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Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By floodish - 10-06-2020 23:15

[BotP]

Hi, could some one help me out here. Does anyone really checked coaches speed training performance helps players to speed up the way they train and get balls. Is it really worth getting 10 stars coaches and paying so much a week on wages , do you get this investment in return? how can this be checked. To be honest I never even care about coaches and I have the worst one, so maybe Im losing big not investing in good one or maybe Im doing just great and stay how Im until today. Thanks for your feedback, any info will helpHi, could some one help me out here. Does anyone really checked coaches speed training performance helps players to speed up the way they train and get balls.

Is it really worth getting 10 stars coaches and paying so much a week on wages , do you get this investment in return? how can this be checked.

To be honest I never even care about coaches and I have the worst one, so maybe Im losing big not investing in good one or maybe Im doing just great and stay how Im until today.

Thanks for your feedback, any info will help

 

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Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By caiobos - 11-06-2020 00:13

[CIMZ]

I have noticed a training speed increase when using coaches with more balls in the skill than the player. This is specially true for old players with many balls in the skills. Generally the first 5 balls are never that hard to get. For example, a 27y guy was training stamina at 2 bar only, sometimes 1. With a 9 ball coach the speed increased to 4 bar. In this case, twice as faster. If your team is young, you don't feel that much difference. But as the team get old and the players have more balls, you get annoyed seeing such a slow training speed. I have only 4 good coaches(8 or 9 balls). Planning to have 5-6 soon.I have noticed a training speed increase when using coaches with more balls in the skill than the player.

This is specially true for old players with many balls in the skills. Generally the first 5 balls are never that hard to get.

For example, a 27y guy was training stamina at 2 bar only, sometimes 1.
With a 9 ball coach the speed increased to 4 bar. In this case, twice as faster.

If your team is young, you don't feel that much difference. But as the team get old and the players have more balls, you get annoyed seeing such a slow training speed.

I have only 4 good coaches(8 or 9 balls). Planning to have 5-6 soon.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By manekaster - 11-06-2020 00:45

[TDF]
President

Class A coaches = waste of money Class B coaches = valueClass A coaches = waste of money
Class B coaches = value

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By civilu - 11-06-2020 10:28

[RAF]
President

B class with 9 balls on skill are the best value for money spent (5-6.ooo E/week). I even have former players rated as B coaches (9@/skill) who I hired because they got to wages of 3-4k/week.B class with 9 balls on skill are the best value for money spent (5-6.ooo E/week). I even have former players rated as B coaches (9@/skill) who I hired because they got to wages of 3-4k/week.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By civilu - 11-06-2020 10:31

[RAF]
President

PS: Increase in training speed? FOR SURE! But this is known and advocated by crew many times: - speed 1: no coach, speed x - speed 2: coach with lesser/the same balls on the trained skill, speed x+ (not so much, not worth it) - speed 3: coach with more balls on trained skill, speed x++ (note that there is no difference if the extra balls are 1 or 9)PS: Increase in training speed? FOR SURE! But this is known and advocated by crew many times:
- speed 1: no coach, speed x
- speed 2: coach with lesser/the same balls on the trained skill, speed x+ (not so much, not worth it)
- speed 3: coach with more balls on trained skill, speed x++ (note that there is no difference if the extra balls are 1 or 9)

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By floodish - 11-06-2020 14:35

[BotP]

Ok great, thanks for all the valuable informationOk great, thanks for all the valuable information

Ri: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By frony - 11-06-2020 14:58

[FALCO]

This is how it was before the introduction of the training 2.1 - new coach system. If you hire one 10@ coach you'll see the players that he train gain higher positions in the training report. A 10@ coach is better that a 9@ in any case.

civilu wrote:

PS: Increase in training speed? FOR SURE! But this is known and advocated by crew many times:
- speed 1: no coach, speed x
- speed 2: coach with lesser/the same balls on the trained skill, speed x+ (not so much, not worth it)
- speed 3: coach with more balls on trained skill, speed x++ (note that there is no difference if the extra balls are 1 or 9)

This is how it was before the introduction of the training 2.1 - new coach system.
If you hire one 10@ coach you'll see the players that he train gain higher positions in the training report. A 10@ coach is better that a 9@ in any case.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By chucky06 - 11-06-2020 15:20

[AUSNZ]
President

The best thing to do is get your initial coaches and then continue to negotiate wages lower and lower until you get to the lowest point. Additionally, if you have a 9 ball coach on say shooting. Check the coaches regularly for 9 ball shooting coaches and see if you can sign that coach for less. Fire your initial coach an repeat till you are confident you aren’t overpayingThe best thing to do is get your initial coaches and then continue to negotiate wages lower and lower until you get to the lowest point.

Additionally, if you have a 9 ball coach on say shooting. Check the coaches regularly for 9 ball shooting coaches and see if you can sign that coach for less. Fire your initial coach an repeat till you are confident you aren’t overpaying

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By civilu - 12-06-2020 15:20

[RAF]
President

Any official news on this? I don't remember!

frony wrote:

This is how it was before the introduction of the training 2.1 - new coach system.
If you hire one 10@ coach you'll see the players that he train gain higher positions in the training report. A 10@ coach is better that a 9@ in any case.

Any official news on this? I don't remember!

