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28-03-2024 14:35
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Season 89 · Week 13 · Day 87
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Money

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I've heard alot about how there is an abundance of cash in the game but frankly for teams trying to bridge the gap to the long standing managers. This is simply not true. Sponsor money in div 2 is appalling.

I'm currently at a 72k loss pee week trying to bring players on to use or sell. Hence bridge the gap to all the established teams with 60 man squads. I dont pay for the game apart from the monthly thing. Dont spend more tokens.

I don't see how you expect new managers to bridge that gap and be able to afford week in and week out expenses. I'm 936k minus on expenses each season. I'll get some of this back from end of season awards if I play 18 friendlies. But still makes me 500k short. So I need to sell players or sacrifice my account. Which will keep the gap as is.

So how does anyone expect managers like myself able to bridge that gap and compete. Its practically impossible.
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Re: Money

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[204]
President
There is a lot of money in World League, Youth Leagues and cups. I can see you're just playing League and cups. You're losing out on a lot of money.

Re: Money

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You have to pay (buy tokens and join in World Leagues, Official Cups, Youth Legues, Friendlies Leagues, etc...) to make money!

Re: Money

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[204]
President
That is true, but it's not much.

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Thats my point though. Some of this is starting to become pay to win. I'm not prepared to pay for world and youth league.

Can someone quantify how much money is in the world and youth league per week? Not including prize money. Because 99.9% of teams will get nowhere near the prize money. So the top stays at the top.

Re: Money

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Another way to make money is with young players and sell when they maximaze (speed, stamina and tackling or shooting, 4 example). You can sell them for lot of money!
You need to be patient!

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I understand that but you have to fund having youths. You have to pay for promising ones or get lucky through you own academy. I've spent nearly a million alone on youth players as a reserve squad to train. Hence why I'm minus 72k per week. These players are not world class and maybe jusy maybe 1 or 2 may become so and I can sell for 1m plus and fund my training.

However it goes back to my original point. I'm operating on a loss to attempt to bridge the gap.

Re: Money

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k33n3y wrote:
I understand that but you have to fund having youths. You have to pay for promising ones or get lucky through you own academy. I've spent nearly a million alone on youth players as a reserve squad to train. Hence why I'm minus 72k per week. These players are not world class and maybe jusy maybe 1 or 2 may become so and I can sell for 1m plus and fund my training.

However it goes back to my original point. I'm operating on a loss to attempt to bridge the gap.


You have 9 coaches. Most of them 4/5 stars. Total salary $181,786 Hire coaches with 5 stars (class E) It's better to have low level coaches then none! You will save a lot of money!

You have lots of 19 to 23 players. Sell a bunch of them to make some K

Remember, it's not about to make money only. You need to manage your club the best way you can! I think yoy're spending too much

Re: Money

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[204]
President
Never hire 5 star coaches, they are NOT worh it. Keep it at 2/3 starts for youth-coaches and 3/4 for seniors.

Re: Money

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dudale wrote:
You have 9 coaches. Most of them 4/5 stars. Total salary $181,786 Hire coaches with 5 stars (class E) It's better to have low level coaches then none! You will save a lot of money!

You have lots of 19 to 23 players. Sell a bunch of them to make some K

Remember, it's not about to make money only. You need to manage your club the best way you can! I think yoy're spending too much


My Bad.
You have class a/b coaches (9 /10 balls)
Hire class E with 5 balls

Re: Money

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I have 1 class a coach who I will let go and not replace. That's fair.

However I do not get sufficient gains with the low ball coaches. For instance I have a 24 yo. Mid with 7 balls in BC. With a low level 5 ball BC coach. He gets 1/2 bars of training. With a lvl 8/9 he's getting 4. So it's warranted in some cases.

Re: Money

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Again. Coaches are required to train these players to sufficient levels and bridge the gap.

I understand I'm attempting a lot at once. But something has to give. It's going to be a struggle for me to break even each season.

Perhaps if I can somehow make it to div 1. My income attendances and sponsor income will increase greatly but I doubt this.

