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Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 02-06-2020 00:07

[POLSKA]

Lads I've been thinking, did 9 foreign players for the small countries actually helped us or it made it worse? Since this 9 foreign ones I feel for instance Irish Market is completely dead. Sometimes there is no players for sale or some poor youths. I have a feeling, when there was less places for foreign players there was more players for sale in the home market. Maybe we had to train more? Keep more of them instead of release them as we have in mind in the worse case i just buy foreign ones? And if we kept more domestic ones, then more was uploaded on the market, I don't know, but there is something ! Irish market is completely dead, as for arround 30 active managers.Lads I've been thinking, did 9 foreign players for the small countries actually helped us or it made it worse? Since this 9 foreign ones I feel for instance Irish Market is completely dead. Sometimes there is no players for sale or some poor youths.

I have a feeling, when there was less places for foreign players there was more players for sale in the home market.

Maybe we had to train more? Keep more of them instead of release them as we have in mind in the worse case i just buy foreign ones? And if we kept more domestic ones, then more was uploaded on the market,

I don't know, but there is something !

Irish market is completely dead, as for arround 30 active managers.

 

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Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 00:56

[FLUSA]
President

I said from the start that this was going to kill the transfer market, not just the small ones but medium ones too. In the past you needed a minimum of 8 local players to build a team, now you only need 2 players, you get 9 foreigners, 1 local keeper + 1 local field player. So basically, there was a market because managers needed to buy at least 8 homegrown players, even average players where needed and worth something, in the past you could get at least $300K for an average player as there was always someone in a lower division that might need him, now is not as profitable and training young players is a big investment, you need to pay salaries, coaches + training camps and if you're not lucky with the maxings, then you don't have any way to recover at least a part of your investment. Under this circumnstances, most managers are just less willing to invest in training and knowing their market is poor, if they manage to raise 2/3 decent players they keep them for their teams instead of releasing them on the market. Additionally, if by miracle a top quality local player appears on the market, rarely it will stay in your Country unless you're willing to pay a fortune as instead of battling against a few local players like in the past, now you'll have to enter a bid war against managers from China/Turkey/Poland/etc. with deep pockets that also have lots of spaces for foreign players. I don't think there's a way to solve this problem, can't go back to the 3 foreign players rule because I'm sure many managers would complain and I just don't see any other solution.I said from the start that this was going to kill the transfer market, not just the small ones but medium ones too.

In the past you needed a minimum of 8 local players to build a team, now you only need 2 players, you get 9 foreigners, 1 local keeper + 1 local field player. So basically, there was a market because managers needed to buy at least 8 homegrown players, even average players where needed and worth something, in the past you could get at least $300K for an average player as there was always someone in a lower division that might need him, now is not as profitable and training young players is a big investment, you need to pay salaries, coaches + training camps and if you're not lucky with the maxings, then you don't have any way to recover at least a part of your investment.

Under this circumnstances, most managers are just less willing to invest in training and knowing their market is poor, if they manage to raise 2/3 decent players they keep them for their teams instead of releasing them on the market. Additionally, if by miracle a top quality local player appears on the market, rarely it will stay in your Country unless you're willing to pay a fortune as instead of battling against a few local players like in the past, now you'll have to enter a bid war against managers from China/Turkey/Poland/etc. with deep pockets that also have lots of spaces for foreign players.

I don't think there's a way to solve this problem, can't go back to the 3 foreign players rule because I'm sure many managers would complain and I just don't see any other solution.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By chucky06 - 02-06-2020 08:18

[AUSNZ]
President

I agree it’s killed the local transfer market but it’s strengthened teams not from large countries and allowed them to compete at the top level too. Look at Australia for example. The starting Australian XI I only rate marginally better than my current side. Being able to field a full team of foreign players I’m able to be competitive against the top teams. If I was only limited to 3 I’d have to own most of the Australian team to have the same successI agree it’s killed the local transfer market but it’s strengthened teams not from large countries and allowed them to compete at the top level too.

Look at Australia for example. The starting Australian XI I only rate marginally better than my current side. Being able to field a full team of foreign players I’m able to be competitive against the top teams. If I was only limited to 3 I’d have to own most of the Australian team to have the same success

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By scruttino - 02-06-2020 10:34

[AUSNZ]

Which is what Tosspot did. He had 7-8 of the starting players for the Australian National team in his side. Which made it impossible for anyone else to get close to having a world class team.

chucky06 wrote:

I agree it’s killed the local transfer market but it’s strengthened teams not from large countries and allowed them to compete at the top level too.

Look at Australia for example. The starting Australian XI I only rate marginally better than my current side. Being able to field a full team of foreign players I’m able to be competitive against the top teams. If I was only limited to 3 I’d have to own most of the Australian team to have the same success

Which is what Tosspot did. He had 7-8 of the starting players for the Australian National team in his side. Which made it impossible for anyone else to get close to having a world class team.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 02-06-2020 11:45

[POLSKA]

Put it simply we can decide not to keep our youths sell them for few euros or fire them because in the worse case scenario we go buy foreign one. So we are not forced to keep them but it has good sides and bad more fun is when we develope our own. Now I dont keep many of them because i think they are weak but few yeara ago i woudlnt have a choice and keep.them.Put it simply we can decide not to keep our youths sell them for few euros or fire them because in the worse case scenario we go buy foreign one. So we are not forced to keep them but it has good sides and bad more fun is when we develope our own. Now I dont keep many of them because i think they are weak but few yeara ago i woudlnt have a choice and keep.them.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 11:55

[FLUSA]
President

I actually won the MLS and a few cups with an entirely homegrown team with no foreign players about 5/6 seasons ago, then I got 2/3 foreign players to reinforce key positions and won the MLS with 21 wins and 1 loss.... that team I had in the past with the old rules would have been top of the world. The thing is, with virtually no foreign players limits you don't have to put time and effort training players, building a team, you don't really have to work for success, you only need to play the market, trade players, make money and buy foreign players.... training is virtually relegated to flip cash on the Uxx market as quickly as possible. I understand how others might like the instant success path, but personally I find it boring and makes me lose interest.

scruttino wrote:

Which is what Tosspot did. He had 7-8 of the starting players for the Australian National team in his side. Which made it impossible for anyone else to get close to having a world class team.

