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2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 11-07-2013 15:19

[AUSNZ]

It's great to be in Europe and able to watch the whole match. Been a great match so far, mostly dominated by bowlers until Agar came out - breaking all kinds of records.It's great to be in Europe and able to watch the whole match.

Been a great match so far, mostly dominated by bowlers until Agar came out - breaking all kinds of records.

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Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 19-07-2013 14:03

[ENG]

Don't know why Watson bothers reviewing when he gets given out LBWDon't know why Watson bothers reviewing when he gets given out LBW

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 19-07-2013 14:18

[AUSNZ]

If Clarke didn't hate him before, he might now... Looking forward to seeing Khawaja - hope he makes a big score.

mosmosmos wrote:

Don't know why Watson bothers reviewing when he gets given out LBW

If Clarke didn't hate him before, he might now...

Looking forward to seeing Khawaja - hope he makes a big score.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 19-07-2013 14:51

[ENG]

Roger, defeated by the genius flight of SwannRoger, defeated by the genius flight of Swann

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 19-07-2013 15:00

[AUSNZ]

That wicket is also Watson's fault. If Watson hadn't wasted a review, I'm sure Rodgers would have reviewed that.That wicket is also Watson's fault. If Watson hadn't wasted a review, I'm sure Rodgers would have reviewed that.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 19-07-2013 15:03

[AUSNZ]

Oh, and I see Swann has his long sleeves on for bowling again... that means he'll do some doosra's today. Any off spinner that bowls doosras and wears long sleeves is admitting they chuck.Oh, and I see Swann has his long sleeves on for bowling again... that means he'll do some doosra's today.

Any off spinner that bowls doosras and wears long sleeves is admitting they chuck.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 19-07-2013 15:08

[AUSNZ]

WTF just happened? Hughes misses the ball and is caught behind?WTF just happened?

Hughes misses the ball and is caught behind?

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 19-07-2013 15:11

[ENG]

Potentially a slight mark on the hotspot, a noise caught on the microphone. DRS is only meant to review if it is certain the umpire certainly got it wrong.Potentially a slight mark on the hotspot, a noise caught on the microphone.

DRS is only meant to review if it is certain the umpire certainly got it wrong.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 19-07-2013 15:17

[AUSNZ]

The noise was the frame after the ball went past the bat and there was no mark on the bat that wasn't already there. I think England's hot spot technology leaves a lot to be desired - I've never seen so many incidents be unclear. In Australia, it's either clearly there or not, not worrying about sun reflection and looking at the same 3 frames 30 times. I don't understand why they don't use super-slow-motion cameras on these things. Going by what's on YouTube, you can see so much more detail on the smallest of collisions.

mosmosmos wrote:

Potentially a slight mark on the hotspot, a noise caught on the microphone.

DRS is only meant to review if it is certain the umpire certainly got it wrong.

The noise was the frame after the ball went past the bat and there was no mark on the bat that wasn't already there.

I think England's hot spot technology leaves a lot to be desired - I've never seen so many incidents be unclear. In Australia, it's either clearly there or not, not worrying about sun reflection and looking at the same 3 frames 30 times.

I don't understand why they don't use super-slow-motion cameras on these things. Going by what's on YouTube, you can see so much more detail on the smallest of collisions.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 19-07-2013 15:33

[ENG]

On the basis of speed of light and sound, even at that distance, an 80mph ball presumably has an effect. There was a noise certainly, and hard to what else it could have been. Khawaja didn't look like he had a clue against spin

tosspot wrote:

The noise was the frame after the ball went past the bat and there was no mark on the bat that wasn't already there.

On the basis of speed of light and sound, even at that distance, an 80mph ball presumably has an effect.

There was a noise certainly, and hard to what else it could have been.

Khawaja didn't look like he had a clue against spin

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 19-07-2013 15:59

[ENG]

Time to reverse the batting orderTime to reverse the batting order

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 19-07-2013 16:25

[AUSNZ]

Suspended Warner was a stupid move I think.

mosmosmos wrote:

Time to reverse the batting order

Suspended Warner was a stupid move I think.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 19-07-2013 16:35

[ENG]

Yea, it's the Ashes. The principle of what he did, really shouldn't get in the way

tosspot wrote:

Suspended Warner was a stupid move I think.

Yea, it's the Ashes. The principle of what he did, really shouldn't get in the way

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 19-07-2013 16:45

[ENG]

Who would be the one to drop out for him? Khawaja and send Hughes up to 3?Who would be the one to drop out for him? Khawaja and send Hughes up to 3?

