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22-01-2021 03:55
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Season 77 · Week 3 · Day 18
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The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I noticed since I returned to this game that too many things have not changed since i left in the sense that this game is too much pay to play and I was thinking what is the horizon of a new player who does not pay money to be a member, practically has no future in the game since he only plays two official matches a week it may seem to me but I see that the MZ community is declining because old users are retiring and nothing comes from behind and I think this game should be refreshed by organizing free competitions u18, u21, u23 for all users periodically
and apart from that maybe other things can be done but I don't see the MZ staff to worry about that
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Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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People have suggested for a while that National Cups should be free for all and that everyone should be able to enter

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[AUS]
President
The reality is crew don’t make any money of users who aren’t paying to play. There needs to be incentives for people to be a member or buying power tokens to keep the game profitable.

You’re right, changes are few and far between though and the game hasn’t evolved as it should have

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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nothing lives forever, enjoy while it lasts.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[FLUSA]
President
The Turritopsis Doohmii more commonly as the immortal jellyfish does 😁

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[MZUSA]
President
There is advertising revenue coming in from the non Club members. Don't know how it relates to what Club members are paying, but it's something.

I would agree though, that the bulk of the money coming in is probably from folks buying tokens for things, whether or not they are Club members.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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Advertising revenue only if you click the ads.

The game has had its moment and technical advances in gaming from the major companies simply means that others like Managerzone will remain just that. Small fry, with some fans that are diehard.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[FESP]
President
lamishto wrote:
I noticed since I returned to this game that too many things have not changed since i left in the sense that this game is too much pay to play and I was thinking what is the horizon of a new player who does not pay money to be a member, practically has no future in the game since he only plays two official matches a week it may seem to me but I see that the MZ community is declining because old users are retiring and nothing comes from behind and I think this game should be refreshed by organizing free competitions u18, u21, u23 for all users periodically
and apart from that maybe other things can be done but I don't see the MZ staff to worry about that


First, sorry about my English.

I couldnt agree more. Staff really does not worry about. No worries on better simulator ( 3 passing options, but WINGS is the winner one ), no worries on youth players that comes with 3 balls of tackling but his strength is shooting ) , no worries on new game options, no worries on promoting the game, no worries on encourage new users to stay on the game ( more free tournments ), no worries on a new tools , and so on .

And yes, there are less and less users on MZ. We see more activity in the last few months because of covid19. Still, will not take long to see more inactive teams, as people realize there are better simulators out there ( for the ones who want to keep playing online).

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I remember when div3 in Ireland or div 8 in Poland was active. Those times are gone. Especially the small countries are going madly down. I would not only blame the MZ for this but the people's mentality.

The young generation are not patient sometimes not even smart enough to play this game :D

I started when I was 17 back in 2009, football was my passion, I had loads of friends my age playing it then all of them left. Now even in my Polish clan I am the youngest playing when I'm 28.. People arround 35-45 are the main average now I think.

World changed a bit, times changed, it's not only the MZ's fault.

Young people have many free "clickin" online games, when you can make the advantage up over the other users by the time playing, MZ doesn't work like this, therefore is boring for some people. Because you won't overtake anything, you have to slowly, patiently play it, wait, train etc. And of course many paid features.

I've noticed even though there is few new users in Ireland from time to time they usually don't last.. Or play it for few weeks and then game over. We wouldn't think but I can bet for some new users MZ is too hard, too complicated etc. They probably think this, too much to do :)

Fair play for countries like Argentina, MZ there is always on a high level, sometimes I play against div6-7 there. MZ still alive there.

Edited- swearing or implied swearing is against forum rules
/chucky06
Edited: 18-08-2020 03:21
Total edits: 1

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I remember when I started MZ, it was in 2009 and strange .. at that time it was not so developed that now and still there were many who played the game, in Romania division 6 was active, now division 3.


Meanwhile the game it has changed, it is much more interactive than before, but the users are decreasing because the old users are retiring and the new ones are not so patient and are not willing to pay too much money, so the game has to adapt to the times.