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By troyh65 - 12-06-2020 15:46

[Juve]

This is a great option. I've cut wages quite a bit by doing this.

chucky06 wrote:

The best thing to do is get your initial coaches and then continue to negotiate wages lower and lower until you get to the lowest point.

This is a great option. I've cut wages quite a bit by doing this.

Ri: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By scofield - 13-06-2020 08:37

[BDL]

Maybe it can be useful this link: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=news&nid=75852

civilu wrote:

Any official news on this? I don't remember!

Maybe it can be useful this link:

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=news&nid=75852

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 13-06-2020 12:43

[FLUSA]
President

Funny because I checked on this a few weeks ago and changed my B coaches to A coaches, whether is worth it or not I'm not sure, for me it is because I train a lot of players. Here's the short story, I had all B coaches, I bought a 22 y/old player and I noticed that during the 1st week he always got 5 training bars wheter on his previous team he was getting 50% of the times 6 bars and 50% 5 bars, so I decided to ask the previous owner what sort of coach he had on him and he said an A coach, so I got "A" coachs for myself and that's pretty much what you get, an extra bar 50% of the times. One thing, I did the big mistake of changing some of my B coaches to A coaches for my youths assuming I would get the same results, wrong, apparently the older the player the more benefit he gets from having an A coach on him, youths seems to get no benefit at all... maybe the very slow trainers but still not worth to get A coaches for youths.Funny because I checked on this a few weeks ago and changed my B coaches to A coaches, whether is worth it or not I'm not sure, for me it is because I train a lot of players.

Here's the short story, I had all B coaches, I bought a 22 y/old player and I noticed that during the 1st week he always got 5 training bars wheter on his previous team he was getting 50% of the times 6 bars and 50% 5 bars, so I decided to ask the previous owner what sort of coach he had on him and he said an A coach, so I got "A" coachs for myself and that's pretty much what you get, an extra bar 50% of the times.

One thing, I did the big mistake of changing some of my B coaches to A coaches for my youths assuming I would get the same results, wrong, apparently the older the player the more benefit he gets from having an A coach on him, youths seems to get no benefit at all... maybe the very slow trainers but still not worth to get A coaches for youths.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 13-06-2020 13:25

[FLUSA]
President

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=news&nid=75852&share_sport=soccer The important bit is where it says: In Training 2.1 all Coaches are now more effective than before. When a Player passes the Coach’s skill level we will have a completely new way of determining how much boost the Coach will give. How well a Player trains now depends on the exact skill of the Coach. So a Coach with 6 in skill will always be more efficient than a Coach with 5 in skill. That's regardless of how good the Player is. Top level Coaches (now skill level 8 and above) will still be the most effective in training your Players.

civilu wrote:

Any official news on this? I don't remember!

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=news&nid=75852&share_sport=soccer

The important bit is where it says:

In Training 2.1 all Coaches are now more effective than before. When a Player passes the Coach’s skill level we will have a completely new way of determining how much boost the Coach will give. How well a Player trains now depends on the exact skill of the Coach. So a Coach with 6 in skill will always be more efficient than a Coach with 5 in skill. That's regardless of how good the Player is.

Top level Coaches (now skill level 8 and above) will still be the most effective in training your Players.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By deleted_170491 - 13-06-2020 15:06

In my opinion for Youths B coaches are good enough. 9 balls coach or 10 does not make a difference. I tested this for last couple months. I switch all my coaches to B class. I tested also players u19-u20 and you can see some better effects of the A trainer but I'm still not sure if it worth it. The difference in the wages is huge.In my opinion for Youths B coaches are good enough. 9 balls coach or 10 does not make a difference. I tested this for last couple months. I switch all my coaches to B class. I tested also players u19-u20 and you can see some better effects of the A trainer but I'm still not sure if it worth it. The difference in the wages is huge.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 13-06-2020 15:39

[FLUSA]
President

It seems the older the player, the bigger the impact of the coach, I have a 32 y/old training heading and went from 2 training bars to getting 75% 3 bars and 25% 4 bars, so for that particular player he went from virtually not training to actually training half decently and winning balls. Is really up to your personal circumnstances, I'm always training "older" players and I see the benefit so I don't mind expending an extra $30K a week on coaches, but I reckon for most managers it is probably not recommended, also it's undeniable you get more bang for your buck sticking to 9 ball coaches.It seems the older the player, the bigger the impact of the coach, I have a 32 y/old training heading and went from 2 training bars to getting 75% 3 bars and 25% 4 bars, so for that particular player he went from virtually not training to actually training half decently and winning balls.

