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Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 28-10-2017 13:46

[BET]

Am I the only one that's a little frustrated with this sim with regard to how long players keep the ball? In a short passing tactic you would expect players to receive the ball and pass to the next best placed player and NOT go on a run past one, two, three players before making the pass. And in my case players end up losing the ball 70% of the time before they make a pass even with an average of 8 ball control and 8 passing for the whole team. And more incredible is the fact my 10 ball winger with 9 speed and 7 stamina loses the ball more than any player on the team lol. Is there a trick I'm missing in terms of spacing players? Does placing players farther apart make them pass more than run and pass? Because that's one thing that will catapult me into the big time when I sort out [;)]Am I the only one that's a little frustrated with this sim with regard to how long players keep the ball? In a short passing tactic you would expect players to receive the ball and pass to the next best placed player and NOT go on a run past one, two, three players before making the pass. And in my case players end up losing the ball 70% of the time before they make a pass even with an average of 8 ball control and 8 passing for the whole team. And more incredible is the fact my 10 ball winger with 9 speed and 7 stamina loses the ball more than any player on the team lol.

Is there a trick I'm missing in terms of spacing players? Does placing players farther apart make them pass more than run and pass? Because that's one thing that will catapult me into the big time when I sort out

Edited: 28-10-2017 14:04
Total edits: 1

 

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Re: Catch And Release Passing

By bestplaymaker2134 - 28-10-2017 15:03

[AUSNZ]

It's a visual representation with 15 year old animations and coding. Don't compare it with real life football.It's a visual representation with 15 year old animations and coding. Don't compare it with real life football.

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 28-10-2017 15:13

[BET]

So why do some players release balls quicker whiles other just run until they are tackled and lose the ball before passing when they could have passed the ball earlier(especially with 9 passing). I can't count the number of times I've shouted "pass the ball!" at my laptop screen. It's really annoying

bestplaymaker2134 wrote:

It's a visual representation with 15 year old animations and coding. Don't compare it with real life football.

So why do some players release balls quicker whiles other just run until they are tackled and lose the ball before passing when they could have passed the ball earlier(especially with 9 passing). I can't count the number of times I've shouted "pass the ball!" at my laptop screen. It's really annoying

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By aurelrabei - 28-10-2017 16:27

[BotP]

Hey Steve. The players won't pass when they should because they have no brain [:D] On a serious note, like @bestplaymaker said, what you see on 3D it's not the real deal. Players should have loads of balls and be put in the right formation in order to pass the ball when they should. The mistake that many managers do is to believe that a certain skill reflect how a player behaves on the pitch. The Simulator is not artificial intelligence to think that this guy has 10 speed, so he will run like speedy gonzales. It's the whole number of balls and pitch position that matters defining how a player behaves. I hope you get me. CheersHey Steve.
The players won't pass when they should because they have no brain :D
On a serious note, like @bestplaymaker said, what you see on 3D it's not the real deal. Players should have loads of balls and be put in the right formation in order to pass the ball when they should.
The mistake that many managers do is to believe that a certain skill reflect how a player behaves on the pitch.
The Simulator is not artificial intelligence to think that this guy has 10 speed, so he will run like speedy gonzales.
It's the whole number of balls and pitch position that matters defining how a player behaves.
I hope you get me.
Cheers

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 28-10-2017 16:35

[BET]

Still doesn't explain why a 10 ball control 9 speed player loses the ball more than an 8 ball control player. And yes I have done a scientific study of this on my players.Ridiculous

aurelrabei wrote:

Hey Steve.
The players won't pass when they should because they have no brain
On a serious note, like @bestplaymaker said, what you see on 3D it's not the real deal. Players should have loads of balls and be put in the right formation in order to pass the ball when they should.
The mistake that many managers do is to believe that a certain skill reflect how a player behaves on the pitch.
The Simulator is not artificial intelligence to think that this guy has 10 speed, so he will run like speedy gonzales.
It's the whole number of balls and pitch position that matters defining how a player behaves.
I hope you get me.
Cheers