A season lasts 3 months and to grow a good player it takes more than two years and to play you have to pay around 15 euros per month, sometimes it is annoying to wait more than a month for a new ball


Do you think there will be a radical change in this game in the near future?

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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It's a legacy game. But, surprisingly the crew still invest some "resources" on new development (small things, but, yet... is more than nothing). The game is probably still profitable, or, at least, not in debt.
MZ reality is that old players are addicted and new players doesn't exist; this is true for the last 5-10 years. I don't see any reason for that to change.
But, sooner or later it will have the fate of Google+ . I am here for the last 17 years and I am surprised it is still running.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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There should be some new campaign to keep the new reigstered managers. Because I see in Ireland 99% don't stay , it's a good sing good few still registere even for a small nation like ours, but arround 3-4 weeks and they are gone.

People are lazy now, they don't bother to read the forum at the start or faq, they probably quit because they don't know what to do, it seems hard and another unfortunate thing, every 3 click you get the message " only for CM". It would be rare that the new manager would buy the CM straight away.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[FLUSA]
President
lukaszsz182 wrote:
There should be some new campaign to keep the new reigstered managers. Because I see in Ireland 99% don't stay , it's a good sing good few still registere even for a small nation like ours, but arround 3-4 weeks and they are gone.

People are lazy now, they don't bother to read the forum at the start or faq, they probably quit because they don't know what to do, it seems hard and another unfortunate thing, every 3 click you get the message " only for CM". It would be rare that the new manager would buy the CM straight away.


I'd say give 1 month free CM to every new user so they get to experience the game in full, maybe you can convert some of those new users to paying customers once they get the taste of CM....

Also, not sure how the game looks now without CM but I remember that when I started playing it was full of spammy banners & popups and I'm not sure if people is willing to give an opportunity to a spammy game this days, I'm not even sure how spammy the game is now, maybe it's worse or maybe is better but to be honest, when I go to a site and get hit by spam & popups, I'm concerned about viruses, exploits, etc. and just leave quickly without giving the site much of a chance.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[B&IFF]
President
darkline wrote:
I'd say give 1 month free CM to every new user so they get to experience the game in full, maybe you can convert some of those new users to paying customers once they get the taste of CM....

Also, not sure how the game looks now without CM but I remember that when I started playing it was full of spammy banners & popups and I'm not sure if people is willing to give an opportunity to a spammy game this days, I'm not even sure how spammy the game is now, maybe it's worse or maybe is better but to be honest, when I go to a site and get hit by spam & popups, I'm concerned about viruses, exploits, etc. and just leave quickly without giving the site much of a chance.


The spam is worse now than back in the day! You get interrupted with adverts now! Before it used to be an advert at the bottom or top of the page.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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MZ will be here 'til the end of time
So you got to let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I think there’s been some consideration to how to retain new users - Loyal players for example do offer a head start as it were and achievement chains are new to me on returning (offering a reminder every now and then that you’re making some progress..).

However, I’ll reiterate what I’ve posted previously - the game’s marketing (whilst limited is all wrong). The video on the MZ home screen (may have changed*) previously waxed lyrical about the the live in game sim, winning and climbing the leagues - in essence buzz words to attracting an impatient/ seeking instant gratification user base who quickly realise the match engine is not comparable to alternative games and you can only climb a couple of leagues through quick fixes (and therefore leave...).

Instead the marketing should explain its a strategy game for long term, transfer market savvy thinkers who can build a club plan etc etc. Targeting users who play strategy based games already/ follow retro football feeds etc.

Don’t get me wrong up take may appear to drop initially but conversion > to sustained and paying user base will be higher and a better model.

Also like darkline’s suggestion on a month free hook - no harm in that.

National Cups should definitely be free. I also previously suggested a free ‘home grown’ cup with no foreign players that would help stimulate the need for a focus on developing academy prospects/ fuel the local transfer markets.

My ten pence (wrote more than I intended!).

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I agree with everything Webregas said.