Is really up to your personal circumnstances, I'm always training "older" players and I see the benefit so I don't mind expending an extra $30K a week on coaches, but I reckon for most managers it is probably not recommended, also it's undeniable you get more bang for your buck sticking to 9 ball coaches.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 15-06-2020 10:42

[BET]

Fire all your coaches. The investment we make in coaches doesn't yield the equal results in training speeds. This is a game after all right? So I don't understand why class A coaches can't get speeds of 80-90% which happens when players get sent to training camp. Who trains them in training camp if not a committee of secret class A coaches? lol Fire them all. You'll be save 400-millions a season. Spend this money on training camps instead.Fire all your coaches. The investment we make in coaches doesn't yield the equal results in training speeds. This is a game after all right? So I don't understand why class A coaches can't get speeds of 80-90% which happens when players get sent to training camp. Who trains them in training camp if not a committee of secret class A coaches? lol

Fire them all. You'll be save 400-millions a season. Spend this money on training camps instead.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By deleted_170491 - 15-06-2020 12:51

Are you searious? I guess yes, I see you have no coaches. Big mistake.Are you searious? I guess yes, I see you have no coaches. Big mistake.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By chucky06 - 15-06-2020 12:55

[AUSNZ]
President

Agreed, you can’t have no coaches that’s crazy. If you were to have limited coaches you’d only use them for youths but to have none at all I definitely wouldn’t recommendAgreed, you can’t have no coaches that’s crazy. If you were to have limited coaches you’d only use them for youths but to have none at all I definitely wouldn’t recommend

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 15-06-2020 18:28

[BET]

Trust me I know what I am doing :-). Don't just follow the crowd and hire coaches because that's the norm. Ask yourself this. Why do you need a coach? To help with training speed mainly right? - This would make sense if all players had the same training speed set at 4 stars so you can actually calculate the effect a class A coach will have compared to class D with a high degree of accuracy. But your class A coach would do great with a 3-4 star speed youth or senior but next to nothing for a 1- 2 star player. So imagine what class B C D coaches are doing for your players. They are just draining your resources. And throw in the mix the fact of hidden skills we actually don't know if some class A coaches are better than other class A coaches with the same ball distribution. But the root of this problem is the huge lottery that is the youth academy. This is a game after all so one would expect superstar youth pulls to be in the region of 30-40% but I doubt it is even 2% of all youth pulls including youth exchange players (partly responsible for the ridiculous inflation on the transfer market). So just having lots of coaches training players that just keep maxing early or reveal a very disturbing distribution of balls it just doesn't make financial sense to have coaches. What makes sense is training camps because of the boost you get in the later weeks. Paying coaches 13k a week to just give me 50% when the player was training at 40% on his own is not worth it for me but to each his own.

skalcik wrote:

Are you searious? I guess yes, I see you have no coaches. Big mistake.

Trust me I know what I am doing :-). Don't just follow the crowd and hire coaches because that's the norm. Ask yourself this.

Why do you need a coach?
To help with training speed mainly right? - This would make sense if all players had the same training speed set at 4 stars so you can actually calculate the effect a class A coach will have compared to class D with a high degree of accuracy. But your class A coach would do great with a 3-4 star speed youth or senior but next to nothing for a 1- 2 star player. So imagine what class B C D coaches are doing for your players. They are just draining your resources. And throw in the mix the fact of hidden skills we actually don't know if some class A coaches are better than other class A coaches with the same ball distribution.

But the root of this problem is the huge lottery that is the youth academy. This is a game after all so one would expect superstar youth pulls to be in the region of 30-40% but I doubt it is even 2% of all youth pulls including youth exchange players (partly responsible for the ridiculous inflation on the transfer market). So just having lots of coaches training players that just keep maxing early or reveal a very disturbing distribution of balls it just doesn't make financial sense to have coaches.

What makes sense is training camps because of the boost you get in the later weeks. Paying coaches 13k a week to just give me 50% when the player was training at 40% on his own is not worth it for me but to each his own.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 15-06-2020 18:30

[BET]

No coaches. They are a bunch of leaches. Yes even for youth players. What is crazy is a lot of people paying 40-100k for coaches that add 5-10% more training speed not 40 to 50%.

chucky06 wrote:

Agreed, you can’t have no coaches that’s crazy. If you were to have limited coaches you’d only use them for youths but to have none at all I definitely wouldn’t recommend

No coaches. They are a bunch of leaches. Yes even for youth players. What is crazy is a lot of people paying 40-100k for coaches that add 5-10% more training speed not 40 to 50%.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By deleted_170491 - 15-06-2020 19:42

My calculations are different. Thanks to a B-class coach a Youth player gains 1 or 1.5 ball more than a player without the coach per season. So during 3 seasons of youth time a players obtains 4 or 5 balls more. That's a lot. So I can sell that player with much better price at the age of 19 or 20. Or I can keep him for my U21 team. The average wages of B coach are 10k CDN, so I pay him 130k per season, 390k - 3 seasons. He trains 6 players at the same time, so the cost for 1 Youth is 65k The difference in the price for a u19 player with 35 and 40 balss can be around 500k-1mln. I think it's worth it. But you can be smarter, that's your choice ;)My calculations are different. Thanks to a B-class coach a Youth player gains 1 or 1.5 ball more than a player without the coach per season. So during 3 seasons of youth time a players obtains 4 or 5 balls more. That's a lot. So I can sell that player with much better price at the age of 19 or 20. Or I can keep him for my U21 team.

