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Are There Hidden Stats?

By jdpaulk - 20-11-2019 05:05

[MZUSA]

So, I have two comparable strikers, one of which I purchased this week. Both have 10 balls in shooting and similar stats in other skills, such as PI, stamina, and experience. Striker A has better heading, but since I do not use wing tactics, I assume these strikers should be similarly productive goal scorers. Nevertheless, match results are making me a little worried that the new striker (Striker B) could be a Trojan horse of incompetence. Being curious, I just ran 7 test matches of my starting 11 in a flat 4-4-2 against the same tactic. I next ran another 8 test matches where I swapped the positions of my two forwards to control for the possibility that one side of my defense may be better/worse than the other. I then crunched the stats. Striker A had 106 shots, 85 (80.1%) of which were on frame. Striker B had 81 shots, 57 (70.4%) of which were on frame. Striker A scored 13 goals on 12.2% of his total shots. Striker B scored 3 goals on 3.7% of his total shots. [b]Wise minds of MZ, is it possible that some players are just plain terrible compared to others despite having similar stats? [/b] [u]Striker A/B[/u] Speed = 8/9 Stamina = 5/7 PI = 6/8 Shooting = 10/10 Ball Control = 8/9 Experience = 10/10So, I have two comparable strikers, one of which I purchased this week. Both have 10 balls in shooting and similar stats in other skills, such as PI, stamina, and experience. Striker A has better heading, but since I do not use wing tactics, I assume these strikers should be similarly productive goal scorers. Nevertheless, match results are making me a little worried that the new striker (Striker B) could be a Trojan horse of incompetence.

Being curious, I just ran 7 test matches of my starting 11 in a flat 4-4-2 against the same tactic. I next ran another 8 test matches where I swapped the positions of my two forwards to control for the possibility that one side of my defense may be better/worse than the other. I then crunched the stats.

Striker A had 106 shots, 85 (80.1%) of which were on frame.
Striker B had 81 shots, 57 (70.4%) of which were on frame.

Striker A scored 13 goals on 12.2% of his total shots.
Striker B scored 3 goals on 3.7% of his total shots.

Wise minds of MZ, is it possible that some players are just plain terrible compared to others despite having similar stats?


Striker A/B
Speed = 8/9
Stamina = 5/7
PI = 6/8
Shooting = 10/10
Ball Control = 8/9
Experience = 10/10

 

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Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By aldebaran - 20-11-2019 18:53

oh boy! what are the last 3 digits of the player's ID? (pouring oil on the fire) *insert evil emoticon here*oh boy!

what are the last 3 digits of the player's ID? (pouring oil on the fire)

*insert evil emoticon here*

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By jdpaulk - 21-11-2019 04:19

[MZUSA]

Oops, I mixed up the player intelligence for the two players. Here are the full, accurate stats for good Striker A (Akoz) and seemingly shambolic Striker B (Yagan). I hope the image formatting works. Please provide counseling! [img]http://www.mzimage.com/image.php?lang=en&design=1:000000:000000:::&player=Ragip:Akoz:198505651:30:tr:r&atts=8:5:8:10:10:6:1:8:3:2:0:10:9&mzv=true[/img] [img]http://www.mzimage.com/image.php?lang=en&design=1:000000:000000:::&player=Firat:Yagan:201917744:27:tr:l&atts=9:7:6:7:10:5:2:9:4:6:2:10:9&mzv=true[/img]Oops, I mixed up the player intelligence for the two players. Here are the full, accurate stats for good Striker A (Akoz) and seemingly shambolic Striker B (Yagan). I hope the image formatting works. Please provide counseling!

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By romanasu - 21-11-2019 10:31

[MZ]

The picture link doesn't work. A player looks better on papaer; but, probably he is your old player with team connection :D The B player is the new player, he need some time to integrate in the team :DThe picture link doesn't work. A player looks better on papaer; but, probably he is your old player with team connection :D The B player is the new player, he need some time to integrate in the team :D

Sv: Are There Hidden Stats?

By panboy - 21-11-2019 12:07

[LEGEND]

intelligence makes a difference, and do they have any partial skill balls? One on form 9,25 and the other on 9,75 maybe? Tactics makes big difference too. Maybe player A gets into shooting positions with less opponents nearby than player B. If a defender is close at the moment the shot goes off I have a feeling that it rarely goes in.intelligence makes a difference, and do they have any partial skill balls? One on form 9,25 and the other on 9,75 maybe? Tactics makes big difference too. Maybe player A gets into shooting positions with less opponents nearby than player B. If a defender is close at the moment the shot goes off I have a feeling that it rarely goes in.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By aldebaran - 21-11-2019 21:15

8 intel vs 6 intel in my book, play intel works like a universal boost (or like a deterrent to the negative effects of the randomness in the SIM... take your pick and "translate" it however you want :P) and of course, that's if tactics/partials/opponent (and everything else that can apply here) don't affect their performance *the link works, it just needs some time to load up8 intel vs 6 intel

in my book, play intel works like a universal boost (or like a deterrent to the negative effects of the randomness in the SIM... take your pick and "translate" it however you want :P)

and of course, that's if tactics/partials/opponent (and everything else that can apply here) don't affect their performance

*the link works, it just needs some time to load up

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 21-11-2019 21:28

[FLUSA]
President

I'm feeling a bit lazy, but I could provide empiric evidence that there are hidden stats.... something like "work rate" or "determination" for example, it wouldn't be unusual, I'd say is even to be expected as all football manager games have hidden stats on players.I'm feeling a bit lazy, but I could provide empiric evidence that there are hidden stats.... something like "work rate" or "determination" for example, it wouldn't be unusual, I'd say is even to be expected as all football manager games have hidden stats on players.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 21-11-2019 21:52

