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19-01-2021 18:21
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Season 77 · Week 3 · Day 15
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Football » English » ManagerZone talk

The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[AUS]
President
Anybody get lucky with their loyal players? Mine are maxed in everything like usual and will go in the bin by the end of the week before finances.

Ian Devere

Age: 23


Rudolph Kile

Age: 23

Edited: 01-10-2020 09:34
Total edits: 1
Views: 413 Posts: 39
 
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Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[FLUSA]
President
I don't get lucky, I get smart and take the money 😀

Seriously, I took the loyals a few times in the beginning and never got one worth keeping, the only one I ever kept was an ok winger but after training him and paying salaries for two seasons, I realized it might have been good to sell on the market if I could sell him but it was never going to be good for my team, so had to fire him.

I think the chances of getting a top loyal player are 1 in 200 and even if you get a good player you can't sell him, so you'll have to train him for at least 4/5 seasons so he can gain experience and the necessary skills for your senior team.

Best thing to do IMO is get the money and if you have your mind set on training a player, get a 4HP/2HP from the market or even better, get two good 3HP/2HP with a nice scout repoort, in the end they're going to be a much better investment and if they don't turn up as you hope they will, you can always recover some money by selling them.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[AUS]
President
darkline wrote:
I don't get lucky, I get smart and take the money 😀

Seriously, I took the loyals a few times in the beginning and never got one worth keeping, the only one I ever kept was an ok winger but after training him and paying salaries for two seasons, I realized it might have been good to sell on the market if I could sell him but it was never going to be good for my team, so had to fire him.

I think the chances of getting a top loyal player are 1 in 200 and even if you get a good player you can't sell him, so you'll have to train him for at least 4/5 seasons so he can gain experience and the necessary skills for your senior team.

Best thing to do IMO is get the money and if you have your mind set on training a player, get a 4HP/2HP from the market or even better, get two good 3HP/2HP with a nice scout repoort, in the end they're going to be a much better investment and if they don't turn up as you hope they will, you can always recover some money by selling them.


100% agree- I only got loyal players this time as I’m rebuilding and my current team are all 21 so it just made sense to take a gamble one last time 😂

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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for an established team, the way youth training works at the moment, makes picking loyal players obsolete...

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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That's why you don't take them if you are looking for short term gain. Always see the big picture and play the long term averages. As every now and then you'll get one could become useful like this guy. I'll give him a Stamina, Tackling & AP camp to see if his stamina can reach 10 & his tackling can reach 9-10. Looks like a slow trainer, but that's okay.

Richard Ridding

Age: 23

SpeedSpSpeed: 8(8)
StaminaStStamina: 9(9)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 2(2)
PassingPaPassing: 8(8)
ShootingShShooting: 1(1)
HeadingHeHeading: 1(1)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 3(3)
TacklingTaTackling: 7(7)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 4(4)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 0(0)
ExperienceExExperience: 5(5)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    44

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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If he can get to at least a 9 in tackling I'll keep him and work on his BC & AP, then put him in PI.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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In hockey I got this guy, I sent him straight to TC

Russel Greenan

Age: 23

FormFoForm: 7(7)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 3(3)
PowerPwPower: 10(10)
SkatingSkSkating: 6(6)
PassingPaPassing: 3(3)
QuicknessQuQuickness: 5(5)
ShootingShShooting: 5(5)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Puck ControlPCPuck Control: 1(1)
CheckingChChecking: 3(3)
StaminaStStamina: 10(10)
Total Skill Pucks    47


The key is not getting discouraged when you have a few seasons in a row of nothing, because over time you will get players you can use.

I will say though, that my success rate with getting loyal players is much higher in hockey. It must have something to do with getting 3 players as opposed to footballs 2. With the spawn rate of good players being a bit higher because you need more players to form a team.

But as my football loyal player also show, you can get players with potential in football.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[B&IFF]
President
I got 2 useless players with crippling maxings!

Thought I would give the loyal players one more go...

Think I’ll stick to cash next time.

Uuesti: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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http://mzplayer.se/?id=1001110202

What do you guys think about this guy?

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[AUS]
President
goodfellas wrote:
http://mzplayer.se/?id=1001110202

What do you guys think about this guy?