The average wages of B coach are 10k CDN, so I pay him 130k per season, 390k - 3 seasons. He trains 6 players at the same time, so the cost for 1 Youth is 65k The difference in the price for a u19 player with 35 and 40 balss can be around 500k-1mln. I think it's worth it.
But you can be smarter, that's your choice ;)

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 15-06-2020 20:04

[BET]

Bro it's not about being smart. If it works for you then by all means keep doing it :-). You have 16 coaches? lol wow. How much is your wage bill for the coaches? And also I think because of the wild swings in prices in the transfer market especially now that we have the new scouting system it is hard to train with a guaranteed market price in mind. There is this 27 year old national team potential player from MZ country that has been listed for about three months with no buyers even when listed at below usd900k. I also did some research before taking my decision and at one point I had a coaching bill of over 70k sometimes 100k if I remember correctly some years ago because it's not about having one b or a class coach it is about covering most positions right? And then if you add the additional coaches for youth players you can imagine staff salaries ballooning out of control. Many teams do this and so are virtually running their clubs at a loss every week waiting for board bonuses. This makes no sense to me unless you're spending a lot of money on cup competions,world leagues, uxx competitions, friendlies etc.. SO sinking about 2mill to 3 mill in three seasons in coaches in the hopes of getting some world class players especially when you have no clue when these players will max, having a training system reliant on coaches is too much of a gamble for me. I just sold one of my youth players for about usd3.2million some weeks ago but this is just one player from my academy I sold that fetched over 700k after playing the game again since 2017. So I hope you see why I took the decision of playing without coaches?

skalcik wrote:

My calculations are different. Thanks to a B-class coach a Youth player gains 1 or 1.5 ball more than a player without the coach per season. So during 3 seasons of youth time a players obtains 4 or 5 balls more. That's a lot. So I can sell that player with much better price at the age of 19 or 20. Or I can keep him for my U21 team.

The average wages of B coach are 10k CDN, so I pay him 130k per season, 390k - 3 seasons. He trains 6 players at the same time, so the cost for 1 Youth is 65k The difference in the price for a u19 player with 35 and 40 balss can be around 500k-1mln. I think it's worth it.
But you can be smarter, that's your choice ;)

Bro it's not about being smart. If it works for you then by all means keep doing it :-).

You have 16 coaches? lol wow. How much is your wage bill for the coaches? And also I think because of the wild swings in prices in the transfer market especially now that we have the new scouting system it is hard to train with a guaranteed market price in mind. There is this 27 year old national team potential player from MZ country that has been listed for about three months with no buyers even when listed at below usd900k.

I also did some research before taking my decision and at one point I had a coaching bill of over 70k sometimes 100k if I remember correctly some years ago because it's not about having one b or a class coach it is about covering most positions right? And then if you add the additional coaches for youth players you can imagine staff salaries ballooning out of control. Many teams do this and so are virtually running their clubs at a loss every week waiting for board bonuses. This makes no sense to me unless you're spending a lot of money on cup competions,world leagues, uxx competitions, friendlies etc..

SO sinking about 2mill to 3 mill in three seasons in coaches in the hopes of getting some world class players especially when you have no clue when these players will max, having a training system reliant on coaches is too much of a gamble for me.

I just sold one of my youth players for about usd3.2million some weeks ago but this is just one player from my academy I sold that fetched over 700k after playing the game again since 2017. So I hope you see why I took the decision of playing without coaches?

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 15-06-2020 20:57

[FLUSA]
President

You need to invest money to make money, I do invest a lot in coaches and camps, maybe you can't sell players for good money because you don't invest in coaches and end up with undertrained players, managers don't pay much for players if they don't have a decent number of total balls, I have 6/7 self trained players on the USA NT right now, also this season I sold a U21 NT and and NT player both coming out of my academy, one fetched $2M and the other sold for $6.5M, some of the players I'm using on my senior team also came from my academy and would probably fetch me about $10M each.... of course, not everyone is bound to be a star and I have many failures but it's something to be expected, you lose some and you win some but on the overall balance, I always end up winning by a large margin.

killerbeeez wrote:

SO sinking about 2mill to 3 mill in three seasons in coaches in the hopes of getting some world class players especially when you have no clue when these players will max, having a training system reliant on coaches is too much of a gamble for me.

You need to invest money to make money, I do invest a lot in coaches and camps, maybe you can't sell players for good money because you don't invest in coaches and end up with undertrained players, managers don't pay much for players if they don't have a decent number of total balls, I have 6/7 self trained players on the USA NT right now, also this season I sold a U21 NT and and NT player both coming out of my academy, one fetched $2M and the other sold for $6.5M, some of the players I'm using on my senior team also came from my academy and would probably fetch me about $10M each.... of course, not everyone is bound to be a star and I have many failures but it's something to be expected, you lose some and you win some but on the overall balance, I always end up winning by a large margin.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 16-06-2020 00:10

[BET]

Darkline you and I know I've been around for a long long time and so you should suspect that I did have coaches in the club for a long time too. I had coaches for years but like I said the trade off in having coaches hasn't been good for me because even with class A coaches my players maxed early, trained too slowly or had very bad ball distribution but I suspect it has to do with the distribution of talent according to countries because let me tell you that MZ country is not the country that produces a lot of world beating talents even for the other coaches not just me. And also saying that you have 7 players in the national team is not typical even for American standards. I doubt that every single club in the top two leagues of USA with coaches has 7 players that are NT candidates. This is simply not true. If it is then I think Crew should seriously think about how players are distributed according to countries because MZ country does not have the talents and not because every single club isn't investing in coaches. I have been doing just fine without coaches. And my youths are training just as they did with coaches because I send the potential talents to training camp and sell or discard the bad ones. This has been working for me just fine :-)

darkline wrote:

You need to invest money to make money, I do invest a lot in coaches and camps, maybe you can't sell players for good money because you don't invest in coaches and end up with undertrained players, managers don't pay much for players if they don't have a decent number of total balls, I have 6/7 self trained players on the USA NT right now, also this season I sold a U21 NT and and NT player both coming out of my academy, one fetched $2M and the other sold for $6.5M, some of the players I'm using on my senior team also came from my academy and would probably fetch me about $10M each.... of course, not everyone is bound to be a star and I have many failures but it's something to be expected, you lose some and you win some but on the overall balance, I always end up winning by a large margin.

