Football » English » ManagerZone talk

MZ - The downfall

By hanzinho - 05-10-2018 19:51

[WCE]
President

I have always been an advocate for a strong correlation between SOT (shots on target) and result. The logic behind this is that users have a much easier time understanding and accepting a loss if the opponent created more chances. You don't want the game to look like a spreadsheet, so having some results against play is both acceptable and needed in my opinion. An occasional 15-10 = 1-2 is ok. However, 35-5 = 0-0 is not needed. Neither is 18-7 = 5-5(!) or 21-1 = 0-1. Such results make users rage-quit in despair. It shouldn't even happen once in a thousand. "Apple is like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water and my job is to get the shop pointed in the right direction". This was said by Gil Amelio as he was about to be thrown in favor of Steve Jobs. This quote sticks to my mind when I think of the current development of ManagerZone. ManagerZone has lost +90% of its userbase during the last 10 years or so. The recent 17th Anniversary Cup had a participation of 8 221, even though it was free to non-CMs. MZ Anniversary Cup 2008 had a participation of 144 637. Of course, a large portion of the 144k of users that signed up for the cup back then, were non-paying users. It does however show how unpopular the game has become. Lets use an optimistic estimation and say that the game now has 15k active users (probably less), and that half of the userbase missed out on the recent free cup. So, 15 000 people in the world are playing ManagerZone today. Is it just in my head, or does this number sound ridiculously low? Nowadays, everybody have Internet. Even a mediocre blog in Norway generates more visits per day than 15k. I have never understood why certain aspects/features exist in the game today. The form-system for one. You'd be surprised how difficult this is for a new user to understand. And it is also difficult to explain it to them. I have a friend who quit this game years ago because he wasn't able to maintain a good form. A simple solution would have been for Crew to remove the chance of players to become tired. Another user quit this game when both his strikers broke a leg in the same match. We are talking about +40 day injuries. If a feature makes 0,1% of the users quit the game, then it should be removed. The leakage has to be fixed! I doubt anybody will quit the game because there aren't enough long-term injuries, or because it has become too easy to manage the form. Then there is the way deterioration was implemented. You fail to understand your users when you remove balls from their beloved players. Yes, it is a small small fraction of the hole ball, but visually it is 1 ball. Look at the image below for a smoother way of implementing deterioration. I spent 1 calorie coming up with this idea, and it is from the very top of my head. A simple icon that shows how far the deterioration process has come. And voila, we can still compare the skills of players from various era. [img]http://thedeepzone.no/core_img/div/detoriation.png[/img] This player is fully deteriorated (10 out of 10). As a 32 year old, this icon would be approximately 5 out of 10. Back to the simulator. Did you know that you can win SOT (shots on target) in 91% of the matches in the top-division of WL, and still get relegated? I won SOT in 20 out of 22 matches, but in 12 of the 20 matches I was robbed. Ergo, in 60%(!) of the matches where I won the SOT, I either lost or drew the game. [img]http://thedeepzone.no/shared/crappy_sim.png[/img] In Champions Cup I was knocked out despite winning SOT 18-10. The team who beat me went all the way to the final, where they lost against play. Last season ALL 3 Elite cup-finals went against play. Both in Top Teams Cup, Cup Winners Cup and Champions Cup, the team that had the fewest shots on target won the game. The team that got robbed in Top Teams Cup sold out (Ultra Copos). I was thinking of the same (I was the one who lost the Cup Winners Cup). In U18 NE I managed to draw against the bottom team, despite winning SOT 18-7. The result was 5-5! My 8 ball GK (best I have had in years) with great partials, conceded 5 out of 7 shots. 5 hours ago I lost the final of the Fitness Cup S67 against play aswell. It is interesting, but I doubt I have lost SOT in more than a handful of games this entire season, counting official games. It happened once in the league, once in Victory Cup 2018 (grand final). Then there is U21 Paraguay. Here there was somewhat poetic justice that they knocked out Sweden. Simulator is a bi-product of Swedish comm... socialism. Points for everybody. An extension of "trophies for everybody" that was implemented a few seasons ago. It seems the current Crew forget that this is a game. You won all your games in 5th division? Sure, here you go, special Elite achievement for you. [img]http://thedeepzone.no/shared/paraguay.png[/img] If Crew wants less users as a way of reducing work load for their servers and hamsters, then I totally understand why they have created such an unfair simulator. I would however be more than a little bit concerned if I was an investor. I have played a heck of a lot of football manager games, and I have never come close to a match-engine where you can get relegated despite winning SOT in 91% of the games. Recently there was a significant bump in the cost of PT. You probably have seen a lot of teams that has the username "NO MORE PT FOR MZ". Often written in Spanish. I totally understand the move by Crew, because the expenses remain the same. So when income is reduced as a result of their incompetence and lack of understanding this game, then those few souls who remain in this game has to pay way more to keep this sinking ship heading somewhere, anywhere. After all it is better to sink near the bottom of a coral reef than at 1000 meter depths where your only companions will be jelly fish. Speaking of 3D. One year, almost to this day, a Crew member wrote the following: "It's a matter of where we want to prioritize our time and effort. Back in 2000-2010 a 3D was a pretty cool thing for a management game to have, but these days people care less about the glossy surface and more about the depth of content. Developing a state-of-the-art 3D would basically exhaust all our available resources, in order to achieve something that we don't actually think the game really needs." Fast forward a few months, and Crew could inform the community that all available resources was being exhausted in order to create something that the game didn't really need. 3D in all its glory is up and running again, to the awe of all the investors and 10 managers who watch their games in 3D. [img]http://thedeepzone.no/core_img/screendump/003.png[/img] I actually had to limit myself, because there probably is a limit to the amount of text in a post. I had a lot to say about the ultra-boring youth system, the lack of staff, facility, statistics, and how the game feels near identical to the game I started playing in 2003.I have always been an advocate for a strong correlation between SOT (shots on target) and result. The logic behind this is that users have a much easier time understanding and accepting a loss if the opponent created more chances. You don't want the game to look like a spreadsheet, so having some results against play is both acceptable and needed in my opinion. An occasional 15-10 = 1-2 is ok. However, 35-5 = 0-0 is not needed. Neither is 18-7 = 5-5(!) or 21-1 = 0-1. Such results make users rage-quit in despair. It shouldn't even happen once in a thousand.

"Apple is like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water and my job is to get the shop pointed in the right direction". This was said by Gil Amelio as he was about to be thrown in favor of Steve Jobs. This quote sticks to my mind when I think of the current development of ManagerZone.

ManagerZone has lost +90% of its userbase during the last 10 years or so. The recent 17th Anniversary Cup had a participation of 8 221, even though it was free to non-CMs. MZ Anniversary Cup 2008 had a participation of 144 637. Of course, a large portion of the 144k of users that signed up for the cup back then, were non-paying users. It does however show how unpopular the game has become. Lets use an optimistic estimation and say that the game now has 15k active users (probably less), and that half of the userbase missed out on the recent free cup. So, 15 000 people in the world are playing ManagerZone today. Is it just in my head, or does this number sound ridiculously low? Nowadays, everybody have Internet. Even a mediocre blog in Norway generates more visits per day than 15k.

I have never understood why certain aspects/features exist in the game today. The form-system for one. You'd be surprised how difficult this is for a new user to understand. And it is also difficult to explain it to them. I have a friend who quit this game years ago because he wasn't able to maintain a good form. A simple solution would have been for Crew to remove the chance of players to become tired.
Another user quit this game when both his strikers broke a leg in the same match. We are talking about +40 day injuries.

If a feature makes 0,1% of the users quit the game, then it should be removed. The leakage has to be fixed! I doubt anybody will quit the game because there aren't enough long-term injuries, or because it has become too easy to manage the form.

Then there is the way deterioration was implemented. You fail to understand your users when you remove balls from their beloved players. Yes, it is a small small fraction of the hole ball, but visually it is 1 ball. Look at the image below for a smoother way of implementing deterioration. I spent 1 calorie coming up with this idea, and it is from the very top of my head. A simple icon that shows how far the deterioration process has come. And voila, we can still compare the skills of players from various era.



This player is fully deteriorated (10 out of 10). As a 32 year old, this icon would be approximately 5 out of 10.

Back to the simulator. Did you know that you can win SOT (shots on target) in 91% of the matches in the top-division of WL, and still get relegated? I won SOT in 20 out of 22 matches, but in 12 of the 20 matches I was robbed. Ergo, in 60%(!) of the matches where I won the SOT, I either lost or drew the game.



In Champions Cup I was knocked out despite winning SOT 18-10. The team who beat me went all the way to the final, where they lost against play. Last season ALL 3 Elite cup-finals went against play. Both in Top Teams Cup, Cup Winners Cup and Champions Cup, the team that had the fewest shots on target won the game. The team that got robbed in Top Teams Cup sold out (Ultra Copos). I was thinking of the same (I was the one who lost the Cup Winners Cup). In U18 NE I managed to draw against the bottom team, despite winning SOT 18-7. The result was 5-5! My 8 ball GK (best I have had in years) with great partials, conceded 5 out of 7 shots.

5 hours ago I lost the final of the Fitness Cup S67 against play aswell. It is interesting, but I doubt I have lost SOT in more than a handful of games this entire season, counting official games. It happened once in the league, once in Victory Cup 2018 (grand final).

Then there is U21 Paraguay. Here there was somewhat poetic justice that they knocked out Sweden. Simulator is a bi-product of Swedish comm... socialism. Points for everybody. An extension of "trophies for everybody" that was implemented a few seasons ago. It seems the current Crew forget that this is a game. You won all your games in 5th division? Sure, here you go, special Elite achievement for you.



If Crew wants less users as a way of reducing work load for their servers and hamsters, then I totally understand why they have created such an unfair simulator. I would however be more than a little bit concerned if I was an investor. I have played a heck of a lot of football manager games, and I have never come close to a match-engine where you can get relegated despite winning SOT in 91% of the games.

