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U21 Official

By wrc76 - 09-06-2020 03:45

[RACING]
President

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Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 10-06-2020 00:48

[FLUSA]
President

And you know why he can spend 60 million USD on a team? Because that's the whole problem with the Uxx competitions.... you can buy a U21 60 million USD team and then sell the team when they turn 22 y/old for 90 million. Now on seniors, if you expend 60 million USD on a 28/29 y/old top team, you'll be able to sell them for 15 Million USD when they turn 30 y/old if you're lucky. But, that's also the reason why Uxx managers have tons of money and can expend $60M on players in the 1st place, because while managers with senior players usually buy players knowing they will be a partial or total monetary loss, Uxx teams buy players, use them and get a profit too. And the "exorbitant" $341K on salaries you mentioned for having a World Class U21 team is nothing, I expend 570 930 USD a week on salaries. It's impossible not to discuss the issue of income first before implementing a change in the game that will generate more income, unless they make them official in name but with "no income" so the status quo of the game finances is not changed, but if want a real official U21 competition the economics of it goes hand in hand, more income means more cash injected in the game, means Uxx managers will have even more money & advantages than they already have and will be able to accumulate even more money and in turn, it means that the prices of the players will go up as you'll have inflation, is just all pretty basic stuff.

sebistica1979 wrote:

I think that the important thing is to add, and why not add the u21 officials, and in any case go up one step the senior collections, with respect to the three juveniles. Another thing that I see that is perhaps underestimated is the expense in u21, but to give an example last season the team that won the Argentine national spent 60 million dollars on the team, and paid 341k of salary weekly, because for millionaire purchases youth salaries also skyrocket, and he could only win that cup.

And you know why he can spend 60 million USD on a team? Because that's the whole problem with the Uxx competitions.... you can buy a U21 60 million USD team and then sell the team when they turn 22 y/old for 90 million. Now on seniors, if you expend 60 million USD on a 28/29 y/old top team, you'll be able to sell them for 15 Million USD when they turn 30 y/old if you're lucky. But, that's also the reason why Uxx managers have tons of money and can expend $60M on players in the 1st place, because while managers with senior players usually buy players knowing they will be a partial or total monetary loss, Uxx teams buy players, use them and get a profit too.

And the "exorbitant" $341K on salaries you mentioned for having a World Class U21 team is nothing, I expend 570 930 USD a week on salaries.

pizzirrucho wrote:

I think it is unfair that the leaders of U21 teams cannot officially compete in the category that they are strong. Then you can discuss the issue of income, but why would it be a problem and nobody says it with current categories in force? It seems to me that we should not lose focus and spirit of the suggestion.

It's impossible not to discuss the issue of income first before implementing a change in the game that will generate more income, unless they make them official in name but with "no income" so the status quo of the game finances is not changed, but if want a real official U21 competition the economics of it goes hand in hand, more income means more cash injected in the game, means Uxx managers will have even more money & advantages than they already have and will be able to accumulate even more money and in turn, it means that the prices of the players will go up as you'll have inflation, is just all pretty basic stuff.

Re: U21 Official

By deleted_4033670 - 10-06-2020 00:48

i agree with de order. we need oficial cup U21i agree with de order. we need oficial cup U21

Odp: U21 Official

By fredek-krk - 10-06-2020 01:08

[AB]

I agree!!! we need all oficial cups U21I agree!!!

we need all oficial cups U21

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 10-06-2020 01:10

[FLUSA]
President

There's actually an option I can think off that will allow U21 official cups without having to modify the income, here's the calender of cups: [img]https://i.paste.pics/99DCK.png[/img] So currently, there are 11 official senior cups and 12 U18/23 cups, basically that means that you have 6 cups that have a Uxx version (6*2=12), so all you have to do is eliminate the Uxx version of 2 cups and add the U21 version to the 4 Uxx cups remaining, so the total of Uxx official cups will still be 12. It's just a matter of eliminating the Uxx versions of the Defenders cup and the Season Break cup, so the Uxx schedule of official cups will be: National Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23 Defenders Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23 Generations Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23 Season Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23 So the total number of official Uxx cups remains at 12 cups, economics are not affected and everyone happy. On top of that, keep the "prized cup" schedule as it is, so people that enjoy those cups can still enjoy them, is the perfect solution really as nothing really changes but you get U21 official cups without affecting any fundamental aspect of the game.There's actually an option I can think off that will allow U21 official cups without having to modify the income, here's the calender of cups:



So currently, there are 11 official senior cups and 12 U18/23 cups, basically that means that you have 6 cups that have a Uxx version (6*2=12), so all you have to do is eliminate the Uxx version of 2 cups and add the U21 version to the 4 Uxx cups remaining, so the total of Uxx official cups will still be 12.

It's just a matter of eliminating the Uxx versions of the Defenders cup and the Season Break cup, so the Uxx schedule of official cups will be:

National Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Defenders Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Generations Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Season Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23

So the total number of official Uxx cups remains at 12 cups, economics are not affected and everyone happy.