I actually won the MLS and a few cups with an entirely homegrown team with no foreign players about 5/6 seasons ago, then I got 2/3 foreign players to reinforce key positions and won the MLS with 21 wins and 1 loss.... that team I had in the past with the old rules would have been top of the world.

The thing is, with virtually no foreign players limits you don't have to put time and effort training players, building a team, you don't really have to work for success, you only need to play the market, trade players, make money and buy foreign players.... training is virtually relegated to flip cash on the Uxx market as quickly as possible.

I understand how others might like the instant success path, but personally I find it boring and makes me lose interest.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 02-06-2020 14:07

[POLSKA]

I respect this game, play it over 10 years now, but the word "manager" doesn't apply any more. It was done way to easy to play now, no worrying for finances etc. With this 9 foreigns it killed the spirit of the game because it was all about small countries providing great youths to the local market, now no worries even if you are from smallest country in MZ, you can still buy 9 players from the world... And I agree when it was very low foreign places managers from big countries would not buy your local ones therefore more chances for local boys to get him, now as Darkline said if by any miracle there will be a great striker lets say, countries like Argentina, Brazil or Poland will get him. What's the easiest way now to get a great team wchich unfortunately im doiing it too.. Sell out the whole squad, collect money for 3-4 seasons, in those seasons get 2 Irish players for myself and the rest 9 I will buy them with the collected money :) Everyone is doing it unfortunately, there is no hard way any more to have a decent team.I respect this game, play it over 10 years now, but the word "manager" doesn't apply any more. It was done way to easy to play now, no worrying for finances etc.

With this 9 foreigns it killed the spirit of the game because it was all about small countries providing great youths to the local market, now no worries even if you are from smallest country in MZ, you can still buy 9 players from the world...

And I agree when it was very low foreign places managers from big countries would not buy your local ones therefore more chances for local boys to get him, now as Darkline said if by any miracle there will be a great striker lets say, countries like Argentina, Brazil or Poland will get him.

What's the easiest way now to get a great team wchich unfortunately im doiing it too.. Sell out the whole squad, collect money for 3-4 seasons, in those seasons get 2 Irish players for myself and the rest 9 I will buy them with the collected money :)

Everyone is doing it unfortunately, there is no hard way any more to have a decent team.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By chucky06 - 02-06-2020 14:29

[AUSNZ]
President

A possible strategy to encourage local players would be to structure players wages different and add wage relief to domestic players depending on how many seasons they have been at your club. Firstly you’d need to increase foreign players wages slightly to further discourage a full team of foreign players. Secondly depending on how many seasons a player has been at your club a salary reduction would apply. E.g. 3 seasons at club 15% reduction in salary 4 seasons 20% reduction etc. Something along those lines could work. I feel it would only encourage teams to save with the additional income to splurge on foreign players eventually though not really fixing anything. A solution would need to offer financial benefit from having more domestic players than not but then offer something domestically for the additional funds to be spent on, the second part I haven’t thought as much into as what that would be though Another option would be to add Chemistry into your squad. Like form and experience it would affect how your team play together similar to a FIFA ultimate team. Although I do believe this already exists to a small extend make it way more heavily and favour local players. This would give a competitive edge to teams having more domestic players and discourage stacked teams of foreignersA possible strategy to encourage local players would be to structure players wages different and add wage relief to domestic players depending on how many seasons they have been at your club.

Firstly you’d need to increase foreign players wages slightly to further discourage a full team of foreign players.

Secondly depending on how many seasons a player has been at your club a salary reduction would apply.

E.g.
3 seasons at club 15% reduction in salary
4 seasons 20% reduction etc.

Something along those lines could work.

I feel it would only encourage teams to save with the additional income to splurge on foreign players eventually though not really fixing anything. A solution would need to offer financial benefit from having more domestic players than not but then offer something domestically for the additional funds to be spent on, the second part I haven’t thought as much into as what that would be though

Another option would be to add Chemistry into your squad. Like form and experience it would affect how your team play together similar to a FIFA ultimate team. Although I do believe this already exists to a small extend make it way more heavily and favour local players. This would give a competitive edge to teams having more domestic players and discourage stacked teams of foreigners

Edited: 02-06-2020 14:36
Total edits: 1

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By scruttino - 02-06-2020 15:51

[AUSNZ]

Except Tosspot rarely developed his own talent, I mean he did, but the quality of players he bought from other Australian managers was far beyond anything he produced himself. He was constantly badgering people to sell him their players as soon as he as he sniffed real talent elsewhere, he was a real pest. But he was successful, and people never did much with the money he paid for their best talent. It was like every other Australian team was a feeder team for his own. On your other point though, I've won 8 of the last 9 Australian Ice Hockey League trophies. Soon to be 9 out of the last 10 seasons, through only training my own players and bringing in loyal players whenever possible. No foreign purchases at all. So yes, you can still do it the old fashioned way, building slowly over 3-5 years. But only say 50-100 managers at most play the game like that now, no new managers want to put in that amount of time anymore.

darkline wrote:

I actually won the MLS and a few cups with an entirely homegrown team with no foreign players about 5/6 seasons ago, then I got 2/3 foreign players to reinforce key positions and won the MLS with 21 wins and 1 loss.... that team I had in the past with the old rules would have been top of the world.

