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Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By nanyc8 - 19-04-2020 12:15

Its too boring watching 3D wing tactic matches. The ball is flying all the time. And nothing to do against that. The ball goes with diabolic precision to the winger who controls the incoming pass with incredible skill (just like a handball game), and then he runs close to the side line to the bottom and centers the ball to the header, 20, 30 times. If you have one or two good defenders in that wing, they give back the ball with the head and lets start again over and over. What is the fun? The wing tactic wins, just that. In the other hand, your fantastic top striker gets 16 times totally free with the ball in front the opponent Keeper and gets,, nothing. Is this realistic? If you played fotball anytime, you know how hard is controlling an aerial ball coming from 30 meters, but in this simulator, any 16th years youth can do it easily in is first game even with 0 in Control skill, just like in Volley or handball. Really, really boring. (Muy muy aburrido in spanish). Good football is played with the ball on the grass. Please, think about that. Thanks!Its too boring watching 3D wing tactic matches. The ball is flying all the time. And nothing to do against that. The ball goes with diabolic precision to the winger who controls the incoming pass with incredible skill (just like a handball game), and then he runs close to the side line to the bottom and centers the ball to the header, 20, 30 times. If you have one or two good defenders in that wing, they give back the ball with the head and lets start again over and over. What is the fun? The wing tactic wins, just that. In the other hand, your fantastic top striker gets 16 times totally free with the ball in front the opponent Keeper and gets,, nothing. Is this realistic? If you played fotball anytime, you know how hard is controlling an aerial ball coming from 30 meters, but in this simulator, any 16th years youth can do it easily in is first game even with 0 in Control skill, just like in Volley or handball. Really, really boring. (Muy muy aburrido in spanish). Good football is played with the ball on the grass. Please, think about that. Thanks!

 

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Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By chucky06 - 19-04-2020 13:35

[AUSNZ]
President

The game originally was a management simulated game without the ability to watch in 3D. Watching in 3D just shows the huge flaws in the current simulator. Throw ins that always go to the opposition, wing play over powered V short passing, players 1-1 with the keeper and pass backwards etc. At the end of the day it’s never going to be perfect. I don’t watch 3D ever though and don’t see the point to it. Until a new simulator all these things will keep happening and there’s no plans for a new one anytime soon.The game originally was a management simulated game without the ability to watch in 3D. Watching in 3D just shows the huge flaws in the current simulator. Throw ins that always go to the opposition, wing play over powered V short passing, players 1-1 with the keeper and pass backwards etc.

At the end of the day it’s never going to be perfect. I don’t watch 3D ever though and don’t see the point to it. Until a new simulator all these things will keep happening and there’s no plans for a new one anytime soon.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By nanyc8 - 19-04-2020 13:50

Yes. I have the impression of being watching the same match for years. The only difference is the colour of shirts

chucky06 wrote:

At the end of the day it’s never going to be perfect. I don’t watch 3D ever though and don’t see the point to it.

Yes. I have the impression of being watching the same match for years. The only difference is the colour of shirts

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By bawru - 01-05-2020 01:04

Man, I have exactly the same opinion. The game has become too boring. It's ridiculous how effectively can be one poor tactic scheme like that. I never play with wing tactic because I think the fun of this game should be when you make the difference where you put your players, how they have the skills to pass and control the ball, how they can reach the opponent and steal the ball. That's football! I know I will lose 90% of the matches I play against one good team playing with wing tactics, and I used to be very upset about that. Because that could have been a match very well played. But in this case, the other team can eventually win by a large margin, and that does not represent the comparision between both teams. Now I just ignore these matches. Unfortunately, if this continues like this, I will leave managerzone soon. I lost the interest seen matches like that. (And I play MZ since 2003!) And that's nothing about watching on 3D or not. It's about the result of a wing tactic been so unrealistic.And that's nothing about watching on 3D or not. It's about the result of a wing tactic been so unrealistic.Man, I have exactly the same opinion. The game has become too boring. It's ridiculous how effectively can be one poor tactic scheme like that. I never play with wing tactic because I think the fun of this game should be when you make the difference where you put your players, how they have the skills to pass and control the ball, how they can reach the opponent and steal the ball. That's football! I know I will lose 90% of the matches I play against one good team playing with wing tactics, and I used to be very upset about that. Because that could have been a match very well played. But in this case, the other team can eventually win by a large margin, and that does not represent the comparision between both teams. Now I just ignore these matches. Unfortunately, if this continues like this, I will leave managerzone soon. I lost the interest seen matches like that. (And I play MZ since 2003!)
And that's nothing about watching on 3D or not. It's about the result of a wing tactic been so unrealistic.And that's nothing about watching on 3D or not. It's about the result of a wing tactic been so unrealistic.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By deleted_1658594 - 01-05-2020 11:35

wrong. there are several tactical options for sp-teams to stop wingers (hint: a 3-line-defense is not one of them) Until ~2009 MZ was a pure tiki-taka-massacre (wings/long balls did not work at all), you would have loved it. Two heaps of players running into each other in a small strip close to the center...THAT was boring. Football is about free spaces. If I am not able to close them, I will loose... The SIM is far from perfect, but the crew should not change anything for the worse.