Re: Money

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Class E coaches do not give the gains required. I've did the calculations with number of segments trained as opposed to lower level coaches. Level E coaches almost give no gain to normal training.

Re: Money

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OkšŸ˜Ž

Re: Money

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You obviously think differently but the data isnt showing that.

Re: Money

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The long standing guys have probably also made retired players coaches to save money also. So it's a case of the richer get richer type scenario. Do you not think?

Re: Money

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Income difference for me and you in Ā£
0k - 40k | World Leagues
0k - 40k | Youth Leagues
16k - 24k | Cup Games
36k - 42k | Friendlies
135k - 175k | Sponsor and League Games
Total
187k - 321k

Expenses difference for me and you in Ā£
175k - 238k | Salaries
38k - 57k | Coaches
21k - 22k | Stadium upkeep
25k - 25k | Youths
Total
259k - 342k

Loses we make per week
72k - 21k

You have little lower cup incomes as you dont take part in youth/world tour cups currently hence you getting little less cup income. Just participating in Youth and World Leagues would increase your income close to zero. I haven't converted a single coach just looked for cheapest ones with 4 stars and 1 skill being 9 balls. Even if you got to the Premier League your Friendly, Series match and Sponsor income would increase for about 50k~. This is my 17th season in MZ after I came back from a long break. I built my team from youths only. I used Custom Youth Setup to get balanced youth distribution from the start to make things bit quicker. It took me 3 to 4 seasons to establish working U23 team. It took me 7 seasons to reach Finnish Premier League on the 8th season I dropped back to Div1. After that I promoted back to the Premier League instantly and have been regular ever since in the 5th to 2nd place not winning the championship yet. Last season after playing 16 seasons of MZ after my comeback I managed to get 16th in Senior Defenders Cup so getting some results in international tournaments aswell. That all happened in 4 years time. What im trying to say there is no shortcuts to success without having great balance before hand. When I came back to MZ my team had 10Mā‚¬ that I haven't touched to this day. My current balance is 13Mā‚¬. Not to say that I could have buyed my way to the point im at now. With 10Mā‚¬ you get nothing.

Consider starting to play World and Youth Leagues and sell everything except the players in the age of 22 or younger. You have decent starting point saving those players if they are any worth to even keep I don't know haven't seen those. But looking at your transfer market activity I would say they are not worth to even keep if you got them for free. You are just paying salaries for the players that nobody else didn't want. So do like I did when I restarted the game and sell everything and start building from your current youths season by season. Your balance starts to look better quickly and then you can make a purchases that actually are worth something. With the extra money you make don't buy 10 players only 1 with actual potential. Senior competition ofc gets very boring while you are establishing your U23 team as you are also playing with those young players at senior competitions. That was actualy the reason I started to play Youth Leagues and World Leagues so I had some competition going for my team while I was building my teams foundations from nothing.

My current U23 squad has 21 players that has 3 players from the transfer market everything else is my own youth production. In over age of 23 I have 8 bought players but most of them were bought in their 20's and they have been bought in different times not at the same time.

Imo you should never buy players that has no value. Now you might have reserve squad but you have no potential to product over there. They are just players with no actual value that eats your salary money every week. If you are not making results with your current seniors they might not be worth keeping.

TL:DR / Tips
Sell or fire everything and start building your team slowly up from your current 18 yo players. Selling them will get you some money and you start making 100k per week instead of running useless players negative.

Players you bought as your U23 squad are not worth any more than they were when you bought them even if you train them.

You just tried to skip the necessary seasons to actually build your team from ground up by buying players with no worth.

After you have built your U23 foundation with actual potential you start to see some results in senior level aswell.

To keep the game interesting while you are building your team start playing World and Youth Leagues.

Always have a good reason to buy player from the market / always have a reason to keep the player.

It took me 1 year to get working U23, 2 years to get to Premier League, 4 years to get international "success". You don't get working team over night.

Even for me this text is kind a confusing when im trying to read it. Hope it makes anysense.

Re: Money

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Really appreciate the input. I think I may be trying to do too much at once.

My reserve squad are players im training. So they can be future starters or selling players.