Recently there was a significant bump in the cost of PT. You probably have seen a lot of teams that has the username "NO MORE PT FOR MZ". Often written in Spanish. I totally understand the move by Crew, because the expenses remain the same. So when income is reduced as a result of their incompetence and lack of understanding this game, then those few souls who remain in this game has to pay way more to keep this sinking ship heading somewhere, anywhere. After all it is better to sink near the bottom of a coral reef than at 1000 meter depths where your only companions will be jelly fish.

Speaking of 3D. One year, almost to this day, a Crew member wrote the following:
"It's a matter of where we want to prioritize our time and effort. Back in 2000-2010 a 3D was a pretty cool thing for a management game to have, but these days people care less about the glossy surface and more about the depth of content. Developing a state-of-the-art 3D would basically exhaust all our available resources, in order to achieve something that we don't actually think the game really needs."

Fast forward a few months, and Crew could inform the community that all available resources was being exhausted in order to create something that the game didn't really need. 3D in all its glory is up and running again, to the awe of all the investors and 10 managers who watch their games in 3D.



I actually had to limit myself, because there probably is a limit to the amount of text in a post. I had a lot to say about the ultra-boring youth system, the lack of staff, facility, statistics, and how the game feels near identical to the game I started playing in 2003.

Edited: 03-02-2019 05:31
Total edits: 2

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Re: MZ - The downfall

By manekaster - 19-01-2019 23:17

[TDF]
President

*Manekaster likes this post*

lufer wrote:

wtf i really love you buddy ;)

*Manekaster likes this post*

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 20-01-2019 01:44

[POLSKA]

Jesus Christ, the men or man, that talk about Ireland being hijacked by Polish people or other emigrants. If this wouldn't be a normal forum, or in real life i would use some other less pleasent arguments. You don;t know sh... what you're talking about. Is it my fault or Brazilians? or other Polish that there is more of us than Irish who don't give a f... a bout foootball? if MZ was about rugby than maybe more of them would join this game. We will use our teams name and it's not your problem or business. Once more, we didn;t choose the country, I'd love to be in Polish divisions, just because I'm a Irish resident I had to register in Ireland. Not my choice. Thanks to us emigrant the league is a little bit active, otherwise it would have maybe 5 managers in the country.Jesus Christ, the men or man, that talk about Ireland being hijacked by Polish people or other emigrants. If this wouldn't be a normal forum, or in real life i would use some other less pleasent arguments. You don;t know sh... what you're talking about. Is it my fault or Brazilians? or other Polish that there is more of us than Irish who don't give a f... a bout foootball? if MZ was about rugby than maybe more of them would join this game. We will use our teams name and it's not your problem or business.

Once more, we didn;t choose the country, I'd love to be in Polish divisions, just because I'm a Irish resident I had to register in Ireland. Not my choice. Thanks to us emigrant the league is a little bit active, otherwise it would have maybe 5 managers in the country.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By aemi - 20-01-2019 02:14

[Canada]

What you need to know to keep you up to speed... Trump is absolutely devastated that we left the Mexicans out of it. Hanzino can't sleep anymore over what a mockery his "inspiring thread" has become and I had nothing to do with it. The spreadsheets are full of fake news. In the meantime, manekaster just brought to my attention, that some good for nothing Nor[b]v[/b]egian Mayor just stole the title of the tallest Moose statue in the world from the hard working Canadians. Canadians are still working on a response, and I hope on that pink kangaroo that it won't start with "sorry..." Can we also blame the Aussies while we are at it? Anything, won't matter what...What you need to know to keep you up to speed...

Trump is absolutely devastated that we left the Mexicans out of it.

Hanzino can't sleep anymore over what a mockery his "inspiring thread" has become and I had nothing to do with it. The spreadsheets are full of fake news.

In the meantime, manekaster just brought to my attention, that some good for nothing Norvegian Mayor just stole the title of the tallest Moose statue in the world from the hard working Canadians. Canadians are still working on a response, and I hope on that pink kangaroo that it won't start with "sorry..."

Can we also blame the Aussies while we are at it? Anything, won't matter what...

Re: MZ - The downfall

By darkline - 20-01-2019 02:44

[FLUSA]
President

Hey, that's what I'm saying, Ireland it's pretty much like the USA in regards to the football sport, if it wasn't for foreigners our already small community would be a lot smaller, I think something like 70/80% of our managers are foreigners. What I still don't get is how Estonia, a Country with no real football history and with just 1.5M habitants has about the same amount of managers as England or the USA, certainly nothing to do with team names, that's for sure... maybe the price of tokens is lower and that helped keep managers in the game? Or crew did some publicity campaign? There has to be a reason...

lufer wrote:

wtf i really love you buddy. Unfortunately irish people don't give a damn to football and i promise, probably here in Dublin have more immigrants than irish people. If you guys that are complainning about other nationalities playing in the Irish League, i think it's better to read and know about Ireland problems and how immigrants help the country to grow up again, mainly polish and brazilian.

Hey, that's what I'm saying, Ireland it's pretty much like the USA in regards to the football sport, if it wasn't for foreigners our already small community would be a lot smaller, I think something like 70/80% of our managers are foreigners.

What I still don't get is how Estonia, a Country with no real football history and with just 1.5M habitants has about the same amount of managers as England or the USA, certainly nothing to do with team names, that's for sure... maybe the price of tokens is lower and that helped keep managers in the game? Or crew did some publicity campaign? There has to be a reason...

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 20-01-2019 10:48

I was talking about Irish league which has 50%+ Polish managers (what ever nation it would be, Estonians or Norsk or Japanese), not about real Ireland. I am thinking how to get things better, while you think how to continue crap talking and ignore better solutions. And if you can't read, I repeat, I was talking that while sign-up deciding nation should be optional, so Polish people in Ireland could play in Poland league - it is not to "save" Ireland MZ league from unreadable club names, it is also so that Polish people can play together with their nation. Win-win. I speak technically, I look at psychology and math of Internet. I don't care about politics. Like I made example - Orkut . It was nice site, until 2 nations conquered it with their language, then everybody did quit the site. It might be same problem with Ireland league. People join game, they check what is going on and see majority of clubs named in Polish (or Hindu or Korean or Latvian or Estonian or Mali or what ever). They don't get feeling that it is game where they could manage Ireland soccer club, they get feeling it is just another random commercial site, where Polish (or any random other nation) dominate. First, yes, I thought people can decide, they can pick the league. Then I got answer I am wrong and I apologized about my argument (I told, "lets be honest, they join Ireland leagues, because Poland has hard competition" --- that was wrong). Sorry again. Polish people would like to play in Poland league, right? Then we are on same boat and we can discuss it more peacefully, correct?

lukaszsz182 wrote:

Jesus Christ, the men or man, that talk about Ireland being hijacked by Polish people or other emigrants. If this wouldn't be a normal forum, or in real life i would use some other less pleasent arguments. You don;t know sh... what you're talking about. Is it my fault or Brazilians? or other Polish that there is more of us than Irish who don't give a f... a bout foootball? if MZ was about rugby than maybe more of them would join this game. We will use our teams name and it's not your problem or business.

Once more, we didn;t choose the country, I'd love to be in Polish divisions, just because I'm a Irish resident I had to register in Ireland. Not my choice. Thanks to us emigrant the league is a little bit active, otherwise it would have maybe 5 managers in the country.

I was talking about Irish league which has 50%+ Polish managers (what ever nation it would be, Estonians or Norsk or Japanese), not about real Ireland. I am thinking how to get things better, while you think how to continue crap talking and ignore better solutions.

And if you can't read, I repeat, I was talking that while sign-up deciding nation should be optional, so Polish people in Ireland could play in Poland league - it is not to "save" Ireland MZ league from unreadable club names, it is also so that Polish people can play together with their nation. Win-win.



I speak technically, I look at psychology and math of Internet. I don't care about politics.



Like I made example - Orkut . It was nice site, until 2 nations conquered it with their language, then everybody did quit the site. It might be same problem with Ireland league. People join game, they check what is going on and see majority of clubs named in Polish (or Hindu or Korean or Latvian or Estonian or Mali or what ever).

They don't get feeling that it is game where they could manage Ireland soccer club, they get feeling it is just another random commercial site, where Polish (or any random other nation) dominate.


First, yes, I thought people can decide, they can pick the league. Then I got answer I am wrong and I apologized about my argument (I told, "lets be honest, they join Ireland leagues, because Poland has hard competition" --- that was wrong). Sorry again.
Polish people would like to play in Poland league, right? Then we are on same boat and we can discuss it more peacefully, correct?

Edited: 20-01-2019 11:18
Total edits: 6

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 20-01-2019 11:26

My call to Polish people was: until rules are like they are, please work together, be polite, and rename your clubs to Irish-like. Then maybe things get better. If you can't play in Poland league, but want more managers to join the game, think widely. Ireland leagues have to be more attractive for Irish people, so they get better connection with their flag and so on. It is not "attack" against your club names/nation, it is suggestion, so you get more managers to your leagues. More transfers, more divisions, better competition. Just try it. Maybe it works.My call to Polish people was: until rules are like they are, please work together, be polite, and rename your clubs to Irish-like. Then maybe things get better.

If you can't play in Poland league, but want more managers to join the game, think widely. Ireland leagues have to be more attractive for Irish people, so they get better connection with their flag and so on.

It is not "attack" against your club names/nation, it is suggestion, so you get more managers to your leagues. More transfers, more divisions, better competition. Just try it. Maybe it works.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lufer - 20-01-2019 15:53

[FEOSP]

Yeah i know and saying that i Love you and everything foi said before ❤

darkline wrote:

Hey, that's what I'm saying, Ireland it's pretty much like the USA in regards to the football sport, if it wasn't for foreigners our already small community would be a lot smaller, I think something like 70/80% of our managers are foreigners.

What I still don't get is how Estonia, a Country with no real football history and with just 1.5M habitants has about the same amount of managers as England or the USA, certainly nothing to do with team names, that's for sure... maybe the price of tokens is lower and that helped keep managers in the game? Or crew did some publicity campaign? There has to be a reason...

Yeah i know and saying that i Love you and everything foi said before ❤

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lufer - 20-01-2019 15:58

[FEOSP]

It sounds sooo xenophobic lol

raamatupood wrote:

I was talking about Irish league which has 50%+ Polish managers (what ever nation it would be, Estonians or Norsk or Japanese), not about real Ireland. I am thinking how to get things better, while you think how to continue crap talking and ignore better solutions.