On top of that, keep the "prized cup" schedule as it is, so people that enjoy those cups can still enjoy them, is the perfect solution really as nothing really changes but you get U21 official cups without affecting any fundamental aspect of the game.

Re: U21 Official

By pizzirrucho - 10-06-2020 01:11

[S70-79]

I understand and share what you say, but is it a problem for the under 21 competition? Or is it a problem that we currently have and are not addressing. And that unfairly pays for the under 21 competition without being able to become official.

darkline wrote:

It's impossible not to discuss the issue of income first before implementing a change in the game that will generate more income, unless they make them official in name but with "no income" so the status quo of the game finances is not changed, but if want a real official U21 competition the economics of it goes hand in hand, more income means more cash injected in the game, means Uxx managers will have even more money & advantages than they already have and will be able to accumulate even more money and in turn, it means that the prices of the players will go up as you'll have inflation, is just all pretty basic stuff.

I understand and share what you say, but is it a problem for the under 21 competition? Or is it a problem that we currently have and are not addressing.

And that unfairly pays for the under 21 competition without being able to become official.

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 10-06-2020 01:21

[FLUSA]
President

@pizzirrucho It's a problem we already have and it's not being addressed but with that said, I just came to a solution to the problem on how to include U21 official cups without affecting the game. I think this might even help in addressing the core problem as the income will be more evenly distributed among three Uxx categories instead of two.@pizzirrucho

It's a problem we already have and it's not being addressed but with that said, I just came to a solution to the problem on how to include U21 official cups without affecting the game. I think this might even help in addressing the core problem as the income will be more evenly distributed among three Uxx categories instead of two.

Re: U21 Official

By sebistica1979 - 10-06-2020 01:22

[U18ARG]

I like the idea

darkline wrote:

There's actually an option I can think off that will allow U21 official cups without having to modify the income, here's the calender of cups:



So currently, there are 11 official senior cups and 12 U18/23 cups, basically that means that you have 6 cups that have a Uxx version (6*2=12), so all you have to do is eliminate the Uxx version of 2 cups and add the U21 version to the 4 Uxx cups remaining, so the total of Uxx official cups will still be 12.

It's just a matter of eliminating the Uxx versions of the Defenders cup and the Season Break cup, so the Uxx schedule of official cups will be:

National Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Defenders Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Generations Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Season Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23

So the total number of official Uxx cups remains at 12 cups, economics are not affected and everyone happy.

On top of that, keep the "prized cup" schedule as it is, so people that enjoy those cups can still enjoy them, is the perfect solution really as nothing really changes but you get U21 official cups without affecting any fundamental aspect of the game.

I like the idea

Re: U21 Official

By wrc76 - 10-06-2020 01:47

[RACING]
President

Adrian, that's a very similar part to the reality of the game. A youth who has a future Madrid pays fortunes and then if it does not work he lends it until he loses it ... In addition, the one who only plays seniors if he does not form his projects to sell and raise is losing a part of the game that is quite real too ... and There is nothing wrong with that. It is also in knowing how to train them, train them, etc. It is like in real clubs, I believe that the problem you pose is more related to those who do not compete and only play to collect. But that's not the fault of the Uxx.

darkline wrote:

And you know why he can spend 60 million USD on a team? Because that's the whole problem with the Uxx competitions.... you can buy a U21 60 million USD team and then sell the team when they turn 22 y/old for 90 million. Now on seniors, if you expend 60 million USD on a 28/29 y/old top team, you'll be able to sell them for 15 Million USD when they turn 30 y/old if you're lucky. But, that's also the reason why Uxx managers have tons of money and can expend $60M on players in the 1st place, because while managers with senior players usually buy players knowing they will be a partial or total monetary loss, Uxx teams buy players, use them and get a profit too.

And the "exorbitant" $341K on salaries you mentioned for having a World Class U21 team is nothing, I expend 570 930 USD a week on salaries.



It's impossible not to discuss the issue of income first before implementing a change in the game that will generate more income, unless they make them official in name but with "no income" so the status quo of the game finances is not changed, but if want a real official U21 competition the economics of it goes hand in hand, more income means more cash injected in the game, means Uxx managers will have even more money & advantages than they already have and will be able to accumulate even more money and in turn, it means that the prices of the players will go up as you'll have inflation, is just all pretty basic stuff.

Adrian, that's a very similar part to the reality of the game. A youth who has a future Madrid pays fortunes and then if it does not work he lends it until he loses it ... In addition, the one who only plays seniors if he does not form his projects to sell and raise is losing a part of the game that is quite real too ... and There is nothing wrong with that. It is also in knowing how to train them, train them, etc. It is like in real clubs, I believe that the problem you pose is more related to those who do not compete and only play to collect. But that's not the fault of the Uxx.

Re: U21 Official

By wrc76 - 10-06-2020 01:51

[RACING]
President

Well, I think there has to be a solution to stop postponing the u21 ... this could be one of them

darkline wrote:

@pizzirrucho

It's a problem we already have and it's not being addressed but with that said, I just came to a solution to the problem on how to include U21 official cups without affecting the game. I think this might even help in addressing the core problem as the income will be more evenly distributed among three Uxx categories instead of two.