The thing is, with virtually no foreign players limits you don't have to put time and effort training players, building a team, you don't really have to work for success, you only need to play the market, trade players, make money and buy foreign players.... training is virtually relegated to flip cash on the Uxx market as quickly as possible.

I understand how others might like the instant success path, but personally I find it boring and makes me lose interest.

Except Tosspot rarely developed his own talent, I mean he did, but the quality of players he bought from other Australian managers was far beyond anything he produced himself. He was constantly badgering people to sell him their players as soon as he as he sniffed real talent elsewhere, he was a real pest. But he was successful, and people never did much with the money he paid for their best talent. It was like every other Australian team was a feeder team for his own.

On your other point though, I've won 8 of the last 9 Australian Ice Hockey League trophies. Soon to be 9 out of the last 10 seasons, through only training my own players and bringing in loyal players whenever possible. No foreign purchases at all.

So yes, you can still do it the old fashioned way, building slowly over 3-5 years. But only say 50-100 managers at most play the game like that now, no new managers want to put in that amount of time anymore.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 02-06-2020 16:03

[POLSKA]

That's great idea, I'm doing it in hockey too as hockey is not that important to my for results etc, I'm just providing my own players they are at ages 19-21 one, that's also have many of advantages like Irish hockey is poor and I will be the one that will probide soon 90% of u21 players etc. It's much more fun, great feeling. Maybe I will start the same thing in football as I'm selling my team after this season.

scruttino wrote:

So yes, you can still do it the old fashioned way, building slowly over 3-5 years. But only say 50-100 managers at most play the game like that now, no new managers want to put in that amount of time anymore.

That's great idea, I'm doing it in hockey too as hockey is not that important to my for results etc, I'm just providing my own players they are at ages 19-21 one, that's also have many of advantages like Irish hockey is poor and I will be the one that will probide soon 90% of u21 players etc. It's much more fun, great feeling. Maybe I will start the same thing in football as I'm selling my team after this season.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By scruttino - 02-06-2020 16:14

[AUSNZ]

I relation to this, I wrote a whole thread years back analyzing how player wages go up and down over time. But in short what currently happens for the down is something like this. [ul] [li][/li] [/ul]A median wage for a player is calculated based on his ball count and spread. [ul] [li][/li] [/ul]Then what you paid for said player sets his starting salary at your club which decreases over time until it gets back to the median wage 1st season after the season you bought a player - 5-10% reduction 2nd season after - around 33-34% reduction If a player is still being paid well above his median wage after the 3rd season you'll still have a reduction of 33-34% each season But this percentage will decrease the closer to the median wage a player gets until it starts to go up again as the player gains more balls Some balls and skills are obviously worth more of a percentage increase than others Hectar Sugar who holds the record transfer price of for managerzone all time was getting paid $120,000-130,000 AUD a week at first. But this dropped down to around 20-30k after 6-8 seasons.

chucky06 wrote:

3 seasons at club 15% reduction in salary
4 seasons 20% reduction etc.

I relation to this, I wrote a whole thread years back analyzing how player wages go up and down over time.

But in short what currently happens for the down is something like this.

A median wage for a player is calculated based on his ball count and spread.

Then what you paid for said player sets his starting salary at your club which decreases over time until it gets back to the median wage

1st season after the season you bought a player - 5-10% reduction
2nd season after - around 33-34% reduction

If a player is still being paid well above his median wage after the 3rd season you'll still have a reduction of 33-34% each season

But this percentage will decrease the closer to the median wage a player gets until it starts to go up again as the player gains more balls

Some balls and skills are obviously worth more of a percentage increase than others

Hectar Sugar who holds the record transfer price of for managerzone all time was getting paid $120,000-130,000 AUD a week at first. But this dropped down to around 20-30k after 6-8 seasons.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By scruttino - 02-06-2020 16:27

[AUSNZ]

I'm the Australian Ice Hockey NC, I would have 15 or so players I've developed completely myself in the Senior National Team. Just me doing that has produced reasonably competitive team when you add in 1-3 players from all the other teams that have Australians players scattered across the globe. We have 4 teams that regularly produce good U/21 players. But I'm the only one that takes players all the way from youths to retirement. I only sell my reject players I think might sell for something (even if it's only 10 dollars), most I exchange before they graduate. The rest I fire as soon as they graduate or max badly. We have no transfer market, but by producing all my players myself I always make a small profit each season. The budgets balances and the teams keep rolling forward and refreshing as players retire and those I trained up take their place.

lukaszsz182 wrote:

That's great idea, I'm doing it in hockey too as hockey is not that important to my for results etc, I'm just providing my own players they are at ages 19-21 one, that's also have many of advantages like Irish hockey is poor and I will be the one that will probide soon 90% of u21 players etc. It's much more fun, great feeling. Maybe I will start the same thing in football as I'm selling my team after this season.

I'm the Australian Ice Hockey NC, I would have 15 or so players I've developed completely myself in the Senior National Team. Just me doing that has produced reasonably competitive team when you add in 1-3 players from all the other teams that have Australians players scattered across the globe.

