder crew doesn't post that often on this kind of threads

They don't post often, period. Except in this thread, where both aikaik and powdersnow had contributions. Although the latter could do with a basic course in how to talk with customers. I would under no circumstances talk to my customers the way he talks to his.

I used heavy words in the OP. If I had written it in a "kumbaya-manner" it would have gone unnoticed. Fact is, hardly anybody is playing this game any longer. If MZ is a football club, then it is currently playing in the 4th division. We (the supporters) remember when MZ was a real powerhouse, dominating both domestically and internationally. Some of the mistakes done by Crew are blatantly obvious to anybody that has played this game at an active level for some time.

There was a new record set in the National Cup Sweden S68 with only 508 teams participating teams. This is the lowest number ever. Despite 3D being back..

Regarding all the nonsense you keep typing.

I have to admit this, but I don't find you a bit funny. Please don't take this in a personal way, as I don't try to be rude with you. Being funny through text is damn difficult. I just know of two users that could do this at a consistent level here on MZ. Sadly both of them quit the game long ago. I am not difficult to please. For example, I laughed out loud when I saw the following video earlier today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI6XJtU03NY

But again, humor through text isn't for everybody to achieve. I know I can't, so I don't try. Perhaps you should tune it down a couple of notches aswell, as 99% of what you write is just silliness. It can be quite confusing for any potential new forum users, not to mention that quite a few foreigners who frequent here on the English forums have limited understanding of English. Your childish nonsense jokes become even more jibber-jabber if you insert it into google translate, not that you would think it could be possible.

aemi wrote:

I think that the new "chat" feature, which has already been abused by a certain romanian, it's a good reassurance that they are actively developing the game and did not run out of ideas. Yes there may be challenges to which they don't have an answer right now to, like a new sim or porting it to mobile platforms, but I have faith that they are looking at all the options and eventually they will figure out ways to work everything out.

The new chat function is a great addition to the game. Anything that will help users communicate is a big plus.

I think there are many great things that can be said about the game currently. Yet, that is not what this thread is about. This reason for this thread was to highlight the major flaws in the game today, and for Crew to take notice. Mission accomplished in that aspect.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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Come to think of it, hanzinho you are absolutely right. I overstepped my boundaries. You have clearly proven yourself being competitive and making do with the SIM. That's even more impressive since that SIM is so broken in the way you so eloquently describe. You sir, are truly a gentleman and a scholar.

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I think the opinion of killerbeeez and smaakeloos are very important to this discussion. Because I was just about to suggest, there are a handful of active users on the English forums (who do we blame now, aik or powder?, cause it ain't the thunder) and we are probably the loudest and we may very well think that this is how the rest of the active and some paying MZ users think. But it appears that those different managers see things in a different way, and what we see as truth may very well be just a perspective. Like I don't care about 3D, but when I will get in the final of a cup again, I will def watch in 3D. There could be a lot of other users that might appreciate this a lot more than we do.

Also, stop attacking the manager, first of all you are not aemi, second of all it's rude and third of all it takes away from your argument. We all play this game for different reasons, and it's absolutely none of your freaking business why they don't have trophies. Their opinion counts just as much as of an accomplished manager (can't think of any right now), and if you don't like it, I think Venezuela or Cuba would be excited to have you.

For eg, I play this game mostly as an investing/financial management game which combines my passion for soccer. Made millions back in the day, when we had no bonuses, no Dr. Phil for the norvegians and finding a strategy that brought you money was a gold mine. It kinda lost it's purpose now, since free money just keeps coming in and everybody is a millionaire now.

hanzinho wrote:
They don't post often, period.


Sorry dude, I strongly disagree. IMHO, this team of crew is the most fun to deal with since 2003. Also the most active, imo. I remember there were times back in the day, when almost a year would pass by and we would get no official news, or see any changes in the game. Also, back in the day, posts on the English forums from the crew were RARE.

hanzinho wrote:
I have to admit this, but I don't find you a bit funny.


You and my spouse must have a similar personality or way of perceiving funny. Look at the bright side, at least you don't have to live with me. This could also be the reason why I am not famous, although I doubt it, because I think a lot of broadcast comedians lurk around here and steal my jokes.