Well, I think there has to be a solution to stop postponing the u21 ... this could be one of them

Re: U21 Official

By wrc76 - 10-06-2020 01:56

[RACING]
President

Well, I think there has to be a solution to stop postponing the u21 ... this could be one of them

darkline wrote:

There's actually an option I can think off that will allow U21 official cups without having to modify the income, here's the calender of cups:



So currently, there are 11 official senior cups and 12 U18/23 cups, basically that means that you have 6 cups that have a Uxx version (6*2=12), so all you have to do is eliminate the Uxx version of 2 cups and add the U21 version to the 4 Uxx cups remaining, so the total of Uxx official cups will still be 12.

It's just a matter of eliminating the Uxx versions of the Defenders cup and the Season Break cup, so the Uxx schedule of official cups will be:

National Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Defenders Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Generations Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Season Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23

So the total number of official Uxx cups remains at 12 cups, economics are not affected and everyone happy.

On top of that, keep the "prized cup" schedule as it is, so people that enjoy those cups can still enjoy them, is the perfect solution really as nothing really changes but you get U21 official cups without affecting any fundamental aspect of the game.

Well, I think there has to be a solution to stop postponing the u21 ... this could be one of them

Re: U21 Official

By deleted_8336769 - 10-06-2020 02:13

I completely agree. It would be great if these u21 competitions became official. Thank you.I completely agree. It would be great if these u21 competitions became official. Thank you.

Re: U21 Official

By saske17 - 10-06-2020 04:14

[YOUTUB]
President

https://youtu.be/iGBfCDSP0Qshttps://youtu.be/iGBfCDSP0Qs

Re: U21 Official

By mayya2 - 10-06-2020 04:21

[YOUTUB]

Me sumoMe sumo

Re: U21 Official

By rama777 (GA) - 10-06-2020 05:35

[BIF]
President

That seems like the perfect solution. The distribution would be more equitable between the categories and in reality nothing would change. You just have to add a new "prize cup" (I would make it senior), because U21 National is already on the calendar despite not being official.

darkline wrote:

There's actually an option I can think off that will allow U21 official cups without having to modify the income, here's the calender of cups:



So currently, there are 11 official senior cups and 12 U18/23 cups, basically that means that you have 6 cups that have a Uxx version (6*2=12), so all you have to do is eliminate the Uxx version of 2 cups and add the U21 version to the 4 Uxx cups remaining, so the total of Uxx official cups will still be 12.

It's just a matter of eliminating the Uxx versions of the Defenders cup and the Season Break cup, so the Uxx schedule of official cups will be:

National Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Defenders Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Generations Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23
Season Cup: Seniors/U18/U21/U23

So the total number of official Uxx cups remains at 12 cups, economics are not affected and everyone happy.

On top of that, keep the "prized cup" schedule as it is, so people that enjoy those cups can still enjoy them, is the perfect solution really as nothing really changes but you get U21 official cups without affecting any fundamental aspect of the game.

That seems like the perfect solution. The distribution would be more equitable between the categories and in reality nothing would change. You just have to add a new "prize cup" (I would make it senior), because U21 National is already on the calendar despite not being official.

Re: U21 Official

By katrask - 10-06-2020 06:13

[RIVER]

i agreei agree

Re: U21 Official

By rayado_ivan - 10-06-2020 07:06

[SPQR]

That’s a nice idea, but it wouldn’t fix the issue they complain about, though, because we would still get u-21 season cup, generations cup, division cup, etc...

rama777 wrote:

That seems like the perfect solution. The distribution would be more equitable between the categories and in reality nothing would change. You just have to add a new "prize cup" (I would make it senior), because U21 National is already on the calendar despite not being official.

That’s a nice idea, but it wouldn’t fix the issue they complain about, though, because we would still get u-21 season cup, generations cup, division cup, etc...

Re: U21 Official

By ortsac_14 (LA) - 10-06-2020 07:45

[JEDI]

Yes please, official u21 cup. At least the national cup!Yes please, official u21 cup. At least the national cup!

Re: U21 Official

By darknesman - 10-06-2020 09:31

[RIVER]

I AGREEI AGREE

Ri: U21 Official

By zagrosky (RA) - 10-06-2020 09:33

[FIMZ]
President

i agreei agree

Re: U21 Official

By petaca7 - 10-06-2020 15:32

[CUYO]

I agreeI agree

Re: U21 Official

By barracas07 - 10-06-2020 17:16

[RACING]

I agree!!!I agree!!!

Re: U21 Official

By haofeng1qaz - 10-06-2020 18:50

[AC米兰联盟]

it does not make sense. why not u17 u19 u20 u22 u25...?it does not make sense. why not u17 u19 u20 u22 u25...?

Re: U21 Official

By alianz99 - 10-06-2020 18:50

[FDEANT]

Utmärkt initiativ herrar förhoppningsvis en officiell verklighet u21Utmärkt initiativ herrar förhoppningsvis en officiell verklighet u21

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 10-06-2020 20:43

[FLUSA]
President

Maybe the difference is that U21 already exist and managers have been competing on U21 for many seasons already?

haofeng1qaz wrote:

it does not make sense. why not u17 u19 u20 u22 u25...?

