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Scout games

By numchacar - 08-03-2021 07:34

Now I scouted someone I had to play in an important game for me 3 times and all 3 times I got 10 - 0 wins. When game day come I lost 5-0 nothing had changed in the tactic they had or anything. Why are people paying 2 credits to scout a game of an opponent and getting fake results out of it?Now I scouted someone I had to play in an important game for me 3 times and all 3 times I got 10 - 0 wins. When game day come I lost 5-0 nothing had changed in the tactic they had or anything.

Why are people paying 2 credits to scout a game of an opponent and getting fake results out of it?

 

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Re: Scout games

By chucky06 - 10-03-2021 14:42

[AUSNZ]
President

I’ve said this before and heard other managers talk of similar suggestions/findings. I think scout matches run basically on a different simulator hence why the very mixed and a lot of the time wrong results. What I mean by this is let’s say Play Intel and Experience are considered amplifiers and in a League or Cup they amplify players stats by 20% but in scout matches this amplifier is only 5%. That would be a big difference in performance and results and a team with low PI in general or experience wouldn’t be effected much and vis-versa if your team was high in those attributes. This isn’t a proven theory or anything like that but there must be something fundamentally different in scout matches than league/cup games to get such vastly different results.I’ve said this before and heard other managers talk of similar suggestions/findings. I think scout matches run basically on a different simulator hence why the very mixed and a lot of the time wrong results.

What I mean by this is let’s say Play Intel and Experience are considered amplifiers and in a League or Cup they amplify players stats by 20% but in scout matches this amplifier is only 5%. That would be a big difference in performance and results and a team with low PI in general or experience wouldn’t be effected much and vis-versa if your team was high in those attributes.

This isn’t a proven theory or anything like that but there must be something fundamentally different in scout matches than league/cup games to get such vastly different results.

Re: Scout games

By numchacar - 10-03-2021 23:48

Unsure why they would have it in the game and have it cost 2 tokens if it's not the same sim

chucky06 wrote:

I’ve said this before and heard other managers talk of similar suggestions/findings. I think scout matches run basically on a different simulator hence why the very mixed and a lot of the time wrong results.

What I mean by this is let’s say Play Intel and Experience are considered amplifiers and in a League or Cup they amplify players stats by 20% but in scout matches this amplifier is only 5%. That would be a big difference in performance and results and a team with low PI in general or experience wouldn’t be effected much and vis-versa if your team was high in those attributes.

This isn’t a proven theory or anything like that but there must be something fundamentally different in scout matches than league/cup games to get such vastly different results.

Unsure why they would have it in the game and have it cost 2 tokens if it's not the same sim

Re: Scout games

By webregas - 11-03-2021 23:36

[ENG]

I still use scout matches but have exactly the same issue. Agree with @chucky’s theory - pretty sure experience is one of the key factors with a lower weighting. Rational for that is I run my team on a cycle and the older they get the more reliable I’ve found scout games. When exp is factored out my results look more favourable with a younger side than my opposition but come game day all those senior pros turn up and ruin my plans!I still use scout matches but have exactly the same issue.

Agree with @chucky’s theory - pretty sure experience is one of the key factors with a lower weighting.

Rational for that is I run my team on a cycle and the older they get the more reliable I’ve found scout games. When exp is factored out my results look more favourable with a younger side than my opposition but come game day all those senior pros turn up and ruin my plans!

Re: Scout games

By darkline - 12-03-2021 10:34

[FLUSA]
President

Was this your U23 Cup game? https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1207288031&tid=139824 Are you sure you selected your U23 tactic and not your senior tactic when you played the scout matches? Because that U23 absolutely destroyed you and I just can't see you winning 10-0 against him.

numchacar wrote:

Now I scouted someone I had to play in an important game for me 3 times and all 3 times I got 10 - 0 wins. When game day come I lost 5-0 nothing had changed in the tactic they had or anything.

Why are people paying 2 credits to scout a game of an opponent and getting fake results out of it?

Was this your U23 Cup game?

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1207288031&tid=139824

Are you sure you selected your U23 tactic and not your senior tactic when you played the scout matches? Because that U23 absolutely destroyed you and I just can't see you winning 10-0 against him.

Re: Scout games

By numchacar - 12-03-2021 13:08

No it was for u18s mate I only do u18sNo it was for u18s mate I only do u18s

darkline wrote:

Was this your U23 Cup game?

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1207288031&tid=139824

Are you sure you selected your U23 tactic and not your senior tactic when you played the scout matches? Because that U23 absolutely destroyed you and I just can't see you winning 10-0 against him.

Re: Scout games

By darkline - 12-03-2021 14:21

[FLUSA]
President

But there's no way a U18 team can beat a U23 team and sure not by a margin of 10-0, maybe you challenged his U18 squad instead of his U23 squad?But there's no way a U18 team can beat a U23 team and sure not by a margin of 10-0, maybe you challenged his U18 squad instead of his U23 squad?

Re: Scout games

By darkline - 12-03-2021 14:23

[FLUSA]
President

Could you post a screen capture of the scout games?Could you post a screen capture of the scout games?

Re: Scout games

By fantastic2 - 12-03-2021 14:38

Yes, it is another simulator, it is good only to observe the performance of the players.

chucky06 wrote:

I’ve said this before and heard other managers talk of similar suggestions/findings. I think scout matches run basically on a different simulator hence why the very mixed and a lot of the time wrong results.

What I mean by this is let’s say Play Intel and Experience are considered amplifiers and in a League or Cup they amplify players stats by 20% but in scout matches this amplifier is only 5%. That would be a big difference in performance and results and a team with low PI in general or experience wouldn’t be effected much and vis-versa if your team was high in those attributes.