[FLUSA]
President

Oh well.... here goes: I have this 2 players: [img]https://i.paste.pics/81a3dda58b581051778610cafb5ce2ea.png[/img] [img]https://i.paste.pics/142b3fefc7b251d991e1ef39bc4d9214.png[/img] I have Tyrell and he doesn't really look nothing special, is a bit slow, he doesn't have 10s on any skill, but the guy is a beast. Regardless of the tactic I use, it could be wings or short passing, it doesn't matter, Tyrell always comes on top, I made lots of experiments with short passing and swapped positions between them and there's no argument, Tyrell scores lots of goals while Plant like to pass the ball and just don't get as often into scoring positions. Additionally on the USA NT we tried "better" strikers but still, Tyrell is the guy that scores more often for us regardless of his apparent weaknesses, here's the last 2 games of the USA NT: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1115627452 We beat Thailand 4-0, Tyrell scored 3 goals, was taken out at minute 61 and then we where able to score just 1 more goal. https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1115627448 Then against Colombia, it was a 4-4 tie, Tyrell scored 4 goals, we where winning the game 4-2, Tyrell was taken out at minute 59 and we didn't score more goals and Colombia tied the game. So do I think players have some hidden factors or skills? Well, the empiric evidence is enough to satisfy me and I believe the answer is yes, not only because of the empiric evidence but also because like I said, on football manager games is more common for players to have hidden skills than not to have them. Funny story is that a few seasons back I tried to sell Tyrell for cheap and no one wanted him, I had "better" strikers but decided to give him a chance as my team was struggling to score goals, well... he solved all my problems, lucky no one wanted him, I ended up selling the "better" players instead.Oh well.... here goes:

I have this 2 players:




I have Tyrell and he doesn't really look nothing special, is a bit slow, he doesn't have 10s on any skill, but the guy is a beast.

Regardless of the tactic I use, it could be wings or short passing, it doesn't matter, Tyrell always comes on top, I made lots of experiments with short passing and swapped positions between them and there's no argument, Tyrell scores lots of goals while Plant like to pass the ball and just don't get as often into scoring positions.

Additionally on the USA NT we tried "better" strikers but still, Tyrell is the guy that scores more often for us regardless of his apparent weaknesses, here's the last 2 games of the USA NT:

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1115627452

We beat Thailand 4-0, Tyrell scored 3 goals, was taken out at minute 61 and then we where able to score just 1 more goal.

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1115627448

Then against Colombia, it was a 4-4 tie, Tyrell scored 4 goals, we where winning the game 4-2, Tyrell was taken out at minute 59 and we didn't score more goals and Colombia tied the game.

So do I think players have some hidden factors or skills? Well, the empiric evidence is enough to satisfy me and I believe the answer is yes, not only because of the empiric evidence but also because like I said, on football manager games is more common for players to have hidden skills than not to have them.

Funny story is that a few seasons back I tried to sell Tyrell for cheap and no one wanted him, I had "better" strikers but decided to give him a chance as my team was struggling to score goals, well... he solved all my problems, lucky no one wanted him, I ended up selling the "better" players instead.

Edited: 21-11-2019 21:53
Total edits: 1

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By jdpaulk - 22-11-2019 05:01

[MZUSA]

Thanks for the response, Darkline. On my end, I ran 15 more test matches, and though my new striker performed better, he still wasn’t close to being on par with my other, statistically similar striker. It’s also worth noting that my best striker also used to be a 9 ball shooter... up until when I sold him last week to make room for the new 10 ball guy with “superior stats”. Stupid me.Thanks for the response, Darkline.

On my end, I ran 15 more test matches, and though my new striker performed better, he still wasn’t close to being on par with my other, statistically similar striker.

It’s also worth noting that my best striker also used to be a 9 ball shooter... up until when I sold him last week to make room for the new 10 ball guy with “superior stats”. Stupid me.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By chucky06 - 22-11-2019 12:34

[AUSNZ]
President

Yeh I feel there’s always been hidden stats. If you look at some of the best strikers around some are 9 balls and statistically a lot better players score fewer goals. I’ve had 10 ball better strikers than my current 9 baller who haven’t scored anywhere near the goals my current has put away. I definitely feel player intel/experience are big things to consider when buying a striker. That’s my current [fpl=202666659]Yeh I feel there’s always been hidden stats. If you look at some of the best strikers around some are 9 balls and statistically a lot better players score fewer goals.

I’ve had 10 ball better strikers than my current 9 baller who haven’t scored anywhere near the goals my current has put away.

I definitely feel player intel/experience are big things to consider when buying a striker.

That’s my current

Boris Dalström

Age: 44 (Retired)

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By scruttino - 24-11-2019 19:37

[AUSNZ]

That's my experience as well. Even when experience, PI & shooting are the same, some players just score more than the others. It's impossible to predict how a player will convert scoring chances based on their ball count and how they are distributed between the skills. Which makes training strikers especially challenging. My advise is to look at top scorer leader boards, as they produce some interesting outcomes and buy a striker with a known track record. That's the only way to know if they will convert their chances into goals.

chucky06 wrote:

Yeh I feel there’s always been hidden stats. If you look at some of the best strikers around some are 9 balls and statistically a lot better players score fewer goals.

I’ve had 10 ball better strikers than my current 9 baller who haven’t scored anywhere near the goals my current has put away.

I definitely feel player intel/experience are big things to consider when buying a striker.

That’s my current

Boris Dalström

Age: 44 (Retired)

That's my experience as well. Even when experience, PI & shooting are the same, some players just score more than the others.

It's impossible to predict how a player will convert scoring chances based on their ball count and how they are distributed between the skills. Which makes training strikers especially challenging.

My advise is to look at top scorer leader boards, as they produce some interesting outcomes and buy a striker with a known track record. That's the only way to know if they will convert their chances into goals.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By civilu - 27-11-2019 10:09

[RAF]
President

[color=blue][b]HIDDEN SKILLS EXIST!!![/b][/color] There is no doubt about it - I even lost 6M on a bet (buying a striker with excellent show-off stats and extremely poor performances) to prove it!HIDDEN SKILLS EXIST!!! There is no doubt about it - I even lost 6M on a bet (buying a striker with excellent show-off stats and extremely poor performances) to prove it!

Ant: Are There Hidden Stats?

By koopman - 27-11-2019 14:20

[CIA]

Would be interesting to know how many people choose their strikers based on empirical evidence.Would be interesting to know how many people choose their strikers based on empirical evidence.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By chucky06 - 27-11-2019 14:24

[AUSNZ]
President

When buying a player of any kind I regularly look at their stats before buying. Strikers I see how many goals they have scored in comparison to other teams in the league, how they compare in WL etc. Wingers I look at their pass percentages over a few matches or by using my stats. I think you’re silly if you don’t do at least a bit of research and not take everything for face value.

koopman wrote:

Would be interesting to know how many people choose their strikers based on empirical evidence.

