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11-05-2024 05:00
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Season 90 · Week 6 · Day 40
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Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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We are edging closer towards a finished design for the Youth Potential Analysis feature! This last version has a few improvements and has also been given a visual overhaul to fit better with the rest of the content on the site.

This is the last discussion thread we will post about this topic, so if there are no serious arguments against the suggested design it is likely that the final product will be similar to what is outlined here. We think that a nice balance has finally been reached, thanks to an abundance of great feedback. On a personal note it's been great fun to work with the community on this nifty little feature. Really enjoyed reading all your messages in the forums, social media, chat and so on. Thank you!



The analyst will show you two strengths and two weaknesses. This was requested in the last thread, and we agree. You get a much better overview this way, and two weaknesses instead of one gives you better opportunity to weed out players that are weak in important areas. Note that in case of a tie between two or more attributes, he will choose one of them at random.

Four stars instead of three gives us better opportunity to differentiate between good and very good players, and the weaknesses also makes more sense (with a three-star system, they would often end up with one star).

The "Lowest potential" area can list any attributes (as opposed to the last version where the analyst would choose between certain key skills).

The old scout info has been fused in with the Analysis (the bit at the bottom where you see which skills the player will train if you send him to YTC). This, together with the rest of the analysis, is very useful information.

"Overall" rating has been removed. It will only lead to confusion, and we prefer that the manager him/herself make the distinction between a good and bad player.

The feature will not cost team money to use. You can freely check out reports on any youth player in your squad or the youth exchange. The Analysis would follow the player throughout his career (even as a senior). It would be visible on the player market and when a player is sold, the Analysis would go along with the player. We know that some of you wanted a fee (to add a level of decision-making) but we believe that the report in itself will lead to many interesting and difficult management decisions.

The training speed will indicate how fast the player will train as a youth. A player who train slow as a youth (compared to other youths) may train much better as a senior (compared to other seniors). Of course, this case could also be the reverse. The analyst will not be able to project how fast the player will train as a senior.

And to reiterate from last thread
  • This is a free-for-all feature (no CM benefits)
  • Set pieces would not show up as strength, nor as a weakness
  • The report would be visible on the player market and when a player is sold, the analysis would go along with the player.


    Thoughts? :)
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    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    powdersnow wrote:
    Can't tell you exactly when yet guys. We're hoping at the start of season 70 but can't make any promises. Worst case scenario it'll be at the start of season 71.


    Nahhhh it has to be for the start of season 70. Nice round number. 70. Who begins things at 71?

    lol

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    mihairo wrote:
    It's perfect.
    Thank you Crew for your work!


    +1

    Sv: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    powdersnow wrote:
    Can't tell you exactly when yet guys. We're hoping at the start of season 70 but can't make any promises. Worst case scenario it'll be at the start of season 71.


    I'm selling my super team in hockey to get ready for the new MZ towards the end of this season anyway. Getting excited!

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    When will it be certain which season?🤔

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    🤔👆❔

    Sv: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Now that we get four things to keep track of, it would have been nice to get a fourth flag on notes.
    Red - green - yellow - ?

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    [TDF]
    President
    tiger13 wrote:
    Now that we get four things to keep track of, it would have been nice to get a fourth flag on notes.
    Red - green - yellow - ?


    BlueH

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    In this case we would need 5 colors. Like blue for strengths and orange or purple for weaknesses.
    If we use 3 colors, we can add to the YTC skills with yellow the strengths and the weaknesses will probably become red very early.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    [RAF]
    President
    CREW should first solve these issues in relation to youths:
    - not train PI in TC at all (since they have reduced speed and it's a nonsense);
    - corelate no. of starting balls with preffered skill.

    From that point on - if this is solved, the rest is a bonus.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    This is the biggest (positive) change for nonCM in the last 5-10 years. Very nice, too bad I don't have time for this game anymore :))

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    [RAF]
    President
    And by the way: why is Youth Conditioning Camp not cancelable???

    I just have a player replaced last week, the new one had 21 balls, sent him to speed-only YCC and he maxed at 4@ with two days left. I would like to cancel and replace him once more but then again, what do you know, I can not!

    Can this be fixed, please?