So thats gives me 30 senior players.

I'm not too interested in world or youth leagues right now. My goal is the premier league. Im just worried without paying for world league and youth league it's maybe not possible through my method?

I'll re read your comments and see if I can amend my plan.

Re: Money

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Just noticed abour the mid season tour money. I knew the end of season tour gave a lump sum. So with that and the mid season friendlies money. I can break even for a few seasons.

This way I can pay for my coaches and train the 19-22year(U23 squad essentially) in my reserve squad.

I still seem to be miles off the long standing managers and I suppose they've played the game long enough for some reward.

These rewards are having teams able to compete at highest level, most sponsor income from top division. Retired players becoming coaches etc.

So it seems I don't have to pay more real money to compete in world and youth leagues for now. I may in the future. But Tuesdays, thursday and Saturdays are already manic due to all the free cups from being a club member.

Re: Money

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This is simple. Cut down on your youth academy and fire your coaches until you turn a profit. Good thing is when you're firing players and coaches you know how much your weekly loss is being reduced by. Then pay attention to building your stadium and facilities (you can use any stadium calculator for that) to the right amount for your league so you can maximize your income. Adjust by increasing accordingly when your attendance approaches 98% for any seating tier.

About youth development. The odds are not in your favour in my opinion and investment should be kept at the barest minimum. The romanticized notion of discovering a world class player after world class player from your academy will drain your team of valuable cash that should buy you a capable first team. You'll be lucky if you find a national team standard player from your academy in 2 years even with coaches and massive spending on TCs and a max youth squad.

Save money and buy world class talent from the market.

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Negative much? I wont be doing that. My stadium and facilities are already in a great position.

Re: Money

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[MAS]
President
I can understand your frustration since you're not joining any world league or youth league. Perhaps you can choose between senior or youth. That way, you can maximise your money. As for my case, I totally abandoned my youth with 13 youth only and I just leave them as they are and just focus on my senior team. Now, I got millions on my bank, I mean team money of course.

Re: Money

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I do believe that one simply cannot look at the economics as a weekly income-expense calculation. I have about 60 players and have not perfected my economic situation, but I still make money each season. I develop players and sell them at a higher cost. If you count salaries and training camp into that equation you will be able to have a more realistic view on how economics in this game work. If you buy a player you should be able to make a profit or at least break even when you take time into account.
You don't need a backup squad. You need a clear economic or field-based goal for each of your players. If they aren't making you win trophies they better be making you money. If not, get rid of them. Fast.

Most teams that have 60 players play every single one of them each season. They don't just take up space.
They have a purpose

Re: Money

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So to train players you HAVE to take part in u18 and u23 and pay for world league and youth league. Otherwise play with the bare minimum squad.

How do you expect a new manager to bridge the gap. Buy amazing players at cheap prizes and compete in tournaments and cups. Your suggestion is so out of touch its actually scary.

Re: Money

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k33n3y wrote:
So to train players you HAVE to take part in u18 and u23 and pay for world league and youth league. Otherwise play with the bare minimum squad.

How do you expect a new manager to bridge the gap. Buy amazing players at cheap prizes and compete in tournaments and cups. Your suggestion is so out of touch its actually scary.


Who even said that?
The bridge is actually a quite simple one. Time. It requires patience. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there is an easy way to get money in this game. It just takes a bit of time and patience. Now that's quite realistic if I may say so myself

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[204]
President
coachie wrote:
Who even said that?
The bridge is actually a quite simple one. Time. It requires patience. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there is an easy way to get money in this game. It just takes a bit of time and patience. Now that's quite realistic if I may say so myself


How many millions do you have on hand now?šŸ˜œ

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disinocht wrote:
How many millions do you have on hand now?šŸ˜œ


Not that much actually! About 15mill ā‚¬. Some people have several hundred. I just enjoy throwing money away to much šŸ˜…

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coachie wrote:
Not that much actually! About 15mill ā‚¬. Some people have several hundred. I just enjoy throwing money away to much šŸ˜…