We have 4 teams that regularly produce good U/21 players. But I'm the only one that takes players all the way from youths to retirement. I only sell my reject players I think might sell for something (even if it's only 10 dollars), most I exchange before they graduate. The rest I fire as soon as they graduate or max badly. We have no transfer market, but by producing all my players myself I always make a small profit each season. The budgets balances and the teams keep rolling forward and refreshing as players retire and those I trained up take their place.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By floodish - 02-06-2020 16:36

[BotP]

It's a never ending debate , if you reduce foreign players for small countries you will help the internal market of that particular country, yes! but on the other side with so little active members this teams will never be competitive world wide talking because it will be impossible to gather in one single team 11 good players to try and compete against Brasil, Argentina, Poland, Sweden, Romania etc etc and I'm not talking of super stars just normal players. The youth seeding system will have to change to make things more balance towards small and medium countries in the long term and that doesn't sound very fair.It's a never ending debate , if you reduce foreign players for small countries you will help the internal market of that particular country, yes! but on the other side with so little active members this teams will never be competitive world wide talking because it will be impossible to gather in one single team 11 good players to try and compete against Brasil, Argentina, Poland, Sweden, Romania etc etc and I'm not talking of super stars just normal players. The youth seeding system will have to change to make things more balance towards small and medium countries in the long term and that doesn't sound very fair.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 02-06-2020 16:56

[POLSKA]

And maxing in football is terrible.. In hockey the 5-7 block on speed or even stamina can still make him a world player even for the 4th line, in football I always have to fire tones of good prospects which max badly on motor skills. So easier to get decent youths in hockey than in football. That's of course because of the importance of different skills in football and hockey etc. For me player who blocks on 6-7 inteligence or 6-7 motor skill (maybe in mose cases 9speed/7stamina is all right..) then he is useless. In hockey he can still be a star. As Floodish said, the level of the top managers let's say in Ireland would drop if we would go back to 3 foreigns because we would have to stick with the players we often get rid of ! But the spirit of being manager would be on a higher level than now which is very simple as I said, no risk because in the worst case I will get my lovely 9 foreign players :) I think MZ is going more and more to be as simple as it can be for many of us, so it's much easier now to achieve success and much quicker, therefore no wonder you could beat teams from top leagues and than lose to div3-4, the level of managers is getting more balance. Difference between Poland and Ireland for istance was huge div2 was destroying us back then, now I often won against the teams from the Polish top league etc, or the FLs etc. Bad and good sides :)And maxing in football is terrible.. In hockey the 5-7 block on speed or even stamina can still make him a world player even for the 4th line, in football I always have to fire tones of good prospects which max badly on motor skills.

So easier to get decent youths in hockey than in football. That's of course because of the importance of different skills in football and hockey etc.

For me player who blocks on 6-7 inteligence or 6-7 motor skill (maybe in mose cases 9speed/7stamina is all right..) then he is useless. In hockey he can still be a star.

As Floodish said, the level of the top managers let's say in Ireland would drop if we would go back to 3 foreigns because we would have to stick with the players we often get rid of ! But the spirit of being manager would be on a higher level than now which is very simple as I said, no risk because in the worst case I will get my lovely 9 foreign players :)

I think MZ is going more and more to be as simple as it can be for many of us, so it's much easier now to achieve success and much quicker, therefore no wonder you could beat teams from top leagues and than lose to div3-4, the level of managers is getting more balance. Difference between Poland and Ireland for istance was huge div2 was destroying us back then, now I often won against the teams from the Polish top league etc, or the FLs etc.

Bad and good sides :)

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By webregas - 02-06-2020 17:31

[ENG]

A simple incentive for a dev based approach would be to also introduce a homegrown cup - I’d put that on par with the national cup & league in terms of kudosA simple incentive for a dev based approach would be to also introduce a homegrown cup - I’d put that on par with the national cup & league in terms of kudos

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By webregas - 02-06-2020 17:31

[ENG]

*To clarify - you could only play homegrown players either via academy or bought.*To clarify - you could only play homegrown players either via academy or bought.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 17:54

[FLUSA]
President

Well but I actually proved is possible to train your own players and build a top quality team and when I finally added just 3 extra foreign players, my team was playing the World League D1... as an extra bonus, I think most if not all of my starting players ended up playing on the USA NT, as a matter of fact I'm probably one of the few managers that still try to train players and keep some for their senior team... the USA NT has 6 of my homegrown players on the team right now, 4 of them came from my academy and the other two where average 19 y/olds that I invested lots of money in camps and training them up.

floodish wrote:

It's a never ending debate , if you reduce foreign players for small countries you will help the internal market of that particular country, yes! but on the other side with so little active members this teams will never be competitive world wide talking because it will be impossible to gather in one single team 11 good players to try and compete against Brasil, Argentina, Poland, Sweden, Romania etc etc and I'm not talking of super stars just normal players. The youth seeding system will have to change to make things more balance towards small and medium countries in the long term and that doesn't sound very fair.

Well but I actually proved is possible to train your own players and build a top quality team and when I finally added just 3 extra foreign players, my team was playing the World League D1... as an extra bonus, I think most if not all of my starting players ended up playing on the USA NT, as a matter of fact I'm probably one of the few managers that still try to train players and keep some for their senior team... the USA NT has 6 of my homegrown players on the team right now, 4 of them came from my academy and the other two where average 19 y/olds that I invested lots of money in camps and training them up.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By floodish - 02-06-2020 18:42

[BotP]

100% agree, and its possible as you did it, but the work behind a project like this is huge and not anyone has time to attempt this idea. USA has a much bigger base of active users than we have in Scotland, Ireland or England. Without foreign players we are dead world wide we dont stand a chance.

darkline wrote:

Well but I actually proved is possible to train your own players and build a top quality team and when I finally added just 3 extra foreign players, my team was playing the World League D1... as an extra bonus, I think most if not all of my starting players ended up playing on the USA NT, as a matter of fact I'm probably one of the few managers that still try to train players and keep some for their senior team... the USA NT has 6 of my homegrown players on the team right now, 4 of them came from my academy and the other two where average 19 y/olds that I invested lots of money in camps and training them up.