Darkline you and I know I've been around for a long long time and so you should suspect that I did have coaches in the club for a long time too. I had coaches for years but like I said the trade off in having coaches hasn't been good for me because even with class A coaches my players maxed early, trained too slowly or had very bad ball distribution but I suspect it has to do with the distribution of talent according to countries because let me tell you that MZ country is not the country that produces a lot of world beating talents even for the other coaches not just me.

And also saying that you have 7 players in the national team is not typical even for American standards. I doubt that every single club in the top two leagues of USA with coaches has 7 players that are NT candidates. This is simply not true. If it is then I think Crew should seriously think about how players are distributed according to countries because MZ country does not have the talents and not because every single club isn't investing in coaches.

I have been doing just fine without coaches. And my youths are training just as they did with coaches because I send the potential talents to training camp and sell or discard the bad ones. This has been working for me just fine :-)

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 16-06-2020 00:20

[BET]

Also saving on coaches means you have more money available to stay competitive by buying foreigners to actually challenge for trophies. Not every managers cares about having players in the NT even though it is very prestigious but every manager wants to win titles right? SO why should there be only one way to do it? I'm all for the development of the local talent to stay competitive because I have been part of the National team staff for years and see what talent is actually available to us in the NT, but coming from a small country means this is next to impossible. So for clubs looking to stay competitive firing all coaches is one way to do so or you risk yooyooing between divisions because you're not good enough to stay in one league so keep dropping into a lower league you are too strong for.Also saving on coaches means you have more money available to stay competitive by buying foreigners to actually challenge for trophies. Not every managers cares about having players in the NT even though it is very prestigious but every manager wants to win titles right? SO why should there be only one way to do it?

I'm all for the development of the local talent to stay competitive because I have been part of the National team staff for years and see what talent is actually available to us in the NT, but coming from a small country means this is next to impossible. So for clubs looking to stay competitive firing all coaches is one way to do so or you risk yooyooing between divisions because you're not good enough to stay in one league so keep dropping into a lower league you are too strong for.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By floodish - 16-06-2020 00:22

[BotP]

Its great to see so many different opinions, nobody has the real recipe and thats very good. To be honest I never had coaches or the ones I hire were always F coaches with 4 balls just to have something there "helping" my players, but paying nothing or close to 0 every week. For some its something very important and for others they are useless so finding the best balance for your team is the key. No one has the MZ bible :)Its great to see so many different opinions, nobody has the real recipe and thats very good. To be honest I never had coaches or the ones I hire were always F coaches with 4 balls just to have something there "helping" my players, but paying nothing or close to 0 every week. For some its something very important and for others they are useless so finding the best balance for your team is the key. No one has the MZ bible :)

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 16-06-2020 00:53

[FLUSA]
President

I pretty much don't care about having players on the NT, I'm not training players for that purpose, I'm training players so I can fill the gaps that exist on the market, I won the Champions Cup with only 2 foreign players + own developed talent so you can definitively win cups without relying exclusively on the transfer market. Is kind of typical for me, that's because I don't sell my talent for money, I keep most of the youths that have potential and I keep giving them camps until they're ready to play, don't care if they're 25 or even 26 years old. Here's a few that are on my team and came from my youth academy: [fpl=202777989] [fpl=201709032] [fpl=202840009] [fpl=204484509] Bonham was 10/10 on Speed/Stamina but due to age deteriorated, had 3/4 from my youth academy that sold last season due to deteriorations and of course, I have a bunch of 24/25 y/olds that I'm getting ready that should be similar to this guys in a few seasons. And is not luck btw, I have my own system to get rid of the useless and keep only the players with potential, I will admit that I understood very well the YTC system we had in the past and it was easier for me to separate the good from the bad in the past, but still I'm getting decent results with the new scouting system.

killerbeeez wrote:

Also saving on coaches means you have more money available to stay competitive by buying foreigners to actually challenge for trophies. Not every managers cares about having players in the NT even though it is very prestigious but every manager wants to win titles right? SO why should there be only one way to do it?

I pretty much don't care about having players on the NT, I'm not training players for that purpose, I'm training players so I can fill the gaps that exist on the market, I won the Champions Cup with only 2 foreign players + own developed talent so you can definitively win cups without relying exclusively on the transfer market.

killerbeeez wrote:

And also saying that you have 7 players in the national team is not typical even for American standards. I doubt that every single club in the top two leagues of USA with coaches has 7 players that are NT candidates.

Is kind of typical for me, that's because I don't sell my talent for money, I keep most of the youths that have potential and I keep giving them camps until they're ready to play, don't care if they're 25 or even 26 years old.