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 19-07-2013 16:58

[AUSNZ]

Australia is on a crusade to stop punching everywhere. They brought in a rule in Rugby League a couple weeks ago that if you throw a punch it's automatic sin-bin. It'll come to boxing too, throw a punch and you're disqualified.Australia is on a crusade to stop punching everywhere. They brought in a rule in Rugby League a couple weeks ago that if you throw a punch it's automatic sin-bin.

It'll come to boxing too, throw a punch and you're disqualified.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 19-07-2013 16:59

[AUSNZ]

Take your pick really... Anyone but Clarke.

mosmosmos wrote:

Who would be the one to drop out for him? Khawaja and send Hughes up to 3?

Take your pick really... Anyone but Clarke.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By damo11 - 19-07-2013 21:44

[AUSNZ]

Well, an interesting way to finish the day. Still a long way behind.Well, an interesting way to finish the day. Still a long way behind.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 19-07-2013 23:21

[ENG]

Two crap batting teams certainly make for interesting test cricket.Two crap batting teams certainly make for interesting test cricket.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 20-07-2013 00:52

[AUSNZ]

Wow, I was out for the last hour or so of play today - did not expect that. Probably the 3 most dangerous batsmen (maybe excluding Bell in current form) are out.Wow, I was out for the last hour or so of play today - did not expect that. Probably the 3 most dangerous batsmen (maybe excluding Bell in current form) are out.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By deleted_5669342 - 20-07-2013 06:51

Shocking batting no doubt. If england are 31 all out, I wouldn't think australia would be able to chase the total down anyways. =/ does anyone see australia winning a test?Shocking batting no doubt.
If england are 31 all out, I wouldn't think australia would be able to chase the total down anyways. =/
does anyone see australia winning a test?

Re: 2013 Ashes

By damo11 - 20-07-2013 09:25

[AUSNZ]

If we couldn't win the first one, I can't see us getting another. A draw at best for the other 3.

brendanzh wrote:

Shocking batting no doubt.
If england are 31 all out, I wouldn't think australia would be able to chase the total down anyways. =/
does anyone see australia winning a test?

If we couldn't win the first one, I can't see us getting another. A draw at best for the other 3.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 20-07-2013 13:28

[AUSNZ]

Guess Warner should have punched Root a bit harder.Guess Warner should have punched Root a bit harder.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 20-07-2013 14:04

[ENG]

Feeling far better after that 1st session, relieved a lot of pressureFeeling far better after that 1st session, relieved a lot of pressure

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 20-07-2013 16:19

[AUSNZ]

I'm glad the commentators have been going on about how bad that decision to disallow Smith's catch was. Absolute disgrace that umpires this bad are allowed to officiate in something as big as the Ashes. That's the 3rd time this match that the decision (with the benefit of slow motion replays) has been plain and simple, wrong.I'm glad the commentators have been going on about how bad that decision to disallow Smith's catch was.

Absolute disgrace that umpires this bad are allowed to officiate in something as big as the Ashes. That's the 3rd time this match that the decision (with the benefit of slow motion replays) has been plain and simple, wrong.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 20-07-2013 19:00

[ENG]

300-2 painful day for an Aussie300-2 painful day for an Aussie

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 00:54

[AUSNZ]

I expected to lost the series convincingly, but this match has really not gone our way. This is probably the best team England have ever had and the worst team we've ever had - it's almost not fair to be playing each other.I expected to lost the series convincingly, but this match has really not gone our way.

This is probably the best team England have ever had and the worst team we've ever had - it's almost not fair to be playing each other.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By madmonk - 21-07-2013 01:22

[BotP]

Now you know how we felt 1989-2004Now you know how we felt 1989-2004

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 21-07-2013 02:12

[ENG]

Bang on. That said, even in the days of Mullally and Afzaal, I'm struggling to think of an English Ashes side that was quite as incompetent as this Aussie lot. I think our 2005 side would comfortably beat the lot we have out today, but it is probably the best side we've it out since then. Aussies pretty much rely on Clarke to make scores, even when we fall apart we have enough in there generally for one of the players to do something. 30-3 to 300+ 2 innings in a row is good resilience.

madmonk wrote:

Now you know how we felt 1989-2004

Bang on.

That said, even in the days of Mullally and Afzaal, I'm struggling to think of an English Ashes side that was quite as incompetent as this Aussie lot.

I think our 2005 side would comfortably beat the lot we have out today, but it is probably the best side we've it out since then.

