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Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By jamie1976 - 28-01-2013 14:42

[ENG]

Would be interesting to hear what Liverpool fans think about Rafa. The guy in The Times seems convinced he is a tactical genius, obviously as he got a lot of interviews from Rafa while he was Liverpool boss. However the simple fact is when Robbie was fired Chelsea were just 4 points off the top of the League. Chelsea are now 11 behind and the only difficult game Rafa had was Man City at home (and Villas-Boas beat them last year!) He has chalked up a draw with Brentford, knocked out of the League Cup by Swansea, lost the World Cup Championship and managed a home defeat to QPR and draws with Fulham and Southampton. He is doing worse than Avram Grant and Scholari which takes some doing. Was he ever good at Liverpool? I remember he sold Alonso and bought some Italian that was always injured. Chelsea's main problem is that the manager does not seem to buy the players, letting Merieles and Essien leave was a bit stupid. But Rafa really does seem hopeless. Hence the sentiment in the ground... Sack the Fat One, bring back the Special One... maybe Real will do a swap at the end of the year.Would be interesting to hear what Liverpool fans think about Rafa. The guy in The Times seems convinced he is a tactical genius, obviously as he got a lot of interviews from Rafa while he was Liverpool boss. However the simple fact is when Robbie was fired Chelsea were just 4 points off the top of the League. Chelsea are now 11 behind and the only difficult game Rafa had was Man City at home (and Villas-Boas beat them last year!)

He has chalked up a draw with Brentford, knocked out of the League Cup by Swansea, lost the World Cup Championship and managed a home defeat to QPR and draws with Fulham and Southampton. He is doing worse than Avram Grant and Scholari which takes some doing.

Was he ever good at Liverpool? I remember he sold Alonso and bought some Italian that was always injured.

Chelsea's main problem is that the manager does not seem to buy the players, letting Merieles and Essien leave was a bit stupid. But Rafa really does seem hopeless. Hence the sentiment in the ground...

Sack the Fat One, bring back the Special One... maybe Real will do a swap at the end of the year.

 

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Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By tosspot - 28-01-2013 15:17

[AUSNZ]

He did OK at Liverpool in the early years when bringing in Reina and Alonso etc. But it seems like that was more luck that skill in hindsight - he did some serious damage to playing careers at Anfield.He did OK at Liverpool in the early years when bringing in Reina and Alonso etc.

But it seems like that was more luck that skill in hindsight - he did some serious damage to playing careers at Anfield.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By kingjaime - 28-01-2013 23:08

[BVB]

I'm no Liverpool fan but I've always said this of his trophy haul, from 6 seasons: He won both the FA Cup and the Champion's League on penalties. He'd try to convince you otherwise but penalties is a lottery, so both those wins were ultimately lucky. If he hadn't won the FA Cup, he wouldn't have been able to win the (minor prestige) Community Shield. If he hadn't won the CL, he wouldn't have been able to win the (moderate prestige) UEFA Super Cup. I don't entirely denigrate him, since he did get to the CL final, he did well to keep Gerrard, he rightly saw Torres as a huge talent worth spending big on and he was actually a bit unlucky not to win the league in 2008/09. Total of 86 points is enough some years. But ultimately, 4 trophies in 6 seasons, which isn't anything much to shout about anyway, especially considering only 2 really mean much, becomes [B]0[/B] if two "coin-tosses" go against him.I'm no Liverpool fan but I've always said this of his trophy haul, from 6 seasons: He won both the FA Cup and the Champion's League on penalties. He'd try to convince you otherwise but penalties is a lottery, so both those wins were ultimately lucky. If he hadn't won the FA Cup, he wouldn't have been able to win the (minor prestige) Community Shield. If he hadn't won the CL, he wouldn't have been able to win the (moderate prestige) UEFA Super Cup.

I don't entirely denigrate him, since he did get to the CL final, he did well to keep Gerrard, he rightly saw Torres as a huge talent worth spending big on and he was actually a bit unlucky not to win the league in 2008/09. Total of 86 points is enough some years.

