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Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By powdersnow (Crew) - 14-02-2019 16:18

[BFTF]

We are edging closer towards a finished design for the Youth Potential Analysis feature! This last version has a few improvements and has also been given a visual overhaul to fit better with the rest of the content on the site. This is the last discussion thread we will post about this topic, so if there are no serious arguments against the suggested design it is likely that the final product will be similar to what is outlined here. We think that a nice balance has finally been reached, thanks to an abundance of great feedback. On a personal note it's been great fun to work with the community on this nifty little feature. Really enjoyed reading all your messages in the forums, social media, chat and so on. Thank you! [img]https://www.managerzone.com/dynimg/pic.php?type=news&id=analysisversion_prk[/img] The analyst will show you [b]two strengths and two weaknesses[/b]. This was requested in the last thread, and we agree. You get a much better overview this way, and two weaknesses instead of one gives you better opportunity to weed out players that are weak in important areas. Note that in case of a tie between two or more attributes, he will choose one of them at random. [b]Four stars instead of three[/b] gives us better opportunity to differentiate between good and very good players, and the weaknesses also makes more sense (with a three-star system, they would often end up with one star). The "Lowest potential" area can list [b]any[/b] attributes (as opposed to the last version where the analyst would choose between certain key skills). The old scout info has been fused in with the Analysis (the bit at the bottom where you see which skills the player will train if you send him to YTC). This, [b]together[/b] with the rest of the analysis, is very useful information. "Overall" rating has been removed. It will only lead to confusion, and we prefer that the manager him/herself make the distinction between a good and bad player. The feature will not cost team money to use. You can freely check out reports on any youth player in your squad or the youth exchange. The Analysis would follow the player throughout his career (even as a senior). It would be visible on the player market and when a player is sold, the Analysis would go along with the player. We know that some of you wanted a fee (to add a level of decision-making) but we believe that the report in itself will lead to many interesting and difficult management decisions. The training speed will indicate how fast the player will train as a [b]youth[/b]. A player who train slow as a youth (compared to other youths) may train much better as a senior (compared to other seniors). Of course, this case could also be the reverse. The analyst will [b]not[/b] be able to project how fast the player will train as a senior. And to reiterate from last thread [li] This is a free-for-all feature (no CM benefits) [li] Set pieces would not show up as strength, nor as a weakness [li] The report would be visible on the player market and when a player is sold, the analysis would go along with the player. Thoughts? :)We are edging closer towards a finished design for the Youth Potential Analysis feature! This last version has a few improvements and has also been given a visual overhaul to fit better with the rest of the content on the site.

This is the last discussion thread we will post about this topic, so if there are no serious arguments against the suggested design it is likely that the final product will be similar to what is outlined here. We think that a nice balance has finally been reached, thanks to an abundance of great feedback. On a personal note it's been great fun to work with the community on this nifty little feature. Really enjoyed reading all your messages in the forums, social media, chat and so on. Thank you!



The analyst will show you two strengths and two weaknesses. This was requested in the last thread, and we agree. You get a much better overview this way, and two weaknesses instead of one gives you better opportunity to weed out players that are weak in important areas. Note that in case of a tie between two or more attributes, he will choose one of them at random.

Four stars instead of three gives us better opportunity to differentiate between good and very good players, and the weaknesses also makes more sense (with a three-star system, they would often end up with one star).

The "Lowest potential" area can list any attributes (as opposed to the last version where the analyst would choose between certain key skills).

The old scout info has been fused in with the Analysis (the bit at the bottom where you see which skills the player will train if you send him to YTC). This, together with the rest of the analysis, is very useful information.

"Overall" rating has been removed. It will only lead to confusion, and we prefer that the manager him/herself make the distinction between a good and bad player.

The feature will not cost team money to use. You can freely check out reports on any youth player in your squad or the youth exchange. The Analysis would follow the player throughout his career (even as a senior). It would be visible on the player market and when a player is sold, the Analysis would go along with the player. We know that some of you wanted a fee (to add a level of decision-making) but we believe that the report in itself will lead to many interesting and difficult management decisions.

The training speed will indicate how fast the player will train as a youth. A player who train slow as a youth (compared to other youths) may train much better as a senior (compared to other seniors). Of course, this case could also be the reverse. The analyst will not be able to project how fast the player will train as a senior.

And to reiterate from last thread

This is a free-for-all feature (no CM benefits)

Set pieces would not show up as strength, nor as a weakness

The report would be visible on the player market and when a player is sold, the analysis would go along with the player.


Thoughts? :)

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Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By manekaster - 30-04-2019 18:55

[TDF]
President

Not always. This guy is maxed in set pieces with 4,25 balls. He arrived with that maxing when he was 16. [fpl=206017802]

powdersnow wrote:

Also, just like manekaster points out, while players in MZ will always max on a "full ball"

Not always. This guy is maxed in set pieces with 4,25 balls. He arrived with that maxing when he was 16.

Ronaldo Lima

Age: 40 (Retired)

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 30-04-2019 18:59

[FAM 21]

Yeah, that's the point. If players could max in the 0.25 and 0.75 marks, the game would add a whole new world of possibilities.

panboy wrote:

Manekaster> That is true but I reckon it is the “maxing levels” that are the important ones in the discusion on good players being too similar. There are only seven maxing levels and only three or four maxing levels that are acceptable on main attributes for good players (7-10).

Yeah, that's the point. If players could max in the 0.25 and 0.75 marks, the game would add a whole new world of possibilities.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 01-05-2019 03:01

[FAM 21]

I'll be honest. I just came back to MZ and am reluctant to put money into the game after I saw this new feature coming. I'm sorry if I'm being too apocalyptic, but I foresee this change being awful for managers who, like me, appreciate challenges. Nonetheless, I understand that the waste of young talents is brutal to new managers and to the guys from countries with few active members. I thought of an alternative that would help with this problem without hurting all the unpredictability that many of us fell in love with. I ask the powdersnow to give your feedback or at least try to incorporate these principles into your own idea:I'll be honest. I just came back to MZ and am reluctant to put money into the game after I saw this new feature coming. I'm sorry if I'm being too apocalyptic, but I foresee this change being awful for managers who, like me, appreciate challenges.

Nonetheless, I understand that the waste of young talents is brutal to new managers and to the guys from countries with few active members. I thought of an alternative that would help with this problem without hurting all the unpredictability that many of us fell in love with.

I ask the powdersnow to give your feedback or at least try to incorporate these principles into your own idea:

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 01-05-2019 03:07

[FAM 21]

My proposal is that the scout may submit a report of the youngster, but such a report would be based on the "ideal model" that the manager himself will create. The game will ask the manager to tell you what your ideal striker would look like, what the most important skills, and what the weight of each is. Example: Shoot - 25% Ball control - 18% Speed ​​- 18% Stamina - 12% Play Intel - 12% Heading - 5% Passing - 5% Aerial Passes - 5% * Maximum of 25% per skill and no minimum number Each manager would have his own model. And he could create 7 of them (there would be space for a goalkeeper, a midfielder, a winger, a defender, and two more positions of his taste). They could edit this only once per season at the beginning of it. Based on these models, the scout would bring the player's potential into each of the chosen positions. Example: Goalkeeper - 0.5 star potential Defender - 1.5 star Midfielder - 2.0 star Striker - 4.5 star Winger - 2.5 star Header - 3.5 star Trequardist - 3.0 star This would give a good idea of ​​the potential of each player (both overall and in comparison to other positions), but without taking all the unpredictability. As each manager would have their own settings, this would make the manager's ability important when choosing the best talent. In order not to get too complicated for beginners, there could also be "default models" offered by the game. There would still be players maximized early, but that would be an exception rather than a rule. Think of my striker model above, maybe the scout recommended me 4 stars and in fact he had the potential to be like this: Speed ​​10 Stamina 4 Play Intel 7 Shoot 10 Ball Control 9 This player would not be a great professional considering the low stamina, despite the good recommendation of the scout. But note that this is an extreme case, just to add a dose of unpredictability to the player development system. In most cases we will have a good idea of ​​what to train on the players and whether they will be good or not in the future. Best of all, managers can separate themselves from others by building efficient models. I do not think it's that hard to come up with an algorithm for that. It is easy to calculate and not something that will complicate the minds of managers very much. What do you think? Was there any doubt or was I clear? Is this possible? Where could it be improved?My proposal is that the scout may submit a report of the youngster, but such a report would be based on the "ideal model" that the manager himself will create.

