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26-04-2024 22:12
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Season 90 · Week 4 · Day 25
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Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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I'm here bringing you an idea... and ask for your feedback and suggestions in return!

Developing Youths today is heavy-handed and you are often operating in complete darkness. Wouldn't it be much more fun if you as a manager would have more insight into which of your players could actually turn out to be stars? This would reward highly active managers whilst making the Youth Exchange an even more exciting part of the game. It would save you the headache of spending lots of cash on players who turn out to be useless, and you would uncover gems much more often.

This feature would be launched in both the football and the hockey game. This thread show how it would work in football: it would work in a similar way for the hockey game.

No final decisions have been made yet, so you have ample opportunity to influence the functionality.

Have a look:



This image is merely a first idea of what the feature might look like, so please don't kill me on the design (just yet). :)

Since this is a powerful feature, we plan on offering this to all users, unlimited and for free. Club Members do not get a benefit. (It will however cost Team Money.)

Know that we intend for this to make MZ more fun for those of you who like to play the long game and are prepared to put down the time and effort to develop your academy. What it should NOT be is an aid that lets you develop your academy without doing any legwork. So for those reasons this should be a light and slim feature without a lot of heavy components.

How it works
As you can see, the basic idea is to let you know what the player will be good at and what he won't be good at. This feature is not to be confused with the current scout reports. In fact it is vastly different. Not only will it let you know up front about the talents in some key skills, it will also give you a rough idea on the future overall skills in various areas.

The overall areas are:
Attack: Ball Control, Shooting
Defence: Tackling, Heading
Physical: Speed, Stamina
Playmaker: Passing, Aerial passing, Play intelligence
Goalkeeping: Keeping

5 stars on an area would mean that the player can reach high ball counts in these skills. This will allow you to know that the player will be really good, but you don't yet know whether he is a truly rare talent or not. For math geeks: there will be a randomizer that allows an overlap between the different star ratings, we don't want the function to be too predictable, and no scout in the world can give exact 100% exact projections.

The report will also let you know how fast the player will be able to train.

We don't want to kill the mystery in the game. "Very high potential" could be a 9 or 10, but you don't know which one. When skills are listed as key strengths but with no indication to the extent of the potential... then you don't know. They are his main strengths, but they could be 10s or they could be 7s, that is for you to find out. Same goes for the player's weaknesses.

However, taking into account the overall potential of the player AND his key strengths should give you a good indication as to whether the player is any good or not. Combine that with a good understanding of the transfer market and the simulator, and you as a manager has got an excellent tool for generating your own success.


How and when to use it
You can do an analysis before trading in a new player through the Youth Exchange, but you can also get the report on any other Youth player already in your team. The cost is the same.

To get the balance right, the Analysis should and will cost Team Money. As to how much -- what is your opinion? We believe that it shouldn't be too cheap.

Once you have paid for an Analysis, it is yours to keep. You will always be able to access it, even when the player is old and grey.

On the transfer market we would let you decide whether or not to show an Analysis, just like with the training graphs.


Some questions for you to think about
- What do you think of the idea in general? Is it needed? Will it disrupt the balance of the game or add a fun element?
- Is the idea in it's current state too powerful? Not powerful enough? What do you think? Please give me the reasons for your answer.
- How can the current idea as outlined above be improved?
- How much (team money) do you think the feature should cost to get the balance right? Do you think there should be a limit on how many Analyses' you can buy per season?
- Anything else, let us hear it! We are open to suggestions.

I would like to ask you to keep answers and ideas focussed on this feature. Posts that stray too far off topic may be removed.

Let's talk :)
Views: 987 Posts: 40
 
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Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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In my opinion I think it's great news that the crew members finally pay attention to the community and look more at the quarry.

I think it's fundamental in the quarry and being able to get extra information would be great. Since in this way we would create all the best youth and we could see more market especially in hockey ..
Another thing that can be seen is that apart from the coaches you can see the speakers (as in real life).

If it had been better.

I think the cost should be low since they are not members of the club.
The maximum cost should be € 5000 per player * 32 players = € 160,000. (Hockey)

To compensate for these costs I think there are 2 options:

1- That the players of the quarry have free campuses until they are 21 years old. Only that of each quarry.
2 - That you earn more money in league games.

Besides, I suggest that youths who go to a training camp can play !! it is absurd to drink / leagues sub18 .. where you can not play good players for being on the training campus .. This in real life does not happen.