And if you can't read, I repeat, I was talking that while sign-up deciding nation should be optional, so Polish people in Ireland could play in Poland league - it is not to "save" Ireland MZ league from unreadable club names, it is also so that Polish people can play together with their nation. Win-win.



I speak technically, I look at psychology and math of Internet. I don't care about politics.



Like I made example - Orkut . It was nice site, until 2 nations conquered it with their language, then everybody did quit the site. It might be same problem with Ireland league. People join game, they check what is going on and see majority of clubs named in Polish (or Hindu or Korean or Latvian or Estonian or Mali or what ever).

They don't get feeling that it is game where they could manage Ireland soccer club, they get feeling it is just another random commercial site, where Polish (or any random other nation) dominate.

It sounds sooo xenophobic lol

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 20-01-2019 16:09

Fine, what ever.Fine, what ever.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By hanzinho - 20-01-2019 16:44

[WCE]
President

All 3 previous int. QF (official and prized) I played, I dominated. All 3 I lost. Motivation is somewhere between 0 and 1 percent currently. In the same time-span I got simmed in the first two WL matches aswell. This game.. I log in once per day now, just enough to set tactics for the coming day. I make one exception now though. So here goes. I really don't see the problem with foreign team names. Ireland would be even smaller if it hadn't been for the "Polish invasion". My team name isn't exactly Norwegian either. My issues with team names are Chinese ones, those who insist on using upper- or lowercase letters only (or a weird mixture), or those that use non-alphabetic stuff like stars, hearts and other signs/shapes (why is that even a possibility?). All of this makes tables very messy and ruins the flow of reading. One way to solve this would be to show all team names with uppercase letters on league tables etc and adjust the font size and type to incorporate this change. And remove the possibility to use non-alphabetic signs. Spot on. There is a site called wayback machine for checking how a website looked like 10-15-20 years ago, a time travel of sort. But if you want to check how an online football manager game looked like around 2002, then just log into present managerzone.com. UI changed a bit, league changed from 8 to 12 teams. But the core elements are the same. Same player skills, same way of presenting them (balls from 0 to 10). All elements added to the game afterwards are built on top of a flawed/obsolete framework. MZ is like a football club that used to be in the Premier League, fighting for major titles. Nowadays it is struggling financially and is stuck in 4th division. The only thing that can save this club long term, is a change of management. Just like a football club sometimes need to sack their manager and restructure their entire organization in order to reach new/old heights. This simulator is one big joke. Yet Crew spent all their resources (their own words) on 3D in 2018. That is like building a brand-new stadium despite you are playing crappy football and attendance is very low. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Or adding a new paint-job to a car with a busted engine to use another analogy. Due to the development of 3D, the 2018 changelog was the slimmest one in years. The private chat was a great add on, but that was basically it for an entire year. It simply isn’t enough. Every year that passes by, the game becomes more and more obsolete. Mold is growing on the walls in here. The way I see it, the best and possibly the only way to save this game is to build it from scratch again. On separate servers. When everything is in place, you port over the teams. Keep the elements/features that work but add new ones that brings the game to 2020-level. Including(!) a simulator that is both fair and resembles football. It requires some serious cojones to do this, as it is a humongous task. But more than anything, it requires an understanding of what an audience of a football manager game wants, and I seriously doubt this management does. They don’t even understand how important statistics are, and are fumbling around with 3D. Absurd. Atleast in the Patrick-era, there was a clear strategy. His focus was to adjust the average age of the players so that you wouldn’t have to have a first team consisting of +30 year old players to be successful. Problem though was that he tried to force this on top of a flawed framework (XP and whole ball maxings +++).All 3 previous int. QF (official and prized) I played, I dominated. All 3 I lost. Motivation is somewhere between 0 and 1 percent currently. In the same time-span I got simmed in the first two WL matches aswell. This game.. I log in once per day now, just enough to set tactics for the coming day. I make one exception now though. So here goes.

I really don't see the problem with foreign team names. Ireland would be even smaller if it hadn't been for the "Polish invasion". My team name isn't exactly Norwegian either.

My issues with team names are Chinese ones, those who insist on using upper- or lowercase letters only (or a weird mixture), or those that use non-alphabetic stuff like stars, hearts and other signs/shapes (why is that even a possibility?). All of this makes tables very messy and ruins the flow of reading.

One way to solve this would be to show all team names with uppercase letters on league tables etc and adjust the font size and type to incorporate this change. And remove the possibility to use non-alphabetic signs.

lufer wrote:

But come on guys, it is a old game, with old ideas, old stuffs. Now disturbing changed and the game did not followed the age.

Spot on. There is a site called wayback machine for checking how a website looked like 10-15-20 years ago, a time travel of sort. But if you want to check how an online football manager game looked like around 2002, then just log into present managerzone.com.

UI changed a bit, league changed from 8 to 12 teams. But the core elements are the same. Same player skills, same way of presenting them (balls from 0 to 10). All elements added to the game afterwards are built on top of a flawed/obsolete framework.

MZ is like a football club that used to be in the Premier League, fighting for major titles. Nowadays it is struggling financially and is stuck in 4th division. The only thing that can save this club long term, is a change of management. Just like a football club sometimes need to sack their manager and restructure their entire organization in order to reach new/old heights.

This simulator is one big joke. Yet Crew spent all their resources (their own words) on 3D in 2018. That is like building a brand-new stadium despite you are playing crappy football and attendance is very low. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Or adding a new paint-job to a car with a busted engine to use another analogy.

Due to the development of 3D, the 2018 changelog was the slimmest one in years. The private chat was a great add on, but that was basically it for an entire year. It simply isn’t enough. Every year that passes by, the game becomes more and more obsolete. Mold is growing on the walls in here.

The way I see it, the best and possibly the only way to save this game is to build it from scratch again. On separate servers. When everything is in place, you port over the teams.

Keep the elements/features that work but add new ones that brings the game to 2020-level. Including(!) a simulator that is both fair and resembles football. It requires some serious cojones to do this, as it is a humongous task. But more than anything, it requires an understanding of what an audience of a football manager game wants, and I seriously doubt this management does. They don’t even understand how important statistics are, and are fumbling around with 3D. Absurd.

Atleast in the Patrick-era, there was a clear strategy. His focus was to adjust the average age of the players so that you wouldn’t have to have a first team consisting of +30 year old players to be successful. Problem though was that he tried to force this on top of a flawed framework (XP and whole ball maxings +++).

Re: MZ - The downfall

By aemi - 21-01-2019 20:19

[Canada]

Good post, I must say. Never thought Norvegians can make good posts. But I always had faith in them. And I was right again. However, there is a clear strategy now as well, I must say. Buy them powertokens, the more the merrier. Haha. I think half of us will be happy with some meaningful changes as opposed to a complete revamp which is not gonna happen. On the other side, what if they saved the game from shutdown by fixing the 3D? Lets not forget that there is a big corporation behind, and in places like that there are a lot of politics and optics. The board or whatever may feel that the game is more relevant to the audience if they hear 3D. Sometimes you have to do something you don't want to get your way, in these circles. I feel this is a factor we are not taking in consideration. Back to the norvegians, did they really have to build a bigger moose statue than our Canadian moose statue? I miss the old days when Norway was just a colony, and we had none of this nonsense.Good post, I must say. Never thought Norvegians can make good posts. But I always had faith in them. And I was right again.

However, there is a clear strategy now as well, I must say. Buy them powertokens, the more the merrier. Haha.

I think half of us will be happy with some meaningful changes as opposed to a complete revamp which is not gonna happen.

On the other side, what if they saved the game from shutdown by fixing the 3D? Lets not forget that there is a big corporation behind, and in places like that there are a lot of politics and optics. The board or whatever may feel that the game is more relevant to the audience if they hear 3D. Sometimes you have to do something you don't want to get your way, in these circles. I feel this is a factor we are not taking in consideration.

Back to the norvegians, did they really have to build a bigger moose statue than our Canadian moose statue? I miss the old days when Norway was just a colony, and we had none of this nonsense.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By kingjaime - 22-01-2019 15:49

[BVB]

Is there not some way you could buy the company hanzi? :) Perhaps we could do a crowdfunding thing to assist you? I'd give a few quid :) Your passion for it, still wanting to discuss it and trying to cure and reignite it, after all this time... Wow. It needs someone with passion and a vision. Johan to a point. I never liked that Patrick fella much but at least amidst the stupid way he often expressed and conducted himself I would imagine he was trying... Is there any such person still around nowadays? If there isn't, I repeat the first 2 lines of this post ;)Is there not some way you could buy the company hanzi? :)
Perhaps we could do a crowdfunding thing to assist you? I'd give a few quid :)
Your passion for it, still wanting to discuss it and trying to cure and reignite it, after all this time... Wow. It needs someone with passion and a vision. Johan to a point. I never liked that Patrick fella much but at least amidst the stupid way he often expressed and conducted himself I would imagine he was trying... Is there any such person still around nowadays? If there isn't, I repeat the first 2 lines of this post ;)

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 22-01-2019 16:31

Nowadays really hard to convince owners to get changes (ASAP) done. I have tried to tell in Utopia, in Cosmicsupremacy -- that x things need change to get people back for sign up and so they stay too, not just check 2 minutes and leave for all. Some users say (in private) - good ideas. But majority of these, who are in public, the "last loyalties" - these are ignorant to changes, they just like everything how it is and when someone wants to make changes, they start dissing to "eat out" users from games, they take visionaries as enemies - what ever the reasons are, maybe just ego? And usually these games have slow programmers or programmers are so busy with more profitable projects. To buy game? Price of game is one thing. To get things rolling like planned, then you need really good programmer to get things done and these people are not cheap.Nowadays really hard to convince owners to get changes (ASAP) done.

I have tried to tell in Utopia, in Cosmicsupremacy -- that x things need change to get people back for sign up and so they stay too, not just check 2 minutes and leave for all.

Some users say (in private) - good ideas. But majority of these, who are in public, the "last loyalties" - these are ignorant to changes, they just like everything how it is and when someone wants to make changes, they start dissing to "eat out" users from games, they take visionaries as enemies - what ever the reasons are, maybe just ego?