Aussies pretty much rely on Clarke to make scores, even when we fall apart we have enough in there generally for one of the players to do something. 30-3 to 300+ 2 innings in a row is good resilience.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 09:51

[AUSNZ]

I agree somewhat, but it's not quite true - England had a number of great players during those times. England weren't that bad, Australia were just very good. Apart from Clarke, I don't know if there is a single person in the team that will make 5000+ test runs or 200+ wickets (maybe Siddle or Pattinson) From that era, you had plenty of those... Hussein, Atherton, Stewart, Gooch, Thorpe, Gough, Caddick (probably more). The 2005 England side was lucky to win that series really - rain/bad light meant Australia couldn't win the game to equal the series, McGrath was out for the 2 matches England won due to stepping on a ball in the warmup. Obviously some good performances, but I don't think that their cricket was the reason they won the series.

madmonk wrote:

Now you know how we felt 1989-2004

I agree somewhat, but it's not quite true - England had a number of great players during those times. England weren't that bad, Australia were just very good.

Apart from Clarke, I don't know if there is a single person in the team that will make 5000+ test runs or 200+ wickets (maybe Siddle or Pattinson)

From that era, you had plenty of those... Hussein, Atherton, Stewart, Gooch, Thorpe, Gough, Caddick (probably more).

The 2005 England side was lucky to win that series really - rain/bad light meant Australia couldn't win the game to equal the series, McGrath was out for the 2 matches England won due to stepping on a ball in the warmup. Obviously some good performances, but I don't think that their cricket was the reason they won the series.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 12:19

[AUSNZ]

That was a brilliant tactic by Australia this morning. Starve Root of the strike - it's a pity that it didn't go on for hours to eat into how long we'd need to bat. Joe Root showed his inexperience by playing a ramp shot. Good mind game win for Australia there - Cook looked pretty annoyed.That was a brilliant tactic by Australia this morning. Starve Root of the strike - it's a pity that it didn't go on for hours to eat into how long we'd need to bat.

Joe Root showed his inexperience by playing a ramp shot.

Good mind game win for Australia there - Cook looked pretty annoyed.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 21-07-2013 12:24

[ENG]

Can't imagine he will be too bothered. Longer to bowl at Australia.

tosspot wrote:

That was a brilliant tactic by Australia this morning. Starve Root of the strike - it's a pity that it didn't go on for hours to eat into how long we'd need to bat.

Joe Root showed his inexperience by playing a ramp shot.

Good mind game win for Australia there - Cook looked pretty annoyed.

Can't imagine he will be too bothered. Longer to bowl at Australia.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 21-07-2013 12:46

[ENG]

So where did this lack of succession planning come from? Complacency?

tosspot wrote:

I agree somewhat, but it's not quite true - England had a number of great players during those times. England weren't that bad, Australia were just very good.

Apart from Clarke, I don't know if there is a single person in the team that will make 5000+ test runs or 200+ wickets (maybe Siddle or Pattinson)

From that era, you had plenty of those... Hussein, Atherton, Stewart, Gooch, Thorpe, Gough, Caddick (probably more).

So where did this lack of succession planning come from? Complacency?

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 12:52

[AUSNZ]

Glenn McGrath: 563 wickets (most by a fast bowler) Shane Warne: 705 wickets (most by a spinner - Murali doesn't count as he chucks and plays on sub-continent too often) Ricky Ponting: 13 378 runs (2nd highest in history) 3 irreplaceable players. No matter what you do, there is no plan for that.

mosmosmos wrote:

So where did this lack of succession planning come from? Complacency?

Glenn McGrath: 563 wickets (most by a fast bowler)
Shane Warne: 705 wickets (most by a spinner - Murali doesn't count as he chucks and plays on sub-continent too often)
Ricky Ponting: 13 378 runs (2nd highest in history)

3 irreplaceable players.

No matter what you do, there is no plan for that.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 21-07-2013 13:05

[ENG]

Agree about those 3, but what about the rest of the team which some half decent players. Looking back to the era I remember, you replaced Taylor, Slater, Waugh brothers, Healy and many others from the 90's hence such the prolonged period of success. But younger than that you only have Clarke, something must have gone wrong somewhere to only produce 1 world class player now after two decades of absolute dominance

tosspot wrote:

Glenn McGrath: 563 wickets (most by a fast bowler)
Shane Warne: 705 wickets (most by a spinner - Murali doesn't count as he chucks and plays on sub-continent too often)
Ricky Ponting: 13 378 runs (2nd highest in history)

3 irreplaceable players.

No matter what you do, there is no plan for that.

Agree about those 3, but what about the rest of the team which some half decent players.

Looking back to the era I remember, you replaced Taylor, Slater, Waugh brothers, Healy and many others from the 90's hence such the prolonged period of success.