Oh and thank you for killing my productivity with your youtube link.

hanzinho wrote:
Please don't take this in a personal way, as I don't try to be rude with you.


Not at all dude, thanks for the feedback, I think I am the only one here on the forums that you guys can legitimately complain about, because I obviously try to joke around and end up making fun of some of you and it may very well not be funny, and come across as an attack. But you gotta give it to me, I keep on trying, I ain't giving up just yet.

hanzinho wrote:
Sadly both of them quit the game long ago


Oh, I am back baby, learn to spell a-e-m-i.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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The forum without aemi would be soooo boring :D

Re: MZ - The downfall

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Aemi I think Hanz is actually your spouse living a double life on the internet. Ask her if she knows a team called Kill or Die to see if she has a minor heart attack or not.

Hanz is one of the most arrogant managers I've seen in this game. You point out the obvious as in he having an overpriced squad that can't perform at the highest level, he turns to Mourinho pointing out that you have zero trophies and he has a zillion. Well if you know it all why were you manhandled in world league top series? And don't talk about to me efficiency. Your forwards and back line is crap.

So my advice to you would be to be humble and contact the top managers in the game using the new chat system so they can mentor you instead of acting like a two year old and selling your whole squad and or quitting the game just because you didn't win the world league top series. What of all those managers that have better teams compared to yours but still have yet to win the world league top series too? Or you think you have held the number 1 rank in mz for some days so you automatically have the best team? Obviously not.

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[RAF]
President
aemi wrote:
Sorry dude, I strongly disagree. IMHO, this team of crew is the most fun to deal with since 2003. Also the most active, imo. I remember there were times back in the day, when almost a year would pass by and we would get no official news, or see any changes in the game. Also, back in the day, posts on the English forums from the crew were RARE.


Aemi,
I can recall the times when Cattleyard and his colleagues were some of the most active on the forum. And also Patrick had his big contribution to the forums... Sorry but you are clearly mistaking in this, no doubt about it!


killerbeeez wrote:
Hanz is one of the most arrogant managers I've seen in this game. [...]
What of all those managers that have better teams compared to yours but still have yet to win the world league top series too? Or you think you have held the number 1 rank in mz for some days so you automatically have the best team? Obviously not


Killer,
You should be ashamed of yourself for such a post. You are right he is arrogant (I met him in person and I can testify to that!:P) but then again, if you deny the fact that Hanz is one of the most dedicated and successful managers in this game, you are just blind. Blind as a bat. Or blind as a kangaroo in a cave.

It's one thing to disagree with the man but another to go personal. You have anything to say? FInd arguments to his SOT mishaps which continue to happen at an horrendous rate at top level. Neither Hanz or anyone else wants to win everything (ok, we all want that but we understand when we don't) but to lose everything or the majority of games against play just because you have a negative boost at a start of the competition is just why SUCCESSFUL managers quit this game to a very large extent.

Probably that's why you are still here, watching kiddy league games in 3D.

Re: MZ - The downfall

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[RAF]
President
PS:
And no one here is trying to say this CREW is the worst or they are doing wrong or... We are here to point out problems of the game and propose solutions. Conversion of SOTs is one problem, the youth system is another... We discuss and from discussions come ideas for a better game. And maybe tomorrow's updates. Maybe...

PS2:
I knew the quote from Powder ("developing a state-of-the-art 3D would basically exhaust all our available resources, in order to achieve something that we don't actually think the game really needs.") and it's only funny to see that now resources are put into it. Don't get me wrong, 3D is unique and was, starting the beginning, the differentiator between MZ and likes of Hattrick.

But if today resources are put into 3D at the cost of the game itself (training, sim, etc.), then don't wonder people believe it wrong. Because CREW said it would be wrong. And CREW can't be wrong, right? Unless CREW says it was wrong, which is ok. Or is it?

