Incorrect username or password

 
28-04-2024 23:39
|
Season 90 · Week 4 · Day 27
|
Online: 5 753

Football

Football » English » ManagerZone talk

MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
I have always been an advocate for a strong correlation between SOT (shots on target) and result. The logic behind this is that users have a much easier time understanding and accepting a loss if the opponent created more chances. You don't want the game to look like a spreadsheet, so having some results against play is both acceptable and needed in my opinion. An occasional 15-10 = 1-2 is ok. However, 35-5 = 0-0 is not needed. Neither is 18-7 = 5-5(!) or 21-1 = 0-1. Such results make users rage-quit in despair. It shouldn't even happen once in a thousand.

"Apple is like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water and my job is to get the shop pointed in the right direction". This was said by Gil Amelio as he was about to be thrown in favor of Steve Jobs. This quote sticks to my mind when I think of the current development of ManagerZone.

ManagerZone has lost +90% of its userbase during the last 10 years or so. The recent 17th Anniversary Cup had a participation of 8 221, even though it was free to non-CMs. MZ Anniversary Cup 2008 had a participation of 144 637. Of course, a large portion of the 144k of users that signed up for the cup back then, were non-paying users. It does however show how unpopular the game has become. Lets use an optimistic estimation and say that the game now has 15k active users (probably less), and that half of the userbase missed out on the recent free cup. So, 15 000 people in the world are playing ManagerZone today. Is it just in my head, or does this number sound ridiculously low? Nowadays, everybody have Internet. Even a mediocre blog in Norway generates more visits per day than 15k.

I have never understood why certain aspects/features exist in the game today. The form-system for one. You'd be surprised how difficult this is for a new user to understand. And it is also difficult to explain it to them. I have a friend who quit this game years ago because he wasn't able to maintain a good form. A simple solution would have been for Crew to remove the chance of players to become tired.
Another user quit this game when both his strikers broke a leg in the same match. We are talking about +40 day injuries.

If a feature makes 0,1% of the users quit the game, then it should be removed. The leakage has to be fixed! I doubt anybody will quit the game because there aren't enough long-term injuries, or because it has become too easy to manage the form.

Then there is the way deterioration was implemented. You fail to understand your users when you remove balls from their beloved players. Yes, it is a small small fraction of the hole ball, but visually it is 1 ball. Look at the image below for a smoother way of implementing deterioration. I spent 1 calorie coming up with this idea, and it is from the very top of my head. A simple icon that shows how far the deterioration process has come. And voila, we can still compare the skills of players from various era.



This player is fully deteriorated (10 out of 10). As a 32 year old, this icon would be approximately 5 out of 10.

Back to the simulator. Did you know that you can win SOT (shots on target) in 91% of the matches in the top-division of WL, and still get relegated? I won SOT in 20 out of 22 matches, but in 12 of the 20 matches I was robbed. Ergo, in 60%(!) of the matches where I won the SOT, I either lost or drew the game.



In Champions Cup I was knocked out despite winning SOT 18-10. The team who beat me went all the way to the final, where they lost against play. Last season ALL 3 Elite cup-finals went against play. Both in Top Teams Cup, Cup Winners Cup and Champions Cup, the team that had the fewest shots on target won the game. The team that got robbed in Top Teams Cup sold out (Ultra Copos). I was thinking of the same (I was the one who lost the Cup Winners Cup). In U18 NE I managed to draw against the bottom team, despite winning SOT 18-7. The result was 5-5! My 8 ball GK (best I have had in years) with great partials, conceded 5 out of 7 shots.

5 hours ago I lost the final of the Fitness Cup S67 against play aswell. It is interesting, but I doubt I have lost SOT in more than a handful of games this entire season, counting official games. It happened once in the league, once in Victory Cup 2018 (grand final).

Then there is U21 Paraguay. Here there was somewhat poetic justice that they knocked out Sweden. Simulator is a bi-product of Swedish comm... socialism. Points for everybody. An extension of "trophies for everybody" that was implemented a few seasons ago. It seems the current Crew forget that this is a game. You won all your games in 5th division? Sure, here you go, special Elite achievement for you.



If Crew wants less users as a way of reducing work load for their servers and hamsters, then I totally understand why they have created such an unfair simulator. I would however be more than a little bit concerned if I was an investor. I have played a heck of a lot of football manager games, and I have never come close to a match-engine where you can get relegated despite winning SOT in 91% of the games.

Recently there was a significant bump in the cost of PT. You probably have seen a lot of teams that has the username "NO MORE PT FOR MZ". Often written in Spanish. I totally understand the move by Crew, because the expenses remain the same. So when income is reduced as a result of their incompetence and lack of understanding this game, then those few souls who remain in this game has to pay way more to keep this sinking ship heading somewhere, anywhere. After all it is better to sink near the bottom of a coral reef than at 1000 meter depths where your only companions will be jelly fish.

Speaking of 3D. One year, almost to this day, a Crew member wrote the following:
"It's a matter of where we want to prioritize our time and effort. Back in 2000-2010 a 3D was a pretty cool thing for a management game to have, but these days people care less about the glossy surface and more about the depth of content. Developing a state-of-the-art 3D would basically exhaust all our available resources, in order to achieve something that we don't actually think the game really needs."

Fast forward a few months, and Crew could inform the community that all available resources was being exhausted in order to create something that the game didn't really need. 3D in all its glory is up and running again, to the awe of all the investors and 10 managers who watch their games in 3D.



I actually had to limit myself, because there probably is a limit to the amount of text in a post. I had a lot to say about the ultra-boring youth system, the lack of staff, facility, statistics, and how the game feels near identical to the game I started playing in 2003.
Edited: 03-02-2019 05:31
Total edits: 2
Views: 8620 Posts: 406
Previous
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Next
 
Last Message

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Cool story.
No, I am not Russian. I am an alien, I came from Uranus / ... / World peace!

Second and final warning to myself // raamatupood
Edited: 25-01-2019 01:13
Total edits: 4

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Polish language is very complicated talking about gramma, Polacy not Polak, just because Polak is used for 1 person, for plural it's Polacy. Every post you write is slagin my country, did somebody give you hard time in Poland when you were there? I didn't say one bad word about Estonia, It's my last post.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
draw. deal. :)

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
raamatupood wrote:
Cool story.
No, I am not Russian. I am an alien, I came from Uranus


I could make so many improper jokes about telling lucasz that you came from Uranus.... sometimes I wish I wouldn't be an MA so I can unleash my inner aemi.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
darkline wrote:
I could make so many improper jokes about telling lucasz that you came from Uranus.... sometimes I wish I wouldn't be an MA so I can unleash my inner aemi.


are you refrencing the opening at the end of the alimentary canal through which solid waste matter leaves the body.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
:) I had same in mind. Feel free to drop jokes on me, I don't mind.