But younger than that you only have Clarke, something must have gone wrong somewhere to only produce 1 world class player now after two decades of absolute dominance

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 13:40

[AUSNZ]

I think it's because all those guys played until they were quite old and held so many players out of the team until they were well through their career - which is fair enough because they were the best team in the world, why change it? The problem that created is we don't want to bring 30+yo players in for their debut as it will put us further out for the future. We've gone a younger player route this time, young bowlers and young batsmen with just a few oldies (Haddin, Watson etc). It's in rebuild - the Australian public don't care (as much as we usually would) that we keep losing, which is the best part about it. Giving the team a chance to build back up.I think it's because all those guys played until they were quite old and held so many players out of the team until they were well through their career - which is fair enough because they were the best team in the world, why change it?

The problem that created is we don't want to bring 30+yo players in for their debut as it will put us further out for the future.

We've gone a younger player route this time, young bowlers and young batsmen with just a few oldies (Haddin, Watson etc).

It's in rebuild - the Australian public don't care (as much as we usually would) that we keep losing, which is the best part about it. Giving the team a chance to build back up.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By madmonk - 21-07-2013 13:45

[BotP]

What's funny is seeing so many of the old England traits in this Australian side - batting collapses, injury prone bowlers, rushing young players in as the new saviour, endless run of spinners, selection carousel. Dare I say mental weakness? I don't think this is a great England side, just good in a mediocre era in tests. I'm not a huge fan of looking at volume of runs/wickets without averages as it favours average/good players with long careers (hooch, Atherton, Hussain averages 42,37,37)What's funny is seeing so many of the old England traits in this Australian side - batting collapses, injury prone bowlers, rushing young players in as the new saviour, endless run of spinners, selection carousel. Dare I say mental weakness?

I don't think this is a great England side, just good in a mediocre era in tests.

I'm not a huge fan of looking at volume of runs/wickets without averages as it favours average/good players with long careers (hooch, Atherton, Hussain averages 42,37,37)

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 13:52

[AUSNZ]

Compare those averages to other players that played during those times - they were good. Long career usually means they did better than everyone else. Also, Holding said exactly what I just said :) Best England team he's seen and it takes time to replace McGrath/Warne etc.Compare those averages to other players that played during those times - they were good.

Long career usually means they did better than everyone else.


Also, Holding said exactly what I just said :)
Best England team he's seen and it takes time to replace McGrath/Warne etc.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 13:54

[AUSNZ]

And yeah, our selectors have never had a tough job until now and they don't know what to do. Keep changing spinners and the batting lineup.And yeah, our selectors have never had a tough job until now and they don't know what to do. Keep changing spinners and the batting lineup.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By madmonk - 21-07-2013 13:55

[BotP]

Or long career = best of a bad bunch?Or long career = best of a bad bunch?

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 21-07-2013 14:01

[ENG]

Lyon appears to have been messed about somewhat. Agar 0-140 this game, seems unlikely he'll get another shot. Whatever happened to Katich? He at least seemed competent.

tosspot wrote:

And yeah, our selectors have never had a tough job until now and they don't know what to do. Keep changing spinners and the batting lineup.

Lyon appears to have been messed about somewhat. Agar 0-140 this game, seems unlikely he'll get another shot.

Whatever happened to Katich? He at least seemed competent.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 14:07

[AUSNZ]

Possibly, but with an average of 35-40 it would be easy to replace you as a lot of batsmen have those averages and better in first class. Agar won't play again, they'll use the injury. His bowling is not good enough and his batting won't ever live up to what he did. Lyon will be back from next test and I hope they bring Jackson Bird in for Pattinson. And Warner will hopefully be back, probably for Hughes (depending on Khawaja's innings).

madmonk wrote:

Or long career = best of a bad bunch?

Possibly, but with an average of 35-40 it would be easy to replace you as a lot of batsmen have those averages and better in first class.

mosmosmos wrote:

Lyon appears to have been messed about somewhat. Agar 0-140 this game, seems unlikely he'll get another shot.

Whatever happened to Katich? He at least seemed competent.

Agar won't play again, they'll use the injury. His bowling is not good enough and his batting won't ever live up to what he did. Lyon will be back from next test and I hope they bring Jackson Bird in for Pattinson. And Warner will hopefully be back, probably for Hughes (depending on Khawaja's innings).

Re: 2013 Ashes

By madmonk - 21-07-2013 14:48

[BotP]

Isn't that exactly what Australia have at the moment?

tosspot wrote:

Possibly, but with an average of 35-40 it would be easy to replace you as a lot of batsmen have those averages and better in first class.

Isn't that exactly what Australia have at the moment?