The game will ask the manager to tell you what your ideal striker would look like, what the most important skills, and what the weight of each is.

Example:

Shoot - 25%
Ball control - 18%
Speed ​​- 18%
Stamina - 12%
Play Intel - 12%
Heading - 5%
Passing - 5%
Aerial Passes - 5%

* Maximum of 25% per skill and no minimum number

Each manager would have his own model. And he could create 7 of them (there would be space for a goalkeeper, a midfielder, a winger, a defender, and two more positions of his taste). They could edit this only once per season at the beginning of it.

Based on these models, the scout would bring the player's potential into each of the chosen positions.

Example:

Goalkeeper - 0.5 star potential
Defender - 1.5 star
Midfielder - 2.0 star
Striker - 4.5 star
Winger - 2.5 star
Header - 3.5 star
Trequardist - 3.0 star

This would give a good idea of ​​the potential of each player (both overall and in comparison to other positions), but without taking all the unpredictability. As each manager would have their own settings, this would make the manager's ability important when choosing the best talent. In order not to get too complicated for beginners, there could also be "default models" offered by the game.

There would still be players maximized early, but that would be an exception rather than a rule. Think of my striker model above, maybe the scout recommended me 4 stars and in fact he had the potential to be like this:

Speed ​​10
Stamina 4
Play Intel 7
Shoot 10
Ball Control 9

This player would not be a great professional considering the low stamina, despite the good recommendation of the scout. But note that this is an extreme case, just to add a dose of unpredictability to the player development system.

In most cases we will have a good idea of ​​what to train on the players and whether they will be good or not in the future. Best of all, managers can separate themselves from others by building efficient models.

I do not think it's that hard to come up with an algorithm for that. It is easy to calculate and not something that will complicate the minds of managers very much. What do you think? Was there any doubt or was I clear? Is this possible? Where could it be improved?

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By mihairo - 01-05-2019 10:25

[-FO-]

No. I hate going back to randomness. Also, I don't like being tricked. Good scouting, bad player. It means we have it for nothing. It's perfect as it is.No. I hate going back to randomness.
Also, I don't like being tricked. Good scouting, bad player. It means we have it for nothing.
It's perfect as it is.

Ri: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By goalsaurus (LA) - 01-05-2019 19:43

joseluiz, I appreciate your idea, but it's probably too complicated for the new managers.joseluiz, I appreciate your idea, but it's probably too complicated for the new managers.

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By engerek01 - 02-05-2019 13:24

[MZ-TR]

Not a sports game but [b]Chess[/b] is the perfect example for that. Only 6 pieces with very limited moves yet still seemingly unlimited number of possibilities. The power of chess doesn't come from its variety in content, but the variety in play style. There is no mystery on what a rook can do. I need to know what I am working with. Mystery is fun and exciting but the "randomness" and the "chance" factor is killing the enjoyment at certain point for lots of managers. Nobody respects a system if the scout report shows tackling yet tackling max at 6 and Shooting at 8 (I have one player like that). As a result, I find this new system a huge step forward to being a more clear and stable game experience. [b]Well done.[/b]

powdersnow wrote:

...I'd like to point out that there are also games with much less complexity than MZ both in terms of number of abilities and "ball count" that are very successful....

Not a sports game but Chess is the perfect example for that. Only 6 pieces with very limited moves yet still seemingly unlimited number of possibilities.

The power of chess doesn't come from its variety in content, but the variety in play style. There is no mystery on what a rook can do. I need to know what I am working with. Mystery is fun and exciting but the "randomness" and the "chance" factor is killing the enjoyment at certain point for lots of managers. Nobody respects a system if the scout report shows tackling yet tackling max at 6 and Shooting at 8 (I have one player like that).

As a result, I find this new system a huge step forward to being a more clear and stable game experience. Well done.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By powdersnow (Crew) - 03-05-2019 09:55

[BFTF]

@joseluiz_go With that type of system, there is an imminent risk that most managers would be searching for pretty much the same type of player(s). Fast forward a couple of years and everyone would play the same way, with very similar players and very similar coaches too (kind of where we are today). We want diversity, and for each manager to be able to find his/her own club philosophy. With the Analysis feature the way it is designed now, you will soon start to see player types emerge that were not developed before because the risk of developing a "niche" player is just too high. 4-star players (4 in strength) will be rare, so you will want to develop pretty much all of them, and 4-star players will come in all shapes and sizes. If a promising player doesn't fit with your playing philosophy you will sell him at the first opportunity, so another manager who appreciates his unique potential can snap him up. Will you need more coaches? Yes. Will you need to spend more time testing tactics? Sure. Will you need to spend more time researching the player market? Absolutely. And you will also have a lot more hands-on work to do in the training area (especially for the youths). But I think all of those things are fun elements of the game that we enjoy.@joseluiz_go

With that type of system, there is an imminent risk that most managers would be searching for pretty much the same type of player(s). Fast forward a couple of years and everyone would play the same way, with very similar players and very similar coaches too (kind of where we are today). We want diversity, and for each manager to be able to find his/her own club philosophy.

With the Analysis feature the way it is designed now, you will soon start to see player types emerge that were not developed before because the risk of developing a "niche" player is just too high. 4-star players (4 in strength) will be rare, so you will want to develop pretty much all of them, and 4-star players will come in all shapes and sizes.

If a promising player doesn't fit with your playing philosophy you will sell him at the first opportunity, so another manager who appreciates his unique potential can snap him up.

Will you need more coaches? Yes. Will you need to spend more time testing tactics? Sure. Will you need to spend more time researching the player market? Absolutely. And you will also have a lot more hands-on work to do in the training area (especially for the youths). But I think all of those things are fun elements of the game that we enjoy.

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By zargan123 - 03-05-2019 15:44

[GS]

@ powdersnow Can you tell us the certain release date for this future or are you planning to make surprise to us? =)@ powdersnow

Can you tell us the certain release date for this future or are you planning to make surprise to us? =)

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By deleted_8536705 - 04-05-2019 08:36

[MZCN]

@powdersnow What will be the possibility of a 4-star player coming?@powdersnow
What will be the possibility of a 4-star player coming?

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By mayunga - 04-05-2019 20:50

[World]

What this person asked +1

zargan123 wrote:

@ powdersnow

Can you tell us the certain release date for this future or are you planning to make surprise to us? =)

What this person asked +1

Ant: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By b2ooba - 10-05-2019 13:08

I don't like the system. I've played Managezone for many years now. And this will change my pleasure to play. Managerzone is a long term game, a game where you need to choose what you want to do with your team. Do you focus on U18-Senior or do you focus on U21 or U23. Or all of them (that's really a challenge and difficult managing). With this system, you can do all of them without even have to be a good manager. You just train youth's and if you wait 5-6 seasons, you'll have a great squad without buying anything and after a while, you'll have a flow from your youth to your senior team and it will be predictable what players will be good for your senior team. You don't even have to choose anymore between who you send on camp, or do you take the risk to send somebody that maybe will have a bad maxing. There is no managing anymore and this game is MANAGERzone. What I like the most on Managerzone are Youth Development and Transfering players. With this system, these two things are gone. Why ? Training youth will be easy, no choice to make anymore. You'll know exactly which player is good and which one is garbage. No surprise anymore when youth become a real star. That's the kind of things that are attractive to the game, the unexpected, now you have a youth camp that points you into the direction of what your youth player could be good at. But he still can max soon. Ok, no problem you'll have the change tool for that. Or keep him if he has good average balls or training speed to play in UXX. That's the choices you've got to make. Now you can already expect how many balls the player will reach if you understand the system. No fun at all waking up at night or in the morning to check your training report, cause you know he'll never max at 6 speed if he has a 4-star rating .. To buy little talented players on the list, to train them to become stars. That won't be possible anymore cause everyone will see the potential of the player. Everyone will know that may be a 6 speed 4 stamina 7 tackling unmaxed player who today you can buy for under 200.000 euro if you are lucky maybe less. Now that player will go high and there will be no surprise that a player becomes a star when you don't expect it. What I see is, transfers will be useless, team money? Useless, Just train your own youth's and change till you get high potential players, and you'll make a very good squad without buying, without going on the market, without trying to find a rare player who can develop, without surprises, .. The only charm this game has, you'll change it with this implementation.I don't like the system.