Still doesn't explain why a 10 ball control 9 speed player loses the ball more than an 8 ball control player. And yes I have done a scientific study of this on my players.Ridiculous

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By theloyalone - 28-10-2017 17:44

haha mate, that's nothing :P let me know when, during a match, your opponent's 1-2 ballers in shooting score and beat your team (with your 9/10 ballers in shooting not finding the net despite many shots on goal), and we'll have a chat then ;)

killerbeeez wrote:

Still doesn't explain why a 10 ball control 9 speed player loses the ball more than an 8 ball control player. And yes I have done a scientific study of this on my players.Ridiculous

haha mate, that's nothing :P let me know when, during a match, your opponent's 1-2 ballers in shooting score and beat your team (with your 9/10 ballers in shooting not finding the net despite many shots on goal), and we'll have a chat then ;)

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 28-10-2017 20:07

[BET]

I understand the need to add some random results to this to make it more realistic but there's no way a sunday league team will beat Real Madrid over 90mins. Even if they get two quick goals their stamina will wear off and they'll get walloped.

theloyalone wrote:

haha mate, that's nothing :P let me know when, during a match, your opponent's 1-2 ballers in shooting score and beat your team (with your 9/10 ballers in shooting not finding the net despite many shots on goal), and we'll have a chat then ;)

I understand the need to add some random results to this to make it more realistic but there's no way a sunday league team will beat Real Madrid over 90mins. Even if they get two quick goals their stamina will wear off and they'll get walloped.

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By aurelrabei - 29-10-2017 11:11

[BotP]

And this doesn't happen in MZ either. A team that is worth 100 times less than a top team, will never win. Not even with all the random.

killerbeeez wrote:

...there's no way a sunday league team will beat Real Madrid over 90mins.

And this doesn't happen in MZ either.
A team that is worth 100 times less than a top team, will never win. Not even with all the random.

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By aurelrabei - 29-10-2017 11:18

[BotP]

Between a 10 ball and 9 speed but only 55 balls overall and an 8 ball control but 72 ball overall, will win the second one, in most cases. It's math, not science. The simulator uses calculation not philosophy. My apologies if you don't like my answers.

killerbeeez wrote:

Still doesn't explain why a 10 ball control 9 speed player loses the ball more than an 8 ball control player.

Between a 10 ball and 9 speed but only 55 balls overall and an 8 ball control but 72 ball overall, will win the second one, in most cases.
It's math, not science. The simulator uses calculation not philosophy.

My apologies if you don't like my answers.

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 29-10-2017 15:13

[BET]

Oh really? It's the total skill balls that count? SO you're saying that if two forwards with same balls in speed stamina shooting pi and ball control play a 90 minutes game the one with 7 tackling 7 crossballs 8 setpieces 7 header 5 keeping will perform better even if those balls don't really contribute to scoring? And I'm not asking in anger or anything we all love this game. I just want to make sense of things :-)

aurelrabei wrote:

Between a 10 ball and 9 speed but only 55 balls overall and an 8 ball control but 72 ball overall, will win the second one, in most cases.
It's math, not science. The simulator uses calculation not philosophy.

My apologies if you don't like my answers.

Oh really? It's the total skill balls that count? SO you're saying that if two forwards with same balls in speed stamina shooting pi and ball control play a 90 minutes game the one with 7 tackling 7 crossballs 8 setpieces 7 header 5 keeping will perform better even if those balls don't really contribute to scoring? And I'm not asking in anger or anything we all love this game. I just want to make sense of things :-)

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 29-10-2017 15:16

[BET]

Ok my Real Madrid Sunday League example was a bit extreme but going according to mz ratings won't you find it strange that at the mid season stage in the season a team placed 5th in div2 (rank: 3000)beats a team placed 3 or 2nd (rank 1500) in premier league?

aurelrabei wrote:

And this doesn't happen in MZ either.
A team that is worth 100 times less than a top team, will never win. Not even with all the random.