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Yes, he will probably train something else, a random skill, for 2 days

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    [RAF]
    President
    mihairo wrote:
    Yes, he will probably train something else, a random skill, for 2 days


    You can understand why it's a lost cause, Mihai, since he maxed at 4 in speed!

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Yes, I understand.
    Thank you for this example.
    The whole point of this new Potential Analysis is to avoid players like yours.
    Speed as weakness means not bringing him to the club at all.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    civilu wrote:
    You can understand why it's a lost cause, Mihai, since he maxed at 4 in speed!


    It remember me my youth with my beautiful name, 9 um shoot, 7 training in control and maxed 4 in speed. The most sad day of my whole life :(

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    I like it. I hope they implement it soon

    Odp: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    leon07 wrote:
    I like it. I hope they implement it soon


    "Version 3 and nearly final" - I assume it goes live within new season : )

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    rafcio_swierk wrote:
    "Version 3 and nearly final" - I assume it goes live within new season : )


    in my opinion s71

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Dear CREW,First of all, thank you very much for exploring the playability of the game.

    I am a Chinese player.My English is so poor that I fervently hope that some English speaking guy could replace me to prevent new system from coming.I have read all your replies.You reason is : 1)There are good players wasted by their owners. 2)Excellent players have the same probability, so excellent players in the MZ world will not increase.

    Yes ,there are good players wasted.But is it a matter? In the current system, one player Steal trained and maxed in 7,owner can choose to continue training Shoot or abandon him.Continue training,if Shoot maxed in 10,owner will be proud of his decision.Abandon him is also doesn't matter becouse the good players market has reached a certain balance. NO ONE complains that there are too few good players. Instead,we work harder to make money or work harder at youth training.

    The new system will deprive coaches of the right to choose, we know he is a good Shooter at the beginning, and we won't training Steal at all.He will never be abandoned. When his Shoot was found not maxed in 7 or in 8,we don't have the slightest sense of pleasure because we know it at the beginning. The joy of these situations was also deprived. His staying instead of abandoning, increased the number of good players in the world,breaking the certain Balance of Good Players.

    The charm of MZ lies in uncertainty,It gave us countless choices,Ultimately, the owner will be responsible for his choice. New system greatly reduces uncertainty and kill Opportunities for Choice. So I think new system will greatly reduced playability.

    As I said, my English is very poor,I firmly believe that I have made mistakes in many words and grammar.
    I apologize for the offend I might have caused.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    I haven't even read everyone's response but it seems to be a consensus that this idea is brilliant.

    But of course, as most human beings, they're nitpicking on small stuff that essentially can be patched, improved in the future.

    BUT, a very important BUT. This Youth Analysis feature is what people will use (who do not have the mega cash spending power) in order to build their team, EFFICIENTLY and EFFECTIVELY.

    More people will come back to ManagerZone to see how their youth players are doing and implement more of them in the U18/U21/U23 competitions.

    So whatever the ManagerZone crew do, please just BRING IT OUT ASAP!... please 😊

    Odp: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    mayunga wrote:
    BRING IT OUT ASAP! 😊


    Smells like "new season feature" : P

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    rafcio_swierk wrote:
    Smells like "new season feature" : P


    tnrtrkgl55 wrote:
    in my opinion s71

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    rafcio_swierk wrote:
    Smells like "new season feature" : P


    I hope it smells like Season 70 new season feature 😉

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Last 8 days. Is it gonna be started next seasın? :)

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    I think there should be an announcement nowadays about this one. Only one week left to a new season and we still don't know whether this one is coming. I suppose everybody is planning the youths according to this.

    Looking forward to hearing from you guys.

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    catenaccio wrote:
    I think there should be an announcement nowadays about this one. Only one week left to a new season and we still don't know whether this one is coming. I suppose everybody is planning the youths according to this.

    Looking forward to hearing from you guys.


    +55

    Sv: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    I think this will be implented next season. Not next week. Otherwise there would have been a comment about this right now.

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    catenaccio wrote:


    And there it is, our announcement. At least now we have a rough schedule. Thank you for the informations.

    Ant: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Will it be possible to use this tool for you former youth player who are 19 or older?

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    mwosle wrote:
    Will it be possible to use this tool for you former youth player who are 19 or older?


    No this will be for youths only!

    Ant: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    powdersnow wrote:
    No this will be for youths only!


    Thank you for your quick respons.