487 526 EUR Your Current Balance
379 029 EUR Your Projected Weekly Expenses

ale się gra dalej ;)

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aimarinho79 wrote:
487 526 EUR Your Current Balance
379 029 EUR Your Projected Weekly Expenses

ale się gra dalej ;)


You have 16 players for your senior squad and 16 for your U21-squad. Your U21-squad is bought quite cheap and you can probably sell some 21yo next season and make a profit from them. You can then invest that money into new 19yo players and at that point, piłka się toczy(google translate)

That is how I made my first 100 millions back in 2019 at least. Since then I have spent more money and earned less šŸ˜…

Re: Money

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We shouldn't have to spend years building bank balances. I'm not saying it should be easy.

We also shouldn't have to pay for world or youth league to make finances work.

My comment was more so saying there isn't money in the game for newer managers who are trying to bridge the gap.

The current mechanism makes it very long winded to bridge imo.

Anyways its meh. I'm not sure the old school get it as you're all dinosaurs haha. Jokes but seriously it's tough.

Re: Money

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k33n3y wrote:
We shouldn't have to spend years building bank balances. I'm not saying it should be easy.

We also shouldn't have to pay for world or youth league to make finances work.

My comment was more so saying there isn't money in the game for newer managers who are trying to bridge the gap.

The current mechanism makes it very long winded to bridge imo.

Anyways its meh. I'm not sure the old school get it as you're all dinosaurs haha. Jokes but seriously it's tough.


How would you bridge the gap without it just beeing inflation?

It is possible to have success the first few seasons, but itā€™s not realistic to think one would be world class in that short amount of time. It is also possible to gris your balanse exponentially the first few seasons. Iā€™m actually quite glad you canā€™t have both at once. My point is that you can make money short term and you can gain success short term. Both Are possible. I believe it should take time to become the best. Time is actually more valuable than real money and Thatā€™s great. Otherwise this game would be kinda dull.

Itā€™s quite funny that a 3,5yo team is old school šŸ˜…

Re: Money

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I was more so thinking about the possibility to have a first team and reserve team with a youth team. I can just about manage it. So time will tell but its a fine balance.

I've had as much as 2m but decided I wanted to get to div 1 and then prem. Prem is a long way away. Div 1 is still quite far off.

Perhaps I want too much

Re: Money

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[204]
President
k33n3y wrote:
I was more so thinking about the possibility to have a first team and reserve team with a youth team. I can just about manage it. So time will tell but its a fine balance.

I've had as much as 2m but decided I wanted to get to div 1 and then prem. Prem is a long way away. Div 1 is still quite far off.

Perhaps I want too much


You donā€™t want too much, you just want it too fast! Having a full senior squad is expensive, and often limits you to just that.

Currently I compete in the top flight in Norway with a tram Iā€™ve spent over 500 days developing. During this time Iā€™ve managed to stay positive income due to beeing strict on whoā€™s got potential and are worth their salary and how can I reduce expenses. Any players below par are sold to generate income and reduce expenses.

Creating a solid squad without solid spending takes time.

Re: Money

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I've decided on selling two squad players that would require too long training to reach their full potential. I'd probably only sell them for what I pay in salaries over 3-5 seasons. Its the salaries where I think it gets you.

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You can renegotiate with your coaches when they get to 14 days. Sometimes that can bring about some savings and look to reduce your wages, don't have too many players. But yes I agree, it is much more difficult when you are not playing the additional leagues for their income.

Re: Money

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k33n3y wrote:
Negative much? I wont be doing that. My stadium and facilities are already in a great position.


Negative no. Practical and common sense yes. If you're not willing to take hard decisions to make money, at least in the short term you can always switch it up later when you have millions, then keep doing what you're doing and stop bitching on the forums about not making money.

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coachie wrote:
I do believe that one simply cannot look at the economics as a weekly income-expense calculation. I have about 60 players and have not perfected my economic situation, but I still make money each season. I develop players and sell them at a higher cost. If you count salaries and training camp into that equation you will be able to have a more realistic view on how economics in this game work. If you buy a player you should be able to make a profit or at least break even when you take time into account.
You don't need a backup squad. You need a clear economic or field-based goal for each of your players. If they aren't making you win trophies they better be making you money. If not, get rid of them. Fast.