I've played Managezone for many years now. And this will change my pleasure to play. Managerzone is a long term game, a game where you need to choose what you want to do with your team. Do you focus on U18-Senior or do you focus on U21 or U23. Or all of them (that's really a challenge and difficult managing).

With this system, you can do all of them without even have to be a good manager. You just train youth's and if you wait 5-6 seasons, you'll have a great squad without buying anything and after a while, you'll have a flow from your youth to your senior team and it will be predictable what players will be good for your senior team. You don't even have to choose anymore between who you send on camp, or do you take the risk to send somebody that maybe will have a bad maxing. There is no managing anymore and this game is MANAGERzone.

What I like the most on Managerzone are Youth Development and Transfering players. With this system, these two things are gone. Why ?

Training youth will be easy, no choice to make anymore. You'll know exactly which player is good and which one is garbage. No surprise anymore when youth become a real star. That's the kind of things that are attractive to the game, the unexpected, now you have a youth camp that points you into the direction of what your youth player could be good at. But he still can max soon. Ok, no problem you'll have the change tool for that. Or keep him if he has good average balls or training speed to play in UXX. That's the choices you've got to make. Now you can already expect how many balls the player will reach if you understand the system. No fun at all waking up at night or in the morning to check your training report, cause you know he'll never max at 6 speed if he has a 4-star rating ..

To buy little talented players on the list, to train them to become stars. That won't be possible anymore cause everyone will see the potential of the player. Everyone will know that may be a 6 speed 4 stamina 7 tackling unmaxed player who today you can buy for under 200.000 euro if you are lucky maybe less. Now that player will go high and there will be no surprise that a player becomes a star when you don't expect it.

What I see is, transfers will be useless, team money? Useless, Just train your own youth's and change till you get high potential players, and you'll make a very good squad without buying, without going on the market, without trying to find a rare player who can develop, without surprises, ..

The only charm this game has, you'll change it with this implementation.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By bukankita (RA) - 10-05-2019 14:43

[MIC]

I couldn't agree more. This is absolutely same with my opinion

b2ooba wrote:

I don't like the system.

I've played Managezone for many years now. And this will change my pleasure to play. Managerzone is a long term game, a game where you need to choose what you want to do with your team. Do you focus on U18-Senior or do you focus on U21 or U23. Or all of them (that's really a challenge and difficult managing).

With this system, you can do all of them without even have to be a good manager. You just train youth's and if you wait 5-6 seasons, you'll have a great squad without buying anything and after a while, you'll have a flow from your youth to your senior team and it will be predictable what players will be good for your senior team. You don't even have to choose anymore between who you send on camp, or do you take the risk to send somebody that maybe will have a bad maxing. There is no managing anymore and this game is MANAGERzone.

What I like the most on Managerzone are Youth Development and Transfering players. With this system, these two things are gone. Why ?

Training youth will be easy, no choice to make anymore. You'll know exactly which player is good and which one is garbage. No surprise anymore when youth become a real star. That's the kind of things that are attractive to the game, the unexpected, now you have a youth camp that points you into the direction of what your youth player could be good at. But he still can max soon. Ok, no problem you'll have the change tool for that. Or keep him if he has good average balls or training speed to play in UXX. That's the choices you've got to make. Now you can already expect how many balls the player will reach if you understand the system. No fun at all waking up at night or in the morning to check your training report, cause you know he'll never max at 6 speed if he has a 4-star rating ..

To buy little talented players on the list, to train them to become stars. That won't be possible anymore cause everyone will see the potential of the player. Everyone will know that may be a 6 speed 4 stamina 7 tackling unmaxed player who today you can buy for under 200.000 euro if you are lucky maybe less. Now that player will go high and there will be no surprise that a player becomes a star when you don't expect it.

What I see is, transfers will be useless, team money? Useless, Just train your own youth's and change till you get high potential players, and you'll make a very good squad without buying, without going on the market, without trying to find a rare player who can develop, without surprises, ..

The only charm this game has, you'll change it with this implementation.

I couldn't agree more.

This is absolutely same with my opinion

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 10-05-2019 17:46

[FAM 21]

Perfect

b2ooba wrote:

I don't like the system.

I've played Managezone for many years now. And this will change my pleasure to play. Managerzone is a long term game, a game where you need to choose what you want to do with your team. Do you focus on U18-Senior or do you focus on U21 or U23. Or all of them (that's really a challenge and difficult managing).

With this system, you can do all of them without even have to be a good manager. You just train youth's and if you wait 5-6 seasons, you'll have a great squad without buying anything and after a while, you'll have a flow from your youth to your senior team and it will be predictable what players will be good for your senior team. You don't even have to choose anymore between who you send on camp, or do you take the risk to send somebody that maybe will have a bad maxing. There is no managing anymore and this game is MANAGERzone.

What I like the most on Managerzone are Youth Development and Transfering players. With this system, these two things are gone. Why ?

Training youth will be easy, no choice to make anymore. You'll know exactly which player is good and which one is garbage. No surprise anymore when youth become a real star. That's the kind of things that are attractive to the game, the unexpected, now you have a youth camp that points you into the direction of what your youth player could be good at. But he still can max soon. Ok, no problem you'll have the change tool for that. Or keep him if he has good average balls or training speed to play in UXX. That's the choices you've got to make. Now you can already expect how many balls the player will reach if you understand the system. No fun at all waking up at night or in the morning to check your training report, cause you know he'll never max at 6 speed if he has a 4-star rating ..

To buy little talented players on the list, to train them to become stars. That won't be possible anymore cause everyone will see the potential of the player. Everyone will know that may be a 6 speed 4 stamina 7 tackling unmaxed player who today you can buy for under 200.000 euro if you are lucky maybe less. Now that player will go high and there will be no surprise that a player becomes a star when you don't expect it.

What I see is, transfers will be useless, team money? Useless, Just train your own youth's and change till you get high potential players, and you'll make a very good squad without buying, without going on the market, without trying to find a rare player who can develop, without surprises, ..

The only charm this game has, you'll change it with this implementation.

Perfect

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By mihairo - 10-05-2019 18:36

[-FO-]

Really? Maybe that sounds boring in div. 6, but have you tried to build a team to win against a Top 20 manager? I had seven 19 year old players. None of them reached speed 7 stamina 8. I still have one who is maxed at stamina 7 who's shared if you wish to see him. I will gladly share the second one, who's Green on speed 7 stamina 6. My 18 year olds don't look better. Some of them are already maxed on speed 5 or stamina 5-6. So out of 15 players between 18 and 19 I have nothing to show for. The exact rate is one player out of 20. One out of 20 will help you as a senior player. Some of them are useful at U21 maybe U23 level, but that's it. If you don't compete at U18 level, it's easy to say why not just go to the Youth Exchange option and change a speed 5 stamina 7 or a speed 7 stamina 5 player at the age of 18 with 35 balls for a 16 year old player with 15 balls, just because that is fun or you consider it good management. Good management means growing great players, which is not really happening now. Most of them are trash or wrongly trained. I know how to train players because I am a good manager, but I have no advantage, because my players are randomly given to my squad. I can't be able to see which is good until the age of 18, and that's already too late.Really?
Maybe that sounds boring in div. 6, but have you tried to build a team to win against a Top 20 manager?
I had seven 19 year old players. None of them reached speed 7 stamina 8.
I still have one who is maxed at stamina 7 who's shared if you wish to see him. I will gladly share the second one, who's Green on speed 7 stamina 6.
My 18 year olds don't look better. Some of them are already maxed on speed 5 or stamina 5-6.
So out of 15 players between 18 and 19 I have nothing to show for.
The exact rate is one player out of 20. One out of 20 will help you as a senior player.
Some of them are useful at U21 maybe U23 level, but that's it.
If you don't compete at U18 level, it's easy to say why not just go to the Youth Exchange option and change a speed 5 stamina 7 or a speed 7 stamina 5 player at the age of 18 with 35 balls for a 16 year old player with 15 balls, just because that is fun or you consider it good management.
Good management means growing great players, which is not really happening now.
Most of them are trash or wrongly trained.
I know how to train players because I am a good manager, but I have no advantage, because my players are randomly given to my squad.
I can't be able to see which is good until the age of 18, and that's already too late.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By darkline - 10-05-2019 19:27