It would also be really refreshing to receive an update from the Crew / Developers at the beginning (or end) of the season outlining what they’ve worked on and what they’re developing.

Whilst we may disagree in the direction, I think it would be good to be know that someone - somewhere - has a plan for what’s next & some kind of timeframe for it.

A few seasons back we got a flurry of updates such as the new youth analysis tool and a few other new features; it was great. It felt like there was purpose and commitment towards advancing the game.... but since then it’s been radio silence in terms of development.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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Agree fully 1 cm free would be great for them, i think hatrick manager is doing that but the game is So bad nowhere close MZ. National cups and training graph should be free. Imagine how can the user check the blocks having no graph. It would takę ages to check all the players. About the ads just use ad blocker when i run out of cm sometimes i dont See any ads.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[AUS]
President
lukaszsz182 wrote:
Agree fully 1 cm free would be great for them, i think hatrick manager is doing that but the game is So bad nowhere close MZ. National cups and training graph should be free. Imagine how can the user check the blocks having no graph. It would takę ages to check all the players. About the ads just use ad blocker when i run out of cm sometimes i dont See any ads.


The more things you make free the more you cheapen your product making it less likely people want to spend real money on the game which inevitably grows the game. Needs to be a balance for sure.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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National Cups and training graph wouldn't change this, people buy CM for much more than just National and the graph, Nationals should be free for the reason that countries have 3-4 active men in the top league if they don't pay any money there is no point for playing for them, facing ghost teams or playing friendlies, non paying users are crucial as well for the game to grow ;]

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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good game anyway.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I started in Feb 2007, then the game was fresh... i had quite a few collegues also managing teams... highest i got was runner up in the EPL and i won the National cup, this was when there was many users... 2 things.. the SIM was believable, and Crew were constantly talking to users...
IMO the SIM killed the game by becoming a joke.. the strikers backpassed instead of shooting (probably still do ) i dont watch any more... managers interacted, had group evenings out on the lash it was good... i left like most of the older managers mainly due to frustration with the sim.. im back now, i dont spend on CM, i buy tokens to enter comps, i dont watch games and i spend around 10 mins every other day. The future ? without CREW becoming interested in the game they host, why should we... its a dead horse i keep flogging... hoping crew will resurect some interest... but i doubt they will.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[MZUSA]
President
Just checked the change log, looks like 2019 was a busy year. 2020 not a peep.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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smiffythebull wrote:
its a dead horse i keep flogging...


Certainly feeling that way with every passing month now Smiffy.

I have been paying for CM for years now but the overall atmosphere around the games future is pretty dire and the inevitable doesn't feel too far away.

For me it is still worth playing as I still enjoy it and for the small miracle there is still a small competitive community in Scottish MZ.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[SCP FI]
President
smiffythebull wrote:
I started in Feb 2007, then the game was fresh... i had quite a few collegues also managing teams... highest i got was runner up in the EPL and i won the National cup, this was when there was many users... 2 things.. the SIM was believable, and Crew were constantly talking to users...
IMO the SIM killed the game by becoming a joke.. the strikers backpassed instead of shooting (probably still do ) i dont watch any more... managers interacted, had group evenings out on the lash it was good... i left like most of the older managers mainly due to frustration with the sim.. im back now, i dont spend on CM, i buy tokens to enter comps, i dont watch games and i spend around 10 mins every other day. The future ? without CREW becoming interested in the game they host, why should we... its a dead horse i keep flogging... hoping crew will resurect some interest... but i doubt they will.


IN Portugal, people feel same way has described here. Do we still have CREW in this game? Why a SIM that keeps and insists giving strenght to minor teams and taking it off from major teams? Let´s face it: Managers with worst teams also become tired, later with good teams and come to pass trough exactly the same, but now facing the opposite.

Why Instant matches? Two matches with exactly same tactics and score totally differents. This season I did a IM againt one team and lost 5-0. In the match for Portuguese League, I played with same tactic, like my opponent did and I won 5-0! What´s the truth we can take about IM´s?