Maybe the difference is that U21 already exist and managers have been competing on U21 for many seasons already?

Re: U21 Official

By rama777 (GA) - 10-06-2020 20:56

[BIF]
President

I just hope that since you’re GA, you're just kidding. We do not ask for new categories, only to officialize something that has existed for many years. Even as a youth league, U21 is older than U23

haofeng1qaz wrote:

it does not make sense. why not u17 u19 u20 u22 u25...?

I just hope that since you’re GA, you're just kidding. We do not ask for new categories, only to officialize something that has existed for many years. Even as a youth league, U21 is older than U23

Re: U21 Official

By tuviejaentanga69 - 10-06-2020 20:56

[AR-U21]

+1+1

Re: U21 Official

By tuviejaentanga69 - 10-06-2020 20:57

[AR-U21]

[b]I agree!!![/b]I agree!!!

Re: U21 Official

By rayado_ivan - 10-06-2020 20:58

[SPQR]

It does MAKE A LOT of sense, if you think about it. We are not creating a new category, we just want to give official status to something that ALREADY EXISTS

haofeng1qaz wrote:

it does not make sense. why not u17 u19 u20 u22 u25...?

It does MAKE A LOT of sense, if you think about it. We are not creating a new category, we just want to give official status to something that ALREADY EXISTS

Sv: U21 Official

By aik1891 (RA) - 10-06-2020 20:59

[MZ-VOD]
President

+1+1

Ce: U21 Official

By zerdogan - 10-06-2020 22:36

[RedKit]
President

+ 1+ 1

Re: U21 Official

By tetejuly - 10-06-2020 23:53

[RACING]

+1 We need U21 Official1!!+1

We need U21 Official1!!

Re: U21 Official

By du_mv - 11-06-2020 05:38

[US1-26]

At the beginning of the post I already said that I agree. Now, talking about the income issue that was talked about in the post, I read that the u21 team is bought for 60 million and sold for 80 or 90 million, but that is not true. Very strong teams u21 are very expensive, and there are many important maximizations, which makes their value drop. The great truth is that teams in the major league or first division always take a loss when selling players aged 22, compared to the price paid at age 20 or 21. I say this based on the last 4 seasons that I play u21, and I've been having losses season after season. People who say otherwise, it is because they do not play the category u21 in high performance at an international level. Another point to be talked about, is the income generated from the official cups in u23, and that according to some people said, that if it were the same income in u21, the teams that play uxx would earn more money in the official cups compared to the teams that seniors play. I tell you that 90% of the teams that seriously play the u21 category, do not seriously play the u23 category, as there is no way to pay the expenses of such a large squad at a high level weekly, that is impossible. So, whoever plays u21 for real, does not play u23 seriously, and whoever plays u23 for real, does not play u21 seriously. In other words, it does not make sense to decrease the income of official Cups that already exist in u23, to add official cups u21. The income generated by the cups must be the same for all categories. And each manager must choose which category will be his main one, and be happy with that choice. Everyone has the right to that choice. We all spend money on this game and we should be treated equally.At the beginning of the post I already said that I agree.

Now, talking about the income issue that was talked about in the post, I read that the u21 team is bought for 60 million and sold for 80 or 90 million, but that is not true.
Very strong teams u21 are very expensive, and there are many important maximizations, which makes their value drop. The great truth is that teams in the major league or first division always take a loss when selling players aged 22, compared to the price paid at age 20 or 21.
I say this based on the last 4 seasons that I play u21, and I've been having losses season after season.

People who say otherwise, it is because they do not play the category u21 in high performance at an international level.


Another point to be talked about, is the income generated from the official cups in u23, and that according to some people said, that if it were the same income in u21, the teams that play uxx would earn more money in the official cups compared to the teams that seniors play. I tell you that 90% of the teams that seriously play the u21 category, do not seriously play the u23 category, as there is no way to pay the expenses of such a large squad at a high level weekly, that is impossible.
So, whoever plays u21 for real, does not play u23 seriously, and whoever plays u23 for real, does not play u21 seriously. In other words, it does not make sense to decrease the income of official Cups that already exist in u23, to add official cups u21. The income generated by the cups must be the same for all categories. And each manager must choose which category will be his main one, and be happy with that choice.

Everyone has the right to that choice. We all spend money on this game and we should be treated equally.

Ant: U21 Official

By b2ooba - 11-06-2020 08:26

Can we open another topic to add +1 on this post as well ? +1 you are totally rightCan we open another topic to add +1 on this post as well ?