When buying a player of any kind I regularly look at their stats before buying. Strikers I see how many goals they have scored in comparison to other teams in the league, how they compare in WL etc.

Wingers I look at their pass percentages over a few matches or by using my stats.

I think you’re silly if you don’t do at least a bit of research and not take everything for face value.

Ant: Are There Hidden Stats?

By koopman - 27-11-2019 14:59

[CIA]

I never said [i]I[/i] didn't look at this ;-) I just wondered how many people do this [i]as well[/i] I have been testing this season with 3 strikers (only my 3rd season since my comeback to MZ in january and this is the first season I have had good competition) http://mzplayer.se/?id=1127132932 The first one is clearly the best for now. The third one doesn't even perform in wing tactics either (where the other two are replaced by: http://mzplayer.se/?id=1127132438) However I've had bigger differences in performance in the past. My best striker ever had 8 speed.

chucky06 wrote:

When buying a player of any kind I regularly look at their stats before buying. Strikers I see how many goals they have scored in comparison to other teams in the league, how they compare in WL etc.

Wingers I look at their pass percentages over a few matches or by using my stats.

I think you’re silly if you don’t do at least a bit of research and not take everything for face value.

I never said I didn't look at this ;-)
I just wondered how many people do this as well

I have been testing this season with 3 strikers (only my 3rd season since my comeback to MZ in january and this is the first season I have had good competition)
http://mzplayer.se/?id=1127132932

The first one is clearly the best for now. The third one doesn't even perform in wing tactics either (where the other two are replaced by: http://mzplayer.se/?id=1127132438)

However I've had bigger differences in performance in the past. My best striker ever had 8 speed.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By kdiega - 27-11-2019 21:56

I also think you have to look at the statistics, before buying, regardsI also think you have to look at the statistics, before buying,

regards

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By superdad123 - 28-11-2019 19:54

[ENG]

Hidden skills do NOT exist.Hidden skills do NOT exist.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 28-11-2019 20:40

[FLUSA]
President

Can you prove it or make a case based on evidence for that affirmation?

superdad123 wrote:

Hidden skills do NOT exist.

Can you prove it or make a case based on evidence for that affirmation?

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By kahn1969 - 28-11-2019 21:57

[Canada]

Played this game for years (kept leaving and coming back in the past 9 years lol ...), and I'm convinced that some sort of hidden stats exist. Don't have any evidence, though

superdad123 wrote:

Hidden skills do NOT exist.

Played this game for years (kept leaving and coming back in the past 9 years lol ...), and I'm convinced that some sort of hidden stats exist. Don't have any evidence, though

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By chucky06 - 29-11-2019 01:51

[AUSNZ]
President

I would also like to know your reasoning for this as there is lots of evidence there is hidden skills. Ask the top managers like Quixing and the strikers he has had in the Top World League with his best and most consistent not even world class on paper.

darkline wrote:

Can you prove it or make a case based on evidence for that affirmation?

I would also like to know your reasoning for this as there is lots of evidence there is hidden skills. Ask the top managers like Quixing and the strikers he has had in the Top World League with his best and most consistent not even world class on paper.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By franella82 - 01-12-2019 13:54

[CBA-MZ]

superdad123 wrote:

Hidden skills do NOT exist.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 01-12-2019 14:15

[FLUSA]
President

So "hidden skills do not exist" based on what? I showed evidence that they exist, I want someone to show me evidence to the contrary. Could be an interesting discussion but just repeating a catchphrase doesn't really leave much room to start a debate. I'd called them "hidden attributes" btw, I remember on some sort of code from 2007 or 2008 with the old 3D engine that showed that players have skills & attributes if I remember correctly, Pi & Experience where attributes & the rest skills, the debate was that attributes would work as modifiers of the base value of the skills. Again this was a very long time ago so my memory might not be entirely correct, but there was some evidence on that code about hidden attributes that would act as "personality" traits, for example lets says "aggressiveness" , a more aggressive player might commit more faults in defense, move forward to block a pass or in offense choose to take more shots on goals instead of passing the ball back. The "aggressiveness" is just an example of how it might work, not saying that's for sure a "hidden attribute". And finally and I said before, all offline football games have players with hidden attributes, championship manager, football manager, even some crappy ones like fifa manager or other obscure manager games have them... why would mz be different in that regard? I imagine whoever programmed this game in the first place must have played or taken inspiration from other football manager games, so why would the programmer avoid having a feature that's common to every manager game?So "hidden skills do not exist" based on what? I showed evidence that they exist, I want someone to show me evidence to the contrary. Could be an interesting discussion but just repeating a catchphrase doesn't really leave much room to start a debate.

I'd called them "hidden attributes" btw, I remember on some sort of code from 2007 or 2008 with the old 3D engine that showed that players have skills & attributes if I remember correctly, Pi & Experience where attributes & the rest skills, the debate was that attributes would work as modifiers of the base value of the skills. Again this was a very long time ago so my memory might not be entirely correct, but there was some evidence on that code about hidden attributes that would act as "personality" traits, for example lets says "aggressiveness" , a more aggressive player might commit more faults in defense, move forward to block a pass or in offense choose to take more shots on goals instead of passing the ball back.

The "aggressiveness" is just an example of how it might work, not saying that's for sure a "hidden attribute".

And finally and I said before, all offline football games have players with hidden attributes, championship manager, football manager, even some crappy ones like fifa manager or other obscure manager games have them... why would mz be different in that regard? I imagine whoever programmed this game in the first place must have played or taken inspiration from other football manager games, so why would the programmer avoid having a feature that's common to every manager game?

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By bojangles - 01-12-2019 20:03

It sounds entirely plausible. It makes sense that things go beyond what we see. I'm curious though if the other things on a players profile (that we do see) play a part like height, weight or foot. I don't have much experience in coding but it could be that there are lines that put weight to scoring ability, aggressiveness etc that correspond to height, weight or preferred foot (or a combination of these things). It wouldn't even be dishonest of a developer to put these in. It complicates the game but I think people on MZ can't decide if they want something close to real football, or something based purely on stats and meritocracy.

darkline wrote:

So "hidden skills do not exist" based on what? I showed evidence that they exist, I want someone to show me evidence to the contrary. Could be an interesting discussion but just repeating a catchphrase doesn't really leave much room to start a debate.