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stabilizing the conversion rate of SOTs would mean.....*drum roll*..... writing a new SIM (or at least, patching the current one so nobody sees a 14-3 SOTs resulting in a 1-2 final score)

problem solved :P

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[Sugar]
President
I realized that I was being too hard on 3D
In fact I tested 3D and I think it is a good improvement from the last version.
Although I'll stick with 2D that I think it's better to analyse the game

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civilu wrote:
Aemi,
I can recall the times when Cattleyard and his colleagues were some of the most active on the forum. And also Patrick had his big contribution to the forums... Sorry but you are clearly mistaking in this, no doubt about it!




Killer,
You should be ashamed of yourself for such a post. You are right he is arrogant (I met him in person and I can testify to that!:P) but then again, if you deny the fact that Hanz is one of the most dedicated and successful managers in this game, you are just blind. Blind as a bat. Or blind as a kangaroo in a cave.

It's one thing to disagree with the man but another to go personal. You have anything to say? FInd arguments to his SOT mishaps which continue to happen at an horrendous rate at top level. Neither Hanz or anyone else wants to win everything (ok, we all want that but we understand when we don't) but to lose everything or the majority of games against play just because you have a negative boost at a start of the competition is just why SUCCESSFUL managers quit this game to a very large extent.

Probably that's why you are still here, watching kiddy league games in 3D.


Legendary status aside, the guy has serious ego problems. Of course he is one of the most successful managers in the game no doubt. But that being said don't you think if you stop achieving as a manager you'll have to adjust the player quality to the times you live in? Remember when Valle Vista was around and one striker called Bowman with 8 balls in shooting with very poor secondaries made it into the national team? Today Bowman will not even make it as the mascot of the USA national team. Times change.

His shots on target issue is simple. His forwards are not good enough. His shots on target is so high because the whole team has very high passing balls but what's the use of that when the forwards can't finish after getting into the right positions tactics aside. That and obviously his forwards are coming up against some of the strongest defenders and keepers in the game so the Sim would favor them.(Quick note on tactics. I bought a decent 9 balls heading specialist who only headed over the bar or into the keeper when played on the 18 yard line but would score like a machine when moved away to a particular spot in my 5-3-2 tactic.) So it's not as simple as saying I had 30 shots on target with my 8 ball shooting striker so I should have won the game even though the opposition keeper was a 10 ball keeping monster. Does that make sense to you? So his sot conversion argument would be valid if his forwards were Ronaldo and Messi not a Norwegian Heskey.

If he stuck around and upgraded his team who knows may be he'll win the world league top series 8 times in a row but alas he's selling his team. Now that's a shame.

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I think managers are quitting bcoz of aemi's forum antics :P

He's gone from being a Forum Jest to Forum Pest. The jokes aren't good enough anymore. His jokes of late are as disastrous as THAT Indian visit of his Canadian PM Tradeau.

#MakeTheJokesGreatAgain

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theloyalone wrote:
I think managers are quitting bcoz of aemi's forum antics :P

He's gone from being a Forum Jest to Forum Pest. The jokes aren't good enough anymore. His jokes of late are as disastrous as THAT Indian visit of his Canadian PM Tradeau.

#MakeTheJokesGreatAgain


Aemi is an institution. Show some respect lol.

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Is it a joke???
If that will be the reason, that I fail in the championship, I will take consider to quit from this game. 24 vs 4 shots and I lose with 1 goal?
Otherwise, my team is struggling in the national championship, too. My team is much more stronger as for example than the 2. team, but I can't win confidentally. That is a joke. And I use to adjust my tactics, too.

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pmfc2011 wrote:


Is it a joke???
If that will be the reason, that I fail in the championship, I will take consider to quit from this game. 24 vs 4 shots and I lose with 1 goal?
Otherwise, my team is struggling in the national championship, too. My team is much more stronger as for example than the 2. team, but I can't win confidentally. That is a joke. And I use to adjust my tactics, too.


This is nothing.I lost 2-0 once with 29 shots on target and other team had like 3 or 5 and goal keeper was man of the match just like your match. It happens occasionally. Please don't say MZ will go down the toilet because you lost.

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As for the thread's discussion, i won't say anything. Or rather, i don't want to say anything. I've done my share of ranting and panting (about the SIM) :P, and i've come to live with the fact that if you can't change something, you just gotta figure out how to best live with it.