Anyways things are cool. Lucasz told me he has done many years work in TZ, too. Has tried to invite people from real life and so on. They just don't care.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
evosa wrote:
are you refrencing the opening at the end of the alimentary canal through which solid waste matter leaves the body.


He could be speaking about the nasa project of probing Uranus...

*aemi mode online*

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[RAF]
President
I also had the opportunity to advertise MZ on real Liga 1 banners, at games with millions of people as an audience. Did I do it? No! Why? Because they just don't seem to care about the game and the people who play it, just about the corporation and the people who judge them.

PS: Since when is MZ a sister game of PS???(Continue to be part of the Power Soccer community in our sister game, ManagerZone. PS was born and died long after MZ was born, even if it took part of its life away... And see where that got them!

Отн: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
It took just about forever to read every damn post in this thread - and mostly feels like a waste of time. But since everybody seems to write the story of his life here, there goes mine, along with my unsolicited opinion on most "vital" subjects discussed:

I am from Bulgaria - a small speck on the map somewhere next to the Black Sea. I started playing MZ in 2004. At that time we had around 50 active users maybe. First stream (div 1.1, 2.1 to 2.3, etc) was active, div 1.3 had 4 active teams. That was before the randomization to even up the 3 streams.
We had one user, kokomania (still lurking around occasionally) who started playing around the same time like me, and as we got more hooked up on the game, started making regular forum threads "How to make MZ more popular?" He (and other people) was posting on other games forums, sports forums and any other place having any relevance to football. By 2010 we had over 500 users, largely due to him. All this new wave of users got the help they needed from us so they don't repeat our mistakes in the game and some of our top teams sprung from it.
In the many years I was RA, FA, GA and LA and until before gifting PT was introduced, every season I was paying for a friendly league for 15 non-paying users. The reality in Bulgaria back then was that a lot of people couldn't afford PT, and other big part couldn't shop online. One of the non paying users that took part (and won) my league grew to become a paying user, won the titles in both sports, was a NC in football.
Back then, and continuing now, a lot of our top teams posted in their own guestbook that they will answer any question and help in any way they can.
We have one other user - grivata - who created Federations before MZ. A whole lot of Bulgarian teams have EW or VN or G6 before their names - this is how we showed our federation affiliations, and they still stand. Grivata was organizing competitions, from a direct elimination to an NHL type of season through friendly games - so non paying users can have something to play for and maintain their form in the process.

Moral: We didn't cry MZ is dying, we didn't wait for Crew to do something about it, we, as a community, on a domestic level, invested some efforts in building up a stronger community.
And it paid off. Because we didn't have anybody with the mentality "I pay and I matter, you don't pay and your opinion doesn't matter". More people, more fun. It is as simple as that. In AND out of the game. I live in USA since 2008, And I have gone across the pond to join MZ meetings in different cities back home.
I hate writing novels in forums. I'll give you my 3 cents (yes, 3! I am a paying user so my opinion counts more!) about the sim, youths etc some other time.

Stoilov out!

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
cm33 wrote:
Hey Guys! I contacted the CEO of Stillfront and Managerzone is for sale but they want millions of SEK. Approximately 4-500 000 dollars. But it is for sale which I declare it as they know it is on the downfall but as long as the number of paying customers are high, the price will be high. In a way it is sad but who knows what will happen in a period of 2-3 years.

It is cool that you contacted Stillfront. From your correspondence with him I see that the guy has an account here on MZ, which supports rumors I have heard in the past. He would sometimes throw ideas at Crew based on his own experience as a manager in here. That is a big positive.

It is unrealistic to buy MZ unless you have a lot of money to spare, way more than the actual cost of buying the business. Or you need an investor from day 1. I think it would make more sense to buy shares and gain influence that way, if that is even a possibility. And doesn’t MZ/PC have a few loans that need to be paid as well? I don’t think they would go away when you buy the business.

The fact that Stillfront is listening to offers doesn’t mean that they have given up on the game. If they had, then there would be zero development. But it is concerning that Crew are wasting resources on 3D, because that looks a lot like an attempt to please Stillfront. 3D sounds sexier than improving the simulator or fixing the core elements in this game. Or it could be the other way around, that Stillfront is the one that pushed for a 3D in the first place. In any case, it is not a good scenario, especially since Crew also increased the price of PT significantly in order to make up for lost revenue.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
kingjaime wrote:
Is there not some way you could buy the company hanzi? :)
Perhaps we could do a crowdfunding thing to assist you? I'd give a few quid :)
Your passion for it, still wanting to discuss it and trying to cure and reignite it, after all this time... Wow. It needs someone with passion and a vision. Johan to a point. I never liked that Patrick fella much but at least amidst the stupid way he often expressed and conducted himself I would imagine he was trying... Is there any such person still around nowadays? If there isn't, I repeat the first 2 lines of this post ;)

I am very glad to see that you are still lurking around in the shadows :D

Regarding Patrick: He was super passionate about the game, and that is the reason why he got MZ to the level he did. Because when he took over the steering wheel, the game was practically dead and buried. I don't know where he found time to sleep. That is the kind of passion this game needs, agreed. That, and an understanding how to develop this game so that it attracts new users again. 3D is certainly not the answer, it never was.

In my opinion, the best solution for the game would be to bring Patrick back, if possible. I don't know the reason for his departure. It might have been his own decision, who knows.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
stoilov:

It is perfectly possible to have two thoughts in the head at the same time. To help the community grow and simultaneously be critical as to how this game is being run by voicing your concern. Often these two goes hand in hand, because you need to care about the game in order to be passionate enough to voice your concern when you feel this game is heading towards the cliff.

Bulgaria had a participation of 28 users in the National Cup Bulgaria S68. I guess you need to "get to work"...

Speaking of doing work for the community. It would be peanuts for Crew to create an automatic TZ that is being generated and released on a weekly basis, consisting of the biggest transfers, latest cup winners, live marathon tables etc. They would just need to code the platform for this and scripts to take care of the rest. One global one, and one for each country. It would be a massive boost for all communities. Occasionally Crew could also write a few words in these releases, where they inform us about the direction of the game and this and that. But sadly, they have never seen the value in presenting statistics.

Some examples of statistics missing in the game:

http://thedeepzone.no/core_img/statistikk/wl_marathon.png
http://thedeepzone.no/core_img/statistikk/wl_winners.png
http://thedeepzone.no/core_img/statistikk/u18wl_marathon.png
http://thedeepzone.no/core_img/statistikk/u18wl_winners.png
http://thedeepzone.no/core_img/statistikk/u18_ne_marathon.png
http://thedeepzone.no/core_img/statistikk/u18ne_winners.png

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
lukaszsz182 wrote:
Here is my suggestion for crew, why spend money and strain the servers to have league 2-4 div tables, matches done etc,? there are only inactive teams, most game walkovers etc. Just leave the premier league and div 1 for those countries.

This is not a good idea. If you delete leagues, it also means that you will have to delete teams. There are quite a few cases where users return to the game after months or even years of being inactive. These users are less likely to make a comeback if their original account has been removed. Not to mention that it makes it more difficult to create statistics when teams/accounts are deleted.