I'd called them "hidden attributes" btw, I remember on some sort of code from 2007 or 2008 with the old 3D engine that showed that players have skills & attributes if I remember correctly, Pi & Experience where attributes & the rest skills, the debate was that attributes would work as modifiers of the base value of the skills. Again this was a very long time ago so my memory might not be entirely correct, but there was some evidence on that code about hidden attributes that would act as "personality" traits, for example lets says "aggressiveness" , a more aggressive player might commit more faults in defense, move forward to block a pass or in offense choose to take more shots on goals instead of passing the ball back.

The "aggressiveness" is just an example of how it might work, not saying that's for sure a "hidden attribute".

And finally and I said before, all offline football games have players with hidden attributes, championship manager, football manager, even some crappy ones like fifa manager or other obscure manager games have them... why would mz be different in that regard? I imagine whoever programmed this game in the first place must have played or taken inspiration from other football manager games, so why would the programmer avoid having a feature that's common to every manager game?

It sounds entirely plausible. It makes sense that things go beyond what we see. I'm curious though if the other things on a players profile (that we do see) play a part like height, weight or foot. I don't have much experience in coding but it could be that there are lines that put weight to scoring ability, aggressiveness etc that correspond to height, weight or preferred foot (or a combination of these things).

It wouldn't even be dishonest of a developer to put these in. It complicates the game but I think people on MZ can't decide if they want something close to real football, or something based purely on stats and meritocracy.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By superdad123 - 01-12-2019 20:24

[ENG]

Hidden skills do NOT exist!!! Unless you can prove something does exist then it doesn’t. SimpleHidden skills do NOT exist!!!
Unless you can prove something does exist then it doesn’t. Simple

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 01-12-2019 20:57

[FLUSA]
President

But I already proven it exist with empirical evidence, just in case the term is not familiar to someone, empirical evidence is information determined by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation. Already did that, already experimented alternating two strikers on different tactics, already posted my examples & the data I collected, but if you can explain why "Robert Plant" doesn't score as many goals as "Tyrell Brandt" playing on the same position even if I use him on a short passing tactic, then I'd be really interested to hear your theory.

superdad123 wrote:

Hidden skills do NOT exist!!!
Unless you can prove something does exist then it doesn’t. Simple

But I already proven it exist with empirical evidence, just in case the term is not familiar to someone, empirical evidence is information determined by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.

Already did that, already experimented alternating two strikers on different tactics, already posted my examples & the data I collected, but if you can explain why "Robert Plant" doesn't score as many goals as "Tyrell Brandt" playing on the same position even if I use him on a short passing tactic, then I'd be really interested to hear your theory.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By mosmosmos - 02-12-2019 02:11

[ENG]

I'm not buying the hidden skills thing either. Given the original basis of the game where a number of the attributes are irrelevant, and there hasn't exactly been a huge amount of development. I can't imagine they were ever in there originally. I'd call the claim as 'empirical evidence' as a bit of a stretch. You'd need to play hundreds of identical scout matches to get to that point. I think where we currently are still firmly falls into the category of 'anecdotal evidence' I think it's more to do with the way the skills and players interact with each other in unexpected ways, most likely unintended in the programming then anything hidden away. To offer a potential reason you you Brandt/Plant scenario. Plant has higher PI & Passing, therefore the simulation has decided he should pass more. Brandt has lower passing and goes and shoots instead. I remember back when I was running my team and just swapping the positions of a couple of players made a huge difference to the way they played and the decisions they made.I'm not buying the hidden skills thing either. Given the original basis of the game where a number of the attributes are irrelevant, and there hasn't exactly been a huge amount of development. I can't imagine they were ever in there originally.

I'd call the claim as 'empirical evidence' as a bit of a stretch. You'd need to play hundreds of identical scout matches to get to that point. I think where we currently are still firmly falls into the category of 'anecdotal evidence'

I think it's more to do with the way the skills and players interact with each other in unexpected ways, most likely unintended in the programming then anything hidden away. To offer a potential reason you you Brandt/Plant scenario. Plant has higher PI & Passing, therefore the simulation has decided he should pass more. Brandt has lower passing and goes and shoots instead.

I remember back when I was running my team and just swapping the positions of a couple of players made a huge difference to the way they played and the decisions they made.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 02-12-2019 09:58

[FLUSA]
President

@mos Just to put things in context, Robert Plant plays the whole game usually as my 2nd striker, I have two "heading" strikers that are Tyrell & Otto Lindhom, Tyrell usually plays only about 50 minutes as striker, Otto many times only plays 40 as striker as sometimes I switch him to winger (has 10 AP) Otto was the top scorer on the MLS by a mile last season (got 72 goals, 20 more than the 2nd top scorer), the owner (who won the MLS last season) decided to sell him because the player was retiring, I didn't really need a striker since I had Plant, but I had the chance of buying a top scorer and took it. This season their stats are: Otto - 37 goals (mostly playing half game) - shot conversion percent - 25.69% Tyrell 24 goals (mostly playing half game) - shot conversion percent - 24.00% Robert Plant - 6 goals (playing full game) - shot conversion percent - 13.64% So it's not that Plant doesn't take shots, he just doesn't score the shots he takes as per her low conversion rate.@mos

Just to put things in context, Robert Plant plays the whole game usually as my 2nd striker, I have two "heading" strikers that are Tyrell & Otto Lindhom, Tyrell usually plays only about 50 minutes as striker, Otto many times only plays 40 as striker as sometimes I switch him to winger (has 10 AP)

Otto was the top scorer on the MLS by a mile last season (got 72 goals, 20 more than the 2nd top scorer), the owner (who won the MLS last season) decided to sell him because the player was retiring, I didn't really need a striker since I had Plant, but I had the chance of buying a top scorer and took it.

This season their stats are:

Otto - 37 goals (mostly playing half game) - shot conversion percent - 25.69%
Tyrell 24 goals (mostly playing half game) - shot conversion percent - 24.00%
Robert Plant - 6 goals (playing full game) - shot conversion percent - 13.64%

So it's not that Plant doesn't take shots, he just doesn't score the shots he takes as per her low conversion rate.