nanyc8 wrote:

The wing tactic wins, just that.

wrong.

there are several tactical options for sp-teams to stop wingers (hint: a 3-line-defense is not one of them)

nanyc8 wrote:

Good football is played with the ball on the grass.

Until ~2009 MZ was a pure tiki-taka-massacre (wings/long balls did not work at all), you would have loved it. Two heaps of players running into each other in a small strip close to the center...THAT was boring.

Football is about free spaces. If I am not able to close them, I will loose...

The SIM is far from perfect, but the crew should not change anything for the worse.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By nanyc8 - 01-05-2020 12:07

I agree. Playing Wings has a clear advantage. More goals, much more precision in passes. Tackles and passes at the same time. I can't understand how a midfield player can miss again and again (8 balls in passes) a pass at a distance of 3 meters directed to a striker with 10 balls in ball control. Anyway, I will keep playing short even knowing that I will lose, because I love good football.

bawru wrote:

And that's nothing about watching on 3D or not. It's about the result of a wing tactic been so unrealistic.

I agree. Playing Wings has a clear advantage. More goals, much more precision in passes. Tackles and passes at the same time. I can't understand how a midfield player can miss again and again (8 balls in passes) a pass at a distance of 3 meters directed to a striker with 10 balls in ball control. Anyway, I will keep playing short even knowing that I will lose, because I love good football.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By nanyc8 - 01-05-2020 12:35

Allright, And how about a balance between the three tactics and then you choose the right players for the tactic you prefer to play? Would that be worse or better than what we have now? About free spaces you say: In short passing, the striker runs away through the center, gets 16 times totally free with the ball in front the opponent Keeper and gets,, nothing. These things should at least be considered if we want to improve the game. It is my humble opinion. Thank you.

curarex wrote:

Football is about free spaces. If I am not able to close them, I will loose...

The SIM is far from perfect, but the crew should not change anything for the worse.

Allright, And how about a balance between the three tactics and then you choose the right players for the tactic you prefer to play? Would that be worse or better than what we have now?
About free spaces you say: In short passing, the striker runs away through the center, gets 16 times totally free with the ball in front the opponent Keeper and gets,, nothing. These things should at least be considered if we want to improve the game. It is my humble opinion. Thank you.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By deleted_1658594 - 01-05-2020 13:38

Thats the exact status quo. If i would play SP against your team, I would loose (my average passing skill is ~6.5), and if you would play wings/long balls against my team, you would loose (my average aerial passing skill is ~8.5). You say, the skills do not matter in wing tactics? Believe me they do, for example a winger without good ball control is useless. he loses every situation against a decent wingback. Playing against a strong SP-Team (attacking my central defense) sometimes feels like their attacks go through without any resistance. exact the same as you feel on your wings. Maybe that is an advantage of wing tactics. The heading seems to be a little more efficient, than the breakthroughs in short passing.

nanyc8 wrote:

... and then you choose the right players for the tactic you prefer to play?

Thats the exact status quo. If i would play SP against your team, I would loose (my average passing skill is ~6.5), and if you would play wings/long balls against my team, you would loose (my average aerial passing skill is ~8.5).

You say, the skills do not matter in wing tactics? Believe me they do, for example a winger without good ball control is useless. he loses every situation against a decent wingback.

nanyc8 wrote:

...how about a balance between the three tactics...

Playing against a strong SP-Team (attacking my central defense) sometimes feels like their attacks go through without any resistance. exact the same as you feel on your wings.

nanyc8 wrote:

In short passing, the striker runs away through the center, gets 16 times totally free with the ball in front the opponent Keeper and gets, nothing.

Maybe that is an advantage of wing tactics. The heading seems to be a little more efficient, than the breakthroughs in short passing.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By nanyc8 - 01-05-2020 14:37

True. Are you a beginner and you want to win? Easy: Spend your money in a good winger, a good striker in heading and a decent goalkeeper. Forget the manuals, guides and all the rest. You don't need to see the ball jumping 40 times from one side of the pitch to the other because you are going to get bored, so, dont spend time in watching 3D, use your smartphone five minutes a day and that's it. I think there are people here who want more than that from MZ.I don't know how to express it better. Just ideas.

curarex wrote:

Maybe that is an advantage of wing tactics. The heading seems to be a little more efficient, than the breakthroughs in short passing.