And for the same reason, i don't pay much attention to setting/changing tactics (on match to match basis) these days. When you worry a lot about tactics, and take extra measures to win, and then when the SIM ‘plays’ with you, it feels horrible. trust me, i've been through it. A lot. On the contrary, when you play like you don't give a damn, you actually end up winning matches u wouldnt, and most things go well.

An outstanding example of this – Until a few seasons back, I’d been very active (vis-à-vis setting formations for matches). My league had literally no active players. Yet, I’d lose/draw versus teams with horrible teams and tactics. and no, we aren’t talking about ‘standard tactics’ here. I actually mean HORRIBLE. something like an empty center and players scattered here and there.

And my team was by far better than any other team. Yet, for 2-3 seasons, a Cup eluded me. Then finally, partly due to personal life matters, and partly due to a failed attempt at beating (the hell out of :P) the SIM, I just stopped giving a damn. and guess what ? I won the very next season. this despite the fact that there are now 2-3 other good and active managers in my league. atleast, they are much better than those faceless managers of 2-3 seasons ago. oops, I ended up ranting quite a bit again :P


So now, I keep myself limited my GA duties, and sometimes NC tactics stuff. of course, my escapist solution isn’t even worth being called a solution. so you guys can carry on your discussions :)

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limited to* my

walesworldwide wrote:
The worst thing in the game is that users keep on breaking the game rules and nobody does anything about it, a petty :(

Abuse Excessive Bid
Ariel Bretal id: 195102356
Player not worth 300.000 GBP , selling for 3.500.000 GBP wtf?


zorzyior09 wrote:
New(?) Greek(?) users sign up too, put them youngsters with potentials in the transfer list, buy them with their main team(s), new-born accounts then go inactive and jammed into lower divs.
Not an achievement to have a...climax upon I would think.


Guys, what do you think we're for ? you may not be able to see the investigation's conclusion, but that doesnt mean such cheaters (if they are cheaters) go unpunished. it's just that the punishment isn't visible to the normal managers.

I was one of you some months back, making allegations of ridiculous transfers and plain cheating. and just like you, even i thought such guys go unpunished. when i became a GA, i saw how things actually are. all the guys i'd made a mental note of (as cheaters) had been rightfully punished.

So, please have faith in the XAs and the Crew. You might not understand/see it, but we do do our jobs :)

Also, the same goes for the developments vis-a-vis MZ. According to many of us, MZ is lagging behind in some/many aspects, but that doesnt mean the Crew's doing nothing about it. It's just that we aren't privy to their work, and hence may not understand their decisions at times. It's different when you're actually in that role, and have lots of decisions to make. thanks.

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killerbeeez wrote:
... Remember when Valle Vista was around and one striker called Bowman with 8 balls in shooting with very poor secondaries made it into the national team?...


you're too old mate!
:p

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aldebaran wrote:
you're too old mate!
:p


Hahaa. Not too old but old enough.

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[WCE]
President
aemi wrote:
I think the opinion of killerbeeez and smaakeloos are very important to this discussion. Because I was just about to suggest, there are a handful of active users on the English forums (who do we blame now, aik or powder?, cause it ain't the thunder) and we are probably the loudest and we may very well think that this is how the rest of the active and some paying MZ users think.

Fair point. This was actually always the case in the past. Pretty much all ideas ever presented by former Crew team was shot down here on the English speaking forums, and usually by 5-6 Australian users coupled with a few English naysayers. In no way did they represent the majority. They assumed they did, of course. Arianos (former Crew member, if I remember his nick correctly) suggested a youth trading system 10-12 years ago. I felt it sounded really cool, but unfortunately the "majority" on the forums said no.

When the current Crew staff wanted to implement Work Permits, they did the smart thing and made a poll on the MZ federation. The resistance on the English speaking forums was "massive" of course, by the usual 6-7-8 people. It is so much easier shooting down ideas, then praising them if you agree. I don't remember the poll result, but it was massively in favor of work permit / increasing foreigners.

I don't know if I should take credit for this, but I did tell Patrick early on not to listen to the voices of the naysayers on the English speaking forums. He might have come to this conclusion himself though, as he was a smart chap. He screwed up massively though by enforcing deterioration and Head2Head later on. His biggest flaw was that he was quite stubborn.