    Sv: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Is it comming this season or not? Need too now if i should wait to send on youth camp or send some now too now the talents they have.

    Odp: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    It will be live in the middle of current season.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    There is one thing I don't understand, Crew.
    Let's say I buy a 19 year old on the TM and the owner didn't apply for that player's training analysis, even if it's free to use.
    Does that mean I will never get to see the training analysis?
    What is the reason for not getting the training analysis for seniors, even if many people asked for it on the TM as well for a certain fee?
    I agree the matter of cost was an issue i.e. not being too expensive or not being expensive enough, but not having it at all?
    What is your point of view?
    Thank you.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Couple of questions, although I broadly like the idea.

    Will a manager have the option of hiding this report on the market? Similar to the way you can currently choose to hide training reports?

    Why is this free? I like the current system of paying to view the scout report with team money. I think if someone wants to view this report on the market it would also be good if it costs team money - makes an interesting trade off

    How will this play out with the Custom Youth Setup feature? Will the youths that come in as 18 year olds have received sensible training/progression in line with their training speed? Is there a risk that managers paying rela money can get an unfair advantage using custom youth setup and quickly discarding the players that aren't beasts?

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    cannava wrote:
    Is it comming this season or not? Need too now if i should wait to send on youth camp or send some now too now the talents they have.


    We expect to release it during this season, roughly around the half-way mark. The development is coming along nicely so I see no reason that we cannot hit hat target, though unexpected things can of course happen.

    mihairo wrote:
    There is one thing I don't understand, Crew.
    Let's say I buy a 19 year old on the TM and the owner didn't apply for that player's training analysis, even if it's free to use.
    Does that mean I will never get to see the training analysis?
    What is the reason for not getting the training analysis for seniors, even if many people asked for it on the TM as well for a certain fee?
    I agree the matter of cost was an issue i.e. not being too expensive or not being expensive enough, but not having it at all?
    What is your point of view?
    Thank you.


    We are still ironing out the exact details regarding the first part of your question. But the short answer is we understand what you are saying, we agree, and it needs to be dealt with.

    We will need to be careful though because we don't want this to be exploited, for instance by signing up lots of accounts, find out which players are the biggest talents and sell them... (yes, we have a safety net for this, but that safety net consists of hard working admins and we don't want to overwork them). Also, the feature is meant as a means to work with youngsters, not analyse older players who are already almost fully developed.

    senile_old_men wrote:
    Couple of questions, although I broadly like the idea.

    Will a manager have the option of hiding this report on the market? Similar to the way you can currently choose to hide training reports?

    Why is this free? I like the current system of paying to view the scout report with team money. I think if someone wants to view this report on the market it would also be good if it costs team money - makes an interesting trade off

    How will this play out with the Custom Youth Setup feature? Will the youths that come in as 18 year olds have received sensible training/progression in line with their training speed? Is there a risk that managers paying rela money can get an unfair advantage using custom youth setup and quickly discarding the players that aren't beasts?


    No, you won't be able to hide it. I can't see any good reason to do that, I think the transfer should be fairly transparent, so the buyer and seller have roughly the same information. Transfers shouldn't be based on deception and trickery (or obvious noob errors), it should be based on the managers skill in assessing how good a player is, as well as basic team needs. I'd hate for new managers to loose millions in income because they didn't know they were supposed to tick/untick a box when sell a player.

    It is free/cheap because we expect all users to use it on all their youths and youth exchanges. So sticking a prize tag on it would really only be symbolic, since everyone pays the same price in the end. It's also easier to balance the feature, as well as more secure, since money tends to complicate things (can lead to unwanted exploits and so on). As stated before, we don't want to use fees to balance this feature, it should be balanced in and of itself.

    The custom youth setup is not affected by this. Youths today already have a talent which determines (along with other numbers and factors) their training speed. The analysis will let you know roughly how fast a player will train, but will not actually change any aspect of how good that player is.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Thank you for the prompt answer.
    Best regards.

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Still waiting :)

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    [MZUSA]
    President
    They said probably around mid-season it would be released - so several more weeks to wait

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    zargan123 wrote:
    Still waiting :)


    ... me too

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    mayunga wrote:
    ... me too

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    I like the random factor the game has right now and I'm not sure I like this new feature.