Here's a few that are on my team and came from my youth academy:

Johnny Cash

Age: 44 (Retired)

John Bonham

Age: 46 (Retired)

Judas Priest

Age: 44 (Retired)

Ozzy Osbourne

Age: 42 (Retired)

Bonham was 10/10 on Speed/Stamina but due to age deteriorated, had 3/4 from my youth academy that sold last season due to deteriorations and of course, I have a bunch of 24/25 y/olds that I'm getting ready that should be similar to this guys in a few seasons.

And is not luck btw, I have my own system to get rid of the useless and keep only the players with potential, I will admit that I understood very well the YTC system we had in the past and it was easier for me to separate the good from the bad in the past, but still I'm getting decent results with the new scouting system.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By floodish - 16-06-2020 00:56

[BotP]

Could you share your system on how to determine at young stage if a youth should stay or not in your team for the long run? thanks

darkline wrote:

And is not luck btw, I have my own system to get rid of the useless and keep only the players with potential, I will admit that I understood very well the YTC system we had in the past and it was easier for me to separate the good from the bad in the past, but still I'm getting decent results with the new scouting system.

Could you share your system on how to determine at young stage if a youth should stay or not in your team for the long run? thanks

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 16-06-2020 01:02

[FLUSA]
President

Btw, I had all 9 balls coaches until a few weeks ago, it's only recently that I upgraded to 10 ball coaches just to get that little extra boost in training, but 9 ball coaches are a better value.... but having no coaches or very poor ones just means your players will not be trained properly, a player trained with coaches will have at least 10 more balls by 21 y/old in total that a player you trained without coaches.Btw, I had all 9 balls coaches until a few weeks ago, it's only recently that I upgraded to 10 ball coaches just to get that little extra boost in training, but 9 ball coaches are a better value.... but having no coaches or very poor ones just means your players will not be trained properly, a player trained with coaches will have at least 10 more balls by 21 y/old in total that a player you trained without coaches.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By floodish - 16-06-2020 01:08

[BotP]

I will start with the 9 ball coaches system for a start and see my resultsI will start with the 9 ball coaches system for a start and see my results

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 16-06-2020 01:26

[FLUSA]
President

Is irrelevant now and I did explain it on this forum a few times in detail, as a matter of fact I explained it every time someone would argue that YTCs where random, were a waste of time, didn't get results, etc. etc. , but my system worked only with the previous YTC, basically depending on the YTC I got I could tell if a player was more likely to max in speed, stamina or control, so what I did is train the skill most likely to max as fast as possible, if he was able to reach 9 balls (8 unmaxed) then that player had lots of potential and because YTC suggested a position, I would know if I should train him as a striker or defender (mids I trained as defenders), if he maxed at 8 and trained fast I would keep him and if he was slow I'd swap him or sell him when he graduates and 7 or less I always discarded the player. I find the new star scouting system more difficult, it gives you 2 high skills and 2 poor skills, but many times depending on the HP/LP skills combo, the information you get is not useful at all. Additionally it has the double knockout effect of ruining the market a bit, in the past people would sell players with the scout report and it was easy for me to tell which ones had potential and sometimes find a good bargain on a poorly trained player with potential, but nowadays you can't find a bargain on the market as if a player has a good scout even newbies will recognize the potential, so you see a 4HP/2LP on the market on decent skills and you'll have a bunch of managers with deep pockets bidding on the player driving the prices to unrealistically high levels.

floodish wrote:

Could you share your system on how to determine at young stage if a youth should stay or not in your team for the long run? thanks

Is irrelevant now and I did explain it on this forum a few times in detail, as a matter of fact I explained it every time someone would argue that YTCs where random, were a waste of time, didn't get results, etc. etc. , but my system worked only with the previous YTC, basically depending on the YTC I got I could tell if a player was more likely to max in speed, stamina or control, so what I did is train the skill most likely to max as fast as possible, if he was able to reach 9 balls (8 unmaxed) then that player had lots of potential and because YTC suggested a position, I would know if I should train him as a striker or defender (mids I trained as defenders), if he maxed at 8 and trained fast I would keep him and if he was slow I'd swap him or sell him when he graduates and 7 or less I always discarded the player.

I find the new star scouting system more difficult, it gives you 2 high skills and 2 poor skills, but many times depending on the HP/LP skills combo, the information you get is not useful at all. Additionally it has the double knockout effect of ruining the market a bit, in the past people would sell players with the scout report and it was easy for me to tell which ones had potential and sometimes find a good bargain on a poorly trained player with potential, but nowadays you can't find a bargain on the market as if a player has a good scout even newbies will recognize the potential, so you see a 4HP/2LP on the market on decent skills and you'll have a bunch of managers with deep pockets bidding on the player driving the prices to unrealistically high levels.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By elusive - 16-06-2020 01:51

[MZ]