But ultimately, 4 trophies in 6 seasons, which isn't anything much to shout about anyway, especially considering only 2 really mean much, becomes 0 if two "coin-tosses" go against him.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By madmonk - 29-01-2013 01:41

[BotP]

Likewise not a Benitez fan, but his record at Liverpool looks somewhat better when you see the mess that followed. If I recall it started to go badly wrong when he wanted to sell Xabi Alonso and replace him with Gareth Barry, succeeding in upsetting Alonso who subsequently forced his way out to Real Madrid. Also think its somewhat disingenuous to claim the sentiment is due to results as it was poisonous from the moment he was linked with the job. Mostly coming back to the Chelsea-Liverpool Champions League clashes (he can't have been too bad judging by Liverpool's record in those) and his comments about the relative merits of Liverpool and Chelsea as clubs. There are some managers who are just the wrong person for a club and Rafa at Chelsea is getting pretty close to Brian Clough at Leeds.Likewise not a Benitez fan, but his record at Liverpool looks somewhat better when you see the mess that followed. If I recall it started to go badly wrong when he wanted to sell Xabi Alonso and replace him with Gareth Barry, succeeding in upsetting Alonso who subsequently forced his way out to Real Madrid.

Also think its somewhat disingenuous to claim the sentiment is due to results as it was poisonous from the moment he was linked with the job. Mostly coming back to the Chelsea-Liverpool Champions League clashes (he can't have been too bad judging by Liverpool's record in those) and his comments about the relative merits of Liverpool and Chelsea as clubs.

There are some managers who are just the wrong person for a club and Rafa at Chelsea is getting pretty close to Brian Clough at Leeds.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By frankzappa - 29-01-2013 23:54

[KERNOW]
President

Pathetic. Only a Chelsea fan would consider a 9th managerial change in 5 years a way to sort out the clubs problems. Chelsea are a joke. RA is chucking good money after bad. Chelsea deserve nothing for all the support they've show to previous holders of the poisoned chalice. Benitez is a decent manager, like others that have gone before him. Trouble is, Chelsea are a shite club.

jamie1976 wrote:

Sack the Fat One, bring back the Special One... maybe Real will do a swap at the end of the year.

Pathetic. Only a Chelsea fan would consider a 9th managerial change in 5 years a way to sort out the clubs problems.
Chelsea are a joke. RA is chucking good money after bad. Chelsea deserve nothing for all the support they've show to previous holders of the poisoned chalice.
Benitez is a decent manager, like others that have gone before him. Trouble is, Chelsea are a shite club.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By geoclphredux - 30-01-2013 16:34

[MZ UKI]

Looking forward to today's game though, Reading FC vs Chelsea. With Reading's form going really well currently and with nothing to lose... Rafa might underestimate us and let a few points slip. Let's see if we can prove that Chelsea really are a joke [;)]Looking forward to today's game though, Reading FC vs Chelsea.
With Reading's form going really well currently and with nothing to lose... Rafa might underestimate us and let a few points slip.

Let's see if we can prove that Chelsea really are a joke ;)

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By tosspot - 30-01-2013 16:38

[AUSNZ]

I think Chelsea have this reputation now that they will struggle to attract good managers and then struggle to attract good players - just the ones that are after money more than playing well. The ones after money AND playing well, will end up at City.

frankzappa wrote:

Pathetic. Only a Chelsea fan would consider a 9th managerial change in 5 years a way to sort out the clubs problems.
Chelsea are a joke. RA is chucking good money after bad. Chelsea deserve nothing for all the support they've show to previous holders of the poisoned chalice.
Benitez is a decent manager, like others that have gone before him. Trouble is, Chelsea are a shite club.

I think Chelsea have this reputation now that they will struggle to attract good managers and then struggle to attract good players - just the ones that are after money more than playing well.