[FLUSA]
President

My percentile of trained players is higher than 1 in 20, I only have 1 player on my senior team that I have not trained myself and it's an Argentinian player that's retiring next season, all my senior team comes either from my youth squad or from discarded 19 y/old players that nobody wanted, so with the current system if you know how to use it to your advantage, then you can raise a team from scratch.... might be too hard or too much work to do what I do for most managers though. The problem is obvious though, apparently a normal manager in average can only train 1 player out of 20 to be worthy of his senior team, if he can train 15 out 20 with the new system, what do you think will exactly happen?My percentile of trained players is higher than 1 in 20, I only have 1 player on my senior team that I have not trained myself and it's an Argentinian player that's retiring next season, all my senior team comes either from my youth squad or from discarded 19 y/old players that nobody wanted, so with the current system if you know how to use it to your advantage, then you can raise a team from scratch.... might be too hard or too much work to do what I do for most managers though.

The problem is obvious though, apparently a normal manager in average can only train 1 player out of 20 to be worthy of his senior team, if he can train 15 out 20 with the new system, what do you think will exactly happen?

Edited: 10-05-2019 19:36
Total edits: 1

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By darkline - 10-05-2019 19:33

[FLUSA]
President

Not sure how this will end up playing out or what are the contingency plans, but if the production of good players just duplicate with the new system, if will have a ripple effect that will profoundly affect the game & the transfer market, can't imagine what could happen if we go 10x the amount of players but is just pure math. In any case, I'm sure crew will find solutions to all this concerns and will monitor the situation once the tool is released and take any corrective measures needed before it becomes an issue.Not sure how this will end up playing out or what are the contingency plans, but if the production of good players just duplicate with the new system, if will have a ripple effect that will profoundly affect the game & the transfer market, can't imagine what could happen if we go 10x the amount of players but is just pure math.

In any case, I'm sure crew will find solutions to all this concerns and will monitor the situation once the tool is released and take any corrective measures needed before it becomes an issue.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 10-05-2019 20:28

[FAM 21]

I started to play MZ in season 21. That time we had 16 youth players and only 4 TC slots. We used to need 5 or 6 youth generations to become a competitive club. Right now with 23 and 10 it's easy to end up with enough number of good players. And you still have the transfer market to find other opportunities.I started to play MZ in season 21. That time we had 16 youth players and only 4 TC slots. We used to need 5 or 6 youth generations to become a competitive club.

Right now with 23 and 10 it's easy to end up with enough number of good players. And you still have the transfer market to find other opportunities.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 10-05-2019 20:34

[FAM 21]

Not to mention youth exchange and Uxx competitions. We did not have these and the game was already very cool.

joseluiz_go wrote:

I started to play MZ in season 21. That time we had 16 youth players and only 4 TC slots. We used to need 5 or 6 youth generations to become a competitive club.

Right now with 23 and 10 it's easy to end up with enough number of good players. And you still have the transfer market to find other opportunities.

Not to mention youth exchange and Uxx competitions. We did not have these and the game was already very cool.

Ant: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By b2ooba - 10-05-2019 20:44

Exactly ! I think you’ll have to make a choice between playing Uxx .. and keep players with some max attributes or with a lot of balls .. or use the exchange everytime a player maxes soon .. it’s normal you can’t expect your 18 year old player to be good at 6-7 skills .. so he will have a potential and may be in the future he will be good if his subskills are good as well, and may be he won’t be good enough for your first team and you sell him. Either way, I think the youth system works pretty damn good at this point so no need for changing this part of the game. You have youth camps, you have youth exchange, you have youth setup (if you have completely lost generations), you have a lot of tools to have a good youth academy ! So this will ruin the game in my opinion ..Exactly !
I think you’ll have to make a choice between playing Uxx .. and keep players with some max attributes or with a lot of balls .. or use the exchange everytime a player maxes soon .. it’s normal you can’t expect your 18 year old player to be good at 6-7 skills .. so he will have a potential and may be in the future he will be good if his subskills are good as well, and may be he won’t be good enough for your first team and you sell him. Either way, I think the youth system works pretty damn good at this point so no need for changing this part of the game.

You have youth camps, you have youth exchange, you have youth setup (if you have completely lost generations), you have a lot of tools to have a good youth academy ! So this will ruin the game in my opinion ..

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By powdersnow (Crew) - 13-05-2019 13:59

[BFTF]

Not high. We're talking about only a few players in your full academy if you use all of your possible exchanges (exact numbers not decided yet). 3-star players could potentially be world class too, and part of the management skills will involve separating the poor 3-star players from the good ones. With the info in the report you will have a much better chance of doing so. I will let you know as soon as I can make a qualified guess. As many have pointed out this is a sensitive feature, so it will be handled with care. Once it is rolled out, the balance should be just right or as close as possible. It is also a feature that will affect other surrounding features in various ways, which explains why it takes time. Playing around with it on our dev environment is a lot of fun by the way. I should be able to share some screens soon. 😃

tnrtrkgl55 wrote:

@powdersnow
What will be the possibility of a 4-star player coming?

Not high. We're talking about only a few players in your full academy if you use all of your possible exchanges (exact numbers not decided yet). 3-star players could potentially be world class too, and part of the management skills will involve separating the poor 3-star players from the good ones. With the info in the report you will have a much better chance of doing so.

zargan123 wrote:

@ powdersnow

Can you tell us the certain release date for this future or are you planning to make surprise to us? =)

I will let you know as soon as I can make a qualified guess. As many have pointed out this is a sensitive feature, so it will be handled with care. Once it is rolled out, the balance should be just right or as close as possible. It is also a feature that will affect other surrounding features in various ways, which explains why it takes time.

Playing around with it on our dev environment is a lot of fun by the way. I should be able to share some screens soon. 😃

Edited: 13-05-2019 14:06
Total edits: 1

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By mihairo - 16-05-2019 09:20

[-FO-]

There is one thing I want to point out and I hope people understand. I do agree that scouting is one of the main aspects of the game and we can't have all our players as future superstars. So the superstar rate should be kept. But... I give you 2 examples, one for each sport: [fpl=208865227] [hpl=30169704] As you can see, both players chose very different skills O train. At the age of 16 they both chose to become keepers and at the age of 17 one chose to become a football midfielder and the other a hockey Winger. Now this is not normal. You must know by the age of 17 if a player is good or not. In this case it is pointless. I don't even know what to train these players next. The youth analysis will provide the necessary info. Yes, the official answer is that some players will become good seniors and some won't become players at all, but to find out if a player will be good or trash at the age of 19 is very late.There is one thing I want to point out and I hope people understand.
I do agree that scouting is one of the main aspects of the game and we can't have all our players as future superstars. So the superstar rate should be kept.
But...
I give you 2 examples, one for each sport:

Marcel Afloroaiei

Age: 37

Isac Tudoran

Age: 37

As you can see, both players chose very different skills O train.
At the age of 16 they both chose to become keepers and at the age of 17 one chose to become a football midfielder and the other a hockey Winger.
Now this is not normal. You must know by the age of 17 if a player is good or not.
In this case it is pointless. I don't even know what to train these players next.
The youth analysis will provide the necessary info.