Completely agree good coaches are essential. Whilst I haven't studied the difference in training speeds between not coaching and having them, they clearly do contribute to faster training speeds. As Darkline says, without coaches players WILL be under trained and when U21/U23 players are in such a demand, more than they used to be with the implementation of Uxx leagues/cups in the game, there is alot of transfer value to be missed if players aren't trained to their maximum potential. Yes coaches cost money each week but another way this is partially offset is knowing a players potential as soon as possible whilst they are younger can also save money in the long run. Decisions can be made earlier on players future, saving weeks of wages by releasing/selling them if they aren't going to cut it in your team. If nobody in Scotland (for example) used coaches to train their players the pool of National Team would become even further behind countries where there are more users. Of course this is a secondary concern to most, our primary concern are our club teams.Completely agree good coaches are essential. Whilst I haven't studied the difference in training speeds between not coaching and having them, they clearly do contribute to faster training speeds.
As Darkline says, without coaches players WILL be under trained and when U21/U23 players are in such a demand, more than they used to be with the implementation of Uxx leagues/cups in the game, there is alot of transfer value to be missed if players aren't trained to their maximum potential. Yes coaches cost money each week but another way this is partially offset is knowing a players potential as soon as possible whilst they are younger can also save money in the long run. Decisions can be made earlier on players future, saving weeks of wages by releasing/selling them if they aren't going to cut it in your team.

If nobody in Scotland (for example) used coaches to train their players the pool of National Team would become even further behind countries where there are more users. Of course this is a secondary concern to most, our primary concern are our club teams.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 16-06-2020 02:36

[FLUSA]
President

Well I just checked on my players, keep in mind I'm using 10 ball coaches, not sure how this will compare to 9 ball coaches, most of the players I have between 19 and 22 y/old with 10 ball coaches are winning one ball every 16 days in average. Now keep in mind that while some players will keep training fast up until they're 25 y/old or even older, the average player starts training slower when he turns 23 y/old, but they could start training slower at any age and if they start too young, then that player might not be useful. Now there's more that I'd like to investigate in the future, for example I have a 19 y/old with "4 stars youth training speed" and he's gaining a ball every 14 days (training the 9th ball), I have another 19 y/old but a "1 star training" and he wins 1 ball every 17 days (training the 5th ball), so it appears even when they graduate a 4 star training player will keep training faster than a 1 star, but will the stars in training speed affect at what age will the player start training slower? I don't know yet... need to keep training a bunch of players before I can draw any meaningful conclusions, but is something to keep in mind as it will be useful to find out.Well I just checked on my players, keep in mind I'm using 10 ball coaches, not sure how this will compare to 9 ball coaches, most of the players I have between 19 and 22 y/old with 10 ball coaches are winning one ball every 16 days in average.

Now keep in mind that while some players will keep training fast up until they're 25 y/old or even older, the average player starts training slower when he turns 23 y/old, but they could start training slower at any age and if they start too young, then that player might not be useful.

Now there's more that I'd like to investigate in the future, for example I have a 19 y/old with "4 stars youth training speed" and he's gaining a ball every 14 days (training the 9th ball), I have another 19 y/old but a "1 star training" and he wins 1 ball every 17 days (training the 5th ball), so it appears even when they graduate a 4 star training player will keep training faster than a 1 star, but will the stars in training speed affect at what age will the player start training slower? I don't know yet... need to keep training a bunch of players before I can draw any meaningful conclusions, but is something to keep in mind as it will be useful to find out.

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 16-06-2020 11:23

[BET]

Hahaha wow I would give up one leg for the talent you have on display here. So you see I was right about the talent distribution being very unfair. I don't ever remember having players of this from the academy not because I sold them because they all max early in key skills. I don't know why this is hard for you to understand? MZ country doesn't get good youth players that train all the way to this level. I don't sell my players for selling sake I sell them because most of them max early. Of what use is a player who is max at 9 speed 6 stamina 6 pi 6 passing 9 shooting 7 ball control 4 tackling? All four of your players are welcome to naturalize and play for MZ country btw ;-)

darkline wrote:

I pretty much don't care about having players on the NT, I'm not training players for that purpose, I'm training players so I can fill the gaps that exist on the market, I won the Champions Cup with only 2 foreign players + own developed talent so you can definitively win cups without relying exclusively on the transfer market.



Is kind of typical for me, that's because I don't sell my talent for money, I keep most of the youths that have potential and I keep giving them camps until they're ready to play, don't care if they're 25 or even 26 years old.

Here's a few that are on my team and came from my youth academy:

Johnny Cash

Age: 44 (Retired)

John Bonham

Age: 46 (Retired)

Judas Priest

Age: 44 (Retired)

Ozzy Osbourne

Age: 42 (Retired)

Bonham was 10/10 on Speed/Stamina but due to age deteriorated, had 3/4 from my youth academy that sold last season due to deteriorations and of course, I have a bunch of 24/25 y/olds that I'm getting ready that should be similar to this guys in a few seasons.

And is not luck btw, I have my own system to get rid of the useless and keep only the players with potential, I will admit that I understood very well the YTC system we had in the past and it was easier for me to separate the good from the bad in the past, but still I'm getting decent results with the new scouting system.

Hahaha wow I would give up one leg for the talent you have on display here. So you see I was right about the talent distribution being very unfair. I don't ever remember having players of this from the academy not because I sold them because they all max early in key skills. I don't know why this is hard for you to understand? MZ country doesn't get good youth players that train all the way to this level. I don't sell my players for selling sake I sell them because most of them max early. Of what use is a player who is max at 9 speed 6 stamina 6 pi 6 passing 9 shooting 7 ball control 4 tackling?