The ones after money AND playing well, will end up at City.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By ivorylegend - 30-01-2013 23:08

[MZ UKI]

Benitez is a phoney, and Chelsea are rich and stupid enough to be conned. Thats about it.Benitez is a phoney, and Chelsea are rich and stupid enough to be conned. Thats about it.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By jamie1976 - 31-01-2013 13:27

[ENG]

Zappa has funny opinions. Would only a Chelsea fan think that sacking Jose, Carlo and Di Matteo were all bad moves? There are some berks around Roman basically, and he is at the end of the day the owner, he can do what he likes. What the club needs is proper long term planning but instead it is run on whims, not much the fans can do about that. My old man has stopped buying cup tickets for the first time in 60 years, that is about as much as the fans can do. However having the wrong manager in charge is worse than changing a manager. Put simply, under Robbie we were 4 points off the top, it is now 13 and that speaks for itself. Eventually Chelsea might run out of good managers to appoint, to be honest that happened when they appointed Villas-Boas who also had a better record than Benitez. Benitez's win's against Chelsea in the CL, one ghost goal, one penalty shoot out and all the while insulting the clubs players and fans. Last night, two nil up against Reading, defending a lead and he leaves Terry on the bench... and they lose it. It really is just too stupid for words.Zappa has funny opinions.

Would only a Chelsea fan think that sacking Jose, Carlo and Di Matteo were all bad moves? There are some berks around Roman basically, and he is at the end of the day the owner, he can do what he likes. What the club needs is proper long term planning but instead it is run on whims, not much the fans can do about that. My old man has stopped buying cup tickets for the first time in 60 years, that is about as much as the fans can do.

However having the wrong manager in charge is worse than changing a manager.

Put simply, under Robbie we were 4 points off the top, it is now 13 and that speaks for itself. Eventually Chelsea might run out of good managers to appoint, to be honest that happened when they appointed Villas-Boas who also had a better record than Benitez.

Benitez's win's against Chelsea in the CL, one ghost goal, one penalty shoot out and all the while insulting the clubs players and fans.

Last night, two nil up against Reading, defending a lead and he leaves Terry on the bench... and they lose it. It really is just too stupid for words.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By frankzappa - 31-01-2013 18:58

[KERNOW]
President

And very, very funny [:D]

jamie1976 wrote:

It really is just too stupid for words.

And very, very funny

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By geoclphredux - 01-02-2013 14:49

[MZ UKI]

What are you talking about?? That was the best tactic of the night![color=gray]... For Reading[/color] [:D] [color=gray][b]ALF ALF ALF ALF ALF ALF ALF ALF[/b][/color] [:D]

jamie1976 wrote:

Last night, two nil up against Reading, defending a lead and he leaves Terry on the bench... and they lose it. It really is just too stupid for words.

What are you talking about?? That was the best tactic of the night!... For Reading

:D ALF ALF ALF ALF ALF ALF ALF ALF :D

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By bulldogs123 - 05-02-2013 09:31

I am a Rafa fan but not how he does certain things, like at Liverpool he was well known how he rotated the players around even if they played well in the last game he could put him on the bench for the next game. But as for Rafa at Chelsea, first of all I am not sure what Roman Abramovich is doing, does he not know he used to manage Liverpool and Chelsea and Liverpool are rivals?the fans hate him and that makes it worse,not having the fans backing you is bad so he is instantly under pressure but then who isn't under pressure at Chelsea.But as Robert Di Matteo found out being champions one time and then the next season could not qualify for the champions league? that surely says something about the team, it was a fluke that they won the CL and it is showing now. With Chelsea's performances,I guess some of it can be blamed on Rafa but not all of it. if you are 2-0 up against Reading with 4 mins plus added time left and you give away 2 goals,it would be the players faults,once it gets that late in the game and you are 2 goals ahead you would be letting your guard down, thinking they have won the game already, and Chelsea did have chances to put the game away, missed chances that could of made it 3-0. the issue is that Chelsea are a team of individuals most of the time anyway,just like Man city and a BIT like Real Madrid. money can buy you wins at times and EVEN trophies sometimes but it will not always get you what you want,but a team with better team play and tactics would tear them apart. could say that Rafa is a secret agent doing Liverpool a favour ;) lolI am a Rafa fan but not how he does certain things, like at Liverpool he was well known how he rotated the players around even if they played well in the last game he could put him on the bench for the next game.