100% agree, and its possible as you did it, but the work behind a project like this is huge and not anyone has time to attempt this idea. USA has a much bigger base of active users than we have in Scotland, Ireland or England. Without foreign players we are dead world wide we dont stand a chance.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 19:17

[FLUSA]
President

Much larger community of active users means we have about 40 active users in total, it is larger that Scotland but it's nothing to write home about... and we get the same amount of foreign players that a team in China gets as supposedly, we and many other teams with a similar userbase have a market comparable to China.... Fact is, larger communities will always have some sort of advantage, well it's sort of the same advantage as before but with a different spin, a better market means there's more competition for average players, I've seen Argentinian players sell for $500K that you wouldn't be able to sell for $1 if the player was American and that's because if you have a decent market, you try to buy local players to avoid the transfer fees... as a matter of fact, just paid $850K for a 19 y/old decent 10 ball American keeper to train up, luckily young local keepers are not a target for foreign vultures, if that same player was Chinese, Argentinian, etc. it would fetch at least $1.5M. Bottom line, if you're part of a small community your market is dead and your averaje joe players won't sell or you will sell them for next to nothing, only superstars players will sell and most likely they'll end up going abroad, while a manager from a larger community can train players and still sell them for a decent price if they don't turn to be superstars, they can buy to train and sell on the market with less risk and more profit, therefore they make more money that in turn they can use to buy the best possible foreign players... players that in the past, you would usually enter a bid war just with other local managers and now always end up in a bid war between teams from Turkey/China/Sweden/Poland or at least, that's how it usually is in the USA. I don't expect things to change though, I just don't see how to be honest, what can be done and I would really do is take a look at each Country and adjust the number of foreign players they can get, I find it ridiculous that Countries like China can have the same amount of foreign players as England/USA/etc.Much larger community of active users means we have about 40 active users in total, it is larger that Scotland but it's nothing to write home about... and we get the same amount of foreign players that a team in China gets as supposedly, we and many other teams with a similar userbase have a market comparable to China....

Fact is, larger communities will always have some sort of advantage, well it's sort of the same advantage as before but with a different spin, a better market means there's more competition for average players, I've seen Argentinian players sell for $500K that you wouldn't be able to sell for $1 if the player was American and that's because if you have a decent market, you try to buy local players to avoid the transfer fees... as a matter of fact, just paid $850K for a 19 y/old decent 10 ball American keeper to train up, luckily young local keepers are not a target for foreign vultures, if that same player was Chinese, Argentinian, etc. it would fetch at least $1.5M.

Bottom line, if you're part of a small community your market is dead and your averaje joe players won't sell or you will sell them for next to nothing, only superstars players will sell and most likely they'll end up going abroad, while a manager from a larger community can train players and still sell them for a decent price if they don't turn to be superstars, they can buy to train and sell on the market with less risk and more profit, therefore they make more money that in turn they can use to buy the best possible foreign players... players that in the past, you would usually enter a bid war just with other local managers and now always end up in a bid war between teams from Turkey/China/Sweden/Poland or at least, that's how it usually is in the USA.

I don't expect things to change though, I just don't see how to be honest, what can be done and I would really do is take a look at each Country and adjust the number of foreign players they can get, I find it ridiculous that Countries like China can have the same amount of foreign players as England/USA/etc.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 19:28

[FLUSA]
President

This is the list of Countries by Region: Players began to gain residency days from June 17th 2013 Region A – These countries generally have a strong and active domestic transfer market. Argentina, Brazil, Poland, Sweden and Turkey Region B – These countries generally have an active domestic transfer market, but there are times when the market is slow or limited. Austria, Belgium, Chile, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, Ecuador, England, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Peru, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Spain, Switzerland, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela Region C – These countries generally have an inactive or very limited domestic transfer market. Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia and Hercegovina, Bulgaria, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Faroe Islands, Finland, France, Georgia, Guatemala, Honduras, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malaysia, Malta, Moldova, Montenegro, Morocco, MZ Country, Nigeria, Northern Ireland, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Scotland, Senegal, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, South Korea, Thailand, Trinidad & Tobago, Tunisia, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Wales --------------- So according to this, the market in China, Romania and Countries with decent markets like Spain or Portugal are similar to USA or England..... France, Australia, Canada on the other hand are on the same Region as Bangladesh, Nigeria, South Africa and basically a lot of tiny Countries with 2 active managers. Supposedly they where going to adjust this in the future but it was never adjusted since 2013, China/Romania should be on Region A, lots of teams from Region C should be on Region B or better yet, create Region D and put there all the Countries with 2 users and no market and give them infinite foreigners if you want.This is the list of Countries by Region:

Players began to gain residency days from June 17th 2013

Region A – These countries generally have a strong and active domestic transfer market.
Argentina, Brazil, Poland, Sweden and Turkey

Region B – These countries generally have an active domestic transfer market, but there are times when the market is slow or limited.

Austria, Belgium, Chile, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, Ecuador, England, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Peru, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Spain, Switzerland, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela

Region C – These countries generally have an inactive or very limited domestic transfer market.
Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia and Hercegovina, Bulgaria, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Faroe Islands, Finland, France, Georgia, Guatemala, Honduras, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malaysia, Malta, Moldova, Montenegro, Morocco, MZ Country, Nigeria, Northern Ireland, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Scotland, Senegal, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, South Korea, Thailand, Trinidad & Tobago, Tunisia, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Wales

---------------

So according to this, the market in China, Romania and Countries with decent markets like Spain or Portugal are similar to USA or England..... France, Australia, Canada on the other hand are on the same Region as Bangladesh, Nigeria, South Africa and basically a lot of tiny Countries with 2 active managers.

Supposedly they where going to adjust this in the future but it was never adjusted since 2013, China/Romania should be on Region A, lots of teams from Region C should be on Region B or better yet, create Region D and put there all the Countries with 2 users and no market and give them infinite foreigners if you want.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By floodish - 02-06-2020 20:01

[BotP]

This is what need to change asap, you need at least 5 regions and some countries need to be move once every 2/3 years because this is dynamic and things change with time. Hope we can have this changed soon because the game needs to balance. Cheers

darkline wrote:

Supposedly they where going to adjust this in the future but it was never adjusted since 2013, China/Romania should be on Region A, lots of teams from Region C should be on Region B or better yet, create Region D and put there all the Countries with 2 users and no market and give them infinite foreigners if you want.