And usually these games have slow programmers or programmers are so busy with more profitable projects. To buy game? Price of game is one thing. To get things rolling like planned, then you need really good programmer to get things done and these people are not cheap.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By aldebaran - 22-01-2019 22:02

what you need in every business adventure is realism there's no point spending resources and time on something that you know you can't make it better or there's not going to be any profit left for you in the end Like hanzinho said: "The way I see it, the best and possibly the only way to save this game is to build it from scratch again. On separate servers. When everything is in place, you port over the teams. " I think MZ 2.0 is long overdue...what you need in every business adventure is realism

there's no point spending resources and time on something that you know you can't make it better or there's not going to be any profit left for you in the end

Like hanzinho said:

"The way I see it, the best and possibly the only way to save this game is to build it from scratch again. On separate servers. When everything is in place, you port over the teams. "

I think MZ 2.0 is long overdue...

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 03:12

With MZ can make profits. And no need to start from scratch. 1) update markets -- it needs to be more interactive a) 2 more lists (200 per page): last 200 players added to market last 200 players sold in market * turn on/off : show only domestic players / hide x (multi) nation * notify me when new domestic player is put on market b) Since game lacks (it lacks?) of managers, maybe give more time for biddings. 1-2-3 days are not enough. Maybe make steps 2-5-10 days, instead * When player got new ball in skill while he is on market, add it to market view, too, so player will be more attractive. b2) "Cancel sale" = When manager did put player to market for 10 days,, and changes mind in some reasons, he can hope he can cancel the sale. When clicks "cancel", the player view gets info about that in market, like: "Offer will be canceled in 2 days (and counting less, in hours, "1 day 22h") if no bids come". --- Maybe manager wants to raise or lower the price (example: i did put 8-tac player to market, next day he got 9th and not maxed.. boomer.. market didn't show 9th ball and too low starting price, fail, went with pennies) or just wants to keep the player, still. c) Shortlisting should be more popular and have extra function: Since Sale Period would be longer, more managers might add players to Shortlist (wishlist). Shortlist-wishlist should show counter in market - how many managers are scouting the player. + Mmanager, who is selling, gets more cheer-up from it. Currently is now, I put 8 players on market and I have no information, did someone like them or what. Would be great, if manager, who sells player, can see what teams did add the player to their shortlist --- then can communicate and tell the stories. d) On market view, under bid history there should be little box with memo from manager -- so he can leave short message about player or what ever - lets say about 20-30 letters: mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm = 30 I think this mysterygame about maxings (for non-CM) can be cracked anyways, if seller is honest -- interested manager just messages him or friend who has CM (he can check the player). If no answer, no info then no deal, sometimes. Sometimes the answer will not come, because seller-manager was away or buys, what ever. 2) update manuals (game has changed, some info missing or outdated much) 3) need to rebuild system to get better contact with newbies (somewhere should be list where we see like 100 per page latest newcomemrs -- so we can easily click them and send "spam" - welcome message, that "hey, welcome to MZ. When you need any advice, message me, ...". 3) Registered teams should have markets open + "temporary" starting team -- to force maangers to buy players from markets. Win = there will come debt from players, usually some x players managers tell to release. Why? Better sell them to newcommers and newcommers can sell them to next. 4) Days Since Purchase Tax Rate ≤ 28 days [color=red]95%[/color] ---------- while this is so big %, NO salaries should be in that time for players. Else it is more "profitable" to just release player (example: when buying player with 1 euro etc). ≤ 70 days 50% > 70 days 15% No salaries for 4 weeks = managers babysit more players (more fun from training reports, coaches can be little cheaper in theory by divinding the expenses). And after 4 weeks the profits have 50% taxes = can maybe make some profit = grattitudes from continuing training a player for a month. When running League and U23 League together, team needs 2 setups for tactics (in both different players), want to play in U18 and U21 too? Then You need 3 teams, else can't run form properly (it all gets so messy and goes time-consuming). My A-team is basically U23. So I play with them already in 4 games + cups. B team I need, because I have 23 youths. half are in camp, half want to get experience. So I play with them friendlies. When my youth will be seniors, I have to get rid of part of my old A-team. I have to sell my youths. Because I can't pay salaries. I am fine that I sell. But nobody NEEDS to buy them, really, no profits. I would prefer, instead to gamble with markets. Buy-train-sell whole time. = MANAGERzone So.. Nobody want to buy my players, who served me well or they still have some potential? Then must make demand for them. New managers should have temporary team, which will leave after 3 weeks (or so), after manager signed up to MZ. 4 weeks no salaries = if currently no new managers signed up = old maangers can babysit potential players for that time, at least. If I need to get rid of 10+ players together, why I need to sell them for pennies? Why I have to release them? The more money goes around in all divisions, the more attractive the game will be for managers. 5) And I think when crew are playing with 3D projects their profits are portfolio and skillings. If SIM will interact with 3D in "dicing" - there left-right feet and height/weight can have input. 6) I really don't get it, why managers are forced to play for a country they register in. Open borders? But really, make a rule for naming clubs then - it has to have connection with desired country (assistants will judge it). 7) 42(s) + 23(y) players can use training field. 13 can be sent to camp. Max training possible is 78 (+ youth condition camps). What if those clubs, which have more players to train, get more money from stadium? (logics: more teams, more games, more supporters, more sponsors). I have currently 28 players on training field, 13 on camp + 1 YC camp = 42 total I think 45 total is my limit in this divison. Currently paying 158 000 for youth/salaries. 53k to staff. *** P.S. I had to make big cuts to budget, sold better players + released great coaches. Offer: If club has 40-49 players, he can build stadium 5% larger (than normally), gets 5% more revenue in theory. (from 300k its 15k) If club has 50-59 players, he can build stadium 10% larger (than normally), gets 10% more revenue in theory. from 300k its 30k) If club has 60-69 players, he can build stadium 15% larger (than normally), gets 15% more revenue in theory. from 300k its 45k) If club has 70+ players, he can build stadium 20% larger (than normally), gets 20% more revenue, in theory. from 300k its 45k) = motivation to take more seniors (and one/some more expensive) motivation to hire more expensive coaches (more stars) can continue building stadium 8) advertising --- easiest part. But first.. those edits needed. SIM is issue for "bosses" - newcommers need markets. OK, I got tired now.With MZ can make profits. And no need to start from scratch.

1) update markets -- it needs to be more interactive

a) 2 more lists (200 per page):
last 200 players added to market
last 200 players sold in market
* turn on/off : show only domestic players / hide x (multi) nation
* notify me when new domestic player is put on market


b) Since game lacks (it lacks?) of managers, maybe give more time for biddings. 1-2-3 days are not enough. Maybe make steps 2-5-10 days, instead
* When player got new ball in skill while he is on market, add it to market view, too, so player will be more attractive.

b2) "Cancel sale" = When manager did put player to market for 10 days,, and changes mind in some reasons, he can hope he can cancel the sale. When clicks "cancel", the player view gets info about that in market, like: "Offer will be canceled in 2 days (and counting less, in hours, "1 day 22h") if no bids come".
--- Maybe manager wants to raise or lower the price (example: i did put 8-tac player to market, next day he got 9th and not maxed.. boomer.. market didn't show 9th ball and too low starting price, fail, went with pennies) or just wants to keep the player, still.


c) Shortlisting should be more popular and have extra function:
Since Sale Period would be longer, more managers might add players to Shortlist (wishlist).
Shortlist-wishlist should show counter in market - how many managers are scouting the player.
+ Mmanager, who is selling, gets more cheer-up from it. Currently is now, I put 8 players on market and I have no information, did someone like them or what. Would be great, if manager, who sells player, can see what teams did add the player to their shortlist --- then can communicate and tell the stories.


d) On market view, under bid history there should be little box with memo from manager -- so he can leave short message about player or what ever - lets say about 20-30 letters:
mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm = 30
I think this mysterygame about maxings (for non-CM) can be cracked anyways, if seller is honest -- interested manager just messages him or friend who has CM (he can check the player). If no answer, no info then no deal, sometimes. Sometimes the answer will not come, because seller-manager was away or buys, what ever.





2) update manuals (game has changed, some info missing or outdated much)


3) need to rebuild system to get better contact with newbies (somewhere should be list where we see like 100 per page latest newcomemrs -- so we can easily click them and send "spam" - welcome message, that "hey, welcome to MZ. When you need any advice, message me, ...".


3) Registered teams should have markets open + "temporary" starting team -- to force maangers to buy players from markets.
Win = there will come debt from players, usually some x players managers tell to release. Why? Better sell them to newcommers and newcommers can sell them to next.


4) Days Since Purchase Tax Rate
≤ 28 days 95% ---------- while this is so big %, NO salaries should be in that time for players. Else it is more "profitable" to just release player (example: when buying player with 1 euro etc).
≤ 70 days 50%
> 70 days 15%

No salaries for 4 weeks = managers babysit more players (more fun from training reports, coaches can be little cheaper in theory by divinding the expenses). And after 4 weeks the profits have 50% taxes = can maybe make some profit = grattitudes from continuing training a player for a month.


When running League and U23 League together, team needs 2 setups for tactics (in both different players), want to play in U18 and U21 too? Then You need 3 teams, else can't run form properly (it all gets so messy and goes time-consuming). My A-team is basically U23. So I play with them already in 4 games + cups.
B team I need, because I have 23 youths. half are in camp, half want to get experience. So I play with them friendlies.

When my youth will be seniors, I have to get rid of part of my old A-team. I have to sell my youths. Because I can't pay salaries. I am fine that I sell. But nobody NEEDS to buy them, really, no profits. I would prefer, instead to gamble with markets. Buy-train-sell whole time. = MANAGERzone



So.. Nobody want to buy my players, who served me well or they still have some potential? Then must make demand for them. New managers should have temporary team, which will leave after 3 weeks (or so), after manager signed up to MZ.

4 weeks no salaries = if currently no new managers signed up = old maangers can babysit potential players for that time, at least.

If I need to get rid of 10+ players together, why I need to sell them for pennies?
Why I have to release them?