    We already have seen players being too similar and this will have the power to converge even more the things IMO.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    I know this is not the main point of discussion in this topic, but as many here have talked about the MZ having more options of attributes or going from 10 to 20 balls in each of them, I need to say that I think it is very pertinent.

    MZ is MZ and it is difficult to compare with different games. But I'll cite FM as a recipe for success. In FM there are about 40 different attributes and 20 levels in each of them. That makes the possibilities so many that we will never have two equal players.

    As long as we have so few possibilities here, your players will be very similar to the players of your opponents, especially with this new tool that gives so much information and leaves the future of each athlete more predictable.

    How can I differentiate myself from other managers? Regardless of whether this tool is implemented or not, I believe that this topic will be very important to discuss here at MZ in the coming seasons.

    I'm not saying that depth should be the same as FM or any other game. But it will require a greater variety of possibilities for each player, so that each manager's strategy possibilities increase and the game will become more diverse, unpredictable and, more importantly, success will depend on the improvisation of each manager. And, in my opinion, the game is tending to be stagnant.

    I would like to hear what you guys think about this trend.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Try Youth Potential Analysis - version 1.
    That's where the discussions were in this direction.
    We can talk there if you want.
    Regards.

    Sv: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    joseluiz_go> I agree completely

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    [TDF]
    President
    In reality the visible skill range is from 0-40.. The green bar next to the skill balls does represent a value, and it is shown as either empty, 1/4, 2/4, or 3/4.
    This means that a player can have 40 different skill levels, but a maxing can only occur on every 4th level from level 16.

    Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    manekaster wrote:
    In reality the visible skill range is from 0-40.. The green bar next to the skill balls does represent a value, and it is shown as either empty, 1/4, 2/4, or 3/4.
    This means that a player can have 40 different skill levels, but a maxing can only occur on every 4th level from level 16.


    In reality, the skill range is 0-4500 on MZ. But I do not think that's what Jose meant. Almost everyone trains their players until they are maxed on certain skills so the leagues are full of players with 10 Shooting or 10 Keeping.

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    joseluiz_go wrote:
    I know this is not the main point of discussion in this topic, but as many here have talked about the MZ having more options of attributes or going from 10 to 20 balls in each of them, I need to say that I think it is very pertinent.

    MZ is MZ and it is difficult to compare with different games. But I'll cite FM as a recipe for success. In FM there are about 40 different attributes and 20 levels in each of them. That makes the possibilities so many that we will never have two equal players.

    As long as we have so few possibilities here, your players will be very similar to the players of your opponents, especially with this new tool that gives so much information and leaves the future of each athlete more predictable.

    How can I differentiate myself from other managers? Regardless of whether this tool is implemented or not, I believe that this topic will be very important to discuss here at MZ in the coming seasons.

    I'm not saying that depth should be the same as FM or any other game. But it will require a greater variety of possibilities for each player, so that each manager's strategy possibilities increase and the game will become more diverse, unpredictable and, more importantly, success will depend on the improvisation of each manager. And, in my opinion, the game is tending to be stagnant.

    I would like to hear what you guys think about this trend.


    While I understand what you are saying, I'd like to point out that there are also games with much less complexity than MZ both in terms of number of abilities and "ball count" that are very successful. So... just because someone else do it, doesn't make it right :) It is all about finding a level of depth that works with the rest of the game.

    Also, just like manekaster points out, while players in MZ will always max on a "full ball" there is a whole range of skill in between each ball. If a player has reached 8,77 skill balls in an attribute, then his actual skill is 8,77. I know this might not mean that much once a player is fully developed, but it does take a significant amount of time to fully develop a player in MZ (and some players are too good to ever be fully developed before deterioration starts), so there is hidden nuance in MZ that you will not find in other games.

    Sv: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    Manekaster> That is true but I reckon it is the “maxing levels” that are the important ones in the discusion on good players being too similar. There are only seven maxing levels and only three or four maxing levels that are acceptable on main attributes for good players (7-10).

    Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

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    [TDF]
    President
    engerek01 wrote:
    In reality, the skill range is 0-4500 on MZ. But I do not think that's what Jose meant. Almost everyone trains their players until they are maxed on certain skills so the leagues are full of players with 10 Shooting or 10 Keeping.


    Sure, but now I was talking about the visible skill range, and that's why i highlighted the word visible :)
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