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 15:09

[AUSNZ]

It's exactly what they're doing too - replacing them till they find one that works... (hence the relatively short careers for some)

madmonk wrote:

Isn't that exactly what Australia have at the moment?

It's exactly what they're doing too - replacing them till they find one that works... (hence the relatively short careers for some)

Re: 2013 Ashes

By madmonk - 21-07-2013 15:12

[BotP]

And we've been there and done that with trying replacements - hick, ramprakash, Crawley come to mind, judging by the last Shield season there isn't a host of batsmen demanding their chance. From England we'd probably worry a bit more about katich, north, voges, d husseyAnd we've been there and done that with trying replacements - hick, ramprakash, Crawley come to mind, judging by the last Shield season there isn't a host of batsmen demanding their chance. From England we'd probably worry a bit more about katich, north, voges, d hussey

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 15:22

[AUSNZ]

Katich is 37. North had his chance and did no better than what we got (and is now 33 or 34) I think Voges would be good (he's 33), from his ODI and T20 record - but that's the problem with cricket... those games have saved and ruined it at the same time. Hussey is also 35 and really a ODI/T20 specialist. He could have been good, but he would have had to push his brother out of the team a number of years ago.Katich is 37.

North had his chance and did no better than what we got (and is now 33 or 34)

I think Voges would be good (he's 33), from his ODI and T20 record - but that's the problem with cricket... those games have saved and ruined it at the same time.

Hussey is also 35 and really a ODI/T20 specialist. He could have been good, but he would have had to push his brother out of the team a number of years ago.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By madmonk - 21-07-2013 16:24

[BotP]

Problem is I still think we'd be more concerned about those 30 somethings than Watson Hughes smith etc How long has Watson been around for avg 35? Let him be an odi/20-20 specialist especially if he and Clarke don't get onProblem is I still think we'd be more concerned about those 30 somethings than Watson Hughes smith etc

How long has Watson been around for avg 35? Let him be an odi/20-20 specialist especially if he and Clarke don't get on

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 16:40

[AUSNZ]

Those 30+ yo players might help for this series... but we'd probably lose anyway and be in the same situation when they all retire. Watson previously bowled a lot more, so his 35 average also came with a large share of bowling, but injuries ruined that. I don't think he's good enough at either to remain in the team any more, but he's still probably the best all-rounder we have at the moment.

madmonk wrote:

Problem is I still think we'd be more concerned about those 30 somethings than Watson Hughes smith etc

How long has Watson been around for avg 35? Let him be an odi/20-20 specialist especially if he and Clarke don't get on

Those 30+ yo players might help for this series... but we'd probably lose anyway and be in the same situation when they all retire.

Watson previously bowled a lot more, so his 35 average also came with a large share of bowling, but injuries ruined that.
I don't think he's good enough at either to remain in the team any more, but he's still probably the best all-rounder we have at the moment.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 21-07-2013 16:46

[ENG]

The end is nigh. I think Watson is probably the least of your batting problems. Woeful at converting, but at least gets runs in starts and hits the hardness out of the new ball. It's the middle order around Clarke which seems the most wobbly. A converted bowler in Smith at 6 and Hughes who can't play spin at 4The end is nigh.

I think Watson is probably the least of your batting problems. Woeful at converting, but at least gets runs in starts and hits the hardness out of the new ball.

It's the middle order around Clarke which seems the most wobbly. A converted bowler in Smith at 6 and Hughes who can't play spin at 4

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 16:58

[AUSNZ]

Yeah, I think Watson should go 6 instead of Smith, Warner open and then replace Hughes somehow. Maybe pull in an older player like Hussey or someone to cover for a while.

mosmosmos wrote:

The end is nigh.

I think Watson is probably the least of your batting problems. Woeful at converting, but at least gets runs in starts and hits the hardness out of the new ball.

It's the middle order around Clarke which seems the most wobbly. A converted bowler in Smith at 6 and Hughes who can't play spin at 4

Yeah, I think Watson should go 6 instead of Smith, Warner open and then replace Hughes somehow. Maybe pull in an older player like Hussey or someone to cover for a while.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By mosmosmos - 21-07-2013 17:15

[ENG]

Well Agar certainly count himself hard done by.Well Agar certainly count himself hard done by.

Re: 2013 Ashes

By tosspot - 21-07-2013 17:52

[AUSNZ]

I hadn't turned the live stream back on since Tea (had to do some work lol). And wow, that was bad. Tony Hill might be a bit old to know how to use a computer.I hadn't turned the live stream back on since Tea (had to do some work lol).

And wow, that was bad.

Tony Hill might be a bit old to know how to use a computer.

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