Crew: Obviously this is a game that is planned to give you guys money. I can understand that and accept it, but, please manage things so people become interested for the game instead the opposite. If they are interested for it, of course they will remain here for a longer period...

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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Hello, from Portugal,

We're here discussing this same issue in Portugal, regarding all the incongruities that we're observe in the game now.

Instant Matches are simply, a fraud.

In a lot of matches, there is no logic support on the result.
In spite of the aleatory natural percentage in every matches, now, I thing that this percentage increase much more in all matches, also regarding official ones.

I'm in MZ game for a lot of years, I love this game since the beginning of my journey.
I've created more than 100 Friendly Leagues, giving a lot of Money to MZ, but now, I'm ponder to continue here or not.

As above mentioned, Crew remains in silence, with no information at all about nothing.
Seems that we are here, olnly to pay the Club Member and other taxes.

My team, in spite of new good players, it's worse than before, incredible.

Unfortunatly, I'm totaly disappointed with this present situation, and with all doughts emerging in my mind on this game now.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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chucky06 wrote:
The reality is crew don’t make any money of users who aren’t paying to play. There needs to be incentives for people to be a member or buying power tokens to keep the game profitable.

You’re right, changes are few and far between though and the game hasn’t evolved as it should have


I agree with you

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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Hello from Israel

I returned to play after many years, I would like to be a Club Member, but the values ​​for that are very expensive, I made a suggestion to the Crew and I expect a response from them.

Many Israeli users stop gambling because the amount to stay is expensive, the majority of active users here do not spend with ManagerZone because the amount to pay is too high.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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uspacheco wrote:

First, sorry about my English.

I couldnt agree more. Staff really does not worry about. No worries on better simulator ( 3 passing options, but WINGS is the winner one ), no worries on youth players that comes with 3 balls of tackling but his strength is shooting ) , no worries on new game options, no worries on promoting the game, no worries on encourage new users to stay on the game ( more free tournments ), no worries on a new tools , and so on .


Hiello from Portugal

Agreeing and adding the following: the wing game, with only 2 or 3 players at the front, has more volume and goals opportunities than a more balanced team. Because in real life, the teams in Europe's top leagues all play like that. When they have the ball, they throw the ball to the extreme, to crossing to the extraordinary striker.

CREW should have more consideration, especially for the game itself. If the idea is to give more "attention" to new users, then, I think they are going the wrong way: 1 distorting the game, since the worst teams win more easily; 2 discouraged the older managers to stay in the game; 3 the younger managers, when they feel it in the skin, in addition to feeling unmotivated as well, they will feel betrayed (if before they won when they had weaker teams, they stop winning with better players).

However, I agree with the deterioration of the players. We shouldn't have players running at 35 years old (at speed 10) the same when they were 25. Not everything is negative.

But there could be small changes. Hoping that CREW is willing to do that.

Cheers

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[ENG]
President
The game is classed as legacy by the owners, it's not even in the active portfolio. It's a game with a long tail of active users which keeps is self sustaining.

I'd doubt there is even a market for it now. It's a browser game in a mobile world. If Stillfront wanted a mobile game then it would probably be more cost effective to start one from scratch or just buy one.

There is a current userbase which provides a long and steady revenue stream, and that is pretty much what MZ exists for now. You'll have the staff to keep the game ticking over, which is where the little developments will come through, but broadly what it is, is what it is. It's not been developed for the best part of a decade, and will continue this way.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[AUS]
President
mosmosmos wrote:
The game is classed as legacy by the owners, it's not even in the active portfolio. It's a game with a long tail of active users which keeps is self sustaining.

I'd doubt there is even a market for it now. It's a browser game in a mobile world. If Stillfront wanted a mobile game then it would probably be more cost effective to start one from scratch or just buy one.

There is a current userbase which provides a long and steady revenue stream, and that is pretty much what MZ exists for now. You'll have the staff to keep the game ticking over, which is where the little developments will come through, but broadly what it is, is what it is. It's not been developed for the best part of a decade, and will continue this way.