Wow! That’s what my loyal player dreams are of! I’ve never had anything 20% as good

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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I dont take loyals anymore, a few times I took them they was very bad. So, money is money right? haha. I prefer to buy some projects 19/20 years because I have never seen a good loyal

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[AUS]
President
gonzocabj7 wrote:
I dont take loyals anymore, a few times I took them they was very bad. So, money is money right? haha. I prefer to buy some projects 19/20 years because I have never seen a good loyal


Easier buying projects from a country like Argentina with a huge base, harder in smaller countries with foreign player limits if you want a competitive starting 11 too.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[FLUSA]
President
scruttino wrote:
That's why you don't take them if you are looking for short term gain. Always see the big picture and play the long term averages. As every now and then you'll get one could become useful like this guy. I'll give him a Stamina, Tackling & AP camp to see if his stamina can reach 10 & his tackling can reach 9-10. Looks like a slow trainer, but that's okay.

Richard Ridding

Age: 23

SpeedSpSpeed: 8(8)
StaminaStStamina: 9(9)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 2(2)
PassingPaPassing: 8(8)
ShootingShShooting: 1(1)
HeadingHeHeading: 1(1)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 3(3)
TacklingTaTackling: 7(7)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 4(4)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 0(0)
ExperienceExExperience: 5(5)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    44


Honestly I still think it's bad bussiness, for example this unmaxed player two years younger and with just one ball less than yours, was sold yesterday in the USA market for $184.000 USD



I rather use the money to buy two players like this than get a loyal player like yours, the advantage of your loyal player is that he has guaranteed 9/9 speed/stamina but that's it, he can't be sold and due to total balls, the 19 y/old from the market has more potential.... what I mean is, the 19 y/old is a gamble, but I rather take this gamble than gambling first on getting a decent loyal player, then gamble his training speed will be good and then gambling that after expending money in camps, he'll be good enough to eventually start on my team...

Anyway, that's just my opinion, I understand that people might want to gamble on loyal players hoping to get lucky and get a player like the one posted by goodfellas, I mean... it can happen, but I don't like my odds so I always take the money and run.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[FLUSA]
President
chucky06 wrote:
Easier buying projects from a country like Argentina with a huge base, harder in smaller countries with foreign player limits if you want a competitive starting 11 too.


Yes, unless you're running only a Uxx that's also true

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[AUS]
President
darkline wrote:
Honestly I still think it's bad bussiness, for example this unmaxed player two years younger and with just one ball less than yours, was sold yesterday in the USA market for $184.000 USD



I rather use the money to buy two players like this than get a loyal player like yours, the advantage of your loyal player is that he has guaranteed 9/9 speed/stamina but that's it, he can't be sold and due to total balls, the 19 y/old from the market has more potential.... what I mean is, the 19 y/old is a gamble, but I rather take this gamble than gambling first on getting a decent loyal player, then gamble his training speed will be good and then gambling that after expending money in camps, he'll be good enough to eventually start on my team...

Anyway, that's just my opinion, I understand that people might want to gamble on loyal players hoping to get lucky and get a player like the one posted by goodfellas, I mean... it can happen, but I don't like my odds so I always take the money and run.


I definitely agree buying a player with less risk is a better strategy. At the end of last season I invested 50 million AUD into an U21 team (they were all 20 at the time) On 3 players with bad maxings I’ve probably lost 10 million already. I don’t care for U21 either but I had the hope to have a competitive U23 team eventually so getting them ASAP was my theory and moulding them and upgrading position by position was my strategy. The hindsight is, the players I bought then I could buy now at 21, cheaper, have more information available to me with more maxing exposed. I should have just run youths for a season and taken the profits. Not all loss though as some of my players have probably gone up in value and I haven’t been bored with the game for this whole season :p

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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To be honest, playing the market doesn't have a lot of appeal to me, to the point where I'd rather have a mediocre home grown squad and not play the market than put the effort into it. We all enjoy different things. I'm also playing in a country where we have the maximum number of loyal players allowed in our NT squad.

I did the calculations, based on the salaries of my players it works out 50,000 AUD cheaper to take the loyal players than to train a player up as a youth, BEFORE factoring in TC costs. So there's that going in favour of it. (Obviously you can sell a disloyal player, which is probably a much bigger positive)

My general attitude towards them is that if they are best XI right now then they are probably worth keeping around. I've never had a loyal player so good you can build a squad around, but I've had plenty that projected as first XI for at least 4 seasons or so.

Uuesti: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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chucky06 wrote:
Wow! That’s what my loyal player dreams are of! I’ve never had anything 20% as good


Yeah I feel super lucky as he is my first loyal player I can keep in football.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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I thought a maybe this time I get something "nice" at least "fair" but not :D Just wasted my 300k :( both football and hockey, nightmare !