+1 you are totally right

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 11-06-2020 11:02

[FLUSA]
President

I don't like saying something is true or untrue without facts, So I went ahead to prove or disprove what I'm saying and since you're brazilian, I picked the current leader on the U21 Brazilian Top League for my experiment, a team named Xerem Academy and this is how he fared on players sold on the period going from Jan 6th to April 10th, so this is how much profit/loss he made on a 3 month period which covers last season, I only ignored transfers in which no profit/loss were made or it was negligible. Emerson Leite -300 000 Ademar Torres +400 000 Rui Araujo +600 000 Fernandao Donatello - 90 000 Leonardo Mello +160 000 Geovanni Smith +1 100 000 Vanderson Mota +180 000 Luis Maciel -150 000 Nando Correa +500 000 Belo Leiva +100 000 Dave DiBartolo - 500 000 Valdo Queiroz +50 000 Marek Juraka +250 000 Vito Mangueira +500 000 Marcelino Meireles +500 000 Luis Baptista +600 000 Andrew Kutubaev +500 000 Giussepe Donaldson -50 000 Andre Lopez +1 000 000 Frank Bittencourt -150 000 Flavinho Santos +850 000 Di Santo +2 200 000 Duarte de Toledo +213 000 Marcus de Amorim +200 000 Dino Vale +7 100 000 Anisio de Almeida +50 000 Tarcisio Drasena +1 800 000 Naldo Godoi -150 000 Dario Cunha +500 000 Romario Gol +500 000 Tibuercio Bertaci -500 000 Anselmo Prado +80 000 Cauan Trevisan +700 000 Cesar Drasena +100 000 Denilson Vander +200 000 Sadri Tukelay +1 000 000 Denilson Borges +1 200 000 So for this particular team, taking in account the players he sold at a loss and the players he sold with a profit, he ended up making a profit on players he bought to compete and then sold, for a grand total of $21.143.000 on one season, so I'll say my rough estimate that a U21 manager with no senior team makes about $20M to $30M a season seems to be spot on.

du_mv wrote:

Now, talking about the income issue that was talked about in the post, I read that the u21 team is bought for 60 million and sold for 80 or 90 million, but that is not true.

I don't like saying something is true or untrue without facts, So I went ahead to prove or disprove what I'm saying and since you're brazilian, I picked the current leader on the U21 Brazilian Top League for my experiment, a team named Xerem Academy and this is how he fared on players sold on the period going from Jan 6th to April 10th, so this is how much profit/loss he made on a 3 month period which covers last season, I only ignored transfers in which no profit/loss were made or it was negligible.

Emerson Leite -300 000
Ademar Torres +400 000
Rui Araujo +600 000
Fernandao Donatello - 90 000
Leonardo Mello +160 000
Geovanni Smith +1 100 000
Vanderson Mota +180 000
Luis Maciel -150 000
Nando Correa +500 000
Belo Leiva +100 000
Dave DiBartolo - 500 000
Valdo Queiroz +50 000
Marek Juraka +250 000
Vito Mangueira +500 000
Marcelino Meireles +500 000
Luis Baptista +600 000
Andrew Kutubaev +500 000
Giussepe Donaldson -50 000
Andre Lopez +1 000 000
Frank Bittencourt -150 000
Flavinho Santos +850 000
Di Santo +2 200 000
Duarte de Toledo +213 000
Marcus de Amorim +200 000
Dino Vale +7 100 000
Anisio de Almeida +50 000
Tarcisio Drasena +1 800 000
Naldo Godoi -150 000
Dario Cunha +500 000
Romario Gol +500 000
Tibuercio Bertaci -500 000
Anselmo Prado +80 000
Cauan Trevisan +700 000
Cesar Drasena +100 000
Denilson Vander +200 000
Sadri Tukelay +1 000 000
Denilson Borges +1 200 000

So for this particular team, taking in account the players he sold at a loss and the players he sold with a profit, he ended up making a profit on players he bought to compete and then sold, for a grand total of $21.143.000 on one season, so I'll say my rough estimate that a U21 manager with no senior team makes about $20M to $30M a season seems to be spot on.

Edited: 11-06-2020 11:03
Total edits: 1

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 11-06-2020 11:08

[FLUSA]
President

In any case, this is already solved by implementing the cup calender I proposed...

du_mv wrote:

In other words, it does not make sense to decrease the income of official Cups that already exist in u23, to add official cups u21.y.

In any case, this is already solved by implementing the cup calender I proposed...

Re: U21 Official

By masterkike - 11-06-2020 12:27

[FCMZ]

+1+1

Ri: U21 Official

By goalsaurus (LA) - 11-06-2020 12:56

Am I the only one who disagree? 😥Am I the only one who disagree? 😥

Re: U21 Official

By wrc76 - 11-06-2020 13:38

[RACING]
President

Adrian, it is clear that this team has worked well and had profits ... but to make it really complete it would be necessary to see how many of the 12 teams in that league obtained profit ... I am 4th in the league in my country and if you analyze me like this , you are going to grieve and even make me a loan :)

darkline wrote:

I don't like saying something is true or untrue without facts, So I went ahead to prove or disprove what I'm saying and since you're brazilian, I picked the current leader on the U21 Brazilian Top League for my experiment, a team named Xerem Academy and this is how he fared on players sold on the period going from Jan 6th to April 10th, so this is how much profit/loss he made on a 3 month period which covers last season, I only ignored transfers in which no profit/loss were made or it was negligible.