Exactly- the game is brittle and could collapse at any time. The crew have shown for years with their actions or in this case in-action they aren’t going to put any money into the game. It would only take a bunch of the paying users from each country to leave and the game would crumble.
Edited: 29-09-2020 00:57
Total edits: 1

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[FLF]
President
Hello everybody. I'm from Portugal.
I play Managerzone since 11/06/2008. 12 years. But before that I was in Managerzone since 2004. So at this moment I'm here with 16 years.

I agree with most of what was written here.

Instant matches don't serve for anything that have minimal interest for us.
They serve to give us a "thing" that as no value. And with this we pay. We are club member. So, we pay. We we receive document with our nif? No. They don´t send. Is this correct?

why the countries do not have MA and GA's with the nationality of the country?
Why we send request for information about transfers and no one responds?

Why new players in Portugal arrive and are send to the Division number 8 when there are in the Division 3 many teams that are not playing?

If I had to give a score from 0 to 10 for the current operation and with huge thought it would give 4.

Best regards for all that wrote here.

bajuda

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[AUS]
President
I can help answer a few of your questions-

MA’s/GA’s/FA’s etc are by region and basically language. It’s not required for every country to have GA’s and MA’s but only enough for each region. As the game’s member base declines so is the need for additional A’s.

Scout matches aren’t supposed to be exactly how a game goes. They are for testing tactics and to give you an indication of how a team will play. They aren’t how the game will go one bit and really are a bit of a waste.

Often you will not receive a response regarding any messages to support e.g. information about transfers. GA’s aren’t exactly going to share details of an investigation nor are they allowed to. Just like in real life police aren’t going to share details of a case with the public. You just need to trust the process.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I don't think this game gets "found" by younger people because it isn't on a digital distribution platform (Steam being the obvious one).

I would be aiming to update the sim itself, get some positivity back into the community, then look to launch on a new service.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I think sim was made to give more random scores so much worse team will be excited that they've beaten better teams ! Therefore it won't stop them from leaving the game, but I disagree with this. I play since 2009 and never complain on sim like I'm doing now but who doesn;t? I sold my team and a keeper plus 3 20 y/o ones plus bunch of 17/18 old can defeat often teams who have full squad of 12-13 k players :D

Unfortunately there is no young people like 15-18 coming to the game, wolrd change but MZ website looks the same (which I don't blame as I like it) so no chance for this. I joined in 2009 when I was 17 but back then we used to have 1MB internet, and everything was joy, now the world is crazy, that's why MZ is the game of "older" players I'd say.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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I have been here since 2003, Honestly when you have games on steam like football manager come out and you pay for it once and you get thousands of hours of playing time offline and online you just can't beat it.

MZ used to give prizes like PlayStation's and even once I think a brand new car.
The crew I feel like it kind of got the money and ran. No investment in this game has seen it decline and fall behind games like Football manager and cheaper alternatives

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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Just came back to have a look at how things are after a frnd suggested to get back. Looks like things are the same 😃

To be honest you don't have the staff or the investment to improve the sim gameplay visualisation but still want to run on a pay to win model will never work. Eventually it will see it's demise as slowly emotionally attached players will leave.

The better model would have been to improve user base, use social media to create a community base. Use country based targeted ADs and tie ups with other APPs.

I see in COD mobile n PUBG, players paying a bomb just for appearances. I don't understand how that can't be implemented with a big user base.

When you have countless number of tournaments they just become meaningless. To amny things are wrong at the decisions making level.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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numchacar wrote:
I have been here since 2003, Honestly when you have games on steam like football manager come out and you pay for it once and you get thousands of hours of playing time offline and online you just can't beat it.

MZ used to give prizes like PlayStation's and even once I think a brand new car.
The crew I feel like it kind of got the money and ran. No investment in this game has seen it decline and fall behind games like Football manager and cheaper alternatives


Playstation??? Brand new car?!

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[AUS]
President
luapardo wrote:
Playstation??? Brand new car?!