I think you guys put too much emphasis on the importance of the domestic league. Nowadays there are WL, regional U-xx leagues and countless international cups. You don’t need to look far in order to find competition.

And then there are those who prefer to be a fish in a small pond. One guy had the option between Norway and South Korea (his own words). He chose the latter. And it seems like he gets a kick out of only meeting inactive teams (even in the top division).

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
@hanz

About 3D, I'm sure they have stats on it, they know how many people watches their games in 3D, what browser they use, etc. etc. etc... if only a small percentile of the managers used the 3D I'm sure they wouldn't use resources to fix it.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
webregas wrote:
I've been back for a few months now and the userbase/ competitiveness of the leagues is chronic but still salvageable if CREW took a step back and evaluated where the heartbeat of the game generates from:

If you consider that fundamentally the enjoyment sustained users have for this game is the long term strategy aspect why are these users not the primary focus of development?

Users who don't adhere to this concept and burn out after a couple of seasons aren't a viable revenue stream and for me the biggest flaw the game has had is trying to cater and position to these instant gratification users. (focus on 3D engine, aesthetics, gimic cups and short term advantage through purchase).

Recommendations: (my consultancy fee is free btw, I genuinely want to see this game restored to it's former glory). Strip it right back to the only advantage a member having over a non member being visibility of maxings and reduce membership costs to previous levels. This will make the game accessible to the right target users and engage them into spending money when they are mentally/ emotionally invested and in a position to operate in the transfer market. Keep the in game purchase options (cups, player accessories etc) as a separate revenue stream that doesn't impact ability to be competitive in national leagues.

and.. above all else move the marketing messaging away from a focus on the 3D match engine and winning games (which then disappoints new users expecting PS4 Sim graphics and who become frustrated with the 'slow' youth and build approach) to a position of this being the best long term strategy game available free online. Essentially stop pretending this is something it's not. Click through rate may be less as result (questionable given what the userbase currently) but guaranteed conversion/ sustained sign up will be higher. People are 74+% more likely to buy on recommendation/ positive online reviews > get the right user profile signing up in the first place and watch the organic growth as a consequence.

Do crew ever respond to these threads anymore? I read mention of investors - where can I read their current plans for the platform?

It is rare that I read such a bulk of text and agree 100%. But that is the case here. Well written! Crew should read this, if they haven't already.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
hanzinho wrote:
Speaking of doing work for the community. It would be peanuts for Crew to create an automatic TZ that is being generated and released on a weekly basis, consisting of the biggest transfers, latest cup winners, live marathon tables etc. They would just need to code the platform for this and scripts to take care of the rest. One global one, and one for each country. It would be a massive boost for all communities.


I used to play an online football manager game a while ago, the game was crap but the main reason I was hooked for a while is that it generated a sort of newspaper with articles about the league & cup games, top scorers, photos of the games and I was always kind of anticipating reading that silly newspaper... it was very well done for a crappy game like that and it would provide a massive boost IMO.

I commented on this ages ago on admin but I guess like many other ideas, there was no time or interest to make them a reality.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
darkline wrote:
@hanz
About 3D, I'm sure they have stats on it, they know how many people watches their games in 3D, what browser they use, etc. etc. etc... if only a small percentile of the managers used the 3D I'm sure they wouldn't use resources to fix it.

The following was a statement from a Crew member in October 2017. I wonder what made they change their mind....

powdersnow wrote:
It's a matter of where we want to prioritize our time and effort. Back in 2000-2010 a 3D was a pretty cool thing for a management game to have, but these days people care less about the glossy surface and more about the depth of content. We want MZ to be a game that you can play for years and not get bored. We want to make it even deeper, while also easier for new visitors to learn. Neither of those tasks are easy to achieve, and developing a state-of-the-art 3D would basically exhaust all our available resources, in order to achieve something that we don't actually think the game really needs.

This is not to say that we will never develop a new 3D or incorporate 3D elements into our 2D. But for now you will have to accept the 3D situation "as is", and if this is a deal breaker for you then there isn't much we can do. Since 2017-09-18 when we hid 3D by default there hasn't been any negative impact on how most users browse MZ (or payment behavior), and that says a lot. I certainly empathize with those who love 3D and would miss it if we removed it completely, but we need to go where the opportunities are.

Source:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&sport=soccer&forum_id=10&topic_id=12239232&post_id=44116252#44116252

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
hanzinho wrote:
The following was a statement from a Crew member in October 2017. I wonder what made they change their mind....


Could be having an increase of people quitting due to not having a 3D to watch the games and not being happy with the idea of using just the 2D or the analyzer? Maybe their retention of new users dropped? A combination of both?
Edited: 26-01-2019 01:48
Total edits: 1

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
I reckon that unless I want to analyze something, if I'm watching a game just for recreational purposes I like to use the 3D

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
I tell you once again. In Estonian market many trainable/worth players (leftovers of youth production) -- young players.
Prices are like 1 EUR.

That is the main reason people quit. They train players, but this training and all is lacking the fun - can't make profits.

Only fun left is to build own team up and play for titles.

But main MANAGERfun is little.
So thatswhy I told newbies should start with temporary teams - so they are forced to buy those "leftovers". Then managers feel they are more useful, too - that their trained players are needed and with them actually can make profits, if there comes demand for even for best low-class players.

+++ to manipulate profits and luck and to make game more attractive - first 4 weeks after player is bought, should be no salaries. Then comes salaries and player can be sold, taxes 50% (like normally). This motivates people to train in 4 weeks at least that one extra ball and then theres hope (if there is demand for even for low-class players) they can make profits, too.
Easy to understand, yes?

+++ to manipulate demand + to make people love the training (I like this part the most in this game - training reports):

If club has 40-49 players, he can build stadium 5% larger (than normally), gets 5% more revenue in theory. (from 300k its 15k)
If club has 50-59 players, he can build stadium 10% larger (than normally), gets 10% more revenue in theory. from 300k its 30k)
If club has 60-69 players, he can build stadium 15% larger (than normally), gets 15% more revenue in theory. from 300k its 45k)
If club has 70+ players, he can build stadium 20% larger (than normally), gets 20% more revenue, in theory. from 300k its 60k)

= hooray, we can build stadium, too, a little.


P.S. I posted suggestion to admins forum (check it, if you have time, or I copy it here, too?) - I hope this gets done, then I start offering the clean thought through "temporary team for newbies" project.
Edited: 26-01-2019 04:05
Total edits: 6

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
darkline wrote:
Could be having an increase of people quitting due to not having a 3D to watch the games and not being happy with the idea of using just the 2D or the analyzer? Maybe their retention of new users dropped? A combination of both?

But Crew wrote that it didn't have any negative impact when they removed the 3D button.