The more money goes around in all divisions, the more attractive the game will be for managers.



5) And I think when crew are playing with 3D projects their profits are portfolio and skillings.
If SIM will interact with 3D in "dicing" - there left-right feet and height/weight can have input.


6) I really don't get it, why managers are forced to play for a country they register in. Open borders? But really, make a rule for naming clubs then - it has to have connection with desired country (assistants will judge it).




7) 42(s) + 23(y) players can use training field. 13 can be sent to camp. Max training possible is 78 (+ youth condition camps).

What if those clubs, which have more players to train, get more money from stadium?
(logics: more teams, more games, more supporters, more sponsors).

I have currently 28 players on training field, 13 on camp + 1 YC camp = 42 total
I think 45 total is my limit in this divison.
Currently paying 158 000 for youth/salaries. 53k to staff. *** P.S. I had to make big cuts to budget, sold better players + released great coaches.


Offer:
If club has 40-49 players, he can build stadium 5% larger (than normally), gets 5% more revenue in theory. (from 300k its 15k)
If club has 50-59 players, he can build stadium 10% larger (than normally), gets 10% more revenue in theory. from 300k its 30k)
If club has 60-69 players, he can build stadium 15% larger (than normally), gets 15% more revenue in theory. from 300k its 45k)
If club has 70+ players, he can build stadium 20% larger (than normally), gets 20% more revenue, in theory. from 300k its 45k)

=
motivation to take more seniors (and one/some more expensive)
motivation to hire more expensive coaches (more stars)
can continue building stadium


8) advertising --- easiest part.
But first.. those edits needed.
SIM is issue for "bosses" - newcommers need markets.



OK, I got tired now.

Edited: 23-01-2019 03:24
Total edits: 2

Re: MZ - The downfall

By aldebaran - 23-01-2019 11:08

the game already has enough cash inflow, hence the ludicrous amount of final transfer bids for players with potential there's been another thread in the past, regarding inflation in MZ but forget about that, opinions tend to differ about the need(or not) of more cash inflow in the end, we will still be here talking/arguing about the SIM and the tactics, even though MZ, at its core, is just another management game (and like you, I love management games and that's the main reason why I'm still here playing MZ, albeit with less interest than the one I had back in late 2002 when I first started)the game already has enough cash inflow, hence the ludicrous amount of final transfer bids for players with potential

there's been another thread in the past, regarding inflation in MZ

but forget about that, opinions tend to differ about the need(or not) of more cash inflow

in the end, we will still be here talking/arguing about the SIM and the tactics, even though MZ, at its core, is just another management game (and like you, I love management games and that's the main reason why I'm still here playing MZ, albeit with less interest than the one I had back in late 2002 when I first started)

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 13:47

That cash has gone all to build stadium and to fix finances. Still can see -- 30+ more seniors can be trained on field. Could take all A coaches. Can't take all as B-9 (must take cheaper B-8). Can't have B coaches for spare (like to train just 1 or 2 players, too expensive). And with around 45 players total -- the skills are not that great, they are low-class players, can't think and can't afford superplayers - if salary is 10k+, then I think I better take 2x 6k salaries. So that 4 weeks no salary = like little caroussel. Can buy, use them for x time and sell again (with profit 50%). Or keep them. If I want to buy mid-class players, no money. If players get trained more + youths come seniors - no money. So.. the cash should go around more. And game should value those low-classed players, too. Not to have politics to "just release them". Why game uses resources (techn) to produce crap? That crap must be in demand, too.That cash has gone all to build stadium and to fix finances.
Still can see -- 30+ more seniors can be trained on field. Could take all A coaches. Can't take all as B-9 (must take cheaper B-8). Can't have B coaches for spare (like to train just 1 or 2 players, too expensive). And with around 45 players total -- the skills are not that great, they are low-class players, can't think and can't afford superplayers - if salary is 10k+, then I think I better take 2x 6k salaries.

So that 4 weeks no salary = like little caroussel. Can buy, use them for x time and sell again (with profit 50%). Or keep them.

If I want to buy mid-class players, no money. If players get trained more + youths come seniors - no money.

So.. the cash should go around more. And game should value those low-classed players, too. Not to have politics to "just release them". Why game uses resources (techn) to produce crap? That crap must be in demand, too.

Edited: 23-01-2019 13:48
Total edits: 1

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 14:31

[POLSKA]

Please be polite and re-name the club names haha. That would make no sense, first of all I'm a free man and I can't have whatever name I want as long it's no offending, secondly, change the name to Irish for who? there is maybe 1-3 managers from Ireland, actually Irish people speak English not Irish. If there was an option to choose your country as you said, then the game would be dead in a week ! why? every one would switch to countries like Brazil, Poland, Argentina etc, and the National competitivenes would be over forever, because who would like to stay in lets say Ireland, Wales or Belarus for example. Do you think people don't join the game because they can't understand the meaning of the team? haha, google translator is there.

raamatupood wrote:

My call to Polish people was: until rules are like they are, please work together, be polite, and rename your clubs to Irish-like. Then maybe things get better.

If you can't play in Poland league, but want more managers to join the game, think widely. Ireland leagues have to be more attractive for Irish people, so they get better connection with their flag and so on.

It is not "attack" against your club names/nation, it is suggestion, so you get more managers to your leagues. More transfers, more divisions, better competition. Just try it. Maybe it works.

Please be polite and re-name the club names haha. That would make no sense, first of all I'm a free man and I can't have whatever name I want as long it's no offending, secondly, change the name to Irish for who? there is maybe 1-3 managers from Ireland, actually Irish people speak English not Irish.

If there was an option to choose your country as you said, then the game would be dead in a week ! why? every one would switch to countries like Brazil, Poland, Argentina etc, and the National competitivenes would be over forever, because who would like to stay in lets say Ireland, Wales or Belarus for example.

Do you think people don't join the game because they can't understand the meaning of the team? haha, google translator is there.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 14:37

[POLSKA]

sorry for another post, cant edit. [b]"They don't get feeling that it is game where they could manage Ireland soccer club, they get feeling it is just another random commercial site, where Polish (or any random other nation) dominate."[/b] OMG, you don't understand Ireland too much, I live here many years, and if you walk in Dublin you''ll see more foreign people than Irish. Every little shop, fast food have not Irish worker in it. In my secondary school few years ago in my class there was 3 Irish student per 20. They are used to this country be like USA, no problem for them. Another thing Irish people let that happend that Irish MZ is dominated by Polish/Brazilians etc, not out fault, why they don't ask friends to make an Irish wave and get 100 new Irish lads to register. Anyway it's not only Ireland, look at UK and USA in the game. Polish people also keep the English MZ alive, maybe not like Ireland but UK have many Polish managers too.sorry for another post, cant edit.

"They don't get feeling that it is game where they could manage Ireland soccer club, they get feeling it is just another random commercial site, where Polish (or any random other nation) dominate."

OMG, you don't understand Ireland too much, I live here many years, and if you walk in Dublin you''ll see more foreign people than Irish. Every little shop, fast food have not Irish worker in it. In my secondary school few years ago in my class there was 3 Irish student per 20. They are used to this country be like USA, no problem for them.

Another thing Irish people let that happend that Irish MZ is dominated by Polish/Brazilians etc, not out fault, why they don't ask friends to make an Irish wave and get 100 new Irish lads to register.

Anyway it's not only Ireland, look at UK and USA in the game. Polish people also keep the English MZ alive, maybe not like Ireland but UK have many Polish managers too.

Sv: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_7550185 - 23-01-2019 14:45

Hey Guys! I contacted the CEO of Stillfront and Managerzone is for sale but they want millions of SEK. Approximately 4-500 000 dollars. But it is for sale which I declare it as they know it is on the downfall but as long as the number of paying customers are high, the price will be high. In a way it is sad but who knows what will happen in a period of 2-3 years.Hey Guys! I contacted the CEO of Stillfront and Managerzone is for sale but they want millions of SEK. Approximately 4-500 000 dollars. But it is for sale which I declare it as they know it is on the downfall but as long as the number of paying customers are high, the price will be high. In a way it is sad but who knows what will happen in a period of 2-3 years.

Sv: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_7550185 - 23-01-2019 14:49

As I see it, there has to be a clear vision about the future. An office, people who are good at programming, servers, computers etc. We thought of creating a fundrasing but I think that we will place it on hold until the future. There is no way we can fund 4-500 000 dollars from all the members.As I see it, there has to be a clear vision about the future. An office, people who are good at programming, servers, computers etc.
We thought of creating a fundrasing but I think that we will place it on hold until the future. There is no way we can fund 4-500 000 dollars from all the members.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 16:48

@ lukaszsz182 I really don't care what you are talking. You read my post, take little parts of text and then just continue arguing about these. You didn't understand anything I wanted to tell there. That case is closed for 3 days already, for me. @ cm33 It would be cheaper and profitable for them to just update the game. SIM fixes are easy, I think - just need to tweak some numbers in formulas + maybe add some extra IF-s. Main problem is to get newbies addicted right at start. Like I noted out -- newbies join MANAGERzone game and transfers are locked for them for x time. This game can be offered for "dealers" and for soccerfans. When someone wants to know what game it is ... ... 1) wants to know what all game offers to him 2) to play some games for long period, short first period after sign-up will make decisions - is it worth to wait and see is this game alright or not? 3) if game seems boring after sign-up, user might forget game, is not comming back = trainings/leagues are taking more time; markets are faster contacts . 4) when game tells manager has to find in 3 weeks new team, because the first temporary team will leave = manager goes to check markets, makes first bids = some extra excitement to wait, when will the new players arrive + also can see well-pumped players on market, to understand this game has leves/big money and all. 5) if manager can't make it, to change temp team for real team, what he will do? Quit? After he has tried it for 2-3 weeks? No. He will start to look for help, finds forums and all.@ lukaszsz182

I really don't care what you are talking. You read my post, take little parts of text and then just continue arguing about these. You didn't understand anything I wanted to tell there.
That case is closed for 3 days already, for me.