Could it be that 3D is more popular than I think? Yes. One Crew member which I respect, told me he believe this is the correct path as it opens up the possibilities for other improvements such as new jerseys and digital goods. And a decent 3D might increase conversion. I still think the simulator should have received prioritization, like it was planned initially. I believe dowopado shared intel from the admin forums where a new simulator was promised within 2018. This was before 3D became the focus.

3D has been operational for some time. Perhaps it is a tad to early to conclude, but so far I don't see any increase in participants in the national cups. If 3D is such a jar of honey, then surely we would have seen a small increase of new users.

I would love to see a poll on the MZ federation regarding 2D vs. 3D (how people watch their games). My guess is 75-25 in favor of 2D. That said, one thing is what you prefer, another thing is how important it is to you. How many users would quit the game if 3D was removed entirely? Some probably will. But then how does that stack up against the cost of developing and maintaining 3D?

My skepticism towards 3D here on MZ is more of a strategical viewpoint than me not preferring 3D myself. I believe there is a reason why hardly any football manager games out there has a 3D. If I want to play online chess, I don't care for animations. MZ is a strategy game more than anything else. Not to mention that it is very difficult to analyze games unless you watch it in 2D.

aemi wrote:
Their opinion counts just as much as of an accomplished manager (can't think of any right now).

If you aren't contributing financially to this game, than your opinion matter next to nothing. Harsh words, but that is my no BS opinion. It is slightly absurd that the biggest defender of the game currently, aren't spending a dime on the game. While the biggest critic (moi), is among the biggest contributor currently, spending around 200-400 EUR every damn season.

If you haven't won a single trophy, not even a small one (in 10-15 years), then your opinion regarding important game mechanics like the simulator has a value of around 0,000000000001% to me. I am just being honest here. It simply isn't interesting to read, at all. And I have absolutely no interest in discussing the sim with those users, or seeing them "analyze" my squad or games. They can continue calling me whatever insults they please, I still won't take the bait.

Me, arrogant? pfffft! H

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[WCE]
President
civilu wrote:

It's one thing to disagree with the man but another to go personal. You have anything to say? FInd arguments to his SOT mishaps which continue to happen at an horrendous rate at top level. Neither Hanz or anyone else wants to win everything (ok, we all want that but we understand when we don't) but to lose everything or the majority of games against play just because you have a negative boost at a start of the competition is just why SUCCESSFUL managers quit this game to a very large extent.

I ignored him when he wanted a tutorial from me some months ago (guestbook), as I don't have time to offer tutoring to random people. He has hated my guts ever since. Some people take rejection very personal. I just continue to ignore the guy, as he seems a bit "too much".

Regarding negative boost.. The results in the WL was very interesting. I told adexinio around half way through the series that we would meet in 1st division soon. He thought I was joking, since I was well clear of relegation at that point. But I smelled relegation. There was something weird going on..

Before the final game of that series, the following had to occur in order for me to get relegated:
I had to lose my game (which I did, against play of course).
2 specific teams below me on the table had to win, which they did.
A third team had to get atleast a draw. They did!
All of this I predicted.

The simulator wanted me to get relegated, and the simulator always wins.

Before that series my goal was to avoid relegation. I thought it would be a tough battle with my U29 team. I would have been ok with a relegation if it had happened without me winning SOT in 20 out of 22 games ;) In order to win WL, you need lots of +30 year old players. I might have been the youngest team in the WL top division ever, thats atleast something..

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theloyalone wrote:


Guys, what do you think we're for ? you may not be able to see the investigation's conclusion, but that doesnt mean such cheaters (if they are cheaters) go unpunished. it's just that the punishment isn't visible to the normal managers.

I was one of you some months back, making allegations of ridiculous transfers and plain cheating. and just like you, even i thought such guys go unpunished. when i became a GA, i saw how things actually are. all the guys i'd made a mental note of (as cheaters) had been rightfully punished.