Yes, the official answer is that some players will become good seniors and some won't become players at all, but to find out if a player will be good or trash at the age of 19 is very late.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By powdersnow (Crew) - 21-05-2019 17:13

[BFTF]

Now there is a preview video available here: https://www.facebook.com/ManagerZone/videos/463832764373342/Now there is a preview video available here:

https://www.facebook.com/ManagerZone/videos/463832764373342/

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By deleted_8536705 - 21-05-2019 17:43

[MZCN]

What is the publication date?What is the publication date?

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By engerek01 - 21-05-2019 18:54

[MZ-TR]

Thanks for sharing that. With the old YTC gone which gave us an idea about the [b]position of the player[/b], it will be a tiny bit harder to identify it. Because in the video, I did not see any indication of the best possible position for a given player except the highest and lowest skill potentials. So, when I see both [b]keeping[/b] and [b]shooting[/b] as the highest potential like happened in the video, am I supposed to gamble? YTC was a valuable tool because it gave us an idea about which position to train the player. We may need a replacement for that.

powdersnow wrote:

Now there is a preview video available here:

https://www.facebook.com/ManagerZone/videos/463832764373342/

Thanks for sharing that. With the old YTC gone which gave us an idea about the position of the player, it will be a tiny bit harder to identify it. Because in the video, I did not see any indication of the best possible position for a given player except the highest and lowest skill potentials.

So, when I see both keeping and shooting as the highest potential like happened in the video, am I supposed to gamble? YTC was a valuable tool because it gave us an idea about which position to train the player. We may need a replacement for that.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By darkline - 21-05-2019 20:05

[FLUSA]
President

Well, in the example of the video, it's a 3 star shooting/keeping player, so I would assume it's not going to make it to 10 goalkeeping and less that 10 for keepers is worthless....that combined with the fact that if has low potential for aerial balls means that the choice is straighforward, you need to train him as a striker IF you get him, but unless you're playing at U18 competitions in which the fast training speed would help, I would just discard him. To be honest, I'd discard anyone that doesn't come with 4 stars on the highest potential skills.

engerek01 wrote:

So, when I see both keeping and shooting as the highest potential like happened in the video, am I supposed to gamble?

Well, in the example of the video, it's a 3 star shooting/keeping player, so I would assume it's not going to make it to 10 goalkeeping and less that 10 for keepers is worthless....that combined with the fact that if has low potential for aerial balls means that the choice is straighforward, you need to train him as a striker IF you get him, but unless you're playing at U18 competitions in which the fast training speed would help, I would just discard him.

To be honest, I'd discard anyone that doesn't come with 4 stars on the highest potential skills.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By darkline - 21-05-2019 20:19

[FLUSA]
President

And to further elaborate, I wouldn't take any player with 3 stars on it highest potential skill because that would not only mean his chances of making it to 9 balls on his best skills are none (or maybe slim, depending on what 3 stars mean but we won't know for sure until players start to max out), but it would also mean the rest of the skills are 2 in average and maybe 3 stars if you're really lucky... so a player with 3 stars on it's highest potential skill is just guaranteed to be mediocre. So it's swap/swap/swap until you get a 4 star player on his best potential skill, then when you get your 4 star player, check the lowest skills, if it's a one/two stars stamina/speed keep swapping, if you get a striker with low control keep swapping, low air passing might also be a deal breaker.... it's really a matter of just keep swapping players until you get the top player you want.And to further elaborate, I wouldn't take any player with 3 stars on it highest potential skill because that would not only mean his chances of making it to 9 balls on his best skills are none (or maybe slim, depending on what 3 stars mean but we won't know for sure until players start to max out), but it would also mean the rest of the skills are 2 in average and maybe 3 stars if you're really lucky... so a player with 3 stars on it's highest potential skill is just guaranteed to be mediocre.

So it's swap/swap/swap until you get a 4 star player on his best potential skill, then when you get your 4 star player, check the lowest skills, if it's a one/two stars stamina/speed keep swapping, if you get a striker with low control keep swapping, low air passing might also be a deal breaker.... it's really a matter of just keep swapping players until you get the top player you want.

Ant: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By b2ooba - 21-05-2019 20:26

And that's kind of the problem right? It's managerzone and not Tinder. It's not swapping till you get something you like and may be good for you. It's training, discover talents, skills, explore

darkline wrote:

And to further elaborate, I wouldn't take any player with 3 stars on it highest potential skill because that would not only mean his chances of making it to 9 balls on his best skills are none (or maybe slim, depending on what 3 stars mean but we won't know for sure until players start to max out), but it would also mean the rest of the skills are 2 in average and maybe 3 stars if you're really lucky... so a player with 3 stars on it's highest potential skill is just guaranteed to be mediocre.

So it's swap/swap/swap until you get a 4 star player on his best potential skill, then when you get your 4 star player, check the lowest skills, if it's a one/two stars stamina/speed keep swapping, if you get a striker with low control keep swapping, low air passing might also be a deal breaker.... it's really a matter of just keep swapping players until you get the top player you want.

And that's kind of the problem right?
It's managerzone and not Tinder.
It's not swapping till you get something you like and may be good for you.

It's training, discover talents, skills, explore

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By engerek01 - 21-05-2019 21:28

[MZ-TR]

But that wasn't the point of the question. What if it shows 4 stars? What if it shows 3 stars with [b]Tackling[/b] and [b]Shooting[/b] as highest?

darkline wrote:

Well, in the example of the video, it's a 3 star shooting/keeping player, so I would assume it's not going to make it to 10 goalkeeping and less that 10 for keepers is worthless....that combined with the fact that if has low potential for aerial balls means that the choice is straighforward, you need to train him as a striker IF you get him, but unless you're playing at U18 competitions in which the fast training speed would help, I would just discard him.

To be honest, I'd discard anyone that doesn't come with 4 stars on the highest potential skills.

But that wasn't the point of the question. What if it shows 4 stars? What if it shows 3 stars with Tackling and Shooting as highest?

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 21-05-2019 21:59

[FAM 21]

Exactly. I think the new tool would work well if there was no exchange option. But the two together will ruin the game.

b2ooba wrote:

And that's kind of the problem right?
It's managerzone and not Tinder.
It's not swapping till you get something you like and may be good for you.

It's training, discover talents, skills, explore

Exactly. I think the new tool would work well if there was no exchange option. But the two together will ruin the game.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By darkline - 21-05-2019 22:22

[FLUSA]
President

Then depending on the rest of the skills the scout tells you, you decide if you want the player to be a striker or a defender because you already know his tackling and shooting are similar... it isn't too hard, poor control or heading I'd go for defender, poor long balls or passing I'd go for striker, poor Pi/Stamina/speed I'd discard him. I think it's easy as it is without having a scout tell you if you should train your guy as a striker or as a defender.

engerek01 wrote:

But that wasn't the point of the question. What if it shows 4 stars? What if it shows 3 stars with Tackling and Shooting as highest?

Then depending on the rest of the skills the scout tells you, you decide if you want the player to be a striker or a defender because you already know his tackling and shooting are similar... it isn't too hard, poor control or heading I'd go for defender, poor long balls or passing I'd go for striker, poor Pi/Stamina/speed I'd discard him. I think it's easy as it is without having a scout tell you if you should train your guy as a striker or as a defender.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By darkline - 21-05-2019 22:45

[FLUSA]
President

I have my own system to spot potential good youths and I'm happy with the results I get, the current system isn't great but it's fine for me, if you put the time & effort you get good results. I have concerns to be honest, one is that is going to take away the mystery of training youths and waiting to see if the player maxes or not, basically you'll pretty much know all that in advance and it'll be just a matter of waiting until your player trains the balls you know he'll get. Another issue is that since you won't be able to make mistakes and pass on a good prospect or take a player with poor potential, it'll be all decided by luck, if you're lucky you'll swap and get some top candidates and if you're unlucky you might find few or none. Then there's the problem of how will this affect the game long term, if too many star players are created then all teams will look very similar and the game will become very flat, but on the other hand if there isn't a significant change on how many top players are created people will start to complain that they don't get top quality players through their youth system or if the scouts are not very precise, people will also start complaining that their 4 star player maxed at 8 balls.... so personally, and that's just my own opinion as a manager on MZ, I wouldn't rush to implement this new system and would instead look for ways to improve it first.

b2ooba wrote:

And that's kind of the problem right?
It's managerzone and not Tinder.
It's not swapping till you get something you like and may be good for you.