Ailill McTommy

Age: 23

SpeedSpSpeed: 7(7)
StaminaStStamina: 7(7)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 8(8)
PassingPaPassing: 3(3)
ShootingShShooting: 1(1)
HeadingHeHeading: 3(3)
KeepingKeKeeping: 0(0)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 6(6)
TacklingTaTackling: 8(8)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 6(6)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 2(2)
ExperienceExExperience: 6(6)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    51


Donlevy McWillie

Age: 23

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[B&IFF]
President
Davie Ronald

Age: 23



Willie Scott

Age: 23

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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What I would like to know is: What happened to the LOF rewards?

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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darkline wrote:
he can't be sold


I’m good with that. If they are good enough, I want them to play for as long as they can and retire at my club. Then I’ll put them to use as a coach.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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goodfellas wrote:
http://mzplayer.se/?id=1001110202

What do you guys think about this guy?


A wonderful player, a legend!

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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I chose the loyal ones and already regretted it

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[FLUSA]
President
scruttino wrote:
I’m good with that. If they are good enough, I want them to play for as long as they can and retire at my club. Then I’ll put them to use as a coach.


I understand that, the problem is when you realize the player isn't good enough after expending money on 3/4 TCs and you can't even try to recover your loses because you can't sell the player.

Take for example the loyal you just received, he has 1 Pi, 1 BC, 3 AP, now you train him and after 3/4 seasons training him he ends up with 10 tackling and maxes at 5 Pi, 5 bc, 5 AP.... is that's good enough for your team then I guess there's no problem, but if those skills are not then you're stuck with the player as you can't sell him and you either play him anyway or fire him taking the losses.

That's kind of the situation I had with the only loyal player I ever kept (for a while), he was unmaxed and had a decent amount of balls so I decided to train him, first I gave Speed/Stamina/Tackling, he got 10/10 on SP/ST but maxed at 8TA, by that time he already had 7 Aerial Passing so I trained his AP/PI, he went to get 10 AP and PI was still unmaxed so I was super happy.... until I trained his control and he maxed at 5 , a winger with 5 control isn't good enough for me, I had already expent money in 3 camps and I couldn't sell him, I kept him for a while longer as a sub winger, he was still training Pi so I though maybe if he reached 9/10 he could be a decent sub even with 5 control but he ended up maxing at 7 Pi so I did the only thing I could, cut my losses and fire him.

After that I learned my lesson, maybe I'd think different if I had more luck with loyal players but they're not for me.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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darkline wrote:
I understand that, the problem is when you realize the player isn't good enough after expending money on 3/4 TCs and you can't even try to recover your loses because you can't sell the player.

Take for example the loyal you just received, he has 1 Pi, 1 BC, 3 AP, now you train him and after 3/4 seasons training him he ends up with 10 tackling and maxes at 5 Pi, 5 bc, 5 AP.... is that's good enough for your team then I guess there's no problem, but if those skills are not then you're stuck with the player as you can't sell him and you either play him anyway or fire him taking the losses.

That's kind of the situation I had with the only loyal player I ever kept (for a while), he was unmaxed and had a decent amount of balls so I decided to train him, first I gave Speed/Stamina/Tackling, he got 10/10 on SP/ST but maxed at 8TA, by that time he already had 7 Aerial Passing so I trained his AP/PI, he went to get 10 AP and PI was still unmaxed so I was super happy.... until I trained his control and he maxed at 5 , a winger with 5 control isn't good enough for me, I had already expent money in 3 camps and I couldn't sell him, I kept him for a while longer as a sub winger, he was still training Pi so I though maybe if he reached 9/10 he could be a decent sub even with 5 control but he ended up maxing at 7 Pi so I did the only thing I could, cut my losses and fire him.

After that I learned my lesson, maybe I'd think different if I had more luck with loyal players but they're not for me.


I think you’re over complicating things. If he maxes out I’ll sack him, and move on, no hard feelings. If you play hockey as well, your more than welcome to look at all the loyal players I’ve kept over the years. Some very good players in there.

Also, the transfer market in Australia is dead. I always list any player I sell for $1, unless they have serious talent, most sell for less than $10,000.

Usually I just bin my players though.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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I understand there has to be a variance of quality of player, but its absolutely ridiculous some of the players that are generated for other teams.

Both my loyal players were already maxed in crucial skills that would have seen them released the day they turned senior if they were youths.

All we ask for is a player with some potential.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[FLUSA]
President
scruttino wrote:
If you play hockey as well, your more than welcome to look at all the loyal players I’ve kept over the years. Some very good players in there


I was talking about football, I'm not playing hockey atm but in hockey it make sense, you get more loyals, there's no experience so you can use the player sooner and all you need to do is maxout power to know quickly if the player has potential or it'll be a waste of time. I did play hockey and I did keep a few loyals on my team...