True. Are you a beginner and you want to win? Easy: Spend your money in a good winger, a good striker in heading and a decent goalkeeper. Forget the manuals, guides and all the rest. You don't need to see the ball jumping 40 times from one side of the pitch to the other because you are going to get bored, so, dont spend time in watching 3D, use your smartphone five minutes a day and that's it.

I think there are people here who want more than that from MZ.I don't know how to express it better. Just ideas.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By bawru - 02-05-2020 18:00

I think we all agree here that the wing tactic works a lot in this game. Especially if you have players with very good skills in ball control, long pass and heading. What nanyc8 is trying to say, and I agree, is that this is not like real football is played. And that's disappointing to who wants to play MZ like a football simulator. We can just admit that this simulator is made for wing tactics to win games more easily and move on. That's ok. But it's not even trying to simulate a football game like it's played in the real world. I know that insisting on not playing with wing tactics I have a small chance to advance to the top leagues. That's why I said before that I'm thinking about leaving MZ. But that's ok. This game used to be more fun in other years and I have enjoyed a lot.I think we all agree here that the wing tactic works a lot in this game. Especially if you have players with very good skills in ball control, long pass and heading.
What nanyc8 is trying to say, and I agree, is that this is not like real football is played. And that's disappointing to who wants to play MZ like a football simulator.
We can just admit that this simulator is made for wing tactics to win games more easily and move on. That's ok. But it's not even trying to simulate a football game like it's played in the real world.
I know that insisting on not playing with wing tactics I have a small chance to advance to the top leagues. That's why I said before that I'm thinking about leaving MZ. But that's ok. This game used to be more fun in other years and I have enjoyed a lot.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By deleted_1658594 - 02-05-2020 20:35

My intention is not to defend the SIM by any means necessary, everyone would welcome an improvement. But the assertions were SO wrong, I had to comment. I played short passing most of the time here at MZ and I believe, I can compare both systems. Every manager being here for years should be able to do that. one example: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1151583863&tid=848054 This is a match against a more or less equally strong opponent (sometimes I beat them and sometimes they beat me). This match shows everything I mentioned before: 1. although being strong in the central defense, the opponent created 4x more chances. His offensive players seemed to be unstoppable. 2. the opponent´s wingbacks destroyed my game, by taking out the winger completely (a lot of interceptions and strong tacklings) 3. the opponents strikers and offensive midfielders were very efficient at scoring It is only one match, but it shows that a quality short passing team is always able to overpower a wing tactic.My intention is not to defend the SIM by any means necessary, everyone would welcome an improvement. But the assertions were SO wrong, I had to comment.
I played short passing most of the time here at MZ and I believe, I can compare both systems. Every manager being here for years should be able to do that.

one example:

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1151583863&tid=848054

This is a match against a more or less equally strong opponent (sometimes I beat them and sometimes they beat me).

This match shows everything I mentioned before:

1. although being strong in the central defense, the opponent created 4x more chances. His offensive players seemed to be unstoppable.

2. the opponent´s wingbacks destroyed my game, by taking out the winger completely (a lot of interceptions and strong tacklings)

3. the opponents strikers and offensive midfielders were very efficient at scoring

It is only one match, but it shows that a quality short passing team is always able to overpower a wing tactic.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By nanyc8 - 04-05-2020 14:10

Your opponent is stronger I think (more value and experience). Let's see this another game of your team against another similar stronger team (argentinian this time): https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1151858376&tid=1058577 Let's see why I think you won this match easily: * Long passes to the winger (more than 20 meters): 13 = 11 success + 2 missed * Tackles & long pass to the winger in a single action: 5 = 4 success + 1 missed (In short passing tactics this thing doesn't happen. The tackler run 6 steps or more before passing which facilitates to be re - tackled) * Your opponent's Short passes (less than 6 meters) missed in good attack pos.: 6 * Headers to goal from 10 meters and opponent's keeper performing the statue:2 + missed headers: 4. Success rate: 33% * Your team foot shots on goal: 10 = 1 goal + 9 missed (10%) * Your opponent's striker totally free against your keeper and zero goals: 10 times! I did this because I like MZ. This is not football man. Maybe that's how I will be better understood.

curarex wrote:

one example:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1151583863&tid=848054
This is a match against a more or less equally strong opponent (sometimes I beat them and sometimes they beat me).