Edited: 02-12-2019 09:59
Total edits: 1

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 02-12-2019 10:06

[FLUSA]
President

Additionally and also according to stats that I got here: https://mzlive.eu/league/US/Major-League-Soccer/statistics/attacking/season/72/ The passing completion rate of my strikers is: Tyrell - 89.13% Otto - 80.57% Plant - 79.38% So it isn't just that he doesn't score, he doesn't even pass the ball well despite having 9 passing vs the 6 passing Tyrell has. IMO if I can't explain it with the set of skills I see, then something I'm not seeing has to be affecting the player and therefore I believe there has to be 1 or 2 extra attributes that are hidden or how would you explain this?Additionally and also according to stats that I got here: https://mzlive.eu/league/US/Major-League-Soccer/statistics/attacking/season/72/

The passing completion rate of my strikers is:

Tyrell - 89.13%
Otto - 80.57%
Plant - 79.38%

So it isn't just that he doesn't score, he doesn't even pass the ball well despite having 9 passing vs the 6 passing Tyrell has.

IMO if I can't explain it with the set of skills I see, then something I'm not seeing has to be affecting the player and therefore I believe there has to be 1 or 2 extra attributes that are hidden or how would you explain this?

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By franella82 - 02-12-2019 21:55

[CBA-MZ]

Based in the evidence of the players of great teams, for example Gaia Futura wins a lot because they have better players than other managers, why he's the current champion of the WL and you play in 2d division? Because he have better players than you, isn't magic at all. Magic explanations like hidden atributtes are for managers that don't study correctly the SIM and market scammers.

darkline wrote:

Based in the evidence of the players of great teams, for example Gaia Futura wins a lot because they have better players than other managers, why he's the current champion of the WL and you play in 2d division? Because he have better players than you, isn't magic at all.

Magic explanations like hidden atributtes are for managers that don't study correctly the SIM and market scammers.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 02-12-2019 22:52

[FLUSA]
President

I play in 2nd division of the WL because I'm lazy, I only care about some competitions and I play on autopilot on the rest, the WL is like a friendly league, there's almost no money involved so I don't pay attention to it, I play on autopilot using always the same tactic and of course, when you do that you're predictable and you will lose points along the way... I mean, I won the Champions Cup while I was in 3rd or 4th division of the WL, difference being that I put effort into winning the Champions Cup and none on WL. Gaia Futura must have better players than me for sure, after all I was playing with a totally homegrown team with no foreigners up until last season when they started deteriorating and had to get some players in, I'm still giving the advantage of using only 3 foreigners out of the 9 I could have so yes, I could have a stronger team if I wanted to. In any case, what is your logic, rational and non-magical explanation for the stats I posted? I mean, saying that Gaia Futura has better players than me or you is stating something obvious, that doesn't explain my stats though.....

franella82 wrote:

Based in the evidence of the players of great teams, for example Gaia Futura wins a lot because they have better players than other managers, why he's the current champion of the WL and you play in 2d division? Because he have better players than you, isn't magic at all.

Magic explanations like hidden atributtes are for managers that don't study correctly the SIM and market scammers.

I play in 2nd division of the WL because I'm lazy, I only care about some competitions and I play on autopilot on the rest, the WL is like a friendly league, there's almost no money involved so I don't pay attention to it, I play on autopilot using always the same tactic and of course, when you do that you're predictable and you will lose points along the way... I mean, I won the Champions Cup while I was in 3rd or 4th division of the WL, difference being that I put effort into winning the Champions Cup and none on WL.

Gaia Futura must have better players than me for sure, after all I was playing with a totally homegrown team with no foreigners up until last season when they started deteriorating and had to get some players in, I'm still giving the advantage of using only 3 foreigners out of the 9 I could have so yes, I could have a stronger team if I wanted to.

In any case, what is your logic, rational and non-magical explanation for the stats I posted? I mean, saying that Gaia Futura has better players than me or you is stating something obvious, that doesn't explain my stats though.....

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By franella82 - 03-12-2019 02:30

[CBA-MZ]

You use Brandt as substitute forward, the substitute striker always have better accuracy, its a basic rule of Mz: always change your strikers in the second half. Thats not hidden stats.

darkline wrote:

You use Brandt as substitute forward, the substitute striker always have better accuracy, its a basic rule of Mz: always change your strikers in the second half. Thats not hidden stats.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 03-12-2019 11:20

[FLUSA]
President

Well, my top scorer is the guy that plays the 1st half of the game and supposedly should have less accuracy them, like I said, this is a player that I didn't really need him and wasn't looking to add a forward, but he was top scorer on the MLS by 20 goals difference over the 2nd last year, his owner put him on the market and because I do believe in hidden skills, I decided to buy him despite already having enough strikers..... probably I would not have bought him if I didn't believe in hidden skills as his "striker" skills are comparable to what I already had on paper. [img]https://i.imgur.com/ixkGoUK.png[/img] So main skills for a striker would be speed/stamina/pi/control/shooting/heading Compared to Plant: Speed both have 8's, advantage to Otto since he's closer to 9 Stamina advantage to Plant, 9 vs 8 Pi advantage to Plant 9 vs 8 Shooting advantage to Plant 10 vs 9 Heading advantage to Otto 8 vs 6 Control both have 9 Goals scored, Otto scored 37 goals, Plant: 6 goals and to add more to the context of how little is 6 goals, my LB/RB John Bonham has 3 goals and he's playing defense and has no striker skills. So if we only decide which player is a better striker based only on what we can see, which is just relevant skills for a striker, then in that particular position Plant comes slightly on top due to having more stamina/pi/shooting, Otto has more heading with 8 but I don't think 8 heading is something extraordinary anyway. You can argue that Otto has more total balls, but then again if we're judging the player on the skills we can see that also shouldn't matter, after all having 10 air passing or 7 tackling shouldn't help him score goals. In any case, the OP asked a question, I replied based on experience and I'm just trying to be helpful, I think by now everyone can draw their own conclusions and act accordingly when using the market.

franella82 wrote:

You use Brandt as substitute forward, the substitute striker always have better accuracy, its a basic rule of Mz: always change your strikers in the second half. Thats not hidden stats.