Thank you

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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It's disappointing that the thread is not even adapted to hockey skills, but we get the idea.
În MZ Hockey, not like in RL, it's very simple. Skillful players, maybe talented on skating or control, don't matter. Power is everything. Players with power 7 are of no value in nowadays.
So, if the analysis doesn't show 4 stars on power, it's time for a youth exchange.
I'll be short, because I don't want to be wrongly accused of being off topic.
If you implement analysis, and we have to pay for it, get rid of TCs, id est make the training faster, even 3 skills a day and make them correlated, for e.g.
Power - Check - Stamina/Quickness/Skating/PI for Defenders
Power - Shooting - Quickness/Skating/Stamina for wingers
Power - Shooting - Checking or Power - Quickness - Stamina for centers.
We can also add Skating, PI, Control, Passing for any position.
IMO there are too many power 10 players, which makes the players with power 7 skating 10 stamina 10 etc. useless.
Not like in football, hockey players should be better with age (experience should be of great importance in hockey), so training speed is not an issue here, but only if we get rid of TCs.
It's the retirement age that is a problem. They should retire much later than the football players, but that is a different discussion.
In conclusion, I don't know if a training analisys is needed in Hockey. There are more tactical issues needed, like 4 Men Power Play or 3 Men Penalty Kill or a reserve Goalie, also we were promised the possibility to set the tactics on smartphones, but what do I know?
The main idea is that we already have scout report only in the youth exchange option. We should have it (or training analysis if you want) for all our players. This way YTC are no longer needed.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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The first thing is to say that any improvement in hockey is great news, since we are the ugly duckling of MZ.
Second, to say that there are much more urgent things like that you can put the tactics from the smartphones or that adjust the visitor factor in the simulator and that it is not differential in the matches.

Finally, in small communities such as the Spanish hockey, the care of the youth is primordial and proposals such as this improvement should be complemented with options such as free campus for the homegrown team until the age of 21 or above all that the players who are on campus you can play the competitions u18, u21, u23 ... it does not make sense to encourage those competitions and then you can not play them 100% because you are developing your quarry.

Answering your questions, it seems a good idea, it is not essential although all information is useful. In hockey it is powerful because you eliminate all youth that does not have 4-5 stars in power.
As for improving the idea, I have already mentioned complementing it with free tcs until 21 and allowing players to be active when they are in tc. As for the cost, this must go in order to maintain the balance, that is, you can send 7 seniors to tc paying (assuming you have the squares u18 full) considering an average of 50000 per campus for the u21, it would be 14 players and € 700,000 for those same parameters would put, that is, to be able to use that tool 14 times per season for a maximum of € 50,000 and allow sending the u21 free to tc. This also would help the teams balance the number of players per season

Thank you

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Thank you for your input!

@masterkike. Agree about the cost. It will be either cheap or entirely free in the final version. We are not quite sure yet, there are some strong arguments both for keeping it free, and having it cost a certain (low) sum of team money. We'll see where we end up.

@mihairo. Agree on "Power" being by far the most important skill in Hockey. It is a flaw in the game that we (for now anyway) will have to live with. I think mot managers always start by developing the Power, but with this feature it will become easier to spot high Power potential in players early. Less time and money thrown away on players who max early in that one attribute. I think that is a good thing.

@candem. Yep, there are some other needed updates in Hockey for sure. This suggested feature will not fix any other issues, of course, but it will at least make it easier for managers to produce talents faster, and spot players with a high Power attribute much quicker as well.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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@Powdersnow, I agree with everything you said.
Even version 2 with strengths and weaknesses is still better than what we currently have, so it should be a step forward.

Next we can concentrate on other tactical inputs.
Hockey is an important part of the game. Club Membership is at the same price, while club expenses are much higher. So lack of these urgent tactical inputs may be a reason for why are so few left.
I have to add 6 Man Power Play. It's very urgent. If you are befind 1-3 goals with 5 min left to play, in RL hockey this is the first thing that comes to mind.

Keep up the good work!

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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I've posted a new threadabout the subject:

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12469704&forum_id=10&sport=soccer

I would encourage you to post there instead of here so we keep all discussions in one place. The hockey version would work exactly the same as the football version.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Its always good news to have improvements in hockey game, but why dont you start for the basic changes that need to be done in hockey to be more alike football first and the move on with other changes.

For example:

1) Test Tactic option (only available for football)
2) Age filter in tactics (only available for football)
3) Change Kit for Keepers (only available for football)

There are many more, just to name a few

Cheers,
DM

Sv: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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What floodish said three months ago.
So what’s up?
Still paying the same amount of ridiculous cost for something I can’t use.