Maybe (long shot) they felt conversion would improve if they made 3D a non-cumbersome viewing alternative. I haven't seen any increase. Endurance S69 has 105 less participants than in S68, and 245 teams less than in S67. Numbers continue to decline, despite 3D being revamped and made available on all(?) browser platforms. Who would have thunk...

Something happened late 2017 / early 2018 that made Crew turn around completely. And my hunch is that it involved an ultimatum from Stillfront.

Отн: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
hanzinho wrote:


Bulgaria had a participation of 28 users in the National Cup Bulgaria S68. I guess you need to "get to work"...

Speaking of doing work for the community. It would be peanuts for Crew to create an automatic TZ that is being generated and released on a weekly basis, consisting of the biggest transfers, latest cup winners, live marathon tables etc. They would just need to code the platform for this and scripts to take care of the rest. One global one, and one for each country. It would be a massive boost for all communities. Occasionally Crew could also write a few words in these releases, where they inform us about the direction of the game and this and that. But sadly, they have never seen the value in presenting statistics.


In our best times participation was 60-70 teams. So compared to the worldwide drawback we are still doing well. And I notice a few of my old friends are coming back to the game, but play it casual like me.

Bullseye with the statistics. RL comparison - Cristiano Ronaldo is among the greatest goalscorers ever, but imagine if nobody ever knew how many goals he has actually scored! "Oh, he's great, he scores a lot!" And that's it.
There should be a stats page for every player, at least with their league appearances and goals and there should be a stats page for each league (not only the top leagues) that at least lists all the teams that have won that league. Same thing for all Official cups - winner and finalist from each previous editions.
National teams - top 10 in appearances and goals (in hockey - assist as well). And that's not satisfying, just basic.

........
My point in my previous post was that users can advertise the game as well as Crew, actually better, because we have them out numbered many, many times, but it is the community that makes people stick around. Nobody ever registered here, spend a week or a month to figure out what is what and got super excited that he will have to wait 3-5 years until he is actually competitive. It is the community that makes people stay without counting days. Its all a matter of some free time and desire.

And the biggest hit ALL communities took is that The Zone is pretty much a thing of the past. Most of them are long dead.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
That goal idea is cool thing, but is just a little trinket. If I know how many total goals my players have will not make me more interested about game.

Keep ignoring the reason I wrote. And suggestions.

I have pushed them many times and nobody comments them, am I right or "big clubs" are that advanced they have forgot the importance of low-class players (for newbies), the training low-class players, the profits with pennies and that new managers get good feeling if they have many players advancing on training field.
I understand advanced clubs sit on millions and they don't value the rubbish.
But if to talk about getting here newbies and make them stay active, then you maybe think bit more as beginners, please?

Teaching managers to scrap the rubbish and collect money with "inactivity" ("just stay in game for 3 seasons til your youth get seniors and so on") -- mm.. not really good tactics to make people stay active.

Game has to be simple and free. Like I told before -- why MZ wastes resources on producing crappy players? To cut the loss in budget : make the crap have value or just remvoe all crap from game, so newbies can feel what ever they do, is right, not that they get pointed out, that hey, you are on low division, why you want to train players? better sell them all, build stadium, collect money, have youths, after 3 seasons put team together and ahve fun --- like really?

All newbies have their own little dream and vision and plan how they want to manage their teams.

So..
To get that freedom here, those my suggestions will make it. Why should div 1 managers worry or be mad on newbie that he wants to play penny-dealer or penny-trainer ?
He joined game to play a game, not to wait and wait and wait.

Newbie wants to play MANAGERgame, and transfers are closed for 2 weeks. Newbie can't even check, how managers are making money on markets. Buy Club Member? No way they say, buy pig in bag? And they quit.

With temporary teams -- if can't buy new team in 3 weeks (has no interest in game) - the temp. team will leave and club gets walk overs - drops to bottom. Natural deletion.
Edited: 26-01-2019 04:16
Total edits: 4

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[TDF]
President
stoilov wrote:
It is the community that makes people stay without counting days


Just in case you don't know, I gotta tell you that hanzinho has been absolutely essential for the Norwegian community, so I'm sure he know what you're talking about from A to Z. Hand made tutorials and guides which make the public manuals and beginner's guides look like they were made by infants. To make one short example (could have made dozens), 6 out of 12 teams in the U18 TD Northern Europe are Norwegian. Without him? Most likely 0 (there are always flukes).

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
I made to admin forum this kind of suggestion, for a step 1 in project "Newbies":
Step 2 would be this I posted some posts above.


Take all menu from "Help" to "Community".
There re-arrange menus like that:



--- Green box : to there add new page
New managers
-- list there like 200 (/per page) last registrations, grouped in months, arranged by latest.
example:
2019, January
user6, user5, user4
2018, December
user3, user2, user1
--- add flag next to username
--- should be sortable (hide/only show x nationalities)
--- get notifications if nationality x gets new manager


Then re-arrange tabs and add new to green box, labeled "Shortcuts"



To Shortcuts duplicate/modify links like that:

--- These spaces between lists are suggested.


"Shortcuts" would be ABC for newbies.

New page would be helpful for all -- we see who joined MZ and if England cares about their divisions, then Englishmen will contact their new managers to be sure they will like the game and so on.


(((( money makes wheels to roll:

The "Store" section better be alone and empty -- maybe crew figure out something to display there.
My current first thoughts about that "something" are, that if managers want, they can use their tokens to buy advertising for their (VIP, valuable) players, if these are on market. To save room and to get there more players - the advertising should be like list, two rows or so.
= MZ can get managers to use more tokens + their "Store" tab gets more views and maybe more clicks, too. +++ Managers can do better advertising for their players.

Store :


* Better would be (maybe), if flag + tag (EST for Estonia)

* If newbies would have temporary teams, it would be reasonable, if players can be on market for 2-4-7 days or 2-5-10 (instead 1-2-3). And that makes more sense to buy ad for players (longer time to react).
Edited: 26-01-2019 08:09
Total edits: 2

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Sorry if I am too egoistic (it may feel so) that I put plans on table and hope naively to get these done.
When I see game needs help, I start thinking what is wrong (I want to help), I offer suggestions what I think might work (never know if won't try). If it works - then hooray.
And sorry about my sloppery English.

I have made offers in many games. Instead to get things done, everywhere slackers start to argue and keep whining, instead to think deeply, maybe I get it right.
SIM is problem, I understand, too. But main problem, always in legendary games are -- that pros get pros and they want newbies to play like pros, too. That will dry out game in at one point, registration falls and so on (game gets too tight and complex). Game must have it fun values. Even if these are penny-profits or training 70 rubbish-players (for pros) - it is still activity and every manager counts.
This I never agree, that game is too defensive because of cheaters - example - transfers closed for newbies for 2 weeks. That rule's one reason why it is made so, is to catch cheaters. Fighting cheaters (they manage to inflitrate in anyways, if they really want, are the transfers closed for 2 weeks or not)... Fighting cheaters is more valuable than to get interest from newbies? Which is more important?
Edited: 26-01-2019 08:31
Total edits: 4

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
When I started playing the game back in 2006, the game was much more difficult, players where really poor, the game wasn't flooded with top quality players loaded with balls on every skill, staying afloat financially was a challenge, building your stadium took forever and you had to make a choice between improving it or saving money to buy better players, coaches where expensive, it took me almost a year in real life to get to my $1M and it was an achievement on it's own.