Most teams that have 60 players play every single one of them each season. They don't just take up space.
They have a purpose


Real world maths doesn't change into something else when you apply it to this game. It is definitely about income and expenses and making sure you're ahead at least every two weeks especially when you're not paying for world leagues. Relying on selling youth players at a profit is just gambling. If it happens fine but consistently sell youths at a profit taking into consideration their salaries and tc money is next to impossible in this market. Austerity measures are the way to go lol

Re: Money

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k33n3y wrote:
We shouldn't have to spend years building bank balances. I'm not saying it should be easy.

We also shouldn't have to pay for world or youth league to make finances work.

My comment was more so saying there isn't money in the game for newer managers who are trying to bridge the gap.

The current mechanism makes it very long winded to bridge imo.

Anyways its meh. I'm not sure the old school get it as you're all dinosaurs haha. Jokes but seriously it's tough.


Until the pay to play model is changed this is how it's going to be so learn to adapt. Our competitor throws money at you from all directions with players having no ceilings, no limit on foreign players(which hasn't lead to weaker national teams btw) etc but MZ is stubbornly MZ for some reason and is not willing to copy or outright steal concepts that work from other games to make this product more superior. All FANG companies steal ideas to become the best in the field and become global phenoms. Gaming has grown exponentially over the past 20 years and you would think that a lot more modern features without even touching the core simulator would have been introduced right now. The potential MZ has is insane but the developers don't see it that way and are just happy with the status quo. Is MZ for example planning for the metaverse and VR in general?

Re: Money

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I agree it has huge potential with things.

I do need to stop sulking or bitching as you put it lol.

I'll stop being a noob and try and adapt. It may involve me paying for world league tbf.

Re: Money

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killerbeeez wrote:
Real world maths doesn't change into something else when you apply it to this game. It is definitely about income and expenses and making sure you're ahead at least every two weeks especially when you're not paying for world leagues. Relying on selling youth players at a profit is just gambling. If it happens fine but consistently sell youths at a profit taking into consideration their salaries and tc money is next to impossible in this market. Austerity measures are the way to go lol


Oh, I didn't say the same rules doesn't apply. In the real world you don't like at the finances on a week to week basis. You look at it long term. If you aren't making a profit over a span of 4-5 weeks it doesn't matter. But if you aren't making money each season then your loosing the financial game.

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[204]
President
coachie wrote:
Oh, I didn't say the same rules doesn't apply. In the real world you don't like at the finances on a week to week basis. You look at it long term. If you aren't making a profit over a span of 4-5 weeks it doesn't matter. But if you aren't making money each season then your loosing the financial game.


Also in the real world, it's impressive if your club is NOT in debt!

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disinocht wrote:
Also in the real world, it's impressive if your club is NOT in debt!


Real sports is just like expensive marketing

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disinocht wrote:
Also in the real world, it's impressive if your club is NOT in debt!


You miss my point. I was referring to just plain math and accounting principles not debt and debt restructuring. We both know you can't run a club in MZ whiles in debt.

Just because you receive 1.5millionusd in board bonuses a season doesn't mean you should be reckless with your spending with a ballooning wage bill building too many facilities that are never filled to capacity etc. Play the financial game and you can end up with an extra 1-1,5million just from stadium and facilities income which isn't chicken change if you ask me.

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[204]
President
killerbeeez wrote:


I havenā€™t read what you wrote sorry, was just adding something to coachieā€™s post.

IRL, itā€™s long term and all major football teams are in debt.

Ant: Money

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i have read some really strange things in this topic imo...

I came back last year after 5 years of neglecting my team, but basic economics still make it possible to bridge the gap:

- allways take maximum of 23 youthplayers. This will only cost less then 500.000 ā‚¬ (36.800 x 13) each season. You will easily get 500.000 every season for the 7/8 graduating players becoming senior that season. Give them (free) trainingcamps each season offcourse. Be wise with your youth exchange

- take coaches. But take your time to get them. After a daily search you will have all B-coaches (even with 9 balls) for less then 5000 ā‚¬, with their lowest possible loan on 2700 - 3300 ā‚¬. But it takes time!