But as for Rafa at Chelsea, first of all I am not sure what Roman Abramovich is doing, does he not know he used to manage Liverpool and Chelsea and Liverpool are rivals?the fans hate him and that makes it worse,not having the fans backing you is bad so he is instantly under pressure but then who isn't under pressure at Chelsea.But as Robert Di Matteo found out being champions one time and then the next season could not qualify for the champions league? that surely says something about the team, it was a fluke that they won the CL and it is showing now.


With Chelsea's performances,I guess some of it can be blamed on Rafa but not all of it. if you are 2-0 up against Reading with 4 mins plus added time left and you give away 2 goals,it would be the players faults,once it gets that late in the game and you are 2 goals ahead you would be letting your guard down, thinking they have won the game already, and Chelsea did have chances to put the game away, missed chances that could of made it 3-0. the issue is that Chelsea are a team of individuals most of the time anyway,just like Man city and a BIT like Real Madrid. money can buy you wins at times and EVEN trophies sometimes but it will not always get you what you want,but a team with better team play and tactics would tear them apart.

could say that Rafa is a secret agent doing Liverpool a favour ;) lol

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By grinner - 05-02-2013 12:08

[AUSNZ]

Looking at where Tottenham are in the league shows the problem. When AVB took over at Chelsea he wasnt given enough time, a bit like Roberto, and a bit like every other manager in the past few years. RA bought Chelsea and pumped insane money into it wanting immediate success, which these super rich owners tend to do, and he got it to an extent. The problem is he still demands immediate success, despite the fact they are now in a pool with even bigger fish than themselves, and they have lost the ability to pick and choose from every player and manager around. Now they must compete, and that is where RA fails, he doesnt want to compete, work and persevere, he just wants to win. Just look at his reaction when Man City were bought, suddenly he was all about sustainability, and long term planning. His true demeanor has since returned and he is back to throwing money at whoever will take it. The appointment of Rafa, is another milestone in the slide Chelsea are on. A manager who the fans dont respect, who has vehemently badmouthed the club in the past and who nearly had a nervous breakdown a few years back playing mind games with Fergie. He clearly does not have the credentials, or ability to create and manage a successful team, but is smart enough to see a nice money making opportunity when it presents itself. Now Pep has (wisely) gone elsewhere RA is stumped, and will turn back to The Special One, who again is someone who can spot a nice little earner. I would guess he has more investment in Chelsea than most given his history there, but also given how it ended i doubt he will throw himself into the job 100% for fear of history repeating itself. The bottom line is Chelsea are rapidly becoming a joke team, an obvious plaything for a bored billionaire who wants to play football manager. I under stand the fans being upset at Rafa, but i think this is because they are really upset with RA. A horrible morale dilemma is upon blues fans, as they know RA is the cause of the problem, but also the sole reason for any and all success they have experienced as a club in the past 20-30 years. The question is do you want success or dignity?Looking at where Tottenham are in the league shows the problem. When AVB took over at Chelsea he wasnt given enough time, a bit like Roberto, and a bit like every other manager in the past few years.

RA bought Chelsea and pumped insane money into it wanting immediate success, which these super rich owners tend to do, and he got it to an extent. The problem is he still demands immediate success, despite the fact they are now in a pool with even bigger fish than themselves, and they have lost the ability to pick and choose from every player and manager around. Now they must compete, and that is where RA fails, he doesnt want to compete, work and persevere, he just wants to win. Just look at his reaction when Man City were bought, suddenly he was all about sustainability, and long term planning. His true demeanor has since returned and he is back to throwing money at whoever will take it.

The appointment of Rafa, is another milestone in the slide Chelsea are on. A manager who the fans dont respect, who has vehemently badmouthed the club in the past and who nearly had a nervous breakdown a few years back playing mind games with Fergie. He clearly does not have the credentials, or ability to create and manage a successful team, but is smart enough to see a nice money making opportunity when it presents itself.
Now Pep has (wisely) gone elsewhere RA is stumped, and will turn back to The Special One, who again is someone who can spot a nice little earner. I would guess he has more investment in Chelsea than most given his history there, but also given how it ended i doubt he will throw himself into the job 100% for fear of history repeating itself.