I can clearly see that it says I am able to play on my mobile device, from reading from your homepage.
But still I cannot control 50% of the game since tactic ain’t even available on mobile device.
So seems to me you got a lot to fix before thinking of extra features lol..

haha whatever to be honest but feels like a big big fk u right in the face when I’m even paying money for a freetoplay game and not even getting response about this.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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@hbkkik: I see your point but this thread is about the analysis, you are expecting a response to something completely different. For now, you are able to use a desktop browser to access the tactics. We know there are things to be done -- while the football game is fully mobile ready the hockey game isn't there yet -- and we are making these upgrades in an order that makes sense to us. Obviously the football game is our big flagship but we are very proud of the hockey game, and want to improve it too.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Thank you.
Mobile access for tactics is a must for the hockey clubs.
Also add some tactical options like:

1. Reserve Goalie - for a better preparation of a future Top Goalie. You know we can't have a great keeper before the age of 26, but it's really hard to keep at form 9 a keeper at the age of 24-25 if we already have a 30 year old keeper.

2. 6 Man Power Play - to introduce a third Defender with the expense of the Keeper in the last minutes if you're behind 1-3 goals.

3. 4 Man Power Play - to be able to actually attack when the oponent has also suffered a penalty.

4. 3 Man Penalty Kill - to actually know who's playing when your team has suffered 2 penalties. Also, to be able to choose your Top 3 and/or Top 6 players to do that.

I mention that these updates/upgrades don't really need a sim upgrade. They can be introduced o the current sim.

Best regards.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Now there is a preview video available here:

https://www.facebook.com/ManagerZone/videos/463832764373342/

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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So 3 stars means that one of the 2 skills could turn into a 10 with a probability of 10-8 or 9-9 and even a low possibility of a 10-10 or 10-9.
Meanwhile a 4 star player means at least a 10-9, even a 10-10.
The other skills for a 3 star player could turn into eights, while the other skills for a 4 star player could turn into sevens.
So, in this case, the 3 star player could turn into a more balanced player than the 4 star.
It still remains a misery this way.
It looks very promising.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Sorry, my phone is stupid :))
Misery should have been mistery.

Sv: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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So what’s going to happen?
Are you announcing something useful other than the preview video?
I don’t know if you with crew actually do anything? Haven’t seen a single update in 2019, or am I wrong? I mean come on. All these discussion and questions about junior potential.. is this really where the priorities should be while the game is dropping user by user because of incompetence from those who actually can change the gameplay experience..

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Youth Analysis is live now!

go go go !

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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I had a player with 2 high, 2 low; the 2 low where power and keeping; so, the maximum he will get is 7-8 keeping and 7-8 power... Exchange... go to football, you have no future in hockey. A sad day for so many players.. and many managers too

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Thanks to some quick feedback from the community we were able to spot and fix a bug in the newly released Scout Report. In some cases, the Youth Training Speed would show a higher rating that is actually the case.

This bug only affected 18 year old players, and roughly 6% of them. These reports have been altered and now show the correct Youth Training Speed. So if one of your 18 year old players appears to have had his training speed "demoted", that is why. Our apologies!

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Promising idea, great disapointment. My keepers can get strong in shooting, while none of my field players are promising in power, except for some who are only 2* in better skills and the scouter recomands I get rid of them.
I wonder: didn’t the new scouter scramble the past potentials of my players?

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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I would like to have the option to send my youths to the youth camp. That showed you 3 skills to determine what the player was meant to be. I just used the new scouting tool on one of my youths and it said that power and stamina was his best skills. What does he want to be? a forward or a defenseman. I'm lost!!!

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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sixtyniner wrote:
Promising idea, great disapointment. My keepers can get strong in shooting, while none of my field players are promising in power, except for some who are only 2* in better skills and the scouter recomands I get rid of them.
I wonder: didn’t the new scouter scramble the past potentials of my players?


No. YTC skills were no good.
New scouting is the real thing.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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mj64 wrote:
I would like to have the option to send my youths to the youth camp. That showed you 3 skills to determine what the player was meant to be. I just used the new scouting tool on one of my youths and it said that power and stamina was his best skills. What does he want to be? a forward or a defenseman. I'm lost!!!


You're joking, right?
Train hin power with shooting and tackling. Problem solved.

Sv: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Whatever, dropped on soccer apparently.
So can you people working with crew sharing my money, try to be competent and actually give us players a game worth playing.

And why do we pay the same amount for hockey as we do for soccer?
When it clearly has like 50% less functions etc.
Just give me an answer Worthless “crew”.