All four of your players are welcome to naturalize and play for MZ country btw ;-)

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 16-06-2020 11:37

[BET]

Fair points made. But my decision was mainly made because of the poor youths I kept getting from the academy. They either trained quickly and maxed early or trained slowly and maxed poorly. After playing the game again in three years my best players have been a player with 10 speed 9 stamina 10 tackling with very good other secondaries ( he is in the NT but I sold him unmaxed early to avoid bankruptcy something I never do darkline :-), a second player who is with my team is 9 speed 7 stamina 7 pi 7 passing 9 shooting 6 heading 7 ball control and is training tackling and aerial balls currently. That's it. In three years these have been my best players from the academy. And this issues of bad youths cuts across to other clubs in the country so may be I'll have better luck with youth stars when I move to Sweden or Argentina or USA?

elusive wrote:

Completely agree good coaches are essential. Whilst I haven't studied the difference in training speeds between not coaching and having them, they clearly do contribute to faster training speeds.
As Darkline says, without coaches players WILL be under trained and when U21/U23 players are in such a demand, more than they used to be with the implementation of Uxx leagues/cups in the game, there is alot of transfer value to be missed if players aren't trained to their maximum potential. Yes coaches cost money each week but another way this is partially offset is knowing a players potential as soon as possible whilst they are younger can also save money in the long run. Decisions can be made earlier on players future, saving weeks of wages by releasing/selling them if they aren't going to cut it in your team.

If nobody in Scotland (for example) used coaches to train their players the pool of National Team would become even further behind countries where there are more users. Of course this is a secondary concern to most, our primary concern are our club teams.

Fair points made. But my decision was mainly made because of the poor youths I kept getting from the academy. They either trained quickly and maxed early or trained slowly and maxed poorly.

After playing the game again in three years my best players have been a player with 10 speed 9 stamina 10 tackling with very good other secondaries ( he is in the NT but I sold him unmaxed early to avoid bankruptcy something I never do darkline :-), a second player who is with my team is 9 speed 7 stamina 7 pi 7 passing 9 shooting 6 heading 7 ball control and is training tackling and aerial balls currently. That's it. In three years these have been my best players from the academy.

And this issues of bad youths cuts across to other clubs in the country so may be I'll have better luck with youth stars when I move to Sweden or Argentina or USA?

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 16-06-2020 11:46

[BET]

Fine I think I'll join you and give coaches another shot just to prove my point to darkline :-D

floodish wrote:

I will start with the 9 ball coaches system for a start and see my results

floodish wrote:

I will start with the 9 ball coaches system for a start and see my results

Fine I think I'll join you and give coaches another shot just to prove my point to darkline :-D

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 16-06-2020 11:50

[FLUSA]
President

Is not the talent distribution, is finding a player critical maxing early so you don't waste time training a poor player, I wouldn't know the maxings of the player in your example because he wouldn't get that far, I would automatically discard him as soon as he hit the 6 stamina... I swapped a player a few days ago, he came with 3 stamina, sent him to youth conditioning camp, won 3 balls in 6 days and maxed at 6 stamina, already swapped him for a new one. Is all in the numbers, the more players you train the better probabilities of getting a good player and to train more youths each season, you need to be able to find players with critical maxings and exchange them as fast as possible. With the new scout this is not as easy as before, so now I look at the HP/LP combo and I try to maxout stamina which IMO is the #1 dealbreakerIs not the talent distribution, is finding a player critical maxing early so you don't waste time training a poor player, I wouldn't know the maxings of the player in your example because he wouldn't get that far, I would automatically discard him as soon as he hit the 6 stamina... I swapped a player a few days ago, he came with 3 stamina, sent him to youth conditioning camp, won 3 balls in 6 days and maxed at 6 stamina, already swapped him for a new one.

Is all in the numbers, the more players you train the better probabilities of getting a good player and to train more youths each season, you need to be able to find players with critical maxings and exchange them as fast as possible.

With the new scout this is not as easy as before, so now I look at the HP/LP combo and I try to maxout stamina which IMO is the #1 dealbreaker

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By killerbeeez (NC) - 16-06-2020 12:25

[BET]

So would you discard a 7 speed player or keep him if his stamina hits 9 balls?

darkline wrote:

Is not the talent distribution, is finding a player critical maxing early so you don't waste time training a poor player, I wouldn't know the maxings of the player in your example because he wouldn't get that far, I would automatically discard him as soon as he hit the 6 stamina... I swapped a player a few days ago, he came with 3 stamina, sent him to youth conditioning camp, won 3 balls in 6 days and maxed at 6 stamina, already swapped him for a new one.

Is all in the numbers, the more players you train the better probabilities of getting a good player and to train more youths each season, you need to be able to find players with critical maxings and exchange them as fast as possible.

With the new scout this is not as easy as before, so now I look at the HP/LP combo and I try to maxout stamina which IMO is the #1 dealbreaker

So would you discard a 7 speed player or keep him if his stamina hits 9 balls?

Re: Coach Performance? is this checked somewhere

By darkline - 16-06-2020 14:23

[FLUSA]
President

Depends on total balls, training speed & HP/LP combo, some 7 speed players are worth training and some not.

killerbeeez wrote:

So would you discard a 7 speed player or keep him if his stamina hits 9 balls?

Depends on total balls, training speed & HP/LP combo, some 7 speed players are worth training and some not.

 

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