For starters, though kinda irrelevant to this post, ty for doing what is needed.
However some of us have been around long enough to be able to distinguish a mess-up to an exhibitionist.
A newbie takes 'ages' to elaborate and adjust to the game. When otherwise, combined with certain actions (promising 19yrers in transfer within a week, inactive within a couple of weeks etc) the case is 101% a mess-up. Since the transactions cannot be cancelled then the advantage over rest of users has been created.

The case of MUs and cheating has been going on for ages and won't stop since surveillance always depends upon tools available. Though, for someone to be claiming rise of userbase having taken into account those registries (if so) is rather misguided.

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President
theloyalone wrote:
When you worry a lot about tactics, and take extra measures to win, and then when the SIM ‘plays’ with you, it feels horrible. trust me, i've been through it. A lot. On the contrary, when you play like you don't give a damn, you actually end up winning matches u wouldnt, and most things go well.

That is one of the biggest downside with the current simulator. It punishes activity. The more time you spend on a particular game, it be analyzing and setting up a proper tactic, the more toll it takes on your motivation when the result goes against play.

You got the tactic correct, yet the simulator gives the victory to the opponent. It is like boxing in the Olympics against some Russian guy, and absolutely dominating all 3 rounds. Yet the judges gives the other Russian the victory. Your first thought isn't to return to the gym the following day..

I am also at this stage you are at currently. I simply don't care about result as much. It means I don't log in nearly as much as when I did care. At times I check the result without checking the game (result page), and I pretend SOT was somewhat aligned with the result. Ignorance is bliss :D

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[Nati]
President
@ aik and crew:

this downfall thread appears as being a list of key elements that do not go well, as much as things to do to make it right. The SIM, marketing and youth being the 3 main ones.

now, here are my 2 cents to you: those 3 may probably require heavy efforts and investments (?). But what is the more astonishing to me, when opening MZ, are the soooooooo many quick wins. You shall not underestimate, when managing a product, how gold quick wins are. (by quick wins means: sth that add value, even very little, at low effort). The key being the accumulation of those, and their direct effect to your customers.

I will hereby list a few that come to my mind while writing, but clearly, all threads in the suggestion section of all forums are plenty of those. Just read, list, estimate and act.

Examples:

Add a tab in leagues to populate history of winners. This would be cool, especially for newbies so they know MZ has an history, plus they know who did success in their country. Estimated man-days: 7

Give the National Cup (at least senior) for free to all. This would match the spirit of such cup. Allowing newbies and older to know each other exist. Estimated man-days: 0,2

Write 4 pages per season, and (re)publish a Crew Zone. This would advertise on the feature, and allow you to communicate. Do some survey, or news, or just list good clubs, whatever.. Estimated man-days: 4 days/season

Again: efforts on key aspects listed by hanzino and others remain keys. But look at suggestions, and then tackle those quick wins.

"In Jasool we trust"

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President
zorzyior09 wrote:
For starters, though kinda irrelevant to this post, ty for doing what is needed.
However some of us have been around long enough to be able to distinguish a mess-up to an exhibitionist.
A newbie takes 'ages' to elaborate and adjust to the game. When otherwise, combined with certain actions (promising 19yrers in transfer within a week, inactive within a couple of weeks etc) the case is 101% a mess-up. Since the transactions cannot be cancelled then the advantage over rest of users has been created.

The case of MUs and cheating has been going on for ages and won't stop since surveillance always depends upon tools available. Though, for someone to be claiming rise of userbase having taken into account those registries (if so) is rather misguided.

I have seen several other users drawing the same conclusions as you, just like theloyalone did before he became GA. This tells me that the current 'report cheating' system and feedback from support could be improved. The user who reported the cheating should receive more information than "ticket has been resolved".

Last season I reported a user who sold lots of players to new teams in Morocco of all places. In one week he sold 9 (!) crappy Norwegian players to such clubs for decent prices. What are the odds... I didn't even receive a "ticket has been resolved". Recently the guy sold another player to Morocco, so he is still at large. Several users in Norway are quite upset with the situation. Maybe he was fined? But how do we know this was dealt with by support? Does it encourage you to contact support again when you see other suspicious behavior? Nope.