Sv: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Oh it’s here as well!
That huge step towards a complete game! Well done brains.
Haha!
Youth potential update is the first update for over 6 months? Really? Am I wrong, please correct me :)

Answer? Crew? :))

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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darkline wrote:
4 stats - 9/10 skill
3 stars - 8/9 skill
2 stars - 6/7 skill
1 star - 6 or less

However, I have a 18 y.o. youth player born in season 44 as follows:

SCOUT REPORT
"Azazyahu Blank is versatile but seems to lack any real key strengths. I would be careful about investing too much of our club funds into his development, but you are the boss."
Highest potential: 2 stars (Shooting,Power)
Lowest potential: 2 stars (Checking,Quickness)
Youth training speed: 2 stars
And here is what has been achieved so far:
http://mzplayer.se/?id=0614103323
As you see, despite having only 2 stars in high potential, he succeedied in reaching 9 pucks in Power!
:)

Uuesti: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinion

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semych wrote:
darkline wrote:
However, I have a 18 y.o. youth player born in season 44 as follows:

SCOUT REPORT
"Azazyahu Blank is versatile but seems to lack any real key strengths. I would be careful about investing too much of our club funds into his development, but you are the boss."
Highest potential: 2 stars (Shooting,Power)
Lowest potential: 2 stars (Checking,Quickness)
Youth training speed: 2 stars
And here is what has been achieved so far:
http://mzplayer.se/?id=0614103323
As you see, despite having only 2 stars in high potential, he succeedied in reaching 9 pucks in Power!
:)


I bet he will maximise in shoorting at 6 pucks. It might be, that in his 3 best skills power is very good, but other 2 skills pretty low. So in sum it gives 2-stars to his 3 highest potential skills. But it's only my quess.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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@semych

There is a difference between the highest and the lowest potential, called HP and LP.
2*HP can easily reach 9 8, 9 7 or 8 8 on the best 2 skills.
2*LP can easily max at 6 6, 7 5, 8 4 etc. And in the worst case it will max at 7 4 or 6 5.

Best regards.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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I have a player with 2 stars for Shooting and Power as his best skills. He is maxed at 9 Power though. I assume that his new maxing for Power would have been lower, because of the update, but I had already trained him to 9, so he gets to keep that. I think that explains why you can get 9 pucks on a 2 star rating. It can only happen with existing Youths, and might never happen again in the future.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Actually I saw a 2 star power reach 10.
It means that 2 stars HP can reach 10 7. I already explained.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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But then 3 stars HP would mean a minimum of 9 9, or 10 8.

And 4 stars HP would have a minimum of 10 9.

Is that right?

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Yes. That's correct.
What I assume is that exceptional cases of 2 Stars HP will reach 10 8 or 9 9.

Sv: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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I got a kid with 4 star best and 2 star worst, wohoo right? The worst skills are keeping and power lol. Gonna train him hard anyway I think, just as a lab rat to see what happens 😄

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Good idea, you will help all of us if you share the results!

It would be nice to know if 2 star attributes are worth training to see if they can get to 9 pucks.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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panboy wrote:
I got a kid with 4 star best and 2 star worst, wohoo right? The worst skills are keeping and power lol. Gonna train him hard anyway I think, just as a lab rat to see what happens 😄


It means power and keeping won't go above 8. Worst case scenario they will max at 6 5.

malkin78 wrote:
Good idea, you will help all of us if you share the results!

It would be nice to know if 2 star attributes are worth training to see if they can get to 9 pucks.


If 2*LP can reach 9, 3*LP and 4*LP shouldn't even exist.

Sv: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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In case you were wondering he maxed out at 5 keeping and 7 power

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Thank you for sharing. With a little bit of luck, he would have reached power 8. So, all the other skills will be at +7. It sounds like a solid player, but, just out of curiosity, will you keep him knowing that he will be full of pucks, but with power 7?

Sv: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Well I'm only playing football for results right now so I'm not building a hockey team. Just training and selling. Since he's 18 I will keep him through the season if I don't need the youth spot for exchange and see if someone will buy him in spite of being such a weakling :)

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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I understand.
Thank you for the reply.

Re: Idea: Youth Potential Analysis (looking for your opinions)

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Hello everyone, I am a member of the C.A. INDEPENDENTE of the LN Argentina.

Reading everything and seeing in my youth, I understand that the 2 stars would be of no use but to fill in leagues Sub 18-21-23.
They will not be for a senior level, so it would be convenient (and if the HP and LP are favorable) to train from HP 3 stars, which I understand is more likely to arrive at high disk values in the skills not indicated in the graphics ,I explain?.

and on a personal level, just these last 2 seasons I have some players with 10 power. I have 9 mostly and some 8 with more than 70 pucks. I don't know if there is as much 10 power as I read.

Greetings.

Dante
 
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