This isn’t a proven theory or anything like that but there must be something fundamentally different in scout matches than league/cup games to get such vastly different results.

Yes, it is another simulator, it is good only to observe the performance of the players.

Re: Scout games

By numchacar - 13-03-2021 01:40

I did not play a u23 it was for u18's!

darkline wrote:

But there's no way a U18 team can beat a U23 team and sure not by a margin of 10-0, maybe you challenged his U18 squad instead of his U23 squad?

I did not play a u23 it was for u18's!

Re: Scout games

By darkline - 13-03-2021 12:04

[FLUSA]
President

Is not another SIM :) , in any case, I have figured out the SIM inconsistencies & why people gets different results on scouts, etc. , I'll write all about it when I find some time. No worries mate, I'm just trying to figure out something, you mentioned you lost 5-0 and the only recent game I could see that you lost by that margin was a U23 game

fantastic2 wrote:

Yes, it is another simulator, it is good only to observe the performance of the players.

Is not another SIM :) , in any case, I have figured out the SIM inconsistencies & why people gets different results on scouts, etc. , I'll write all about it when I find some time.

numchacar wrote:

I did not play a u23 it was for u18's!

No worries mate, I'm just trying to figure out something, you mentioned you lost 5-0 and the only recent game I could see that you lost by that margin was a U23 game

Re: Scout games

By evosa - 14-03-2021 12:59

[LEGEND]

It would be quite interesting to see what you’ll write. Since I also have some theories, but I also do not have time to write, then I’ll just write short version of [b][u]my thoughts[/u][/b], so it would be interesting to see how much it differences from your points. Very long story to short, I belive that when tactics lock, than sim takes some extra parameters into account when calculating match results. Key parameters are: [b]Player skills(including form and experience) and tactics[/b] are two obious ones. [b] Player in game performace [/b] parameter – easiest explanation to that is, when player shoots on goal, and gets a goal with a first shot, than with next shot he has bigger chance of scoring than with first one. And it works like that with all other stats(tackling, passing, saving etc.) [b] User activity [/b] – thanks to thunderexpress, who now confirmed in admin forum that when user is not active than those teams will get activity penalty and therefore results will suffer. This was a bit doubt for me, as I didn’t know either if it was drop in form or unactivity. [b] Competition parameter [/b] – in some cups especially I can notice that teams that are favorites to win it, perform quite badly and when that usually happens, than those teams usually do not win the competition, so at some point of the cup, they’ll get a simmed result like this one here: Semi final result between Kutsikad and Minerva: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1207046032 Cup link here: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=private_cup&sub=info&cid=298734 I have been observing this now for years, and I have been on the opposite side many times, despite being clear favorite to win certain competitions. [b] Random factor [/b] – this will determine how well the whole team generally plays, sometimes when two pretty equal teams meet, than for some reasons, sometimes one team is able to destroy another. We all have bad days, just like in real life, sometimes when two teams meet, than one is able to destroy another, but not tactic wisely, but more of a because one team just is unable to play at their best. Also some examples from MZ: U21 euros 2021 https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1205788450 To monitor this more, I talked with Portuguese coach and asked him to set up same tactics and same players: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1208005072 Since this one had a red card, than we set up another match(which is not played yet): https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1208082903 There are some other(smaller) factors too like for example if 1 good, experienced defender, and another one who is decent, but lacks experience, than does he play better because there is experienced defender around him? So basically in scout games some of those factors are either completely ignored, or randomized, whenever a outcome of the game is determined.

darkline wrote:

Is not another SIM :) , in any case, I have figured out the SIM inconsistencies & why people gets different results on scouts, etc. , I'll write all about it when I find some time.

It would be quite interesting to see what you’ll write. Since I also have some theories, but I also do not have time to write, then I’ll just write short version of my thoughts, so it would be interesting to see how much it differences from your points.

Very long story to short, I belive that when tactics lock, than sim takes some extra parameters into account when calculating match results. Key parameters are:
Player skills(including form and experience) and tactics are two obious ones.

Player in game performace parameter – easiest explanation to that is, when player shoots on goal, and gets a goal with a first shot, than with next shot he has bigger chance of scoring than with first one. And it works like that with all other stats(tackling, passing, saving etc.)

User activity – thanks to thunderexpress, who now confirmed in admin forum that when user is not active than those teams will get activity penalty and therefore results will suffer. This was a bit doubt for me, as I didn’t know either if it was drop in form or unactivity.

Competition parameter – in some cups especially I can notice that teams that are favorites to win it, perform quite badly and when that usually happens, than those teams usually do not win the competition, so at some point of the cup, they’ll get a simmed result like this one here:
Semi final result between Kutsikad and Minerva:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1207046032
Cup link here:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=private_cup&sub=info&cid=298734

I have been observing this now for years, and I have been on the opposite side many times, despite being clear favorite to win certain competitions.

Random factor – this will determine how well the whole team generally plays, sometimes when two pretty equal teams meet, than for some reasons, sometimes one team is able to destroy another. We all have bad days, just like in real life, sometimes when two teams meet, than one is able to destroy another, but not tactic wisely, but more of a because one team just is unable to play at their best.

Also some examples from MZ:
U21 euros 2021
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1205788450
To monitor this more, I talked with Portuguese coach and asked him to set up same tactics and same players:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1208005072
Since this one had a red card, than we set up another match(which is not played yet):
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1208082903

There are some other(smaller) factors too like for example if 1 good, experienced defender, and another one who is decent, but lacks experience, than does he play better because there is experienced defender around him?

So basically in scout games some of those factors are either completely ignored, or randomized, whenever a outcome of the game is determined.

 

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