And because the game was harder, it kept you hooked, you had short term goals that where achievable like complete your stadium, get your first $1M, improve your squad, etc. but over time they dumbed down the game, now the SIM is built to reduce the gap between good & poor teams, getting money quickly is really easy, just complete a few challenges, wait for your bonus or if you're lucky you might have gotten some good young ummaxed players to sell for millions, building the stadium easy, getting good players is easy, market is flooded with decent quality players for a newbie, so basically after playing a couple of months a newbie will hit a wall since you already achieved all your short term goals, the only goal left is getting to the top division or winning a cup and both of those goals take months or years, without short term goals to keep you entertained while you achieve the long term goal of moving up the ranks, the game might feel boring.

All your suggestions are about making the game even easier, if I have to be honest I didn't really understand some of them, the one about the stadium for example, you can build the stadium any size you want....

And the suggestion about the shortcuts and the menu, I hate when they re-arrange menus & tabs, they did it once already and I couldn't find my way around since I was used to find a section or a tab in a certain place and it was elsewhere instead.

But anyway, that's the reason I didn't make any comment on those, because I really don't agree or like your suggestions but you put so much time & effort explaining them, that I didn't want to come out as being rude.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
In my opinion the game is too random because there is only 1-10 skill scale. All teams have similar teams, so all good strikers are the same, 9 shooting, 9 ball control, 8/8 or 9/8 motor skils. All keepers have 10 on keeping. All defenders have 9 on tackling etc. We need a expansion of ball skills, when you play fifa you don't see 11 Ronaldos or Messis on the pitch. In MZ it's all the same, that's why we can't complain just the scale is wrong, all players have 9 on main skills so what difference cant be there? Tactic yes I know, but many matches are based on two the same tactics.


It's very easy now and cheap to buy a good squad of +30 grandpas and play well. Remember when I joined the game, people had 8-9 keepers, I had a striker with 8 balls, it was very hard and expensive to buy a player.

I know prices are mad now but only for really really good players, normal average old players are cheap, and these days when it's better to have 33 old players because of experience matters more than +2 more balls on speed/stamina.

Not much left of managing the team, everything is too easy, I repeat this since years, that game is just too easy, that's why too many random scores because we are all kind of equal, the difference between good and bad managers is so little. 10 years ago all of my friends and clan mates had different squads, now every team is the same, because it's too easy to get great players, prices are high but still everyone have a perfect team. Too many amenities. I don'y blame crew for that, just people are less inteligent, remember when I was younger played the games on PS2 resident evil etc, all old games were so hard to beat, these days ps4/xbox one have this games which you can beat in 2 days, showing you too many hints what to do etc, people changed, are more stupid unfortunately have to say that, so crew had to adapt.

Remember when finance was a big thing to worry, you had to think etc, now we have bonuses every couple weeks which are killing the game.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
So summarizing, MZ is a game for lazy people now, where back when I started it was the opposite, you had to be smart and clever, all i wanted to say. Finance is most important thing of being a manager, but with tours you can spend your money because bonus is coming all the time :D Why tours are bad? because more people played the game when tour were not there. Simple.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Times have changed. Life's tempo is faster - everybody can choose from so many things what to do.
Even just a social media (facebook, twitter etc) will be a game for some -- from these they get contacts with real life and real life is critical (not in Conan Cases) to an adults who have hobbies like computer games -- "you are 30 and play a computer game? What is more important, to log in for 5 minutes to do the stuff or lets go? Come on" and so on. Then there is hard competition by other games. Graphics better, and these others take time too.

MZ won't take much time - so I think it should still be competitive. But for newbies it may feel "game with costs" - when they can't even check markets in maangerzone.. yes, there is text "after weeks markets will be open" -- but you know how many sites are there, who tell after 2 weeks "here is special offer for you" or something is open half only (they still ask money).

Other thing I have noticed -- nowadays people are not using PC/laptops much anymore (because of life's tempo), they use their smartphones. Yes - x% have habbits to turn on the computer. But some do that only, when they have some work to do -- they don't need to use computer, they can do their "stuff" all with their phones - social media is the commander.

In my suggestion there is page for "new managers" and "get notifications, when x nationality signs up" = when newbie gets registered, we lazy people should offer assistance, to catch the interest and show here is community --- that is very important to show newcommer here are real PEOPLE and that game is worth, just ask help, we give advice .


Skills 20 is good idea. 2x more progress in training reports.
It is bad to build 20 balls to game design.
More easy would be to build 20 x 0.5 balls (2 x 0.5 = 1 full ball).


@ darkline -- yes we can build stadium any size, but that would be just to look cool and only profit it gives, is costs.
If some bonus would come, too -- depending on, how many players you train, it helps to pay coaches and salaries. = also that if newbies have to buy new teams, after temporary leaves, the managers have always extra to sell.
Temporary team will fix dead divisons = if manager will not buy new players, team goes empty and gets walk overs. + admins can check divisions to delete them manually (before deleting they check transfer history just in case, maybe cheatings come out?)


And I don't agree my suggestion makes it more easy. When you build stadium 20% larger, to get 20% extra (because manager has 70+ players)... and he changes his mind, goes to "sleep mode", is it profitable, to keep that 20% built or to demolish?
= If managers drop from 70 players to 50 and so on, they build stadiums whole game, depending of the times.

If to make so that 4 first weeks no salaries, it is easy? How so? More people buy players = less food on table, harder competition. Game goes more active. That is not "easy", it would be then more interesting.
Edited: 26-01-2019 18:06
Total edits: 1

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Now is game easy - I can buy decent team with like 15 euros and win with that division 3. In division 2 I can be competitive with that same 15 euros team.

When more hungry teams on market, it goes harder - then they all want those 1 euro players.

Not enough players, when newbie's temporary team leaves? --- from Youth Academy they can get them still.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
lukaszsz182 wrote:
So summarizing, MZ is a game for lazy people now, where back when I started it was the opposite, you had to be smart and clever, all i wanted to say. Finance is most important thing of being a manager, but with tours you can spend your money because bonus is coming all the time :D Why tours are bad? because more people played the game when tour were not there. Simple.


That's a good way to summarize it, this days you don't have to put any time or effort into the game and that's what's slowly killing it, I have a balance of about $29M and I really didn't have to do anything to get it, the money just slowly piles up season after season... I don't use the market much though, last time I purchased a player for my senior team was way back in 2017.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Agreed entirely.

It used to be a management game. You had to be able to balance sending players to TC, spending money on the market, and only holding 3 foreign players in totality.