Well, my top scorer is the guy that plays the 1st half of the game and supposedly should have less accuracy them, like I said, this is a player that I didn't really need him and wasn't looking to add a forward, but he was top scorer on the MLS by 20 goals difference over the 2nd last year, his owner put him on the market and because I do believe in hidden skills, I decided to buy him despite already having enough strikers..... probably I would not have bought him if I didn't believe in hidden skills as his "striker" skills are comparable to what I already had on paper.



So main skills for a striker would be speed/stamina/pi/control/shooting/heading

Compared to Plant:

Speed both have 8's, advantage to Otto since he's closer to 9
Stamina advantage to Plant, 9 vs 8
Pi advantage to Plant 9 vs 8
Shooting advantage to Plant 10 vs 9
Heading advantage to Otto 8 vs 6
Control both have 9

Goals scored, Otto scored 37 goals, Plant: 6 goals and to add more to the context of how little is 6 goals, my LB/RB John Bonham has 3 goals and he's playing defense and has no striker skills.

So if we only decide which player is a better striker based only on what we can see, which is just relevant skills for a striker, then in that particular position Plant comes slightly on top due to having more stamina/pi/shooting, Otto has more heading with 8 but I don't think 8 heading is something extraordinary anyway.

You can argue that Otto has more total balls, but then again if we're judging the player on the skills we can see that also shouldn't matter, after all having 10 air passing or 7 tackling shouldn't help him score goals.

In any case, the OP asked a question, I replied based on experience and I'm just trying to be helpful, I think by now everyone can draw their own conclusions and act accordingly when using the market.

Ant: Are There Hidden Stats?

By mwosle (FA) - 03-12-2019 15:11

[DISCLL]

@darkline: I took a look at MZLive (https://mzlive.eu/league/US/Major-League-Soccer/statistics/attacking/season/72/) and the tactics you used in your league game and where you've put your strikers (Brand, Plant, Otto). [img]https://i.paste.pics/81a3dda58b581051778610cafb5ce2ea.png[/img][img]https://i.paste.pics/142b3fefc7b251d991e1ef39bc4d9214.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/ixkGoUK.png[/img] I do not see something strange or unexplainable. Plant is used as AM, and not as a real striker. He takes mare long distance shots than he takes headers from you winger passes. So he needs 7,33 shots per goal. Brant and Otto have similar stats. You are using them as central forward in your wing-play tactic. They have very similar skills that affect there scoring ratio and they have very similar, explainable, scoring stats. Brandt 4,17 shots/goal and Otto 3,89 shots/goal. As long as Plant is playing in another position than Brandt and Otto, it's very normal he has a lower conversion rate. As there was a comparison with Gaia Fut., I like to refer to his players stats also. (https://mzlive.eu/league/NO/Eliteserien/statistics/attacking/season/72/) You can see his central formward, Long has a 4,78 shots/goal rate. His AM, Birk Gudbrandsen has only 6,80. Very similar to what happens with your squad. If you'd ask me, there ara no hidden skills here.@darkline:

I took a look at MZLive (https://mzlive.eu/league/US/Major-League-Soccer/statistics/attacking/season/72/) and the tactics you used in your league game and where you've put your strikers (Brand, Plant, Otto).



I do not see something strange or unexplainable.
Plant is used as AM, and not as a real striker. He takes mare long distance shots than he takes headers from you winger passes. So he needs 7,33 shots per goal.

Brant and Otto have similar stats. You are using them as central forward in your wing-play tactic. They have very similar skills that affect there scoring ratio and they have very similar, explainable, scoring stats. Brandt 4,17 shots/goal and Otto 3,89 shots/goal.

As long as Plant is playing in another position than Brandt and Otto, it's very normal he has a lower conversion rate.

As there was a comparison with Gaia Fut., I like to refer to his players stats also. (https://mzlive.eu/league/NO/Eliteserien/statistics/attacking/season/72/)
You can see his central formward, Long has a 4,78 shots/goal rate. His AM, Birk Gudbrandsen has only 6,80. Very similar to what happens with your squad.

If you'd ask me, there ara no hidden skills here.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 03-12-2019 16:34

[FLUSA]
President

Otto starts the game, Brandt goes in at minute 50, supposedly the substitute that goes in should perform better, but Otto has 37 goals and Brandt has 24, that's an average of 2.3 goals for Otto and 1.5 goals for Tyrell, so despite similar stats Otto is about 30% more effective and that's despite the fact that Tyrell comes off the bench which theoretically means that he should be in better shape than the rest. In any case, on season 70 I was using a tactic with no wingers attacking through the center and I got tired of switching strikers around to see if I could get someone else to score, I wanted to use someone faster in that particular tactic but only Brandt was consistently scoring regardless where I put him. https://mzlive.eu/league/US/Major-League-Soccer/statistics/attacking/season/70/ That season 70, in 22 games Brandt scored 51 goals, Bou a guy that was a lot better including more experience at the time scored 13 goals, Plant scored just 1 goal and he was doing so poor that I tried 2 other strikers that where weaker on paper on 3 games, Donnie Houston and Jarell, both played 3 games and scored 1 goal each.

mwosle wrote:

Brant and Otto have similar stats. You are using them as central forward in your wing-play tactic. They have very similar skills that affect there scoring ratio and they have very similar, explainable, scoring stats. Brandt 4,17 shots/goal and Otto 3,89 shots/goal.

Otto starts the game, Brandt goes in at minute 50, supposedly the substitute that goes in should perform better, but Otto has 37 goals and Brandt has 24, that's an average of 2.3 goals for Otto and 1.5 goals for Tyrell, so despite similar stats Otto is about 30% more effective and that's despite the fact that Tyrell comes off the bench which theoretically means that he should be in better shape than the rest.

In any case, on season 70 I was using a tactic with no wingers attacking through the center and I got tired of switching strikers around to see if I could get someone else to score, I wanted to use someone faster in that particular tactic but only Brandt was consistently scoring regardless where I put him.

https://mzlive.eu/league/US/Major-League-Soccer/statistics/attacking/season/70/

That season 70, in 22 games Brandt scored 51 goals, Bou a guy that was a lot better including more experience at the time scored 13 goals, Plant scored just 1 goal and he was doing so poor that I tried 2 other strikers that where weaker on paper on 3 games, Donnie Houston and Jarell, both played 3 games and scored 1 goal each.