Emerson Leite -300 000
Ademar Torres +400 000
Rui Araujo +600 000
Fernandao Donatello - 90 000
Leonardo Mello +160 000
Geovanni Smith +1 100 000
Vanderson Mota +180 000
Luis Maciel -150 000
Nando Correa +500 000
Belo Leiva +100 000
Dave DiBartolo - 500 000
Valdo Queiroz +50 000
Marek Juraka +250 000
Vito Mangueira +500 000
Marcelino Meireles +500 000
Luis Baptista +600 000
Andrew Kutubaev +500 000
Giussepe Donaldson -50 000
Andre Lopez +1 000 000
Frank Bittencourt -150 000
Flavinho Santos +850 000
Di Santo +2 200 000
Duarte de Toledo +213 000
Marcus de Amorim +200 000
Dino Vale +7 100 000
Anisio de Almeida +50 000
Tarcisio Drasena +1 800 000
Naldo Godoi -150 000
Dario Cunha +500 000
Romario Gol +500 000
Tibuercio Bertaci -500 000
Anselmo Prado +80 000
Cauan Trevisan +700 000
Cesar Drasena +100 000
Denilson Vander +200 000
Sadri Tukelay +1 000 000
Denilson Borges +1 200 000

So for this particular team, taking in account the players he sold at a loss and the players he sold with a profit, he ended up making a profit on players he bought to compete and then sold, for a grand total of $21.143.000 on one season, so I'll say my rough estimate that a U21 manager with no senior team makes about $20M to $30M a season seems to be spot on.

Adrian, it is clear that this team has worked well and had profits ... but to make it really complete it would be necessary to see how many of the 12 teams in that league obtained profit ... I am 4th in the league in my country and if you analyze me like this , you are going to grieve and even make me a loan :)

Re: U21 Official

By matiassales - 11-06-2020 13:52

[FDFDF]

@wrc76 What is profit? Taking a season from a manager to want to argue that something cannot be created is totally irrational. And mistakenly, by the way, forget that between the purchase and sale value, there are several costs involved such as training ground, salary, coaches, transfer fees and taxes. When we put this on paper, we see an abyss between what we imagine has profited and what has really profited. And I go further ... If making money is so easy in this category, why aren't all teams rich? To want to generalize a situation without the minimum knowledge of the category is stupid. I think the U21 category is very expensive and some official cups could balance the balance between what is invested and the return on resellers.@wrc76
What is profit? Taking a season from a manager to want to argue that something cannot be created is totally irrational. And mistakenly, by the way, forget that between the purchase and sale value, there are several costs involved such as training ground, salary, coaches, transfer fees and taxes. When we put this on paper, we see an abyss between what we imagine has profited and what has really profited. And I go further ... If making money is so easy in this category, why aren't all teams rich? To want to generalize a situation without the minimum knowledge of the category is stupid. I think the U21 category is very expensive and some official cups could balance the balance between what is invested and the return on resellers.

Odp: U21 Official

By hulku - 11-06-2020 14:05

[ELITE!]

I agreeI agree

Re: U21 Official

By wrc76 - 11-06-2020 14:16

[RACING]
President

Friend, it seems to me that your message was for Adrian, I only replied to him, arguing something similar to the ones you mention

matiassales wrote:

@wrc76
What is profit? Taking a season from a manager to want to argue that something cannot be created is totally irrational. And mistakenly, by the way, forget that between the purchase and sale value, there are several costs involved such as training ground, salary, coaches, transfer fees and taxes. When we put this on paper, we see an abyss between what we imagine has profited and what has really profited. And I go further ... If making money is so easy in this category, why aren't all teams rich? To want to generalize a situation without the minimum knowledge of the category is stupid. I think the U21 category is very expensive and some official cups could balance the balance between what is invested and the return on resellers.

Friend, it seems to me that your message was for Adrian, I only replied to him, arguing something similar to the ones you mention

Odp: U21 Official

By buncol - 11-06-2020 14:28

[POLSKA]

I agreeI agree

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 11-06-2020 14:48

[FLUSA]
President

This are my weekly expenses: Player salaries 570 930 USD Staff salaries 208 369 USD Stadium upkeep 33 000 USD Facilities upkeep 12 503 USD Youth Academy costs 46 000 USD Total 870 802 USD You're telling me those expenses are comparable to managing just a U21 team? I'll be surprised but go ahead and post your weekly expenses... And this season alone, I'm losing to retirements a player named Otto Lindhom that I bought for 2 519 893 and extended 3 times at about $250K each time, I'm also going to lose about $1.5M on the sale of a player I bouhgt 3 seasons ago: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=players&pid=198548471&tid=139824 Of course, not only I have to pay higher salaries and deal with retirements and deteriorations, I'm also have the expenses you mentioned such as there are several costs involved such as training ground, salary, coaches, transfer fees and taxes.... because maybe you didn't know, but they don't wave any of those fees for senior teams....

matiassales wrote:

@wrc76
What is profit? Taking a season from a manager to want to argue that something cannot be created is totally irrational. And mistakenly, by the way, forget that between the purchase and sale value, there are several costs involved such as training ground, salary, coaches, transfer fees and taxes. When we put this on paper, we see an abyss between what we imagine has profited and what has really profited. And I go further ... If making money is so easy in this category, why aren't all teams rich? To want to generalize a situation without the minimum knowledge of the category is stupid. I think the U21 category is very expensive and some official cups could balance the balance between what is invested and the return on resellers.