It's training, discover talents, skills, explore

I have my own system to spot potential good youths and I'm happy with the results I get, the current system isn't great but it's fine for me, if you put the time & effort you get good results.

I have concerns to be honest, one is that is going to take away the mystery of training youths and waiting to see if the player maxes or not, basically you'll pretty much know all that in advance and it'll be just a matter of waiting until your player trains the balls you know he'll get.

Another issue is that since you won't be able to make mistakes and pass on a good prospect or take a player with poor potential, it'll be all decided by luck, if you're lucky you'll swap and get some top candidates and if you're unlucky you might find few or none.

Then there's the problem of how will this affect the game long term, if too many star players are created then all teams will look very similar and the game will become very flat, but on the other hand if there isn't a significant change on how many top players are created people will start to complain that they don't get top quality players through their youth system or if the scouts are not very precise, people will also start complaining that their 4 star player maxed at 8 balls.... so personally, and that's just my own opinion as a manager on MZ, I wouldn't rush to implement this new system and would instead look for ways to improve it first.

Ant: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By b2ooba - 21-05-2019 22:47

I agree the system isn't ready yet to be deployed.

darkline wrote:

I have my own system to spot potential good youths and I'm happy with the results I get, the current system isn't great but it's fine for me, if you put the time & effort you get good results.

I have concerns to be honest, one is that is going to take away the mystery of training youths and waiting to see if the player maxes or not, basically you'll pretty much know all that in advance and it'll be just a matter of waiting until your player trains the balls you know he'll get.

Another issue is that since you won't be able to make mistakes and pass on a good prospect or take a player with poor potential, it'll be all decided by luck, if you're lucky you'll swap and get some top candidates and if you're unlucky you might find few or none.

Then there's the problem of how will this affect the game long term, if too many star players are created then all teams will look very similar and the game will become very flat, but on the other hand if there isn't a significant change on how many top players are created people will start to complain that they don't get top quality players through their youth system or if the scouts are not very precise, people will also start complaining that their 4 star player maxed at 8 balls.... so personally, and that's just my own opinion as a manager on MZ, I wouldn't rush to implement this new system and would instead look for ways to improve it first.

I agree the system isn't ready yet to be deployed.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 22-05-2019 00:04

[FAM 21]

Agreed

darkline wrote:

I have my own system to spot potential good youths and I'm happy with the results I get, the current system isn't great but it's fine for me, if you put the time & effort you get good results.

I have concerns to be honest, one is that is going to take away the mystery of training youths and waiting to see if the player maxes or not, basically you'll pretty much know all that in advance and it'll be just a matter of waiting until your player trains the balls you know he'll get.

Another issue is that since you won't be able to make mistakes and pass on a good prospect or take a player with poor potential, it'll be all decided by luck, if you're lucky you'll swap and get some top candidates and if you're unlucky you might find few or none.

Then there's the problem of how will this affect the game long term, if too many star players are created then all teams will look very similar and the game will become very flat, but on the other hand if there isn't a significant change on how many top players are created people will start to complain that they don't get top quality players through their youth system or if the scouts are not very precise, people will also start complaining that their 4 star player maxed at 8 balls.... so personally, and that's just my own opinion as a manager on MZ, I wouldn't rush to implement this new system and would instead look for ways to improve it first.

Agreed

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By powdersnow (Crew) - 22-05-2019 09:21

[BFTF]

We will cover this in more detail later, but the short story is: with a 3 star-player, there is a good chance that one of the strengths is a 10 (and a small chance that they are both 10), whereas with 4-star players, the two 10s are very likely. I have looked over some of the national team players and many of them would have been 3-star players, while some 4-star players never make it that far (because they don't have the right strengths and weaknesses). It is all up to you of course. But the system is designed in such a way that you (if you are a serious manager) should fill up your squad with 3-star players to have the best possible chance of returns. If you keep discarding 3-star players routinely then you will be left with just a handful of 4-star players that may become elites, and you will likely have discarded the majority of the elites that would have passed through your academy. What we want to do is shift the power back to the user, rather than having an algorithm arbitrarily deciding a role for the player. Now you will have a lot to go on from the start: You will see his best and worst skills, you see his starting skills, you see the stars. That info should be enough to go on when trying to find a role for your player. If you find a player with no discernible role (such as the keeper-striker in the video), maybe that player should not take up a place in your squad. There will be plenty of exploration still to be done. :) The new scout report is just an indication, it is not the full truth. There will be some instances where you will know the future potential of a certain attribute, but they will be quite rare. And why shouldn't you swap until you find something you like? This gives managers better chance to form their academy in a way that they want. I think there will be different schools on this... there will be the endless swappers who can never make up their mind and get very few graduates (but those few may be really good) and others who may stick to their guns more and get a higher amount of graduates. These are all choices that you'll need to make as a manager going forward. There wont be one true answer, different managers will act in different ways. I have covered these aspects in previous posts in this thread, so I won't do it again. But no, I don't think the players will start to become more similar. It is the opposite, managers will start to develop more different types of players now that niche players are basically de-risked. And there is still plenty of mystery, we have put a lot of thought into the design (and the underlying calculation of the stars) to make sure those aspects are still there.

darkline wrote:

Well, in the example of the video, it's a 3 star shooting/keeping player, so I would assume it's not going to make it to 10 goalkeeping and less that 10 for keepers is worthless....that combined with the fact that if has low potential for aerial balls means that the choice is straighforward, you need to train him as a striker IF you get him, but unless you're playing at U18 competitions in which the fast training speed would help, I would just discard him.

To be honest, I'd discard anyone that doesn't come with 4 stars on the highest potential skills.

We will cover this in more detail later, but the short story is: with a 3 star-player, there is a good chance that one of the strengths is a 10 (and a small chance that they are both 10), whereas with 4-star players, the two 10s are very likely. I have looked over some of the national team players and many of them would have been 3-star players, while some 4-star players never make it that far (because they don't have the right strengths and weaknesses).

It is all up to you of course. But the system is designed in such a way that you (if you are a serious manager) should fill up your squad with 3-star players to have the best possible chance of returns. If you keep discarding 3-star players routinely then you will be left with just a handful of 4-star players that may become elites, and you will likely have discarded the majority of the elites that would have passed through your academy.

engerek01 wrote:

Thanks for sharing that. With the old YTC gone which gave us an idea about the position of the player, it will be a tiny bit harder to identify it. Because in the video, I did not see any indication of the best possible position for a given player except the highest and lowest skill potentials.

So, when I see both keeping and shooting as the highest potential like happened in the video, am I supposed to gamble? YTC was a valuable tool because it gave us an idea about which position to train the player. We may need a replacement for that.

What we want to do is shift the power back to the user, rather than having an algorithm arbitrarily deciding a role for the player. Now you will have a lot to go on from the start: You will see his best and worst skills, you see his starting skills, you see the stars. That info should be enough to go on when trying to find a role for your player. If you find a player with no discernible role (such as the keeper-striker in the video), maybe that player should not take up a place in your squad.

b2ooba wrote:

And that's kind of the problem right?
It's managerzone and not Tinder.
It's not swapping till you get something you like and may be good for you.

It's training, discover talents, skills, explore

There will be plenty of exploration still to be done. :) The new scout report is just an indication, it is not the full truth. There will be some instances where you will know the future potential of a certain attribute, but they will be quite rare. And why shouldn't you swap until you find something you like? This gives managers better chance to form their academy in a way that they want. I think there will be different schools on this... there will be the endless swappers who can never make up their mind and get very few graduates (but those few may be really good) and others who may stick to their guns more and get a higher amount of graduates.