Edited: 03-12-2019 16:34
Total edits: 1

Ant: Are There Hidden Stats?

By mwosle (FA) - 03-12-2019 16:48

[DISCLL]

You shouldn't take into account the average goals/game but the goals/shot on goal. And they are similar when it comes to that. Can you expect Brandt to score more goals when his teammates are already a little tired, and thus less efficient? Maybe minute 50 is to early to make the substitute to make a difference in fitness. I can not say anything about your S70 stats as I do not know how Walter Bou looked like. MZLive only tells me the guy got less shots on goal, but had a similar conversion rate to Brandt. Bou 19.7%, Brandt 20%. Both were not bad for a short passing tactic. Bou had a lot better passing rate though.

darkline wrote:

Otto starts the game, Brandt goes in at minute 50, supposedly the substitute that goes in should perform better, but Otto has 37 goals and Brandt has 24, that's an average of 2.3 goals for Otto and 1.5 goals for Tyrell, so despite similar stats Otto is about 30% more effective and that's despite the fact that Tyrell comes off the bench which theoretically means that he should be in better shape than the rest.

In any case, on season 70 I was using a tactic with no wingers attacking through the center and I got tired of switching strikers around to see if I could get someone else to score, I wanted to use someone faster in that particular tactic but only Brandt was consistently scoring regardless where I put him.

https://mzlive.eu/league/US/Major-League-Soccer/statistics/attacking/season/70/

That season 70, in 22 games Brandt scored 51 goals, Bou a guy that was a lot better including more experience at the time scored 13 goals, Plant scored just 1 goal and he was doing so poor that I tried 2 other strikers that where weaker on paper on 3 games, Donnie Houston and Jarell, both played 3 games and scored 1 goal each.

You shouldn't take into account the average goals/game but the goals/shot on goal. And they are similar when it comes to that.
Can you expect Brandt to score more goals when his teammates are already a little tired, and thus less efficient?
Maybe minute 50 is to early to make the substitute to make a difference in fitness.

I can not say anything about your S70 stats as I do not know how Walter Bou looked like. MZLive only tells me the guy got less shots on goal, but had a similar conversion rate to Brandt. Bou 19.7%, Brandt 20%. Both were not bad for a short passing tactic. Bou had a lot better passing rate though.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 03-12-2019 20:16

[FLUSA]
President

Well, I take into account the goals and not the shots on goal for many reasons, we can see how the game is played on 2d/3d/analizer but that's just a representation of what was simulated, we don't know what calculations the SIM makes or how accurate that graphical representation is. Is he taking less shots because he's not getting in good positions to take shots?, is he passing the ball when he should be taking shots? (some strikers like to do that), that's the sort of thing we just don't know.... so basically, I have two similar players at the same position and all I know is one scores more goals than the other and is goals scored what wins games, so that's what matters to me.....

mwosle wrote:

You shouldn't take into account the average goals/game but the goals/shot on goal. And they are similar when it comes to that.

Well, I take into account the goals and not the shots on goal for many reasons, we can see how the game is played on 2d/3d/analizer but that's just a representation of what was simulated, we don't know what calculations the SIM makes or how accurate that graphical representation is. Is he taking less shots because he's not getting in good positions to take shots?, is he passing the ball when he should be taking shots? (some strikers like to do that), that's the sort of thing we just don't know.... so basically, I have two similar players at the same position and all I know is one scores more goals than the other and is goals scored what wins games, so that's what matters to me.....

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By rqa - 04-12-2019 13:52

[ᴀғʀɪᴄᴀ]

It's an interesting discussion, I'm learning a lot.It's an interesting discussion, I'm learning a lot.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By chucky06 - 04-12-2019 14:32

[AUSNZ]
President

@darkline Is the difference between your strikers evident in WL also? Having played the same tactic every game, your statistics and trial analysis has merit.@darkline

Is the difference between your strikers evident in WL also?

Having played the same tactic every game, your statistics and trial analysis has merit.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 04-12-2019 18:50

[FLUSA]
President

Well at WL and playing always the same tactic, in 22 games Plant got 11 goals playing 90 minutes, Lindholm 14 goals (playing 50/55 minutes) & Brandt (35 minutes per game) 17 goals

chucky06 wrote:

@darkline

Is the difference between your strikers evident in WL also?

Having played the same tactic every game, your statistics and trial analysis has merit.

Well at WL and playing always the same tactic, in 22 games Plant got 11 goals playing 90 minutes, Lindholm 14 goals (playing 50/55 minutes) & Brandt (35 minutes per game) 17 goals

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 04-12-2019 19:00

[FLUSA]
President

And those stars are pretty consistent too... at the Bessie league I also don't change tactics and in 21 games I got Lindholm 23 goals (50/55 minutes playtime), Brandt 21 goals (35 minutes PT) and Plant 10 goals. In any case what I'm going to do is enter a 3 Pool leagues, play a short passing tactic with 3 strikers through the center and on each league will assign the left striker, center striker, right striker to different players so I'll have a good measure of comparison.And those stars are pretty consistent too... at the Bessie league I also don't change tactics and in 21 games I got Lindholm 23 goals (50/55 minutes playtime), Brandt 21 goals (35 minutes PT) and Plant 10 goals.

In any case what I'm going to do is enter a 3 Pool leagues, play a short passing tactic with 3 strikers through the center and on each league will assign the left striker, center striker, right striker to different players so I'll have a good measure of comparison.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By franella82 - 06-12-2019 21:42

[CBA-MZ]

Your analysis is awfull, head have an average convertion ratio of 18 to 30% (dependant of your striker skills and minutes player). And foot shot have an 10 to 15% average. Some positions take a lot of less effective shots, and some Like centreforwards take more effective chances. Dont confuse noob mánagers please, hidden skills DONT EXIST

darkline wrote:

Your analysis is awfull, head have an average convertion ratio of 18 to 30% (dependant of your striker skills and minutes player).

And foot shot have an 10 to 15% average.

Some positions take a lot of less effective shots, and some Like centreforwards take more effective chances.