This are my weekly expenses:

Player salaries 570 930 USD
Staff salaries 208 369 USD
Stadium upkeep 33 000 USD
Facilities upkeep 12 503 USD
Youth Academy costs 46 000 USD
Total 870 802 USD

You're telling me those expenses are comparable to managing just a U21 team? I'll be surprised but go ahead and post your weekly expenses...

And this season alone, I'm losing to retirements a player named Otto Lindhom that I bought for 2 519 893 and extended 3 times at about $250K each time, I'm also going to lose about $1.5M on the sale of a player I bouhgt 3 seasons ago: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=players&pid=198548471&tid=139824

Of course, not only I have to pay higher salaries and deal with retirements and deteriorations, I'm also have the expenses you mentioned such as there are several costs involved such as training ground, salary, coaches, transfer fees and taxes.... because maybe you didn't know, but they don't wave any of those fees for senior teams....

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 11-06-2020 14:50

[FLUSA]
President

And who says they're not, I know many that are... ever wonder how some teams are throwing vasts amounts of money on players that are not really worth it? Funny thing is... I'm not against official U21 cups and I'm the only one that proposed something that actually has any chance of being accepted by crew. Not sure why you get so mad when I suggest that managers without senior teams accumulate more money, is just a basic fact.... I mean, even managers with senior teams like myself have to train players for the sole reason of getting a profit on the market just so we can compensate for the loses created by mantaining a senior team, so it's easy to get a rough idea of how much money I would make if I didn't had a senior team and instead I kept a Uxx team that has lower salaries, no retirents or deteriorations and sold it out every season for a profit.

matiassales wrote:

And I go further ... If making money is so easy in this category, why aren't all teams rich?

And who says they're not, I know many that are... ever wonder how some teams are throwing vasts amounts of money on players that are not really worth it?

Funny thing is... I'm not against official U21 cups and I'm the only one that proposed something that actually has any chance of being accepted by crew. Not sure why you get so mad when I suggest that managers without senior teams accumulate more money, is just a basic fact.... I mean, even managers with senior teams like myself have to train players for the sole reason of getting a profit on the market just so we can compensate for the loses created by mantaining a senior team, so it's easy to get a rough idea of how much money I would make if I didn't had a senior team and instead I kept a Uxx team that has lower salaries, no retirents or deteriorations and sold it out every season for a profit.

Edited: 11-06-2020 14:56
Total edits: 2

Re: U21 Official

By wrc76 - 11-06-2020 14:56

[RACING]
President

I think we are entering another topic there, there are hundreds of teams playing seniors with their u18 without paying almost weekly wages ... nor are uxx competing ... they are just playing to collect money ... it would be necessary to force with some rule that in seniors you play with mini-professional players ... but that's not the fault of the Uxx

darkline wrote:

And who says they're not, I know many that are... ever wonder how some teams are throwing vasts amounts of money on players that are not really worth it?

I think we are entering another topic there, there are hundreds of teams playing seniors with their u18 without paying almost weekly wages ... nor are uxx competing ... they are just playing to collect money ... it would be necessary to force with some rule that in seniors you play with mini-professional players ... but that's not the fault of the Uxx

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 11-06-2020 15:04

[FLUSA]
President

And that's another perfect example, if you have only a U18 team your expenses are minimum, you have free TCs, $44K in salaries if you have a full academy and minimum staff as you'll only need coaches for youths, then sell the players when they graduate for a profit and you're all set to accumulate money. All I'm saying is that this happens, is a fact and denying is not logical as all the data supports what I'm saying. In any case I'm not proposing at this time any changes in regard to income, if I wanted to do that I'd create another thread. Initially I mentioned the income because there is no way to add extra Uxx cups to the official schedule but since then, I found a way and posted a way to add them and at the same time distribute Uxx income a bit fairer among the different categories.

wrc76 wrote:

I think we are entering another topic there, there are hundreds of teams playing seniors with their u18 without paying almost weekly wages ... nor are uxx competing ... they are just playing to collect money ... it would be necessary to force with some rule that in seniors you play with mini-professional players ... but that's not the fault of the Uxx

And that's another perfect example, if you have only a U18 team your expenses are minimum, you have free TCs, $44K in salaries if you have a full academy and minimum staff as you'll only need coaches for youths, then sell the players when they graduate for a profit and you're all set to accumulate money.

All I'm saying is that this happens, is a fact and denying is not logical as all the data supports what I'm saying. In any case I'm not proposing at this time any changes in regard to income, if I wanted to do that I'd create another thread.

Initially I mentioned the income because there is no way to add extra Uxx cups to the official schedule but since then, I found a way and posted a way to add them and at the same time distribute Uxx income a bit fairer among the different categories.