Ok my Real Madrid Sunday League example was a bit extreme but going according to mz ratings won't you find it strange that at the mid season stage in the season a team placed 5th in div2 (rank: 3000)beats a team placed 3 or 2nd (rank 1500) in premier league?

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By aldebaran - 29-10-2017 15:17

the extra balls could potentially influence the random factors that could(or not) affect your player(s) abilities during the match to be honest I don't think set plays can influence anything else other than a player's salary :ppppthe extra balls could potentially influence the random factors that could(or not) affect your player(s) abilities during the match

to be honest I don't think set plays can influence anything else other than a player's salary :pppp

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 29-10-2017 15:19

[BET]

lol. But I think you guys are making some interesting points.

aldebaran wrote:

the extra balls could potentially influence the random factors that could(or not) affect your player(s) abilities during the match

to be honest I don't think set plays can influence anything else other than a player's salary :pppp

lol. But I think you guys are making some interesting points.

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By aldebaran - 29-10-2017 15:39

@killerbeeez consider this MZ myth no.14 :P that doesn't mean that players/teams with more @s, always out perform players/teams with much less @s whether you call it a myth, truth or false... it can be considered as part of the abstract thing called MZ Random (RNG) also...perhaps the 10BC/9SP player could be losing the ball more often because he is positioned in a "risky" area for him to lose the ball (I mean, that's the main reason why you chose him, with his high abilities to play in that position) and the player with 9SP/8BC is positioned in a more friendly area of the pitch... just a thought@killerbeeez

consider this MZ myth no.14 :P


that doesn't mean that players/teams with more @s, always out perform players/teams with much less @s

whether you call it a myth, truth or false... it can be considered as part of the abstract thing called MZ Random (RNG)

also...perhaps the 10BC/9SP player could be losing the ball more often because he is positioned in a "risky" area for him to lose the ball (I mean, that's the main reason why you chose him, with his high abilities to play in that position) and the player with 9SP/8BC is positioned in a more friendly area of the pitch...

just a thought

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 29-10-2017 17:38

[BET]

I move my players around a lot to find the best player for a position and yes other players perform better with their ball control in his position but I need his speed that's why he's still there

aldebaran wrote:

@killerbeeez

consider this MZ myth no.14 :P


that doesn't mean that players/teams with more @s, always out perform players/teams with much less @s

whether you call it a myth, truth or false... it can be considered as part of the abstract thing called MZ Random (RNG)

also...perhaps the 10BC/9SP player could be losing the ball more often because he is positioned in a "risky" area for him to lose the ball (I mean, that's the main reason why you chose him, with his high abilities to play in that position) and the player with 9SP/8BC is positioned in a more friendly area of the pitch...

just a thought

I move my players around a lot to find the best player for a position and yes other players perform better with their ball control in his position but I need his speed that's why he's still there

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By civilu - 30-10-2017 09:18

[RAF]
President

That's pretty much what matters: positioning v skills. If the skills also have pi and experience, positioning is not that important (I mean calculating every pixel on the pitch). Also, consider [b]MZmyth no. 13[/b]: "a player will perform better than his visible amount of balls in a certain position area". Basically, this says that players are "created" to be better in the back/mid/attacking area - some use to say this was what YTC shows. Add myths no. 4, 18 and 35, about the hidden factor a player has on a specific day/period (week?) + the hidden factor a team has in any competition + the randomness (read "more superficial calculations") of FLs (when compared to official games) and you might have a clue about what I'm talking! [;)] Still no clue, yet? Probably because this is what MZ is all about!!! [:D]

aldebaran wrote:

perhaps the 10BC/9SP player could be losing the ball more often because he is positioned in a "risky" area for him to lose the ball (I mean, that's the main reason why you chose him, with his high abilities to play in that position) and the player with 9SP/8BC is positioned in a more friendly area of the pitch...