Your opponent is stronger I think (more value and experience). Let's see this another game of your team against another similar stronger team (argentinian this time):
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1151858376&tid=1058577

Let's see why I think you won this match easily:

* Long passes to the winger (more than 20 meters): 13 = 11 success + 2 missed

* Tackles & long pass to the winger in a single action: 5 = 4 success + 1 missed

(In short passing tactics this thing doesn't happen. The tackler run 6 steps or more before passing which facilitates to be re - tackled)

* Your opponent's Short passes (less than 6 meters) missed in good attack pos.: 6

* Headers to goal from 10 meters and opponent's keeper performing the statue:2 + missed headers: 4. Success rate: 33%

* Your team foot shots on goal: 10 = 1 goal + 9 missed (10%)

* Your opponent's striker totally free against your keeper and zero goals: 10 times!

I did this because I like MZ. This is not football man. Maybe that's how I will be better understood.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By deleted_1658594 - 04-05-2020 14:24

Div5 Argentina??? Are you kidding me?Div5 Argentina??? Are you kidding me?

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By nanyc8 - 04-05-2020 14:42

Please, look squad summary, value, salary, experience and Rank.. Not kidding. OK, you're right. I hate arguing. Have a nice day ;)

curarex wrote:

Div5 Argentina??? Are you kidding me?

Please, look squad summary, value, salary, experience and Rank.. Not kidding. OK, you're right. I hate arguing. Have a nice day ;)

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By deleted_1658594 - 04-05-2020 14:42

Take this one: equally strong, Div1 Por https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1151208200 Very even match, although I attacked with "double-wing". It is possible to play """good football""" and win matches.Take this one: equally strong, Div1 Por


https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1151208200

Very even match, although I attacked with "double-wing".

It is possible to play """good football""" and win matches.

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By deleted_1658594 - 04-05-2020 14:50

Oh man you are really unbelievable^^ have a nice day ✌Oh man you are really unbelievable^^ have a nice day ✌

Odg.: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By milsu - 28-01-2021 19:49

[Ex Yu]

I must agree with the original post. Wing tactic looks like exploitation of the system. Seven defenders, two wingers on one side, and one striker - what am I to do against that? I can't have four wing backs to mark both of his wingers, and my center backs will rarely jump for his striker's headers. And header goes into goal more often than a ground shot. My two strikers and three midfielders are useless against his seven defenders. What to do, to copy that wing tactic, and everyone play the same?I must agree with the original post. Wing tactic looks like exploitation of the system. Seven defenders, two wingers on one side, and one striker - what am I to do against that? I can't have four wing backs to mark both of his wingers, and my center backs will rarely jump for his striker's headers. And header goes into goal more often than a ground shot. My two strikers and three midfielders are useless against his seven defenders. What to do, to copy that wing tactic, and everyone play the same?

Отн: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By naskoch (LA) - 22-02-2021 19:41

[BUL]

Yes and thats why there were [b]20[/b] times more people playing and paying for MZ, now only volleyball fans left hahahahha the wing tactic domination(so UGLY to watch at 3d) was the biggest mistake ever in this game, lost more than 50% of the users just for several months and is far away from good management, and 5 years later they still havent fix this unbelievable and the lack of comunication with the customers of this product is still the same even worst

curarex wrote:

Until ~2009 MZ was a pure tiki-taka-massacre (wings/long balls did not work at all), you would have loved it. Two heaps of players running into each other in a small strip close to the center...THAT was boring.

Football is about free spaces. If I am not able to close them, I will loose...

The SIM is far from perfect, but the crew should not change anything for the worse.

Yes and thats why there were 20 times more people playing and paying for MZ, now only volleyball fans left hahahahha
the wing tactic domination(so UGLY to watch at 3d) was the biggest mistake ever in this game, lost more than 50% of the users just for several months and is far away from good management, and 5 years later they still havent fix this unbelievable
and the lack of comunication with the customers of this product is still the same even worst

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By milsu - 19-05-2022 21:14

[Ex Yu]

Look at my Division Cup Season 82 - Central Europe Top-Div1, teams from 1st-4th place in the tables all play the wing tactic, and teams from 5th-8th place don't. https://www.managerzone.com/?p=cup&sub=info&cid=26103

naskoch wrote:

Yes and thats why there were 20 times more people playing and paying for MZ, now only volleyball fans left hahahahha
the wing tactic domination(so UGLY to watch at 3d) was the biggest mistake ever in this game, lost more than 50% of the users just for several months and is far away from good management, and 5 years later they still havent fix this unbelievable
and the lack of comunication with the customers of this product is still the same even worst

Look at my Division Cup Season 82 - Central Europe Top-Div1, teams from 1st-4th place in the tables all play the wing tactic, and teams from 5th-8th place don't.

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=cup&sub=info&cid=26103

Re: Wing tactics, VolleyBall, Handball?

By milsu - 19-05-2022 21:17

[Ex Yu]

* Group 31* Group 31

 

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