This is what need to change asap, you need at least 5 regions and some countries need to be move once every 2/3 years because this is dynamic and things change with time. Hope we can have this changed soon because the game needs to balance. Cheers

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By franella82 - 02-06-2020 20:32

[CBA-MZ]

In the other hand small countries have facilities to reach money playing in higher divisions and winning local trophies that most teams in large countries dont have. Its a kind of rare balance.In the other hand small countries have facilities to reach money playing in higher divisions and winning local trophies that most teams in large countries dont have. Its a kind of rare balance.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By floodish - 02-06-2020 21:10

[BotP]

Yes its true, but the real money is done in the market. You need a strong market to make the millions you need to be Top#10 in the game. That's why I think foreign players should be unlimited for all teams, that will balance the game for all users.

franella82 wrote:

In the other hand small countries have facilities to reach money playing in higher divisions and winning local trophies that most teams in large countries dont have. Its a kind of rare balance.

Yes its true, but the real money is done in the market. You need a strong market to make the millions you need to be Top#10 in the game. That's why I think foreign players should be unlimited for all teams, that will balance the game for all users.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By franella82 - 02-06-2020 21:48

[CBA-MZ]

Thats not really accurate, check the Top divisions of WL, you will see teams from big communities like Argentina, Turkey, China, Poland or Brasil and many of small countries like Perú, Norway, Venezuela, Australia, etc. with equal or biggers budgets.

floodish wrote:

Yes its true, but the real money is done in the market. You need a strong market to make the millions you need to be Top#10 in the game. That's why I think foreign players should be unlimited for all teams, that will balance the game for all users.

Thats not really accurate, check the Top divisions of WL, you will see teams from big communities like Argentina, Turkey, China, Poland or Brasil and many of small countries like Perú, Norway, Venezuela, Australia, etc. with equal or biggers budgets.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 22:20

[FLUSA]
President

It's a lot easier to make money in Countries like Argentina, you can buy a 19 y/old, give him a TC and then sell him 3 months later for a profit, rinse/repeat with 10 players a season and you'll have made more money than anyone can possibly make just by playing cups or playing on a higher league. On a small Country, you just don't have local players to do that....

franella82 wrote:

Thats not really accurate, check the Top divisions of WL, you will see teams from big communities like Argentina, Turkey, China, Poland or Brasil and many of small countries like Perú, Norway, Venezuela, Australia, etc. with equal or biggers budgets.

It's a lot easier to make money in Countries like Argentina, you can buy a 19 y/old, give him a TC and then sell him 3 months later for a profit, rinse/repeat with 10 players a season and you'll have made more money than anyone can possibly make just by playing cups or playing on a higher league. On a small Country, you just don't have local players to do that....

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By floodish - 02-06-2020 22:27

[BotP]

The WL is a great example that is nearly impossible for small countries to have teams up there, check the Top League and Div1 (48 teams) Argentina: 11 Turkey: 7 China: 6 Poland: 4 Sweden: 3 Brasil: 3 Peru: 2 Italia: 2 Rumania: 2 Spain: 2 Norway: 2 USA: 1 Greece: 1 Venezuela: 1 Belgium: 1 The same countries dominating the world: Argentina, Turkey, China, Poland, Sweden, Brasil. When we talk of small countries we talk of countries with less than 10/15 active members. Great surprise to see Peru and Venezuela but this 3 users have more than 10 years in the gameThe WL is a great example that is nearly impossible for small countries to have teams up there, check the Top League and Div1 (48 teams)

Argentina: 11
Turkey: 7
China: 6
Poland: 4
Sweden: 3
Brasil: 3
Peru: 2
Italia: 2
Rumania: 2
Spain: 2
Norway: 2
USA: 1
Greece: 1
Venezuela: 1
Belgium: 1

The same countries dominating the world: Argentina, Turkey, China, Poland, Sweden, Brasil. When we talk of small countries we talk of countries with less than 10/15 active members. Great surprise to see Peru and Venezuela but this 3 users have more than 10 years in the game

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By floodish - 02-06-2020 22:29

[BotP]

Exactly, this is my point. Local market for small countries doesnt exist , that why we need unlimited foreign players so we can balance with stronger nations and have fun also.

darkline wrote:

It's a lot easier to make money in Countries like Argentina, you can buy a 19 y/old, give him a TC and then sell him 3 months later for a profit, rinse/repeat with 10 players a season and you'll have made more money than anyone can possibly make just by playing cups or playing on a higher league. On a small Country, you just don't have local players to do that....

Exactly, this is my point. Local market for small countries doesnt exist , that why we need unlimited foreign players so we can balance with stronger nations and have fun also.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 02-06-2020 22:49

[POLSKA]

That's right, we countries like Ireland or Scotland can't make profit really, because I wouldn't bother to waste my foreign spot for some u21 player to train him, risk if he would be good etc. Btw you need to buy 4/5 players for profit,train them etc who would waste 4 foreigns spot to do that?, If you try the domestic market you can get nothing, the player if they are any there are usually some garbage. Actually if there was no limit on foreigns than I think it would be equal chances a bit, becaue I would try to find some young ones and make money on them as there would be no limit. It's all vicious circle! Maybe senior leagues should be done the same way the world leagues are and then join the market, but it's just my thoughts I would feel a bit wierd not to have our lovely Irish league :)That's right, we countries like Ireland or Scotland can't make profit really, because I wouldn't bother to waste my foreign spot for some u21 player to train him, risk if he would be good etc. Btw you need to buy 4/5 players for profit,train them etc who would waste 4 foreigns spot to do that?, If you try the domestic market you can get nothing, the player if they are any there are usually some garbage.