Dont confuse noob mánagers please, hidden skills DONT EXIST

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 06-12-2019 21:58

[FLUSA]
President

So what methodology you used to get this stat, considering that the in-game stats doesn't discriminate shots from headers?

franella82 wrote:

Your analysis is awfull, head have an average convertion ratio of 18 to 30% (dependant of your striker skills and minutes player).

And foot shot have an 10 to 15% average.

So what methodology you used to get this stat, considering that the in-game stats doesn't discriminate shots from headers?

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 06-12-2019 22:07

[FLUSA]
President

Btw, Australian NC hardly qualifies as a newbie, but you didn't say why you're so convinced that despite the fact that on every single offline manager game the players have a set of hidden skills, you believe with such conviction that hidden skills don't exist.... just want some data, not blind statements or stats pulled out of the thin air. I'm going to do some short passing experiments with friendly leagues and I'll have the results in a month, could help confirm or disprove my theory but it should be interesting.

franella82 wrote:

Dont confuse noob mánagers please, hidden skills DONT EXIST

Btw, Australian NC hardly qualifies as a newbie, but you didn't say why you're so convinced that despite the fact that on every single offline manager game the players have a set of hidden skills, you believe with such conviction that hidden skills don't exist.... just want some data, not blind statements or stats pulled out of the thin air.

I'm going to do some short passing experiments with friendly leagues and I'll have the results in a month, could help confirm or disprove my theory but it should be interesting.

Ant: Are There Hidden Stats?

By koopman - 07-12-2019 13:06

[CIA]

My example btw: These are the stats found on mzlive.eu [img]https://i.imgur.com/WADfKRu.png[/img] I find it kinda hard to believe that a few balls of PI has such a massive influence on goalscoring ability.My example btw:

koopman wrote:

I never said I didn't look at this ;-)
I just wondered how many people do this as well

I have been testing this season with 3 strikers (only my 3rd season since my comeback to MZ in january and this is the first season I have had good competition)
http://mzplayer.se/?id=1127132932

The first one is clearly the best for now. The third one doesn't even perform in wing tactics either (where the other two are replaced by: http://mzplayer.se/?id=1127132438)

However I've had bigger differences in performance in the past. My best striker ever had 8 speed.

These are the stats found on mzlive.eu


I find it kinda hard to believe that a few balls of PI has such a massive influence on goalscoring ability.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By chucky06 - 07-12-2019 14:09

[AUSNZ]
President

Clearly I’m not a noob and invest plenty of time into the game and analysis. I think your comments are a very arrogant. Credit you have a good side, play in the top league and have been a long standing member but that doesn’t mean you know everything. You not even being open to the factor they exist is also rather arrogant and naive. I wish some credible top managers would comment and share their experiences with this as they are out there.Clearly I’m not a noob and invest plenty of time into the game and analysis. I think your comments are a very arrogant.

Credit you have a good side, play in the top league and have been a long standing member but that doesn’t mean you know everything. You not even being open to the factor they exist is also rather arrogant and naive.

I wish some credible top managers would comment and share their experiences with this as they are out there.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By chucky06 - 07-12-2019 14:19

[AUSNZ]
President

Go and read posts on the first page of the closed thread “Mz the Downfall” from two of the current best managers in the game and possibly the best (iloveu and hanz) comparing strikers/ shots on target V goals and hidden talents. They in a round-a-bout way talk exactly about what we are talking about but you continually are fighting it. I think you may look at things differentlyGo and read posts on the first page of the closed thread “Mz the Downfall” from two of the current best managers in the game and possibly the best (iloveu and hanz) comparing strikers/ shots on target V goals and hidden talents.

They in a round-a-bout way talk exactly about what we are talking about but you continually are fighting it. I think you may look at things differently

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By franella82 - 07-12-2019 16:01

[CBA-MZ]

Well, thats all for me, If someone needs help to improve his team or to understand the sim without magic explanations send me a private message.

chucky06 wrote:

Well, thats all for me, If someone needs help to improve his team or to understand the sim without magic explanations send me a private message.

Ri: Are There Hidden Stats?

By levin23 - 11-12-2019 15:43

The real question is: why CREW don't answer about this issue? I think it's important to knowThe real question is: why CREW don't answer about this issue? I think it's important to know

Sv: Are There Hidden Stats?

By panboy - 11-12-2019 21:59

[LEGEND]

I have realised something about two attributes that explains the difference in goals between the American players mentioned, but I won’t tell my secrets ;) Also I think a 10 is a 10 and a 9 is a 9, equal for all players, but I think attributes work in more complex ways than for example higher shooting on the forward would automatically mean more goals by that player. There’s no I in team!I have realised something about two attributes that explains the difference in goals between the American players mentioned, but I won’t tell my secrets ;) Also I think a 10 is a 10 and a 9 is a 9, equal for all players, but I think attributes work in more complex ways than for example higher shooting on the forward would automatically mean more goals by that player. There’s no I in team!

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By frozen_boys - 12-12-2019 13:32

[FRF]

We have [b]evidence[/b] of [b]hidden stats[/b]. Recently with the new youth potential tool we are able to see one of this hidden stats, that for some players is still hidden; [color=red][b]training speed[/b][/color]. A few yers ago, with the previous youth training camp system, a crew member (if i remember correctly) said that the skills TC chooses are not the ones with the higher number of balls but the group of skills that best suits the players position he's talented in.We have evidence of hidden stats. Recently with the new youth potential tool we are able to see one of this hidden stats, that for some players is still hidden; training speed.

A few yers ago, with the previous youth training camp system, a crew member (if i remember correctly) said that the skills TC chooses are not the ones with the higher number of balls but the group of skills that best suits the players position he's talented in.

Re: Are There Hidden Stats?

By darkline - 12-12-2019 16:25

[FLUSA]
President

Well, good catch! That's a good example of a hidden attribute, an attribute each player has but was hidden until recently. So that's solid proof there was at least one hidden attribute that remained hidden until a few seasons ago, why would it be so hard to believe there are more?

frozen_boys wrote:

We have evidence of hidden stats. Recently with the new youth potential tool we are able to see one of this hidden stats, that for some players is still hidden; training speed

Well, good catch! That's a good example of a hidden attribute, an attribute each player has but was hidden until recently. So that's solid proof there was at least one hidden attribute that remained hidden until a few seasons ago, why would it be so hard to believe there are more?

 

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