The bottom line is Chelsea are rapidly becoming a joke team, an obvious plaything for a bored billionaire who wants to play football manager. I under stand the fans being upset at Rafa, but i think this is because they are really upset with RA. A horrible morale dilemma is upon blues fans, as they know RA is the cause of the problem, but also the sole reason for any and all success they have experienced as a club in the past 20-30 years. The question is do you want success or dignity?

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By tosspot - 05-02-2013 12:21

[AUSNZ]

Chelsea fans before 2003 would like dignity - they are the true fans. New Chelsea fans want the success - bandwagon supporters.

grinner wrote:

The question is do you want success or dignity?

Chelsea fans before 2003 would like dignity - they are the true fans.

New Chelsea fans want the success - bandwagon supporters.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By kklaere - 06-02-2013 04:31

[ASOGYE]

Dignity... Abramovich is so sttuborn, that what he is doing is harming the team, and he cant learn from the past, or from other teams like MANU, SPURS (with Redknapp) or Barza.. But on the other hand you can see he is investing in young talents like Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Piazon etc... The whole dilemma is that RA thinks the manager has to take the heat, and that is not true, HE is the one that should be sacrificed for the horrible disgraces. He needs someone to show him about long term plans and "good place to work" environments. Sacking Mourinho after all he did, Not letting Ballack to retire in the club, sacking Ancelotti for ending in Second place, Sacking RDM after winning the UCL, and Not Extending Lampards contract! C´MON!. RA is not only scarying the coaches, hes also scarying the players! Who is going to want to be in this kind of club?? And about Benitez... he´s RA worst mistake! ExLiverpool DT, its just something out of proportion. And for all the people talking about money and Chelsea. Let me tell you how wrong you are! Please look if Barza, Madrid, Manu, ManCity are expending less than chelsea! The biggest purchases: Drogba, Mou, Makelele and Cech (8 years ago), Ballack and Sheva (6 years ago), Torres (2 years ago). There are other teams that expends millions every seasons.. Chelsea´s best tactic have been to keep most of the players through time.Dignity... Abramovich is so sttuborn, that what he is doing is harming the team, and he cant learn from the past, or from other teams like MANU, SPURS (with Redknapp) or Barza.. But on the other hand you can see he is investing in young talents like Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Piazon etc... The whole dilemma is that RA thinks the manager has to take the heat, and that is not true, HE is the one that should be sacrificed for the horrible disgraces. He needs someone to show him about long term plans and "good place to work" environments.
Sacking Mourinho after all he did, Not letting Ballack to retire in the club, sacking Ancelotti for ending in Second place, Sacking RDM after winning the UCL, and Not Extending Lampards contract! C´MON!. RA is not only scarying the coaches, hes also scarying the players! Who is going to want to be in this kind of club??
And about Benitez... he´s RA worst mistake! ExLiverpool DT, its just something out of proportion.
And for all the people talking about money and Chelsea. Let me tell you how wrong you are! Please look if Barza, Madrid, Manu, ManCity are expending less than chelsea!
The biggest purchases: Drogba, Mou, Makelele and Cech (8 years ago), Ballack and Sheva (6 years ago), Torres (2 years ago). There are other teams that expends millions every seasons.. Chelsea´s best tactic have been to keep most of the players through time.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By madmonk - 06-02-2013 05:13

[BotP]

Really, Man United spending versus Chelsea spending And Luiz, Ramires, Oscar, Mata, Hazard & Lukaku weren't big purchases? http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/chelsea-transfers.html http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-united-transfers.html And for reference Chelsea's gross and net transfer spend for the last two seasons is higher than Man City as well (you can make a better argument that Man City's big spend was done 2008-2011 similar to Chelsea circa 2003-2006) http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-city-transfers.htmlReally, Man United spending versus Chelsea spending

And Luiz, Ramires, Oscar, Mata, Hazard & Lukaku weren't big purchases?