Actually if there was no limit on foreigns than I think it would be equal chances a bit, becaue I would try to find some young ones and make money on them as there would be no limit.

It's all vicious circle!

Maybe senior leagues should be done the same way the world leagues are and then join the market, but it's just my thoughts I would feel a bit wierd not to have our lovely Irish league :)

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 22:58

[FLUSA]
President

To be honest when I mentioned unlimited foreign players I was thinking tiny & virtually unexistant Countries with only 2/3 active managers but even then, it could end up being too much of an advantage, though the nuclear option to even everything out would be to eliminate local markets altogether by giving unlimited foreign players to all Countries.

floodish wrote:

Exactly, this is my point. Local market for small countries doesnt exist , that why we need unlimited foreign players so we can balance with stronger nations and have fun also.

To be honest when I mentioned unlimited foreign players I was thinking tiny & virtually unexistant Countries with only 2/3 active managers but even then, it could end up being too much of an advantage, though the nuclear option to even everything out would be to eliminate local markets altogether by giving unlimited foreign players to all Countries.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 23:05

[FLUSA]
President

With that said... I just wouldn't like to see unlimited foreign players, it would make the game even more market dependent than it is now and teams that already have large amounts of money made by profiting their local markets will have free reign to use that money on the market without any limits, not good... Like I said before, the only thing that really needs urgent attention is the redistribution of the Regions and maybe creating 1/2 more Regions because right now, they're really screwed up with many teams not being in the Region they should belong.With that said... I just wouldn't like to see unlimited foreign players, it would make the game even more market dependent than it is now and teams that already have large amounts of money made by profiting their local markets will have free reign to use that money on the market without any limits, not good...

Like I said before, the only thing that really needs urgent attention is the redistribution of the Regions and maybe creating 1/2 more Regions because right now, they're really screwed up with many teams not being in the Region they should belong.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 02-06-2020 23:26

[POLSKA]

Ye imagine the big countries having no limit, this would be madness. I think the unlimited foreigns should be for the worst countries make region D as you said. It's not fair some countries are in the same region when the activiti is incomparable France in the same region as N.Ireland where ther is 1-2 users? something not right there! They should be monitoring and updating the regions, just not fair that's all !Ye imagine the big countries having no limit, this would be madness. I think the unlimited foreigns should be for the worst countries make region D as you said. It's not fair some countries are in the same region when the activiti is incomparable France in the same region as N.Ireland where ther is 1-2 users? something not right there! They should be monitoring and updating the regions, just not fair that's all !

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 02-06-2020 23:57

[FLUSA]
President

Just to be fair, is not a good comparison, if a Country has 1100 active managers like Argentina, it's more likely than 11 of those managers will be good enough to make the top division than if your Country has 50 managers, Norway has 50 active managers (going by National Cup registrations) and hanzhino has managed to consistenly be one of the top managers in the World, not only he made the WL top/d1 but also a fellow Norwegian manager.. that's 2 managers out of 50, meaning 4% of the managers in Norway despite being a medium/small Country play on WL TOP/D1 compared to 0.01% of the managers from Argentina. The point is that good managers will always be good, if you see more managers from certain Countries dominating is not because they have an advantage or because they're better, it's only because they have more users, as a matter of fact, if you add up all the users from small Countries on top/d1 WL you'll probably find out that they're much better and a larger percentile of them are top teams and that's because they're forced to put more time & effort into the game and become better managers.

floodish wrote:

The WL is a great example that is nearly impossible for small countries to have teams up there, check the Top League and Div1 (48 teams)

Argentina: 11
Turkey: 7
China: 6
Poland: 4
Sweden: 3
Brasil: 3
Peru: 2
Italia: 2
Rumania: 2
Spain: 2
Norway: 2
USA: 1
Greece: 1
Venezuela: 1
Belgium: 1

The same countries dominating the world: Argentina, Turkey, China, Poland, Sweden, Brasil. When we talk of small countries we talk of countries with less than 10/15 active members. Great surprise to see Peru and Venezuela but this 3 users have more than 10 years in the game

Just to be fair, is not a good comparison, if a Country has 1100 active managers like Argentina, it's more likely than 11 of those managers will be good enough to make the top division than if your Country has 50 managers, Norway has 50 active managers (going by National Cup registrations) and hanzhino has managed to consistenly be one of the top managers in the World, not only he made the WL top/d1 but also a fellow Norwegian manager.. that's 2 managers out of 50, meaning 4% of the managers in Norway despite being a medium/small Country play on WL TOP/D1 compared to 0.01% of the managers from Argentina.

The point is that good managers will always be good, if you see more managers from certain Countries dominating is not because they have an advantage or because they're better, it's only because they have more users, as a matter of fact, if you add up all the users from small Countries on top/d1 WL you'll probably find out that they're much better and a larger percentile of them are top teams and that's because they're forced to put more time & effort into the game and become better managers.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By darkline - 03-06-2020 00:03

[FLUSA]
President

Don't think unlimited is a good idea, but a larger amount like 12 foreigners will be a good idea, that way they can buy a few foreigners to flip in the market if they want to without affecting their teams. But like I said, we just can't have teams like China/Romania on the same Region as USA/England/Peru or Vietnam/Liechtenstein/Luxembourg on the same Region as Colombia/Australia/France/Canada, it's just not fair as some of this Countries are not comparable creating an unfair advantage for some Countries like China for example.

lukaszsz182 wrote:

Ye imagine the big countries having no limit, this would be madness. I think the unlimited foreigns should be for the worst countries make region D as you said. It's not fair some countries are in the same region when the activiti is incomparable France in the same region as N.Ireland where ther is 1-2 users? something not right there! They should be monitoring and updating the regions, just not fair that's all !