Yeh, between 2003-2006 there’s was really good prizes for winning cups from phones, DVD players, playstations, Amazon gift cards and heaps more. Mind you they were having around 12500 users enter though.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[FLUSA]
President
chucky06 wrote:
Yeh, between 2003-2006 there’s was really good prizes for winning cups from phones, DVD players, playstations, Amazon gift cards and heaps more. Mind you they were having around 12500 users enter though.


I remember winning a $100 Amazon gift order, probably around 2009/2010... it was really cool to win a real prize to be honest.

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[FLUSA]
President
I think the last cup to give actual money prizes was the UOL CUP #41 in 2012

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=private_cup&sub=info&cid=241235

It has a prize of $100 USD gift card from Amazon and it was played every season, not sure if any other cup had real prizes after 2012, I think this was the last one.

Edited: 08-11-2020 19:57
Total edits: 1

Beantwortet: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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Hello everybody,

This is such a coincidence that somebody brought up this topic, as I discussed it lately with several Bundesliga Managers.

To be honest, it is awful to see MZ in this situation of stagnation. I started playing MZ back in 2006 and left the game five years ago. When I returned in May 2020, I saw what? Exactly, good old MZ with no changes at all. Ok, sorry, Scout Reports are now available. WOW!

I work in the IT Industry, and boy; you can not tell me that somebody is developing this game because you would just lie. I know what I am talking about. If somebody would work on the game, then we would see it.

And THAT is the core problem, the reason why MZ will die for sure in the future. Payment is also a big thing, yes. I am not a poor man, but honestly, those prices here are just too high. I am always asking myself, "For what are they charging? This price is not justified.
But still, the main problem is that this game is not being developed. It is remaining in his status quo since the beginning, with some smaller changes.

Just think about it, who is going to use an old dialing telephone when you can use an iPhone?

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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Can we do something about it? Speak to the brains behind MZ?

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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When I look at the senior National Team scores, teams like France, Germany, Portugal, Sweden not leaving the group etc, when other weaker countries are, the question is for how much long we will tolerate this crazy sim? I play the game since 2009 and never seen crazy scores like in today's MZ.

The randomness is so high, x3 worse teams are able to win now no problem. Because of this crazy scores since 2 seasons I just decided to play my own youths only, no point buying players for millions and be simmed, this is over for me. Probably will stick with playing my own trained players now, I don't see no other point...

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[B&IFF]
President
Do you not think some of the smaller teams have used a bit of tactical knowledge?

I have switched my tactics to suit each game. We got turned over by Romania 5-0 in what was actually a close game 50% possession 13 shots on target to 10.

Maybe just maybe France, Germany Portugal and Sweden managers were lazy and stuck to the same tactics expecting to win? (I have not looked at any of there games)

Just a thought!

I have Turkey next and I’m expecting to be battered! But you never know!

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[FLUSA]
President
Bolivia beat Argentina 4-1 , just too much of a difference between Countries for this result to happen regardless of tactics.

Just to put it in context, Bolivia has about 2 or 3 active managers, an NC that won the elections with 1 vote (himself of course)and affected by the funniest bug that means every new generated youth in Bolivia starts with the letters "AB" (Check the Bolivian NT lineup to see what I mean)

Not taking anything away from their NC but how strong can the NT be if their complete pool of players come from 2/3 managers?

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[B&IFF]
President
Might be wrong but I’m sure they spanked us in a gate prior to qualifying groups 😂

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[B&IFF]
President
Game*

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[SCP FI]
President
brian_mcsnail wrote:


Maybe just maybe France, Germany Portugal and Sweden managers were lazy and stuck to the same tactics expecting to win? (I have not looked at any of there games)

Just a thought!


Wrong thought, in case of Portugal, I must say. :)

Re: The future of MZ is..or is nor?

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[B&IFF]
President
sergiorib wrote:
Wrong thought, in case of Portugal, I must say. :)

Like I said I never watched any of these teams games so can’t really comment. It was just a generic observation :)
 
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