Did you send your young players to TC, or keep them and get the money from better Cup runs? Doesn't matter now because of Tour Income

You could only send 5 players to TC so did you send your most promising youths, or you new graduates? Now you can basically send who you want.

Did you send to the Camp that was available at the time, or risk seeing what was coming up next week and lose potential TC spaces? Now you can see, and if you don't like it you can swap them out.

The list goes on, the game has been dumbed down so much for the lowest common denominator.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
My current balance is -150k

Why you want to carry "deadweight" ? (your critics about exchange)

You are training 70 players?
All A-class coaches? Or you have been hunting for cheapest B-classes possible (you get, others won't)?
Do you buy your fella nationality players sometiems just to help them with money? (Not for cheating, just for mercy) --- I did put soem time ago 9 players to market, didn't see any rich guys, I got loss from deals. Half of them were fine to buy, but no tips.

"We are rich now, game is boring" - what ever - I know many rich clubs have been active for over 10 years and used "sleep modes", too.
Edited: 27-01-2019 17:03
Total edits: 2

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
raamatupood wrote:
"We are rich now, game is boring" - what ever - I know many rich clubs have been active for over 10 years and used "sleep modes", too.


I don't use "sleep mode" and I train 65 players with A class coaches, just realized I'm paying salaries to 24 y/old players that I don't need or use so I put them for sale and the reason I've been so careless is because I'm not keeping an eye on the economy because I don't need to, money just piles up quite easily.

Also, in the past I tried to maximize the training camps as the spots where very limited, today I have 9 players on TC and I really don't have to pay attention to it, I know I'll be able to send everyone I want regardless... so that's another thing I don't need to manage or pay attention to it.

And don't get me started with training players, that had been sped up a while ago, in the past you had to see what skills you would need for each position and try to come up with tactics to maximize those skills, a player with two skills at 9 or 10 would be a top star... now everyone expects players with 70+ balls and 9s or 10s on most skills, some of this is to blame for the original complain of hanz, most top teams have more or less the same quality of players and with a SIM that tries to flatten the player skills in an effort to make mediocre teams more competitive against top teams, it's no surprise the sort of results he's getting.

In the past, if I had been so careless I would be bankrupt and my team would be in ruins, having to be alert and on the details is what is fun for me, what keeps you active & interested, the struggle to improve your team, to manage the finances, etc... but now everything is too easy and like I said, you suggestions are all about making the game even easier? Thanks but no thanks, I'll go the opposite way and make the game harder and more challenging.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Yep, all golden intellectual games decide to go hard at some point and they end with aprx 1000-2000 active hardcore members (Utopia) or just 20 (cosmicsupremacy, because oldest and most loyal-ones want game to be challenging for them (to hold top only at their hands - for them it is easier, they have most skills, most contacts, msot influence; most money -MZ).

Any suggestions and notes about getting newbies to game, always will be ignored, main thing that old active core can have nostalgy and to competitie each-other.

Like I told. While thrones think they don't have anywhere to put the money, on bottom people mess with finances, trying to find some fun from markets.. they buy cheaply and sell cheaply -- rich bosses are not generous.

I say tours are too easy money, yes.. tours were made, cause no other sane offers were on table. Now I did put some offers on table. I get answers like "game is bad" - nobody even cares what people suggest or what, main thing is that can whine about downfall.

When I post suggestion to have page where all newbies listed and that managers get notifications about "fresh meat" -- to message them and teach them, then no support. Maybe because people are lazy or they have attitude "not my problem, I have things good, I am so smart, just bring in those new players, do the work, I have paid you".

I don't say bossing around is not bad. But when people like me come aboard and I show out my will to put plan together, then better discuss it constructively and as math, think it is 2019, not 2004, skip your old memories and whine. My old memories were, that bunch of people were sure that bunch of people were cheaters here and bunch of "elite" people harassed here other bunch of people - I dont't talk about these old memories. Now it is 2019 and if want to fix something or get things done, need to build it on what he have now, not what was back then.
Edited: 27-01-2019 18:53
Total edits: 4

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
raamatupood wrote:
Yep, all golden intellectual games decide to go hard and they end with aprx 1000-2000 active hardcore members (Utopia) or just 20 (cosmicsupremacy, because oldest and most loyal-ones want game to be challenging for them.


And you miss the point that when I was a newbie, along with many other newbies, people got hooked up to the game and the community was much lively for the reasons I mentioned.

Had the game been as easy as it is now, I probably would have lost interest in 2/3 months after achieving all the short term goals, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have stick around on the long run and I know this for a fact as I tried other easy games and I tend to get bored quite quickly and easily, I don't usually stick around for more than 1 or 2 months.... reason I got hooked with MZ is that I always had another short term achievement to look forward to, be it completing my stadium, juggling my finances to improve my team, getting my first big sale, getting my first top quality player and all this took time... had I achieved all this in a month, I wouldn't be here today.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
I agree that stadiums get ready very (too) fast. But in old days we started in division 6, now I started from division 3.

There has been "meteorite" here . Some say SIM's fault, some say "too much money" -- I think the main problem is -- "loyal players" -- crew understood same thing like I -- newbies should have different team.
But this plan they generated was not 100% correct. "Loyal players are not forcing real noob or "solo" managers to buy player from market. And that markets are clsoed for 2 weeks, is bad thing, too (I have told it like 7 times now already).

The financial part for managers is not ready. It is half-ready. I will put the plan together in couple of days, I will let you know about the combination of changes. I have read the text here and I take notes.
Edited: 27-01-2019 19:13
Total edits: 1

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
I see newbies sometimes selling players that come with their teams for $4M to $6M, sometimes even more.... I don't think they need better players, what they need is to tax those players at 95% for 3 or 4 seasons so they keep them, instead of cashing on them.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
No, if newbies come with sellable teams, the problem gets even worse.
They should start with temporary teams (all team leaves in 3 weeks after sign-up).

If there are too many players laying around market = nobody buys low-class = that pennie-market (fun from managing and training reports) core will go inactive = less managers in game = +tours pump money = too much money.

And if situation will not get fixed, it ends with that nationality will dry out (even worse: and some foreign nationality might take over the league) = at the end there will be so few active managers there is no players to buy = even more too much money = nationality dies out.
Edited: 27-01-2019 19:20
Total edits: 2

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
2 key matches today. Lost both against play. Nothing too crazy, but nevertheless interesting to see how consistently crap this simulator is at the highest level.

In WL top series I have 12-1-1 in SOT. Yet I have 8-2-4 on the actual table. The only game where I lost SOT, I won. Out of the 12 games where I won SOT, I won half. Which supports all the previous statistics (all teams) I have done regarding WL TS. If you win SOT, then you have around a 50% chance of winning the game. Absurd. Anyway.

The game has certainly never been easier for new teams. If they do a few tours and sell some of their 19-year olds, then they already have 3-5 million EUR in the bank. Problem with that though, is that we end up having something called _inflation_. It doesn't help with a lot of money, when everybody has suitcases full of it.