Re: U21 Official

By sebistica1979 - 11-06-2020 15:10

[U18ARG]

1166/5000 But a query! In those $ 570 paychecks, is it just for the senior team? I think that speaking in depth about the profit that can be made and the one you refer to from the top Brazilian team is a case that there may be (and there are those who win a little less, those who are tied and those who will lose too ) but it depends not only on playing the category but on training skills, market knowledge and high spending also on good coaches and training camps, something that is open to all managers even if they are not fully dedicated to competing in the category. In fact it is a market that encompasses not only those who compete at a high level, but many managers, even those who dedicate themselves to senior at a high level, train players to sell, because if they have the ability and some luck to sell a player to beginning of his 21 is paid more generally than at 22 ("generally") The U18 category is a category that is open to all and once established any manager competes at a high level if he has the skills and proposes it so we would be there under the same conditions managers dedicated to senior or u21.1166/5000
But a query! In those $ 570 paychecks, is it just for the senior team? I think that speaking in depth about the profit that can be made and the one you refer to from the top Brazilian team is a case that there may be (and there are those who win a little less, those who are tied and those who will lose too ) but it depends not only on playing the category but on training skills, market knowledge and high spending also on good coaches and training camps, something that is open to all managers even if they are not fully dedicated to competing in the category. In fact it is a market that encompasses not only those who compete at a high level, but many managers, even those who dedicate themselves to senior at a high level, train players to sell, because if they have the ability and some luck to sell a player to beginning of his 21 is paid more generally than at 22 ("generally") The U18 category is a category that is open to all and once established any manager competes at a high level if he has the skills and proposes it so we would be there under the same conditions managers dedicated to senior or u21.

Re: U21 Official

By wrc76 - 11-06-2020 15:14

[RACING]
President

I agree with your proposal, I think we all are here because finally after so long we would be being officially and deservedly recognized for everything exposed in the thread ... the owners of the game do not lose money, they can even increase their collection, and they can also add the U21 World League by barely increasing the cost of the pass to the World Leagues as the Swedish friends are proposing in their forum ... therefore, we would all be happy ... that is why friends of the Crew. .. speaking in soccer terms, we have left itching for them to convert the goal ... we are all in the stands waiting to shout it out! Let's go with this!

darkline wrote:

And that's another perfect example, if you have only a U18 team your expenses are minimum, you have free TCs, $44K in salaries if you have a full academy and minimum staff as you'll only need coaches for youths, then sell the players when they graduate for a profit and you're all set to accumulate money.

All I'm saying is that this happens, is a fact and denying is not logical as all the data supports what I'm saying. In any case I'm not proposing at this time any changes in regard to income, if I wanted to do that I'd create another thread.

Initially I mentioned the income because there is no way to add extra Uxx cups to the official schedule but since then, I found a way and posted a way to add them and at the same time distribute Uxx income a bit fairer among the different categories.

I agree with your proposal, I think we all are here because finally after so long we would be being officially and deservedly recognized for everything exposed in the thread ... the owners of the game do not lose money, they can even increase their collection, and they can also add the U21 World League by barely increasing the cost of the pass to the World Leagues as the Swedish friends are proposing in their forum ... therefore, we would all be happy ... that is why friends of the Crew. .. speaking in soccer terms, we have left itching for them to convert the goal ... we are all in the stands waiting to shout it out!
Let's go with this!

Re: U21 Official

By darkline - 11-06-2020 15:16

[FLUSA]
President

Mostly? Yes, I pay salaries ranging from $20.000 to $30.000 USD for each of my senior players + since we don't have a local market, I'm forced to keep some players that I don't use but I need to keep training for the future, not only paying salaries on them but also paying about $150K/$200K on TC each player... I have 5/6 that fit that description at the moment.

sebistica1979 wrote:

1166/5000
But a query! In those $ 570 paychecks, is it just for the senior team?

Mostly? Yes, I pay salaries ranging from $20.000 to $30.000 USD for each of my senior players + since we don't have a local market, I'm forced to keep some players that I don't use but I need to keep training for the future, not only paying salaries on them but also paying about $150K/$200K on TC each player... I have 5/6 that fit that description at the moment.

Re: U21 Official

By sebistica1979 - 11-06-2020 15:17

[U18ARG]

Yes, I also liked that idea that you proposed, and I think it can solve the issue that we are raising here.

darkline wrote:

And that's another perfect example, if you have only a U18 team your expenses are minimum, you have free TCs, $44K in salaries if you have a full academy and minimum staff as you'll only need coaches for youths, then sell the players when they graduate for a profit and you're all set to accumulate money.

All I'm saying is that this happens, is a fact and denying is not logical as all the data supports what I'm saying. In any case I'm not proposing at this time any changes in regard to income, if I wanted to do that I'd create another thread.

Initially I mentioned the income because there is no way to add extra Uxx cups to the official schedule but since then, I found a way and posted a way to add them and at the same time distribute Uxx income a bit fairer among the different categories.

Yes, I also liked that idea that you proposed, and I think it can solve the issue that we are raising here.

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