@ cm33
It would be cheaper and profitable for them to just update the game.
SIM fixes are easy, I think - just need to tweak some numbers in formulas + maybe add some extra IF-s.
Main problem is to get newbies addicted right at start. Like I noted out -- newbies join MANAGERzone game and transfers are locked for them for x time.
This game can be offered for "dealers" and for soccerfans.

When someone wants to know what game it is ...
...
1) wants to know what all game offers to him
2) to play some games for long period, short first period after sign-up will make decisions - is it worth to wait and see is this game alright or not?
3) if game seems boring after sign-up, user might forget game, is not comming back = trainings/leagues are taking more time; markets are faster contacts .
4) when game tells manager has to find in 3 weeks new team, because the first temporary team will leave = manager goes to check markets, makes first bids = some extra excitement to wait, when will the new players arrive + also can see well-pumped players on market, to understand this game has leves/big money and all.
5) if manager can't make it, to change temp team for real team, what he will do? Quit? After he has tried it for 2-3 weeks? No. He will start to look for help, finds forums and all.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 17:31

[POLSKA]

I don't care what you're saying too. Just dont force anyone to do anything, we are free people, communism doesn't apply to MZ. I'm in europe and can have european name of my team. This subject is over for me too, no point to keep going.I don't care what you're saying too. Just dont force anyone to do anything, we are free people, communism doesn't apply to MZ. I'm in europe and can have european name of my team. This subject is over for me too, no point to keep going.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 18:22

Cool story. I think MZ should have borders open, so "weird" club names would be all normal in every country leagues. [color=red]I give warning to myself. //raamatupood[/color]Cool story. I think MZ should have borders open, so "weird" club names would be all normal in every country leagues.

I give warning to myself. //raamatupood

Edited: 23-01-2019 19:40
Total edits: 2

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 19:05

Opening borders would be logical step, because some country leagues have lost the "nationality" value anyways - only players and staff have local names, but club names are mixed. Maybe it would be even useful. I checked transfers. 26 (+) pages of Polish players on market.. So.. Polish managers could sign up in Ukraine and other smaller MZ countries, to burst activity more up. Then after year we can check this mixing, did it more good or bad to local communities (can check the % of natives activity).Opening borders would be logical step, because some country leagues have lost the "nationality" value anyways - only players and staff have local names, but club names are mixed.

Maybe it would be even useful. I checked transfers. 26 (+) pages of Polish players on market.. So.. Polish managers could sign up in Ukraine and other smaller MZ countries, to burst activity more up. Then after year we can check this mixing, did it more good or bad to local communities (can check the % of natives activity).

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 19:34

England and Germany 3 pages, France 2 pages of players in market.. Awful. Argentina, Brazil 26+, Sweden 17 pages. Turkey 19. China only 12 pages. Oh yes, this game needs advertising in facebook and other sites.England and Germany 3 pages, France 2 pages of players in market.. Awful.

Argentina, Brazil 26+,
Sweden 17 pages. Turkey 19.
China only 12 pages.

Oh yes, this game needs advertising in facebook and other sites.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By darkline - 23-01-2019 20:10

[FLUSA]
President

I don't know the prices of the tokens in Estonia, but I'm pretty sure they're awfully cheap.... why? Because they have a lot of managers considering the population in the Country, most large communities in MZ are large because they have inexpensive tokens. Actually players can have any name you want, on my team you'll find players like Judas Priest, Ozzy Osbourne, Axl Rose, Johnny Cash and Robert Plant, I'm thinking on switching from football manager to music talent manager.I don't know the prices of the tokens in Estonia, but I'm pretty sure they're awfully cheap.... why? Because they have a lot of managers considering the population in the Country, most large communities in MZ are large because they have inexpensive tokens.

raamatupood wrote:

Opening borders would be logical step, because some country leagues have lost the "nationality" value anyways - only players and staff have local names, but club names are mixed.

Actually players can have any name you want, on my team you'll find players like Judas Priest, Ozzy Osbourne, Axl Rose, Johnny Cash and Robert Plant, I'm thinking on switching from football manager to music talent manager.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 21:16

[POLSKA]

Wierd names? Let's go through names in so called "wierd Irish league names". +1 for giving yourself a warning, you deserve one haha, borders, omg :D good fun with you. at least forum is alive. OK back to names now: [b]1948 MKS:[/b] this name is connected to the Polish team MKS Pogoń Szczecin, founded in 1948. [b]Galaktikos:[/b] nickname for Real Madrid in Polish. [b]KS Górnik Wałbrzych 1946:[/b] it's my team, name of my beloved team that play in the Polish 4th division in real life. see? don't care about Man city, Barca etc, my Polish team in 4th division is all it matters ! [b]Nieopierzone Młokosy[/b]: fledgling youngsters, omg really wierd. [b]Malinowe Nosy:[/b] Nickname of the Polish team Śląsk Wrocław. [b]White Eagle AFC:[/b] Polish team but English name. Happy now? [b]COPERNICUS TORUŃ:[/b] Copernicus means a Polish famous astronomer guy (in Latin), Toruń is a name of the Polish City. [b]Makaroniarze Tczew FC:[/b] Makaroniarze means Italians in Polish, Tczew is a name of the Polish city, and FC- football club. [b]Drink Team:[/b] Polish manager again with the English name. Happy again :D [b]RAKOWIAK SALLINS:[/b] Rakowiak nickname of the Polish team, Sallins is an Irish town. I think that's all for the Polish teams. All wierd names haha. Once again, it's fair this way, my location is Ireland my team should be in Ireland. Someones location is in Marocco his team should be in Marocco. Registration location is all that matters and it should stay this way. Choosing a country would be bad, instead of I don't know 30 we would have 5 countries in MZ. you give out about Ireland but if choosing location would exist then Ireland would be dead in MZ, because all of us Polish people would move to Poland...Wierd names?

Let's go through names in so called "wierd Irish league names". +1 for giving yourself a warning, you deserve one haha, borders, omg :D good fun with you. at least forum is alive.

OK back to names now:

1948 MKS: this name is connected to the Polish team MKS Pogoń Szczecin, founded in 1948.

Galaktikos: nickname for Real Madrid in Polish.

KS Górnik Wałbrzych 1946: it's my team, name of my beloved team that play in the Polish 4th division in real life. see? don't care about Man city, Barca etc, my Polish team in 4th division is all it matters !

Nieopierzone Młokosy: fledgling youngsters, omg really wierd.

Malinowe Nosy: Nickname of the Polish team Śląsk Wrocław.

White Eagle AFC: Polish team but English name. Happy now?

COPERNICUS TORUŃ: Copernicus means a Polish famous astronomer guy (in Latin), Toruń is a name of the Polish City.

Makaroniarze Tczew FC: Makaroniarze means Italians in Polish, Tczew is a name of the Polish city, and FC- football club.

Drink Team: Polish manager again with the English name. Happy again :D

RAKOWIAK SALLINS: Rakowiak nickname of the Polish team, Sallins is an Irish town.

I think that's all for the Polish teams. All wierd names haha. Once again, it's fair this way, my location is Ireland my team should be in Ireland. Someones location is in Marocco his team should be in Marocco. Registration location is all that matters and it should stay this way. Choosing a country would be bad, instead of I don't know 30 we would have 5 countries in MZ. you give out about Ireland but if choosing location would exist then Ireland would be dead in MZ, because all of us Polish people would move to Poland...

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 21:16

That is funny, yes. [img]https://i.imgur.com/VmL4Ux5.jpg[/img]That is funny, yes.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 21:19

[POLSKA]

well done for being stubborn im the same, always like to fight for my right [H]well done for being stubborn im the same, always like to fight for my right

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 21:20

I have been in Torun, nice city - that name I understand. Calm down with your Poland, yes yes, very strong and brave all, everything is super powerful. P.S. I thought "makaron" means pasta food.I have been in Torun, nice city - that name I understand.

Calm down with your Poland, yes yes, very strong and brave all, everything is super powerful.

P.S. I thought "makaron" means pasta food.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 21:22

[POLSKA]

Ye but Makaroniarze it's a nickname for Italians. Because they are experts in pasta :D.Ye but Makaroniarze it's a nickname for Italians. Because they are experts in pasta :D.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 21:24

[POLSKA]

Look at the translator haha, it's a nickname but it says Italians according to the google translator.[img]http://oi68.tinypic.com/2qntycg.jpg[/img]Look at the translator haha, it's a nickname but it says Italians according to the google translator.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 21:28

[POLSKA]

Now, just reading the post above, somebody said MZ is for sale? so if it won't sell then what? end like a http://powersoccer.com/ which was run by the same crew? hopefully not... the new owners may kill the game, they won;t have a clue, and change this game completely. Anyone can confirm it's for sell?Now, just reading the post above, somebody said MZ is for sale? so if it won't sell then what? end like a http://powersoccer.com/ which was run by the same crew? hopefully not...

the new owners may kill the game, they won;t have a clue, and change this game completely. Anyone can confirm it's for sell?

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 23-01-2019 21:30

@ Darkline are you thinking about total Mixtape? Megamix 2019, where DJ USA makes the beat in Tokyo tower and on the floor there are Canadians, Italinas, Lithuaninans and everybody together, wearing products from all countries, and then trading these and nobody cares who has less, who more, main thing everybody can get what they need so the music won't stop?@ Darkline are you thinking about total Mixtape?

Megamix 2019, where DJ USA makes the beat in Tokyo tower and on the floor there are Canadians, Italinas, Lithuaninans and everybody together, wearing products from all countries, and then trading these and nobody cares who has less, who more, main thing everybody can get what they need so the music won't stop?

Sv: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_7550185 - 23-01-2019 21:58

It is for sale. I contacted the CEO of Stillfront who owns powerchallenge. We in the swedish community thought of maybe buying the platform but CEO wants 4-500 000 dollars which is too much. We are tired of this game being mistreated. The decrease in revenues, number of playing managers, higher prices etc. The development of this game has been very poor the last couple of years. We all believe the game is in need for a big change, especially with new owners who truly are dedicated to this game. Sooner of later Managerzone will be a game where you have pay to play. But, there has to be a plan. As you said, there is no point of overtaking a game if we cant run in. Who knows, maybe it will be cheaper in a couple of years.

lukaszsz182 wrote:

Now, just reading the post above, somebody said MZ is for sale? so if it won't sell then what? end like a http://powersoccer.com/ which was run by the same crew? hopefully not...

the new owners may kill the game, they won;t have a clue, and change this game completely. Anyone can confirm it's for sell?