I have around 15 mill EUR currently, despite having super-high weekly expenses. The game is just throwing money at me. I tried buying a couple of players some weeks ago when I was active. The first one I gave up on when the price increased to 11 mill EUR. The last one I gave up when the price was 14 mill EUR. So even the transfer market is just one big “meh” currently.

But I don't agree that it is the "dumbing-down" that is killing the game, as much as I dislike many of those elements. That is a strategy Crew employed long after the patient was on life support. People abandoned this game when it still was a challenge to handle the club finances. What is killing this game is that it has aged, a lot. And these last year MZ has basically been on a standstill, due to all the resources being spent on fluff (3D).

The dumbing-down bit is a bi-product of a desperate Crew that tries to make the game more enjoyable to new users. At one-point Crew will have to conclude that for this game to become popular again, then they must alter and improve the game. New teams are still receiving 23 youths that has never been near a football before. These youths also tend to have balls in the skills where their positional talent isn't. If they watch a game, they are likely to see their attackers miss 10-20 clear cut chances every game. Etc. etc. etc.

If the game is good, then people will play it. Currently MZ isn't, so people don't. I believe it is that simple. As much as I hate the simulator, you can't put your finger on one specific element or even area in the game and say that this is what is causing the downfall. The simulator plays a part, no doubt. But the main problem is that this game is still very much identical to the one that was created +18 years ago. Anybody still playing Max Payne 1, MGS 2, GTA 3? They all came out in 2001. To illustrate how far ago 2001 is, Nokia 6310 also came out that year. I loved that phone, but eventually I moved on. Currently I own a smart phone, like everybody else. If MZ is a phone, it’s a Nokia 6310.

darkline wrote:
now everyone expects players with 70+ balls and 9s or 10s on most skills, some of this is to blame for the original complain of hanz, most top teams have more or less the same quality of players and with a SIM that tries to flatten the player skills in an effort to make mediocre teams more competitive against top teams, it's no surprise the sort of results he's getting.

Actually, and this is the weird thing. SOT is quite consistent. Results are not. So there are some skill differences between the teams, even at the WL Top Series, or else I wouldn't win SOT in pretty much all games I play. The main issue is the instability of the goalkeepers. Crew could easily strengthen the correlation by just making goalies more consistent, and you wouldn't be simmed in 50% of the matches...

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[WCE]
President
stoilov wrote:
Bullseye with the statistics. RL comparison - Cristiano Ronaldo is among the greatest goalscorers ever, but imagine if nobody ever knew how many goals he has actually scored! "Oh, he's great, he scores a lot!" And that's it.
There should be a stats page for every player, at least with their league appearances and goals and there should be a stats page for each league (not only the top leagues) that at least lists all the teams that have won that league. Same thing for all Official cups - winner and finalist from each previous editions.
National teams - top 10 in appearances and goals (in hockey - assist as well). And that's not satisfying, just basic.

Lu Ying has scored a lot of goals in the WL Top Series. How many? Probably somewhere between 150 and 300. I think he might be the all-time top-scorer, but I am basically just guessing. Quxing had a rank of 3150 pts the other day. World record? I have no idea. Etc. etc.

It is not like this game doesn't have enough statistics. It basically has none. It is that one thing Crew (past and current) forgot about. I find it super weird, because is it one thing virtual football managers (for the most part) are into, its statistics.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Youth exchange, good point, another thing that is killing the game. If we would have to traing the ones we get then it would be more fun and more difficult. Because training a youth who have 1 ball on every skill it would be risky.

Points that are making this game too easy, and killing the spirit of being a good manager:

Extra Income: Tours, we can keep wasting the money because we know that tour is coming, so no respect for the finance at all.

Youth Exchange: not happy with the youth? no worries, there is plenty of changes available so why risking the bad youth to train, let's swap him, because we are to lazy to find a good one from ours, we can always swap.

Free training camps for youths:
why not make it free for all youths? Really it has to be that easy? socialism in MZ, nothing is free in life, we should pay for all youths, then we will have to think who to send, but now we can send plenty for free.

Training Exchange: why wait? let's make it easier faster for those who buy tokens. No need to wait for friday or monday for new package.

Loyal Players: Remember when I was starting in 2009 there was no loyal players, i got some bad players and had to stick with them. Have and idea for crew why not make it more easier, let's offer loyal player exchange...

Tour completeng: Why make managers book plenty friendlies, watch out to not overplay your squad, to have 2 squads to compete the tour with friendlies, it's better to make it easier for lazy managers and you can completet with friendlie league, two clicks (you have to have tokens) and the tour is completed in 5 minutes.

Would point more, but I tried to show the one about finance which are crucial, manager= managinc finance, this is most important.

I'm 26 years old I know I won't enjoy this game as much as when I was joining it when I was 17 but points mentioned are not helping.

Conclusion, if this game was still great, we wouldn't have 7 pages already on "MZ downfall". Sad but true.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
How about playing the game for a couple of (real) years with no club membership bonuses nor any extra income activities (token based cups etc) and see how "difficult" this game can be?

(Sarcasm)

:p

But seriously, don't, cause in the end you will either end up complaining about the sim or quiting the game.

And I don't want you to quit mz. I need your excess money in order to stay afloat and I can only do that whenever I transfer list an u23 player that simply has potential and you go overboard with your transfer bids!

I also need you to stick around so my mediocre team with d class coaches, mediocre players and a copy/paste wing formation can beat you once in a while so that I can brag about it by posting an apropriate gif in the league msg board...

(End of sarcasm)

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
And don't listen fresh managers's oppinions, what they think about why newbies are not staying - they don't know a thing, they were not here 10 years ago. Just ignore they still have memory about thoughts they had when they joined game, that experience is not worth anything.
--- this kind of attitude is very popular in downfall games.

P.S. lukasz
if to talk about democracy, then 21 years old's vote has same power as 60 years old's.
60 years old has memories of his/her green happy times; 21 years old tell times have changed.
Older thinks communism was better, younger says capitalism needs some fixes.
Older is refusing to discuss the fixes, he wants old times back; younger keeps thinking the solutions and moves away from old grumpy and contacts crew himself to get things done.
Old says he/she don't want to see those changes happen; younger gets game fixed.
Old still not liking them; youngsters (and come-backers) will dominate.
Old will get used to the changes or quits; youngsters get old (one day), too.

and the cycle starts over.
Edited: 28-01-2019 01:09
Total edits: 4

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[FLUSA]
President
hanzinho wrote:
It is not like this game doesn't have enough statistics. It basically has none. It is that one thing Crew (past and current) forgot about. I find it super weird, because is it one thing virtual football managers (for the most part) are into, its statistics.


Agree, that's something most people that plays manager games likes, to see a lot of different stats on players, teams, etc. and also league history, cup history, historic top scorers, etc. etc. etc... stuff like this has been suggested many times before and I'm surprised it has not been implemented yet.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Joining this conversation about 4 months too late by the sounds of things!