These are all choices that you'll need to make as a manager going forward. There wont be one true answer, different managers will act in different ways.

darkline wrote:

I have my own system to spot potential good youths and I'm happy with the results I get, the current system isn't great but it's fine for me, if you put the time & effort you get good results.

I have concerns to be honest, one is that is going to take away the mystery of training youths and waiting to see if the player maxes or not, basically you'll pretty much know all that in advance and it'll be just a matter of waiting until your player trains the balls you know he'll get.

Another issue is that since you won't be able to make mistakes and pass on a good prospect or take a player with poor potential, it'll be all decided by luck, if you're lucky you'll swap and get some top candidates and if you're unlucky you might find few or none.

Then there's the problem of how will this affect the game long term, if too many star players are created then all teams will look very similar and the game will become very flat, but on the other hand if there isn't a significant change on how many top players are created people will start to complain that they don't get top quality players through their youth system or if the scouts are not very precise, people will also start complaining that their 4 star player maxed at 8 balls.... so personally, and that's just my own opinion as a manager on MZ, I wouldn't rush to implement this new system and would instead look for ways to improve it first.

I have covered these aspects in previous posts in this thread, so I won't do it again. But no, I don't think the players will start to become more similar. It is the opposite, managers will start to develop more different types of players now that niche players are basically de-risked.

And there is still plenty of mystery, we have put a lot of thought into the design (and the underlying calculation of the stars) to make sure those aspects are still there.

Edited: 22-05-2019 13:20
Total edits: 1

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By deleted_8536705 - 22-05-2019 10:46

[MZCN]

@Powdersnow For example; [fpl=207710447] is this player 3 stars or 4 stars?@Powdersnow

For example;

Fadıl Şen

Age: 43

is this player 3 stars or 4 stars?

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By powdersnow (Crew) - 22-05-2019 12:41

[BFTF]

Well I don't know all the maxings but looks likely to be a 3-star player. Good player but not absolute top class.Well I don't know all the maxings but looks likely to be a 3-star player. Good player but not absolute top class.

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By engerek01 - 22-05-2019 13:22

[MZ-TR]

I've been thinking about it and I am inclined to say that this is actually for the better. The problem with the old system was that the "arbitrary algorithm" at the YTC did not always match the users' personal preferences. With this out of the way, users will have to decide themselves. This also opens a lot of room for people like me who write guides and programs for the community. This will also return the mystery that the new system might take away. For example, if the Analysis give 4 stars for stamina and intelligence, this player can practically play in anywhere. User will have to take risks and/or use his/her personal preferences to determine in which direction to train. I don't do transfer in both sports, only use players from my own academy. This makes me even more excited with the new feature.

powdersnow wrote:

What we want to do is shift the power back to the user, rather than having an algorithm arbitrarily deciding a role for the player. Now you will have a lot to go on from the start: You will see his best and worst skills, you see his starting skills, you see the stars. That info should be enough to go on when trying to find a role for your player. If you find a player with no discernible role (such as the keeper-striker in the video), maybe that player should not take up a place in your squad.

I've been thinking about it and I am inclined to say that this is actually for the better.

The problem with the old system was that the "arbitrary algorithm" at the YTC did not always match the users' personal preferences. With this out of the way, users will have to decide themselves. This also opens a lot of room for people like me who write guides and programs for the community.

This will also return the mystery that the new system might take away. For example, if the Analysis give 4 stars for stamina and intelligence, this player can practically play in anywhere. User will have to take risks and/or use his/her personal preferences to determine in which direction to train.

I don't do transfer in both sports, only use players from my own academy. This makes me even more excited with the new feature.

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By engerek01 - 22-05-2019 13:47

[MZ-TR]

BTW, I want to open a topic in the Turkish forum to share the information and gather feedback. Is that OK?BTW, I want to open a topic in the Turkish forum to share the information and gather feedback. Is that OK?

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By powdersnow (Crew) - 22-05-2019 15:03

[BFTF]

Of course :) Edit: and yeah I agree with you on the current scout, it is better than nothing but only just. The new one will be [b]MILES[/b] better, and give each manager the chance to add his or her particular understanding of the game (or personal taste) to the mix.Of course :)

Edit: and yeah I agree with you on the current scout, it is better than nothing but only just. The new one will be MILES better, and give each manager the chance to add his or her particular understanding of the game (or personal taste) to the mix.

Edited: 22-05-2019 15:13
Total edits: 1

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By engerek01 - 22-05-2019 19:34

[MZ-TR]

A question that came which was also in my mind for some time. How will that work for the youths that come at the start of the season? From the first post it says [i]"The Analysis would follow the player throughout his career (even as a senior). It would be visible on the player market and when a player is sold, the Analysis would go along with the player. "[/i] From that I assume there will be a button on the player card that will show that anytime we want. Is that assumption correct?A question that came which was also in my mind for some time.

How will that work for the youths that come at the start of the season? From the first post it says

"The Analysis would follow the player throughout his career (even as a senior). It would be visible on the player market and when a player is sold, the Analysis would go along with the player. "

From that I assume there will be a button on the player card that will show that anytime we want. Is that assumption correct?

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By powdersnow (Crew) - 22-05-2019 22:24

[BFTF]

Yes, that is correct!Yes, that is correct!

Sv: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By panboy - 22-05-2019 23:16

[LEGEND]

I think the design and how it will work in a single player perspective is all excellent, well done! My worry is still that there will be too many very good players coming out on the market while teams are filling up with very good players from their own academies. Meaning the transferprices will drop big time, team money won't be nearly as important, and a team in division 3 may get stuck in division 3 even though they are as good as the top division teams, due to all the teams in the top three divisions are great teams full of very good players.I think the design and how it will work in a single player perspective is all excellent, well done! My worry is still that there will be too many very good players coming out on the market while teams are filling up with very good players from their own academies. Meaning the transferprices will drop big time, team money won't be nearly as important, and a team in division 3 may get stuck in division 3 even though they are as good as the top division teams, due to all the teams in the top three divisions are great teams full of very good players.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By mihairo - 23-05-2019 05:18

[-FO-]

MZ is an endurance game, based on long term planning. This new feature will allow us to make our Academy the Academy we want. People say that the players will look the same, but I think it will be the opposite. Every user is unique and he will train his youths as he sees fit. Every user has different ideas on how his club should look like, from selling youths to make millions to growing teams with patience from the Academy. With this new feature, every user can finally enjoy being a scouter as well. You can build good U18 teams or you can swap endlessly until you find only 4 star players. I wouldn't worry so much about people getting stuck in div. 3, because that won't really happen. You can't have a superteam every season. Many managers sell their teams when they reach the age of 29-30. I'm guessing this new feature will somehow change the clubs strategies as well, also on long term. So I'm looking forward to it.MZ is an endurance game, based on long term planning.
This new feature will allow us to make our Academy the Academy we want.
People say that the players will look the same, but I think it will be the opposite. Every user is unique and he will train his youths as he sees fit.
Every user has different ideas on how his club should look like, from selling youths to make millions to growing teams with patience from the Academy.
With this new feature, every user can finally enjoy being a scouter as well. You can build good U18 teams or you can swap endlessly until you find only 4 star players.
I wouldn't worry so much about people getting stuck in div. 3, because that won't really happen. You can't have a superteam every season.
Many managers sell their teams when they reach the age of 29-30. I'm guessing this new feature will somehow change the clubs strategies as well, also on long term.
So I'm looking forward to it.