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hanzinho wrote:
I ignored him when he wanted a tutorial from me some months ago (guestbook), as I don't have time to offer tutoring to random people. He has hated my guts ever since. Some people take rejection very personal. I just continue to ignore the guy, as he seems a bit "too much".

Regarding negative boost.. The results in the WL was very interesting. I told adexinio around half way through the series that we would meet in 1st division soon. He thought I was joking, since I was well clear of relegation at that point. But I smelled relegation. There was something weird going on..

Before the final game of that series, the following had to occur in order for me to get relegated:
I had to lose my game (which I did, against play of course).
2 specific teams below me on the table had to win, which they did.
A third team had to get atleast a draw. They did!
All of this I predicted.

The simulator wanted me to get relegated, and the simulator always wins.

Before that series my goal was to avoid relegation. I thought it would be a tough battle with my U29 team. I would have been ok with a relegation if it had happened without me winning SOT in 20 out of 22 games ;) In order to win WL, you need lots of +30 year old players. I might have been the youngest team in the WL top division ever, thats atleast something..


Hanzinho. First of I don't hate your guts. You didn't kill my cat or anyone I know for that matter so I definitely don't hate you over football simulation game . That's not who I am.

But eer buddy, actually you shot yourself in the face for ignoring a returning manager, (who was a big fan, believe it or not, of your team for years when you would only buy the most expensive young talents out there fielding an entire team over 22 to 24year olds I think) who asked for tactical and training help. I am not much. I am a lot lol.

You're an intelligent fellow true but you don't take criticism well and would rather everyone agreed with you. That's not how the world works. I'm sure daddy told you this.

I clearly pointed out that your complaints about the Sim were not valid in the space you operated within but you won't have it. Your team should be world beaters because you dropped 12million $ on some of them. Anyone who disagrees with you is a hater. Your team is just not good enough. That's why you kept losing and the other managers kept winning. It's simple really.

We all agree that the Sim needs works. It's needed work for the 15 ish years I've been playing this game. Was a problem in 2004, 2006,2008. Still is today. It will never be perfect, satisfying every tactic, manager etc.. in my opinion and I personally have accepted this taking the loss easy and doing micro backflips in my seat when I dismantle a higher rated team. Instead of running away try this approach lol.

Also why you have this elitist attitude to a football simulation game regarding interactions with non-paying members of mz beats my mind. My opinion is just as valid as yours whether you like it or not because who is a non-paying member but a paying member who hasn't renewed his membership yet right? Lol. But fyi I paid for this game for years but haven't renewed my cm and bought tokens for a while now for personal reasons but this is to change soon.

Alas I'm on permanent ignore so I won't get a response as usual.

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zorzyior09 wrote:
A newbie takes 'ages' to elaborate and adjust to the game. When otherwise, combined with certain actions (promising 19yrers in transfer within a week, inactive within a couple of weeks etc) the case is 101% a mess-up. Since the transactions cannot be cancelled then the advantage over rest of users has been created.


Not really very true. sure, transfers cannot be cancelled, but what about the penalties that the cheaters have to pay once they're caught ? (and trust me, they're caught sooner or later..it's just a matter of time)

surely those hefty fines put them at a much greater disadvantage than the advantage gotten by those players bought.

hanzinho wrote:
That is one of the biggest downside with the current simulator. It punishes activity. The more time you spend on a particular game, it be analyzing and setting up a proper tactic, the more toll it takes on your motivation when the result goes against play.

You got the tactic correct, yet the simulator gives the victory to the opponent. It is like boxing in the Olympics against some Russian guy, and absolutely dominating all 3 rounds. Yet the judges gives the other Russian the victory. Your first thought isn't to return to the gym the following day..

I am also at this stage you are at currently. I simply don't care about result as much. It means I don't log in nearly as much as when I did care. At times I check the result without checking the game (result page), and I pretend SOT was somewhat aligned with the result. Ignorance is bliss :D


very true :P the efforts u put in is directly proportional to the pain you feel at losing (in an undeserving way). which is why i've just 'let go' lol.