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/chelsea-transfers.html
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-united-transfers.html

And for reference Chelsea's gross and net transfer spend for the last two seasons is higher than Man City as well (you can make a better argument that Man City's big spend was done 2008-2011 similar to Chelsea circa 2003-2006)

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-city-transfers.html

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By jamie1976 - 06-02-2013 14:00

[ENG]

Someone needs to tell Roman he needs to build a club and not just see it as a series of quick fixes for an instant return. All the young players end up elsewhere, we need to be more like United, Arsenal and Barca where you bring them through. But no one is granted long enough to make it happen, let alone lose a couple of games. When you have a group from an early age they fight for each other, you saw that with Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc. I do not mind not winning, I just want the team to play good football and be solid, it is not much to ask.Someone needs to tell Roman he needs to build a club and not just see it as a series of quick fixes for an instant return.

All the young players end up elsewhere, we need to be more like United, Arsenal and Barca where you bring them through. But no one is granted long enough to make it happen, let alone lose a couple of games. When you have a group from an early age they fight for each other, you saw that with Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc.

I do not mind not winning, I just want the team to play good football and be solid, it is not much to ask.

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By ivorylegend - 06-02-2013 18:12

[MZ UKI]

Chelsea got to the Champions league with a quality 3rd place finish before RA came in, everyone forgets Chelsea were a team on a massive up, though undoubtedly the money has helped keep them there. The QPR game is the standout game for me. Inability to motivate the team to the occasion, poor choice of rotation, and even poorer subs, too little too late. Its just what the England game tonight will be like most probably!Chelsea got to the Champions league with a quality 3rd place finish before RA came in, everyone forgets Chelsea were a team on a massive up, though undoubtedly the money has helped keep them there.

The QPR game is the standout game for me. Inability to motivate the team to the occasion, poor choice of rotation, and even poorer subs, too little too late.

Its just what the England game tonight will be like most probably!

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By heddo - 07-02-2013 01:07

i can remember Liverpool drawing 0.0 with Hull City at home under rafa, it was at a time when they really needed to push on , i thought everything about the game was negative and i placed the blame squarely on rafa, i can see similar comparisons to the QPR result, but there are some bizarre things going on at Chelsea, like the ousting of people who are Chelsea through and through like Wilkins and now Lampard, the constant changing of management must have an effect on the players, the appointment of Rafa is also bizarre, the only reason feasible i can see , would be for him to give Torres a boost, i dont think RA is a football person, and although chelsea have had success, with each situation they find themselves in under RA, they become more and more unenviable, to be honest, nothing would surprise me at Chelsea at the moment..i can remember Liverpool drawing 0.0 with Hull City at home under rafa, it was at a time when they really needed to push on , i thought everything about the game was negative and i placed the blame squarely on rafa, i can see similar comparisons to the QPR result, but there are some bizarre things going on at Chelsea, like the ousting of people who are Chelsea through and through like Wilkins and now Lampard, the constant changing of management must have an effect on the players, the appointment of Rafa is also bizarre, the only reason feasible i can see , would be for him to give Torres a boost, i dont think RA is a football person, and although chelsea have had success, with each situation they find themselves in under RA, they become more and more unenviable, to be honest, nothing would surprise me at Chelsea at the moment..

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By grinner - 12-02-2013 15:49

[AUSNZ]

Today Jurgen Klopp has insisted he will not join Chelsea in the summer, and the club claim they will block any move for him from Chelsea, "no matter how much compensation Chelsea offer". First Pep, now klopp, anyone else think benitez will still be in charge at the beginning of next season for no other reason than lack of interest from other managers?Today Jurgen Klopp has insisted he will not join Chelsea in the summer, and the club claim they will block any move for him from Chelsea, "no matter how much compensation Chelsea offer".
First Pep, now klopp, anyone else think benitez will still be in charge at the beginning of next season for no other reason than lack of interest from other managers?

Re: Benitez ..... The Fat One.

By kingjaime - 12-02-2013 22:28

[BVB]

Him or Avram Grant... (Please any god don't let Klopp go...)Him or Avram Grant... (Please any god don't let Klopp go...)

 

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