- don't aim to be in your topleague within 5 seasons. Otherwise: don't aim for div1 at all, but if you aim, aim at the topleague. Just look at your players as individuals and try to make profit out of each of them until you think you have or can buy a decent team that will be able to promote and compete season after season. Just don't look at the results the first few seasons. Promotion is fine, relegation doesn't matter untill your team is good enough and you really want to make it to the top.

- don't look at your finances as if it is a 'cost'. Your weekly expenses should be an 'investment'. Train youths and buy players only if you expect more profit in the future. Aim for the cheap 19-year old players on the market in the beginning of the season.
7 out of 10 will turn out to be crap, but if you bought them cheap it doens't matter. 2 out of 10 will turn out decent to make things break even. And hope for 1 out of 10 with some nice unmaxings that you can sell with extra value. Take salary, TC-costs and taxes into account.
In the money-making stadium just sell allmost every player after 70 days or 1 season.


In belgium we have a nice example that it is possible to bridge the gap. User thendric started in august 2018, and became champion in Eerste Klasse in April 2021 i think. It was within 1000 days anyway. Take into account Belgiums eerste klasse-teams really did well winning several official cups these days. (He had a promising team that could go on some more seasons but he decided to sell out and restart a U21/U23 team.)

Re: Money

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You don't have 7-8 players every year, because of the exchanges. I have 2 players this year and next season I will have 3 (actually, one of them is maxed and I should exchange or discard at graduation.. I'm not sure how it is better).
I really doubt it that you can make 500k from 19 years old player, every year. Ok, maybe you can, but, most of the managers can't. Some people win at lottery, but not every player.
This season I was very fortunate; I earned 94k euro from 19 years old. Last season, zero; and, 0 is the usual income from young graduates. Most of the players worth nothing.. Without new joiners to spend money on useless players.. it is tough. Without that tour money, I will be in bankruptcy, or play with only youths; which is not that fun.

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[204]
President
romanasu wrote:
You don't have 7-8 players every year, because of the exchanges. I have 2 players this year and next season I will have 3 (actually, one of them is maxed and I should exchange or discard at graduation.. I'm not sure how it is better).
I really doubt it that you can make 500k from 19 years old player, every year. Ok, maybe you can, but, most of the managers can't. Some people win at lottery, but not every player.
This season I was very fortunate; I earned 94k euro from 19 years old. Last season, zero; and, 0 is the usual income from young graduates. Most of the players worth nothing.. Without new joiners to spend money on useless players.. it is tough. Without that tour money, I will be in bankruptcy, or play with only youths; which is not that fun.


500k from 19-year-olds should is easy, but of course, the nationality has something to say. An average 19YO player in Lithuania is going to be worth less than one from Argentina.

Just looking through my transfer history I can see players I've sold (I've never cared about juniors, so they are all underdeveloped) seven players for about ā‚¬6,2m, plus plenty of others down the line. You can still sell players with a bad maxing for hundereds of thousands.

An alternative way to play the game is to only compete in U18 tournaments. Everyone is competing with the same premise and low expenses.

Money should not be an issue if managed with smartness and caution.

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Its definitely not easy. 500k each season is completely unrealistic.

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k33n3y wrote:
Its definitely not easy. 500k each season is completely unrealistic.


It's definitely not unrealistic. I know many people that get 500k or even more money each season. Selling at the right time helps as well.

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Sorry I'll correct. It's totally unrealistic to expect newer managers to expect 500k sales per season imo.

Maybe very long term after experience in the game etc. However that aside you still won't get anywhere near prize money for many seasons.

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k33n3y wrote:
Sorry I'll correct. It's totally unrealistic to expect newer managers to expect 500k sales per season imo.

Maybe very long term after experience in the game etc. However that aside you still won't get anywhere near prize money for many seasons.


Iā€™m curious, how long is very long term?
 
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