Ant: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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First of all, I might be biased because of luck (?), but I've seen a lot of Belgian teams with at least one really good loyal player. Check some of the teams in Eerste klasse: North Hill United, Apricis Bruxella, Cacahuetes (2 national players!), The Original Wonderteam. All have some great-to-insane loyal players. And that's only a few teams.

These are my loyals currently in my team:
http://mzplayer.se/?id=1001161440

No real monsters, but still some really decent players. 5 of them are in my first team. (in division 1)

In my opinion the potential with loyals is a lot bigger than 300K.

My examples are no exceptions, it's just a lot of managers consistently picking the loyals every single time.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[B&IFF]
President
Well the randomness is really not working for me! I’ve had about 12 loyal players and all were useless!

TBH you have 4 players I would not be keeping.
7 speed or 7 stamina is useless against decent teams.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[FLUSA]
President
brian_mcsnail wrote:
Well the randomness is really not working for me! I’ve had about 12 loyal players and all were useless!

TBH you have 4 players I would not be keeping.
7 speed or 7 stamina is useless against decent teams.


I wouldn't say useless, I used a few 7 speed players on the midfield or as a striker with wings tactics and I used 7 stamina strikers as subs, but this is because they're top players that deteriorated, when I'm training players first thing I do is find their stamina/speed maxing and if it's 7 or below I discard the player.
Edited: 03-10-2020 15:29
Total edits: 1

Ant: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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brian_mcsnail wrote:
Well the randomness is really not working for me! I’ve had about 12 loyal players and all were useless!

TBH you have 4 players I would not be keeping.
7 speed or 7 stamina is useless against decent teams.


I disagree.
I finished top 16 in the generations cup and top 32 in the defenders cup just a few weeks ago, using this guy as my main striker. I have beaten plenty decent teams.

I only restarted playing mz from scratch in 2019, so loyal players were a big help in building a basis.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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Ive kept a few over time, and one other is about to be sacked, but these are my best loyals.

With that said I take the money. Players I can't control aren't useful unless they are really top players.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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Whoops. http://mzplayer.se/?id=1006201878

Uuesti: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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Mostly get rubbish but also 1 good in football and 1 good in hockey.
Paavo Kelm

Age: 26

SpeedSpSpeed: 9(9)
StaminaStStamina: 9(9)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 4(4)
PassingPaPassing: 3(3)
ShootingShShooting: 9(9)
HeadingHeHeading: 2(2)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Ball ControlBCBall Control: 9(9)
TacklingTaTackling: 8(8)
Aerial PassingAPAerial Passing: 5(5)
Set PlaysSPSet Plays: 0(0)
ExperienceExExperience: 7(7)
FormFoForm: 9(9)
Total Skill Balls    59
Mihkel Eelmäe

Age: 30

FormFoForm: 9(9)
Play IntelligencePIPlay Intelligence: 8(8)
PowerPwPower: 10(10)
SkatingSkSkating: 10(10)
PassingPaPassing: 8(8)
QuicknessQuQuickness: 5(5)
ShootingShShooting: 8(8)
KeepingKeKeeping: 1(1)
Puck ControlPCPuck Control: 7(7)
CheckingChChecking: 8(8)
StaminaStStamina: 8(8)
Total Skill Pucks    73

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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I stopped choosing loyal players a long time ago.
With that money i can buy a player.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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i selected loyal players for the first time in a long time at the last opportunity and got this guy. Not amazing, but certainly not bad and may come in handy in a pinch, certainly ok for the u23's. For the record i also have a squad of bought players training away for either the future or for profits.
Everitt Mcneven

Age: 23

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[AUS]
President
grinner wrote:
i selected loyal players for the first time in a long time at the last opportunity and got this guy. Not amazing, but certainly not bad and may come in handy in a pinch, certainly ok for the u23's. For the record i also have a squad of bought players training away for either the future or for profits.
Everitt Mcneven

Age: 23



He’s not bad but the 6 stamina really hurts. Can really only play one half a game.

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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Kinda surprised hes not in the nt given how many 6 and 7 stam players are in there.lol

Like i said hes a decent backup, and could make the bench if i decide to sell 1 or 2 real players

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[AUS]
President
grinner wrote:
Kinda surprised hes not in the nt given how many 6 and 7 stam players are in there.lol

Like i said hes a decent backup, and could make the bench if i decide to sell 1 or 2 real players


The Aussie national team is currently a retirement home 😂

Re: The more Loyals the more disappointment

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[FLUSA]
President
chucky06 wrote:
The Aussie national team is currently a retirement home 😂


Well, the USA is half my team and I have to pick them up at the retirement home with a van to bring them to the games
 
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