It is for sale. I contacted the CEO of Stillfront who owns powerchallenge. We in the swedish community thought of maybe buying the platform but CEO wants 4-500 000 dollars which is too much. We are tired of this game being mistreated. The decrease in revenues, number of playing managers, higher prices etc. The development of this game has been very poor the last couple of years.
We all believe the game is in need for a big change, especially with new owners who truly are dedicated to this game. Sooner of later Managerzone will be a game where you have pay to play.

But, there has to be a plan. As you said, there is no point of overtaking a game if we cant run in. Who knows, maybe it will be cheaper in a couple of years.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By webregas - 23-01-2019 22:21

[ENG]

I've been back for a few months now and the userbase/ competitiveness of the leagues is chronic but still salvageable if CREW took a step back and evaluated where the heartbeat of the game generates from: If you consider that fundamentally the enjoyment sustained users have for this game is the long term strategy aspect why are these users not the primary focus of development? Users who don't adhere to this concept and burn out after a couple of seasons aren't a viable revenue stream and for me the biggest flaw the game has had is trying to cater and position to these instant gratification users. (focus on 3D engine, aesthetics, gimic cups and short term advantage through purchase). Recommendations: (my consultancy fee is free btw, I genuinely want to see this game restored to it's former glory). Strip it right back to the only advantage a member having over a non member being visibility of maxings and reduce membership costs to previous levels. This will make the game accessible to the right target users and engage them into spending money when they are mentally/ emotionally invested and in a position to operate in the transfer market. Keep the in game purchase options (cups, player accessories etc) as a separate revenue stream that doesn't impact ability to be competitive in national leagues. and.. above all else move the marketing messaging away from a focus on the 3D match engine and winning games (which then disappoints new users expecting PS4 Sim graphics and who become frustrated with the 'slow' youth and build approach) to a position of this being the best long term strategy game available free online. Essentially stop pretending this is something it's not. Click through rate may be less as result (questionable given what the userbase currently) but guaranteed conversion/ sustained sign up will be higher. People are 74+% more likely to buy on recommendation/ positive online reviews > get the right user profile signing up in the first place and watch the organic growth as a consequence. Do crew ever respond to these threads anymore? I read mention of investors - where can I read their current plans for the platform?I've been back for a few months now and the userbase/ competitiveness of the leagues is chronic but still salvageable if CREW took a step back and evaluated where the heartbeat of the game generates from:

If you consider that fundamentally the enjoyment sustained users have for this game is the long term strategy aspect why are these users not the primary focus of development?

Users who don't adhere to this concept and burn out after a couple of seasons aren't a viable revenue stream and for me the biggest flaw the game has had is trying to cater and position to these instant gratification users. (focus on 3D engine, aesthetics, gimic cups and short term advantage through purchase).

Recommendations: (my consultancy fee is free btw, I genuinely want to see this game restored to it's former glory). Strip it right back to the only advantage a member having over a non member being visibility of maxings and reduce membership costs to previous levels. This will make the game accessible to the right target users and engage them into spending money when they are mentally/ emotionally invested and in a position to operate in the transfer market. Keep the in game purchase options (cups, player accessories etc) as a separate revenue stream that doesn't impact ability to be competitive in national leagues.

and.. above all else move the marketing messaging away from a focus on the 3D match engine and winning games (which then disappoints new users expecting PS4 Sim graphics and who become frustrated with the 'slow' youth and build approach) to a position of this being the best long term strategy game available free online. Essentially stop pretending this is something it's not. Click through rate may be less as result (questionable given what the userbase currently) but guaranteed conversion/ sustained sign up will be higher. People are 74+% more likely to buy on recommendation/ positive online reviews > get the right user profile signing up in the first place and watch the organic growth as a consequence.

Do crew ever respond to these threads anymore? I read mention of investors - where can I read their current plans for the platform?

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 23-01-2019 22:39

[POLSKA]

It's rare that crew will respond to this threads. They have another which is called "admin forum", I was RA for many years for Irish hockey so I had access, and they only respond there. This forum means nothing. My advice is this, to join the weak activity leagues together, so let's say UK & Ireland as one league, Norway, Finland, etc together. Belarus,Lithuania, Latvia etc. It would be more fun. But they won't listen. They listen when you buy tokens.It's rare that crew will respond to this threads. They have another which is called "admin forum", I was RA for many years for Irish hockey so I had access, and they only respond there. This forum means nothing. My advice is this, to join the weak activity leagues together, so let's say UK & Ireland as one league, Norway, Finland, etc together. Belarus,Lithuania, Latvia etc. It would be more fun. But they won't listen. They listen when you buy tokens.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By darkline - 23-01-2019 22:53

[FLUSA]
President

No idea what you just said, but you can google my player's names if you don't know them... they're quite famous [:D] Can't be done, it would mean having to reset all the teams in those leagues so basically, you'll lose all your players & money and would have to start from scratch, I doubt many people would be happy to do that. Can't say if that's too much without knowing the revenue, how long will it take to recover your investment? 1 year? 10 years? Is the game even profitable or they're operating at a loss? Without knowing that, you can't tell if the price quoted is cheap or expensive.

raamatupood wrote:

@ Darkline are you thinking about total Mixtape?

Megamix 2019, where DJ USA makes the beat in Tokyo tower and on the floor there are Canadians, Italinas, Lithuaninans and everybody together, wearing products from all countries, and then trading these and nobody cares who has less, who more, main thing everybody can get what they need so the music won't stop?

No idea what you just said, but you can google my player's names if you don't know them... they're quite famous :D

lukaszsz182 wrote:

It's rare that crew will respond to this threads. They have another which is called "admin forum", I was RA for many years for Irish hockey so I had access, and they only respond there. This forum means nothing. My advice is this, to join the weak activity leagues together, so let's say UK & Ireland as one league, Norway, Finland, etc together. Belarus,Lithuania, Latvia etc. It would be more fun.

Can't be done, it would mean having to reset all the teams in those leagues so basically, you'll lose all your players & money and would have to start from scratch, I doubt many people would be happy to do that.

cm33 wrote:

It is for sale. I contacted the CEO of Stillfront who owns powerchallenge. We in the swedish community thought of maybe buying the platform but CEO wants 4-500 000 dollars which is too much.

Can't say if that's too much without knowing the revenue, how long will it take to recover your investment? 1 year? 10 years? Is the game even profitable or they're operating at a loss? Without knowing that, you can't tell if the price quoted is cheap or expensive.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By kingjaime - 23-01-2019 23:58

[BVB]

This thing about buying powerchallenge/ManagerZone... If someone's in touch with them about selling it, could you check what the price is in Power Tokens? Or, better yet, in team money? Really at a price of $400k - $500k, notwithstanding some amazing profitable surprises being discovered by an audit, I've got to think they're talking about the value in team money. (I was going to insert a shrug or something there but I see emoticons are a Club Member exclusive, how amusing.)This thing about buying powerchallenge/ManagerZone... If someone's in touch with them about selling it, could you check what the price is in Power Tokens? Or, better yet, in team money?

Really at a price of $400k - $500k, notwithstanding some amazing profitable surprises being discovered by an audit, I've got to think they're talking about the value in team money. (I was going to insert a shrug or something there but I see emoticons are a Club Member exclusive, how amusing.)

Re: MZ - The downfall

By manekaster - 24-01-2019 01:17

[TDF]
President

Haha. Did you guys really name a nationality after pasta? That's hilarious [:D]

lukaszsz182 wrote:

Look at the translator haha, it's a nickname but it says Italians according to the google translator.

Haha. Did you guys really name a nationality after pasta? That's hilarious :D

Re: MZ - The downfall

By manekaster - 24-01-2019 01:30

[TDF]
President

Why would we want to play with Danish and Finnish teams in the senior league rather than playing with Norwegians only? I'm sure most of the Norwegian users would keep our ~80 teams rather than playing in a multi national league. If merging the leagues was the only option, I'd rather start playing Hattrick or go back to the Football Manager series. Yes, it's a small community compared to e.g Sweden or China, but it's still our community, a small family. A community where we can send banter in the chat on or own language, instead of having to write English to our Finnish league rivals.

lukaszsz182 wrote:

My advice is this, to join the weak activity leagues together, so let's say UK & Ireland as one league, Norway, Finland, etc together. Belarus,Lithuania, Latvia etc. It would be more fun. But they won't listen. They listen when you buy tokens.

Why would we want to play with Danish and Finnish teams in the senior league rather than playing with Norwegians only? I'm sure most of the Norwegian users would keep our ~80 teams rather than playing in a multi national league. If merging the leagues was the only option, I'd rather start playing Hattrick or go back to the Football Manager series. Yes, it's a small community compared to e.g Sweden or China, but it's still our community, a small family. A community where we can send banter in the chat on or own language, instead of having to write English to our Finnish league rivals.

Sv: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_7550185 - 24-01-2019 05:43

What do you believe a reasonable price would be? 2015: Revenue - 1,242 million dollars. Net profit: 37 000 dollars. 2016: Revenue - 1,212 million dollars. Net profit: 46 000 dollars. 2017: Revenue - 1,077 million dollars. Net profit: 37 000 dollars.

darkline wrote:

Can't say if that's too much without knowing the revenue, how long will it take to recover your investment? 1 year? 10 years? Is the game even profitable or they're operating at a loss? Without knowing that, you can't tell if the price quoted is cheap or expensive.

What do you believe a reasonable price would be?


2015: Revenue - 1,242 million dollars. Net profit: 37 000 dollars.
2016: Revenue - 1,212 million dollars. Net profit: 46 000 dollars.
2017: Revenue - 1,077 million dollars. Net profit: 37 000 dollars.

Sv: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_7550185 - 24-01-2019 05:47

Approximate 43 000 dollars in net profit every year. For the price of 400 000 dollars, it will take me around 10 years to get my money back! Too expensive in my opinion.Approximate 43 000 dollars in net profit every year. For the price of 400 000 dollars, it will take me around 10 years to get my money back! Too expensive in my opinion.