Don't think unlimited is a good idea, but a larger amount like 12 foreigners will be a good idea, that way they can buy a few foreigners to flip in the market if they want to without affecting their teams.

But like I said, we just can't have teams like China/Romania on the same Region as USA/England/Peru or Vietnam/Liechtenstein/Luxembourg on the same Region as Colombia/Australia/France/Canada, it's just not fair as some of this Countries are not comparable creating an unfair advantage for some Countries like China for example.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By deleted_5240478 - 06-06-2020 16:50

I always thought that we should have combined nations British and Irish combined all Those nations are classed at home grown! Same for other smaller nation near each other!I always thought that we should have combined nations

British and Irish combined all Those nations are classed at home grown!

Same for other smaller nation near each other!

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 06-06-2020 19:50

[POLSKA]

ye had the same idea, those countries should be done as one senior league. What fun is it for Wales or N.Ireland where they have maxixmum 2-3 managers active per top league.ye had the same idea, those countries should be done as one senior league. What fun is it for Wales or N.Ireland where they have maxixmum 2-3 managers active per top league.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By charef (FA) (NC) - 07-06-2020 02:57

[PV]

When a country has 5 or 6 active managers like us, we will not have active market too.When a country has 5 or 6 active managers like us, we will not have active market too.

Edited: 07-06-2020 03:03
Total edits: 2

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By charef (FA) (NC) - 07-06-2020 02:58

[PV]

But with this, we had 3 strong teams competing on the title. Before it was only me playing and finishing with 66 pts. It's harder now, but it's more fun.But with this, we had 3 strong teams competing on the title.
Before it was only me playing and finishing with 66 pts.
It's harder now, but it's more fun.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By charef (FA) (NC) - 07-06-2020 03:00

[PV]

I forgot also that with foreigners i had the chance to compete on high level.I forgot also that with foreigners i had the chance to compete on high level.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By charef (FA) (NC) - 07-06-2020 03:01

[PV]

As a national coach i struggle to find domestic players too.As a national coach i struggle to find domestic players too.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By chucky06 - 07-06-2020 03:46

[AUSNZ]
President

The best model for foreign players would be an allowance based on active users. Countries like China and Argentina Should only get 3 spots and so forth till you reach countries with 3 active users who should get 8 spots.The best model for foreign players would be an allowance based on active users. Countries like China and Argentina Should only get 3 spots and so forth till you reach countries with 3 active users who should get 8 spots.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By caiobos - 10-06-2020 02:52

[CIMZ]

Investiment on youths is always the key, even in big countries like Brasil. The new youth scout for sure you help managers to train better and discard useless players before. This should help in your case for sure. I remember back in 2007 creating a team based on my youths and that time there was few free TC and no scout.Investiment on youths is always the key, even in big countries like Brasil.
The new youth scout for sure you help managers to train better and discard useless players before. This should help in your case for sure.

I remember back in 2007 creating a team based on my youths and that time there was few free TC and no scout.

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By sweem (NCA) - 11-06-2020 11:07

Representing a small country Some initiatives I try doing myself: * If a new team signs up (I follow the MZ World daily, to see if I can help retaining the new managers in my country that signs up) * Trying to encourage existing teams to go for youth training. Our nation is not as educated in how fundamental this aspect of the game is. Our managers might get just 1-5 youths. Other opinions, I share the same concerns but I still think it's fun to play MZ. If I wanted to win our top league each season, I could, but that's not the fun part for me. Right now, my priority is getting a bank-roll built up - for this, I have bought 9 foreigners at age 19-20. I will sell for profit. Eventually, I hope to have a U21 team consisting of local talent and would then be able to buy competitive U21 foreign players, to also hopefully begin to climb on the U21 ladder (WL etc) What I would love MZ to do, is that whenever a new team signs up from small countries - by default, you have your loyal player + a bunch of average ones. But, throw x number of youths in there too, make it part of the package so that users see the benefit of it, rather than having to spend a long learning curve to make that decision themselvesRepresenting a small country

Some initiatives I try doing myself:

* If a new team signs up (I follow the MZ World daily, to see if I can help retaining the new managers in my country that signs up)

* Trying to encourage existing teams to go for youth training. Our nation is not as educated in how fundamental this aspect of the game is. Our managers might get just 1-5 youths.

Other opinions, I share the same concerns but I still think it's fun to play MZ. If I wanted to win our top league each season, I could, but that's not the fun part for me. Right now, my priority is getting a bank-roll built up - for this, I have bought 9 foreigners at age 19-20. I will sell for profit. Eventually, I hope to have a U21 team consisting of local talent and would then be able to buy competitive U21 foreign players, to also hopefully begin to climb on the U21 ladder (WL etc)

What I would love MZ to do, is that whenever a new team signs up from small countries - by default, you have your loyal player + a bunch of average ones. But, throw x number of youths in there too, make it part of the package so that users see the benefit of it, rather than having to spend a long learning curve to make that decision themselves

Re: Transfer Market of small countries

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 11-06-2020 11:57

[POLSKA]

This loyal players when new teams start is making too easy for them ! When I started we never had loyal players but some extremely bad seniors who were useless and we had to start with our own youths. Texting etc the newcomers is a good idea, i tried it many times, but some of them won't even respond to you so sometimes it's a waste of time. I have to say it's hard for new users to stay in the game, every 2nd click in the game you will get the info of "only for club members".This loyal players when new teams start is making too easy for them ! When I started we never had loyal players but some extremely bad seniors who were useless and we had to start with our own youths.

Texting etc the newcomers is a good idea, i tried it many times, but some of them won't even respond to you so sometimes it's a waste of time.

I have to say it's hard for new users to stay in the game, every 2nd click in the game you will get the info of "only for club members".

 

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