To a certain extent, i understand you hanz. You hate losing. Though many others aren't very fond of such an approach, i myself have that approach. I've played real soccer (apart from other sports) a lot in my childhood, and I've always hated losing (that doesn't mean i always lost lol..i always won, that's why i hated losing :P). I'd actually cry if and when i lost. And i'd take losses personally.

even when i first joined this game, i was more or less like that. I hate losing (especially when the difference between me and my opponent wasn't huge). some managers may still remember my rants in the Forum.

but now, i've just let go. it's a game after all, hanz. if this was real life soccer, it'd have been a different thing. the results don't always reflect on your tactical acumen :P

but, knowing the amount of time and efforts u (and other managers at the top level) put in, it's understandable to feel how u do.


P.S. - i even take FIFA (video game) losses personally most of the times :P

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hanzinho wrote:
I have seen several other users drawing the same conclusions as you, just like theloyalone did before he became GA. This tells me that the current 'report cheating' system and feedback from support could be improved. The user who reported the cheating should receive more information than "ticket has been resolved".

Last season I reported a user who sold lots of players to new teams in Morocco of all places. In one week he sold 9 (!) crappy Norwegian players to such clubs for decent prices. What are the odds... I didn't even receive a "ticket has been resolved". Recently the guy sold another player to Morocco, so he is still at large. Several users in Norway are quite upset with the situation. Maybe he was fined? But how do we know this was dealt with by support? Does it encourage you to contact support again when you see other suspicious behavior? Nope.


well, i'll agree with you on that. that was the same way i felt before becoming a GA. now, i've never had the 'chance' to feel that way, since i am privy to the happenings, and 'doings' too lol. but now that i think about it again, it must be really frustrating to not know what happens to the cheaters. and it does discourage you from reporting such behavior again. Maybe something can/should be done about that.

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theloyalone wrote:
well, i'll agree with you on that. that was the same way i felt before becoming a GA. now, i've never had the 'chance' to feel that way, since i am privy to the happenings, and 'doings' too lol. but now that i think about it again, it must be really frustrating to not know what happens to the cheaters. and it does discourage you from reporting such behavior again. Maybe something can/should be done about that.


and, in fact, that's what motivated me to join as an XA in the first place. i had an appalling experience with Support on some instances, and i thought ''I'll go become a XA and show them how the job is done.'' lol. i wanted to make a difference. Of course, after i joined, i saw that things werent as bad as i'd earlier thought they were. I know of some XAs who dedicate more time to their XA role than even top managers do to their teams, and it's been a pleasure and privilege having to work with/under some of them :)

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theloyalone wrote:
and, in fact, that's what motivated me to join as an XA in the first place. i had an appalling experience with Support on some instances, and i thought ''I'll go become a XA and show them how the job is done.'' lol. i wanted to make a difference. Of course, after i joined, i saw that things werent as bad as i'd earlier thought they were. I know of some XAs who dedicate more time to their XA role than even top managers do to their teams, and it's been a pleasure and privilege having to work with/under some of them :)


Keep up the good work because personally I think mz will be around for very long time and people like you will be one of the reasons. Everything else is just noise.

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killerbeeez wrote:
Everything else is just noise.


Norvegian Noise in particular. An important detail, because the Game and people behind it are swedish. The Norvs never seemed to be too fond of the Swedish. It may be because they were only a colony of Sweden until a hundred years ago or so. But I would not know for sure.

Anyways, nice advertising this hanz is got going on. Kid you not. There was another wise manager on the forum and he was like how much do you think this player is worth, a decent player too, oh and ppl started guessing and then he was like btw he is on the transfer list too.

But hanz is something else. Make a forum thread, create serious drama, lots of downfalls/exiting, insult the crew, insult more users, drama increased, something about SOT etc and then enjoy the exposure by making available the skills of all your seniors players and change your team's name to "Selling Everything - Soon". He is planning to buy a reindeer farm with the money.

Brilliant advertising plan, I will use this to sell my pet beaver. I plan on keeping only my other pet, Pete the kangaroo.

Nice to see that my friend and our winner, theloyalone, managed to win almost a game as a NC at the latest U21 World Cup. I heard that the opposite team, Moldova, still can't get over it.

That being said, I just heard Hanz saying above the following:

*"Me arrogant? I Excel at it..."

* If you don't get the reference, ask a friend to ask another friend...
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