Full disclosure, this is not me showing off which after re-reading it does sound a bit like I'm flexing - that's absolutely not my intent.

A quick background for the users from 2009 onwards, I was one of the first Scottish members (June 2003) and Scottish first RA, GA, MA, FA - basically everything. Back when we had 8 teams in a league, one match a week and you lived and died on a Sunday hoping for a result. I also had Eden Schutt, which is probably why you knew my username and my football club. More on that later.

I'm in a unique situation to say that I met the first incarnation of Crew in June 2004 in Solna. Where we had daily cups running that people had to sign up for in a shopping centre that MZ was unveiling their new simulator, from memory there was over 70 entries.

I'll defend their work ethic until this game folds because what those guys did to make the game work at that level was astonishing. I sat beside Muran for an hour watching him work the back doors of this site to ensure it stayed up. Marcus was a genius who built the simulator almost single handedly I was told.

That was 15 years ago with a game without all the razzle dazzle of todays game.

I had a long conversation with Johan, the head of Crew in a bar in Stockholm at 11pm on the night after the 2004 MZ World Cup Final (Sweden won, btw) to discuss how to build the smaller countries like Scotland - we had a core of 150 users, maybe 35 were active. I suggested one advertisement at a Rangers-Celtic game, that's 50,000 bodies right there seeing your product. Nothing more was said or done and then they went all in on MZ China, which failed quite spectacularly.

I had to basically single-handedly put Scotland on the MZ map. I was the defending Top League Champion and the only user of merit in 2004 (sorry Brian, Dave and Ruairidh but you know it's the truth :D). Hanzinho (hello btw!) has discussed the simulator and its randomness to which I will fully admit is why I'm even remembered to this day - I took Scotland with it's 35 users to a World Cup last 16 and took my club in 2005 to the last 32 of a MZ Cup of 15,000 entries.

These are the crazy numbers of 2004-06. Then came the novelties, 12 team leagues, matches twice a week, youth exchange, customisation of players. The forums, are toxic as they were sometimes were actually quite helpful compared to other games. Yes, the learning curve was steep but it made the achievements all the more impressive.

Now we're giving away money for playing a certain amount of friendlies, at least we did. I've not played a match since 2015.

There was a community and a togetherness that's gone - it went over 10 years ago. A few legends are still here but the soul of the game left with the departure of the majority of the greats to which I don't consider myself to be one. There was banter on here almost daily with dantoe, martinwarnett, rangersfc2, elusive, aplam68, myfatcat, medz (there's a legend if ever there was one! :D), frankzappa, unclepedro, tammel, matttombstone and that's just the UK guys.

I still speak to the US MA (titan5er, he's Tristan to me :)) of the mid-2000's, he's now one of my closest friends. methos, felipao, hotello, lucapiu, gubsoul, hawkmoon, caxaria, qpr_args and so many others enriched the forums every day.

Now we're lucky to get ten posts a day and you're getting a post from me about a topic that was started in October last year.

Apologies, it's a long post and a bit of a walk down memory lane for me but just because the game was hard didn't deter people - it made them what to get better. We've lost that and frankly, we can never get it back. That's the real downfall, it went away from what made MZ truly great.

If Muran, Marcus, Origo, Arianos, Goran, Johan, Actionhero, Gubsoul, Lucapiu, Rikard or anyone else from the 2004 meet ever read this - that was the high point of my MZ career because you lunatics let me on a livestream to discuss a fictional player with a well respected Swedish newscaster and the forums exploded because nobody could understand my accent.

So yeah, that's my two cents. I commend all of you still playing this game and just know this, Eden Schutt is the greatest lover in the world. :D

Eddie.

Sv: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
So... the idiot that I am, I have calculated the number of active teams in the whole MZ world. Bare with me, the marginals can be little wrong but this is an estimate. I calculated the number of active teams from Premier League till Division 4. Division 5 and 6 was too much.

Premier League - 12 teams
Div 1 - 36
Div 2 - 108
Div 3 - 324
Div 4 - 972
= 1452 teams


Number of active teams, Premier League - Division 4. Maximum of 1452 teams. Countries written in swedish.. =)

Argentina = 1399
Polen = 1375
Sverige = 1349
Brasilien = 1323
Turkiet = 1305
Kina = 949
Rumänien = 772
Spanien = 731

Italien = 622
Portugal = 577
Grekland = 310
Ungern = 304
Colombia = 291
Mexiko = 277
Ecuador = 270
Belgien = 252
England = 249
USA = 242
Estland = 240
Tyskland = 214
Bulgarien = 212
Frankrike = 210

Venezuela = 208
Holland = 207
Danmark = 190
Chile = 189
Uruguay = 176
Ryssland = 172
Peru = 166
Norway = 157
Österrike = 153
Schweiz = 136
Tjeckien = 134
Australien = 133
Finland = 103

Canada = 98
Indonesien = 85
MZ Country = 85
Andorra = 75
Ukraina = 69
Costa Rica = 60
Slovakien = 55
Litauen = 54
Israel = 51
Rublic of Irland = 50
Vietnam = 48
Algeriet = 48
Albanien = 46
Kroatien = 46
Serbien = 43

Azerbadjan = 38
Moldavien = 37
Malaysia = 35
Slovenien = 33
Lettland = 30
India = 30
Paraguay = 30
Bosnien = 29
Cypern = 26
Makedonia = 26
Bangladesh = 22
Panama = 22
Georgien = 21
Egypten = 21
Singapore = 21
Sydafrika = 18
Skottland = 18
Iceland = 18
Bolivia = 17
Malta = 17
Marocko = 17

Vitryssland = 13
Thailand = 13
UAE = 12
El Salvador = 12
Tunisien = 11
Wales = 11
Filippinerna = 11
Luxenburg = 11
Kuwait = 11
Northern Ireland = 10
Domican rupublic = 10

Kenya = 9
Guatemala = 8
Honduras = 8
Iran = 8
Senegal = 8
Kazakstan = 7
Kyrgiystan = 6
Lebanon = 6
Sydkorea = 5
Trinidad Tobago = 5
Pakistan = 5
Angola = 4
Färöarna = 4
Nigeria = 4
Saudi Arabien = 3
Montenegro = 3
Jordanien = 2
Liechstenstein = 2

TOTAL: 17258 active members. If we make an estimate of Div5&6 of the biggest nations we will approximately end up around 20000-22000 active members. How many of these that contribute to the game is another question.

Re: MZ - The downfall

Badge image
Badge image
[TDF]
President
Great work! I don't know the user base of every country, but I guess your estimated number of active Norwegian teams can be divided with a number slightly lower than 2. 60 teams signed up for the national cup, and 76 teams signed up for the free New Year's cup. Let's assume that some teams missed out, and the number of active users will be around 85-90? And 75 active teams in Andorra. 48 in Vietnam? Just to take two examples. Come on, mate :) But again, great work!:D
Previous
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Next