Ce: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By engerek01 - 23-05-2019 16:28

[MZ-TR]

In order to avoid lots of amazing players, I have a recommendation for skill maxings. Skill ----> Maxing chance 4 ----> 5% 5 ----> 10% 6 ----> 20% 7 ----> 30% 8 ----> 20% 9 ----> 10% 10----> 5% I don't know the current system but my database say that the percentages are very similar. It is like [b]MAXCAP = 3 + RND(7)[/b] function which gives around 14% chance to each skill. My suggestion cripples that, increasing the chance in the belly and decreasing the chances on the edges.In order to avoid lots of amazing players, I have a recommendation for skill maxings.
Skill ----> Maxing chance
4 ----> 5%
5 ----> 10%
6 ----> 20%
7 ----> 30%
8 ----> 20%
9 ----> 10%
10----> 5%

I don't know the current system but my database say that the percentages are very similar. It is like MAXCAP = 3 + RND(7) function which gives around 14% chance to each skill. My suggestion cripples that, increasing the chance in the belly and decreasing the chances on the edges.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By darkline - 23-05-2019 16:51

[FLUSA]
President

As I see it, all "solutions" will create new problems, if you creates less top players than now people will be furious, if it's about the same people will be upset and disappointed and if loads of elite players are created, it will flatten the game and people instead of complaining about training, will complain about how the game has been ruined or how their now "top team" losses against "lesser teams" (forgetting of course that "lesser teams" will also have "top players") The best alternative is to try to keep a balance on the output of top players that is equal to what you can get today, but to do that, since scouting will be easier and more precise, you have to lower the probabilities of getting a "top player" as you have to take into consideration that with the current system, a lot of "top players" are poorly trained or discarded due to lack of good scouting..... so basically, try to figure out what percentile of top players are discarded and lower the probabilities of getting a top player by that percentile to compensate, that is the more sensible solution that shouldn't alter the balance of the game, but of course, it won't please the guys that think that every player they graduate has to be a star....

engerek01 wrote:

In order to avoid lots of amazing players, I have a recommendation for skill maxings.

As I see it, all "solutions" will create new problems, if you creates less top players than now people will be furious, if it's about the same people will be upset and disappointed and if loads of elite players are created, it will flatten the game and people instead of complaining about training, will complain about how the game has been ruined or how their now "top team" losses against "lesser teams" (forgetting of course that "lesser teams" will also have "top players")

The best alternative is to try to keep a balance on the output of top players that is equal to what you can get today, but to do that, since scouting will be easier and more precise, you have to lower the probabilities of getting a "top player" as you have to take into consideration that with the current system, a lot of "top players" are poorly trained or discarded due to lack of good scouting..... so basically, try to figure out what percentile of top players are discarded and lower the probabilities of getting a top player by that percentile to compensate, that is the more sensible solution that shouldn't alter the balance of the game, but of course, it won't please the guys that think that every player they graduate has to be a star....

Sv: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By panboy - 23-05-2019 19:27

[LEGEND]

Right now managers save up money to then have a great team for a few seasons. It is impossible to have great time continuously because the top players cost too much and team money will eventually run out. When this new thing settles many seasons from now, more teams will start playing to win as it will be easier and cheaper to maintain a great team. Of course mz needs more managers and More teams in the fight for top division titles to make more money and grow. Perhaps there should be more teams in the leagues, like 20? More teams in every division means more teams closer to the top. As for the players I suggest 15 as new highest skill level but anything over 10 will be very rare.Right now managers save up money to then have a great team for a few seasons. It is impossible to have great time continuously because the top players cost too much and team money will eventually run out. When this new thing settles many seasons from now, more teams will start playing to win as it will be easier and cheaper to maintain a great team.
Of course mz needs more managers and More teams in the fight for top division titles to make more money and grow. Perhaps there should be more teams in the leagues, like 20? More teams in every division means more teams closer to the top. As for the players I suggest 15 as new highest skill level but anything over 10 will be very rare.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By mayunga - 23-05-2019 20:25

[World]

To be honest, all I'm hearing from everyone is doubt. I trust that this new feature will keep the competitiveness of the game high as well as personal development from each manager's point of view very important. As many keep mentioning, this game is all about long term development right? With any long term development, you want to make sure you have many things in control in order for your vision to come to pass. Youth Academy is THE biggest thing managers look at now because of the prices of elite players. So giving managers a little bit more control on HOW the academy looks - is imperative. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT BECAUSE A PLAYER HAS 4-STAR IN SHOOTING AND SPEED AND TRAINING SPEED OF 4 THAT HE'S GOING TO BE AN AMAZING STRIKER. Because his Play Intelligence could be a 2 star, ball control a 1 star and he could max stamina at 5. It's the risk you take. But with the information, you can feel a little bit more in control of what you THINK will happen with the player. The way it's been set out is enough information to feel like you're making an ACADEMY MANAGER'S decision, just like in real life. I'm opposed with all the nay-sayers because this feature is fantastic. Now - what's the update on this being released @powdersnow?To be honest, all I'm hearing from everyone is doubt. I trust that this new feature will keep the competitiveness of the game high as well as personal development from each manager's point of view very important.

As many keep mentioning, this game is all about long term development right? With any long term development, you want to make sure you have many things in control in order for your vision to come to pass.

Youth Academy is THE biggest thing managers look at now because of the prices of elite players. So giving managers a little bit more control on HOW the academy looks - is imperative.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT BECAUSE A PLAYER HAS 4-STAR IN SHOOTING AND SPEED AND TRAINING SPEED OF 4 THAT HE'S GOING TO BE AN AMAZING STRIKER.
Because his Play Intelligence could be a 2 star, ball control a 1 star and he could max stamina at 5. It's the risk you take. But with the information, you can feel a little bit more in control of what you THINK will happen with the player.

The way it's been set out is enough information to feel like you're making an ACADEMY MANAGER'S decision, just like in real life. I'm opposed with all the nay-sayers because this feature is fantastic.

Now - what's the update on this being released @powdersnow?

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By darkline - 23-05-2019 20:33

[FLUSA]
President

Just saying... it is possible to do many things that managers don't even try to do because they just assume it's impossible. For example, my team has no foreigners & all my players are homegrown and come either from my academy or guys that I bought from between $1 to $100K when they where 19 y/old.... and my finances just keep growing year after year, I'm at $33M but I don't have much use for the money really as I don't use the market other than for getting cheap players no one wants.... Started this a while ago just to prove a point, people always complains that they don't have a market, that they need more and more foreigners and that all the youth are crap, etc. etc...... well, it is harder to play without all those extra benefits that make the game easier and bring instant success if you have the money, but I like a challenge and like to put work into improving my team.

panboy wrote:

Right now managers save up money to then have a great team for a few seasons. It is impossible to have great time continuously because the top players cost too much and team money will eventually run out.

Just saying... it is possible to do many things that managers don't even try to do because they just assume it's impossible.

For example, my team has no foreigners & all my players are homegrown and come either from my academy or guys that I bought from between $1 to $100K when they where 19 y/old.... and my finances just keep growing year after year, I'm at $33M but I don't have much use for the money really as I don't use the market other than for getting cheap players no one wants....

Started this a while ago just to prove a point, people always complains that they don't have a market, that they need more and more foreigners and that all the youth are crap, etc. etc...... well, it is harder to play without all those extra benefits that make the game easier and bring instant success if you have the money, but I like a challenge and like to put work into improving my team.

Re: Youth Potential Analysis - version 3

By joseluiz_go - 23-05-2019 21:08

[FAM 21]

I think it's hard to keep on top because the game does not give you incentives to stay on top. Prize money should be adjusted to compensate for the fact that big teams pay a lot in salaries. I do not think this tool will help in this aspect, but it will be easier to build a great team without having to go to the market (which is not necessarily a good thing, in my opinion)

panboy wrote:

Right now managers save up money to then have a great team for a few seasons. It is impossible to have great time continuously because the top players cost too much and team money will eventually run out. When this new thing settles many seasons from now, more teams will start playing to win as it will be easier and cheaper to maintain a great team.

I think it's hard to keep on top because the game does not give you incentives to stay on top. Prize money should be adjusted to compensate for the fact that big teams pay a lot in salaries. I do not think this tool will help in this aspect, but it will be easier to build a great team without having to go to the market (which is not necessarily a good thing, in my opinion)

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