That's pretty much what matters: positioning v skills. If the skills also have pi and experience, positioning is not that important (I mean calculating every pixel on the pitch).

Also, consider MZmyth no. 13: "a player will perform better than his visible amount of balls in a certain position area". Basically, this says that players are "created" to be better in the back/mid/attacking area - some use to say this was what YTC shows.

Add myths no. 4, 18 and 35, about the hidden factor a player has on a specific day/period (week?) + the hidden factor a team has in any competition + the randomness (read "more superficial calculations") of FLs (when compared to official games) and you might have a clue about what I'm talking!

Still no clue, yet? Probably because this is what MZ is all about!!!

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 30-10-2017 09:36

[BET]

Lol

civilu wrote:

That's pretty much what matters: positioning v skills. If the skills also have pi and experience, positioning is not that important (I mean calculating every pixel on the pitch).

Also, consider MZmyth no. 13: "a player will perform better than his visible amount of balls in a certain position area". Basically, this says that players are "created" to be better in the back/mid/attacking area - some use to say this was what YTC shows.

Add myths no. 4, 18 and 35, about the hidden factor a player has on a specific day/period (week?) + the hidden factor a team has in any competition + the randomness (read "more superficial calculations") of FLs (when compared to official games) and you might have a clue about what I'm talking!

Still no clue, yet? Probably because this is what MZ is all about!!!

Lol

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By aldebaran - 30-10-2017 10:07

someone should start a thread called "MZ mythology 101" :Dsomeone should start a thread called "MZ mythology 101"

:D

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By dowopado - 30-10-2017 16:25

[BotP]

I like mythology!! Is this another version of "fake news" or "alternative facts". MZ is full of them. Does passing help make aerial passing more effective, or does aerial passing help make passing more effective? Does passing along with aerial passing help make goal kicks more effective?

aldebaran wrote:

someone should start a thread called "MZ mythology 101"

:D

I like mythology!! Is this another version of "fake news" or "alternative facts". MZ is full of them.

Does passing help make aerial passing more effective, or does aerial passing help make passing more effective?

Does passing along with aerial passing help make goal kicks more effective?

Edited: 30-10-2017 17:09
Total edits: 1

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 30-10-2017 17:46

[BET]

I've always wondered about the passing aerial balls thing lol. And I'm sure that would be a reason why wingers with solid balls in both skills fetch way more

dowopado wrote:

I like mythology!! Is this another version of "fake news" or "alternative facts". MZ is full of them.

Does passing help make aerial passing more effective, or does aerial passing help make passing more effective?

Does passing along with aerial passing help make goal kicks more effective?

I've always wondered about the passing aerial balls thing lol. And I'm sure that would be a reason why wingers with solid balls in both skills fetch way more

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By aldebaran - 30-10-2017 17:49

the best one is the secret keeper combo heading + set plays = "magneto" gloves !the best one is the secret keeper combo

heading + set plays = "magneto" gloves !

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 30-10-2017 17:54

[BET]

I thought that was ball control and tackling? :-/

aldebaran wrote:

the best one is the secret keeper combo

heading + set plays = "magneto" gloves !

I thought that was ball control and tackling? :-/

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By aldebaran - 30-10-2017 18:17

I thought control and tacking was for the "boots on a spring" a must have if your keeper is a short guy !I thought control and tacking was for the "boots on a spring"
a must have if your keeper is a short guy !

Re: Catch And Release Passing

By killerbeeez (NC) - 31-10-2017 00:07

[BET]

hehehe. And you're raised another myth. The taller keeper is better myth. Or hidden fact? We'll never know.

aldebaran wrote:

I thought control and tacking was for the "boots on a spring"
a must have if your keeper is a short guy !

hehehe. And you're raised another myth. The taller keeper is better myth. Or hidden fact? We'll never know.

 

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