Отн: MZ - The downfall

By stoilov - 24-01-2019 06:25

[EW]

What up, peeps! I didn't play for about 3 years after I bankrupted my hockey team (it broke my heart) but the itch got me - I had to scratch it. And I still see names I knew from waaaay back then. And just to stir the pot a little - you're all a bunch of cry babies! :-PWhat up, peeps!
I didn't play for about 3 years after I bankrupted my hockey team (it broke my heart) but the itch got me - I had to scratch it. And I still see names I knew from waaaay back then.

And just to stir the pot a little - you're all a bunch of cry babies! :-P

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 24-01-2019 14:47

[POLSKA]

I know what you mean, ok so let's leave your countries, but have a look at Wales, Northern Ireland or Ireland. What motivation would a manager from Wales or N.Ireland have to play this game? Wales have 6 or 7 active managers, Northern Ireland have 5? Ireland have arround 15-16. Scotland bit more. There are other countries that half of the premier league is dead. If they don't pay for the tokens then they can only play friendlies and league matches with ghosts. But if this is not possible to make, then fine. Here is my suggestion for crew, why spend money and strain the servers to have league 2-4 div tables, matches done etc,? there are only inactive teams, most game walkovers etc. Just leave the premier league and div 1 for those countries.

manekaster wrote:

Why would we want to play with Danish and Finnish teams in the senior league rather than playing with Norwegians only? I'm sure most of the Norwegian users would keep our ~80 teams rather than playing in a multi national league. If merging the leagues was the only option, I'd rather start playing Hattrick or go back to the Football Manager series. Yes, it's a small community compared to e.g Sweden or China, but it's still our community, a small family. A community where we can send banter in the chat on or own language, instead of having to write English to our Finnish league rivals.

I know what you mean, ok so let's leave your countries, but have a look at Wales, Northern Ireland or Ireland. What motivation would a manager from Wales or N.Ireland have to play this game? Wales have 6 or 7 active managers, Northern Ireland have 5? Ireland have arround 15-16. Scotland bit more. There are other countries that half of the premier league is dead. If they don't pay for the tokens then they can only play friendlies and league matches with ghosts.

But if this is not possible to make, then fine.

Here is my suggestion for crew, why spend money and strain the servers to have league 2-4 div tables, matches done etc,? there are only inactive teams, most game walkovers etc. Just leave the premier league and div 1 for those countries.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By deleted_8537346 - 24-01-2019 15:05

Weird, that Polish player wants to erase Ireland. What about if Polish players, who dominate 50%+ Ireland's Top League... 1) rename clubs to Ireland 2) spam facebook Ireland's groups/pages to join MZ (politely like a fox) 3) boil some makaronis and wait 4) welcome new managers; you can check them from: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=worldmap (click on Ireland's flag)Weird, that Polish player wants to erase Ireland.

What about if Polish players, who dominate 50%+ Ireland's Top League...

1) rename clubs to Ireland
2) spam facebook Ireland's groups/pages to join MZ (politely like a fox)
3) boil some makaronis and wait
4) welcome new managers; you can check them from:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=worldmap (click on Ireland's flag)

Re: MZ - The downfall

By manekaster - 24-01-2019 17:19

[TDF]
President

Wales, NI and Scotland would at least make sense. Yes, they have their own national teams, FAs and league systems in the real life, but in the end they are all a part of UK. Maybe merge all the UK leagues? Ireland? A more difficult case, as that's a sovereign state. Yes, I know that 99 % speaks English and that Irish is one of the official languages despite the face that only slightly more than 1/3 speaks that language, but they're still a sovereign state. I don't know how many Irish managers there are, and how many (if any) are fortune hunters with VPN from other countries? That said, I consider Poles living in Ireland as "Irish managers", no matter how long they've stayed there. Some might even have spent all their life their, although their mother tongue is Polish. I agree with you on this part of the discussion (sorry [b]@raamatupood[/b]). On the other hand I'm no fan of "VPN traveling" to e.g. Ireland, Moldova or any other country, but I really don't know if that is the case in the Irish league. Not a bad suggestion. At least the lowest leagues. The 2nd division might remain, for who knows if suddenly a group of people start playing MZ, and suddenly the word is on the street and 30 new users in a small country joins within a small period of time. Then the Top Division and 1. division simply won't be enough. Yes, I know it isn't realistic, but it's not impossible. Take my country, Norway, as an example. There are 6 tiers on MZ, but new users are assigned a team in 3.rd division. And there are ~5 new users signing up every season. Then I don't count the one-time-visitors which never visit the game after signing up. There are also always lots of inactive teams in the 2nd division, so all the new teams get promoted, no matter what. There are 108 spots in the 2nd divisions, and barely half of them are filled with active teams. In 3rd division there are 324 spots. Which means that 375 new users have to register and keep playing the game game to fill the 3rd division and for a 4th division to be needed. And 972 more teams for a 5th division to be needed. The same examples applies to most countries with ~the same amount of users. Argentina had 2059 teams in the Kickoff cup. Let's say 25 % of the teams missed out on the free cup. That means that there are ~2750 active teams. 4368 teams are needed to fill the 5th division, which makes it natural to remove all divisions below that as there are still ~1600 inactive spots in the division. Yet they have 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th division! In 9th division there is room for, and I'm not kidding, 224 532 teams. Below 5th division there is room for 332640 teams, which means 166 320 matches between inactive teams only in Argentina. And I haven't started on Poland, Brazil, Turkey, Sweden, Portugal and China, which all have [b]8th div[/b] in their league systems. [b]7th div[/b]: Italy, Ecuador, France, Mexico, and Spain. In most of these countries 5th to 7th div could have been removed. [b]6th div:[/b] Netherlands, Peru, Russia, Romania, Belgium, Chile, Colombia, Denmark, England, Estonia, Germany, Indonesia, USA, Uruguay, and Venezuela. In most of these countries 4th to 6th div could have been removed.

lukaszsz182 wrote:

I know what you mean, ok so let's leave your countries, but have a look at Wales, Northern Ireland or Ireland. What motivation would a manager from Wales or N.Ireland have to play this game? Wales have 6 or 7 active managers, Northern Ireland have 5? Ireland have arround 15-16. Scotland bit more. There are other countries that half of the premier league is dead. If they don't pay for the tokens then they can only play friendlies and league matches with ghosts.

Wales, NI and Scotland would at least make sense. Yes, they have their own national teams, FAs and league systems in the real life, but in the end they are all a part of UK. Maybe merge all the UK leagues? Ireland? A more difficult case, as that's a sovereign state. Yes, I know that 99 % speaks English and that Irish is one of the official languages despite the face that only slightly more than 1/3 speaks that language, but they're still a sovereign state.

I don't know how many Irish managers there are, and how many (if any) are fortune hunters with VPN from other countries? That said, I consider Poles living in Ireland as "Irish managers", no matter how long they've stayed there. Some might even have spent all their life their, although their mother tongue is Polish. I agree with you on this part of the discussion (sorry @raamatupood). On the other hand I'm no fan of "VPN traveling" to e.g. Ireland, Moldova or any other country, but I really don't know if that is the case in the Irish league.

lukaszsz182 wrote:

Here is my suggestion for crew, why spend money and strain the servers to have league 2-4 div tables, matches done etc,? there are only inactive teams, most game walkovers etc. Just leave the premier league and div 1 for those countries.

Not a bad suggestion. At least the lowest leagues. The 2nd division might remain, for who knows if suddenly a group of people start playing MZ, and suddenly the word is on the street and 30 new users in a small country joins within a small period of time. Then the Top Division and 1. division simply won't be enough. Yes, I know it isn't realistic, but it's not impossible.

Take my country, Norway, as an example. There are 6 tiers on MZ, but new users are assigned a team in 3.rd division. And there are ~5 new users signing up every season. Then I don't count the one-time-visitors which never visit the game after signing up. There are also always lots of inactive teams in the 2nd division, so all the new teams get promoted, no matter what. There are 108 spots in the 2nd divisions, and barely half of them are filled with active teams. In 3rd division there are 324 spots. Which means that 375 new users have to register and keep playing the game game to fill the 3rd division and for a 4th division to be needed. And 972 more teams for a 5th division to be needed.

The same examples applies to most countries with ~the same amount of users. Argentina had 2059 teams in the Kickoff cup. Let's say 25 % of the teams missed out on the free cup. That means that there are ~2750 active teams. 4368 teams are needed to fill the 5th division, which makes it natural to remove all divisions below that as there are still ~1600 inactive spots in the division. Yet they have 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th division! In 9th division there is room for, and I'm not kidding, 224 532 teams. Below 5th division there is room for 332640 teams, which means 166 320 matches between inactive teams only in Argentina.

And I haven't started on Poland, Brazil, Turkey, Sweden, Portugal and China, which all have 8th div in their league systems.
7th div: Italy, Ecuador, France, Mexico, and Spain. In most of these countries 5th to 7th div could have been removed.
6th div: Netherlands, Peru, Russia, Romania, Belgium, Chile, Colombia, Denmark, England, Estonia, Germany, Indonesia, USA, Uruguay, and Venezuela. In most of these countries 4th to 6th div could have been removed.

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 24-01-2019 20:17

[POLSKA]

nr 1- NO nr 2 - NO nr 3- NO nr 4- NO happy? you're not Russian by any chance?

raamatupood wrote:

Weird, that Polish player wants to erase Ireland.

What about if Polish players, who dominate 50%+ Ireland's Top League...

1) rename clubs to Ireland
2) spam facebook Ireland's groups/pages to join MZ (politely like a fox)
3) boil some makaronis and wait
4) welcome new managers; you can check them from:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=worldmap (click on Ireland's flag)

nr 1- NO
nr 2 - NO
nr 3- NO
nr 4- NO

happy?

you're not Russian by any chance?

Re: MZ - The downfall

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 24-01-2019 20:19

[POLSKA]

PS. + 80% of top Irish league are from Poland, see? thanks to US we keep IRELAND alive[H][H][H][H][H][H][H]PS. + 80% of top Irish league are from Poland, see? thanks to US we keep IRELAND alive

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