Football » English » ManagerZone talk

Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By rubiton111 - 06-08-2019 01:02

[MZ U18]

I thing this is a mistake that should be fixed. This information should be private and buyer be ware. It has always been a gamble buying un-maxed players for big bucks. While this information is great for the buyer it is a horror story for the seller... I just think this makes it harder for the poor to get richer and easier for the richer to get richer... This should be the other way around in my opinion. Naturally opinions will be different on this issue but for my 2 cents, this is private information that should be private. So have at the discussion I guess :)I thing this is a mistake that should be fixed.

This information should be private and buyer be ware.

It has always been a gamble buying un-maxed players for big bucks.

While this information is great for the buyer it is a horror story for the seller...

I just think this makes it harder for the poor to get richer and easier for the richer to get richer...

This should be the other way around in my opinion.

Naturally opinions will be different on this issue but for my 2 cents, this is private information that should be private.

So have at the discussion I guess :)

 

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Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By zachw - 06-08-2019 02:10

[ENG]

100% Agreed100% Agreed

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By superdad123 - 06-08-2019 02:45

[ENG]

Yes 100%Yes 100%

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By simbo737 - 06-08-2019 03:36

[PIARA]

+1 100%+1 100%

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By rugsal - 06-08-2019 03:51

[FLUSA]

+ 100%+ 100%

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By chucky06 - 06-08-2019 04:57

[AUSNZ]
President

Agreed! It further enhances inflation in the game. The top players are now worth even more because of it and teams trying to close the gap will find it even harder. To invest so much into youth and grow the player base of a small country to have only two sellable players for any decent profit is hurting the growth of smaller countries.Agreed!

It further enhances inflation in the game. The top players are now worth even more because of it and teams trying to close the gap will find it even harder.

To invest so much into youth and grow the player base of a small country to have only two sellable players for any decent profit is hurting the growth of smaller countries.

Odg.: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By elgoranian (LA) (NCA) - 06-08-2019 07:20

[Ex Yu]

Agreed!Agreed!

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By deleted_5240478 - 06-08-2019 09:21

AgreedAgreed

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By darkline - 06-08-2019 11:03

[FLUSA]
President

All the players we have on the market have not been trained with the scouting information in mind, so it's a mixed bag, if you're lucky you got a good report and if you're unlucky you might have trained a 4 star keeper as a striker, now we can swap players until we get a graph we like, so how this really pays out won't be known until the current batch of 16 y/olds trained under this new system graduates. Also, if you hide the graph we'll have new problems, like people posting fake training graphs, cheating will be harder to control, etc. etc.All the players we have on the market have not been trained with the scouting information in mind, so it's a mixed bag, if you're lucky you got a good report and if you're unlucky you might have trained a 4 star keeper as a striker, now we can swap players until we get a graph we like, so how this really pays out won't be known until the current batch of 16 y/olds trained under this new system graduates.

Also, if you hide the graph we'll have new problems, like people posting fake training graphs, cheating will be harder to control, etc. etc.

Odp: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By firefox78 - 06-08-2019 12:07

[DC]

Hiding the scout report is a simple way to increase the scale of fraud (cheating). The scout report was introduced to optimize the training of players. Training of players does not end at junior age. Hiding this report will make the change lose a lot of sense. I do not like that this report contains so much information, but let it stay as it is. Prices on the transfer market of young players with this report are at an acceptable level. Some players gained in value and others lost on this change. I personally lost on this change for today, but maybe I will gain in the future. The scout's report makes it easier to build a team based on their pupils, so new players and teams from fewer nationalities will definitely benefit from it.Hiding the scout report is a simple way to increase the scale of fraud (cheating). The scout report was introduced to optimize the training of players. Training of players does not end at junior age. Hiding this report will make the change lose a lot of sense. I do not like that this report contains so much information, but let it stay as it is. Prices on the transfer market of young players with this report are at an acceptable level. Some players gained in value and others lost on this change. I personally lost on this change for today, but maybe I will gain in the future. The scout's report makes it easier to build a team based on their pupils, so new players and teams from fewer nationalities will definitely benefit from it.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By powdersnow (Crew) - 06-08-2019 14:03

[BFTF]

This isn't black and white, and there are arguments to be made both for and against showing it. Safe to say we have had discussions about this very topic in the office and we do not always agree with each other on everything. :) I am a strong advocate of keeping it visible because I want all players to have the same information in the transfer market. A player should have a certain value because he has certain skills/potential skills, and the supply and demand for those skills should decide the value. By being savvy and experienced, a manager will become good at judging player value, and by being persistent and patient, a manager will be able to make bargains in the transfer market. However, making a bargain in the transfer market because a selling team did not make scout reports visible (when he/she should have done so), is not about being smart. It is just about being lucky and capitalizing on somebody's misfortune or poor understanding of the game. This is my subjective view of course, I am not saying that I've got the right answer. But I feel strongly that allowing users to make money by preying on the "less knowing" is not the right way to go. I also really like how the market is a lot more complex now. You have more information to go on, you can do more research about players and thus become a really strong market player. You can make a lot of money this way if you know what you are doing. I can remember the old days when there were no visible info about maxings at all. Buyers would ask sellers questions about maxings, and frequently they would be told lies. This caused bad blood in the game and some players would sell for a lot of money based on lies. A similar situation could arise with hidden scout reports. In addition to all that, darkline and firefox both have a good point about cheating and fraud associated with hidden info. Keeping things transparent is a great way to keep the game clean. @rubiton111: You say this is a horror story for the seller. Well, only if you are trying to make a player look better than he actually is, right? The report lets both you and the buyer know roughly what kind of player you have. I don't see the problem with that.This isn't black and white, and there are arguments to be made both for and against showing it. Safe to say we have had discussions about this very topic in the office and we do not always agree with each other on everything. :)

I am a strong advocate of keeping it visible because I want all players to have the same information in the transfer market. A player should have a certain value because he has certain skills/potential skills, and the supply and demand for those skills should decide the value. By being savvy and experienced, a manager will become good at judging player value, and by being persistent and patient, a manager will be able to make bargains in the transfer market.

However, making a bargain in the transfer market because a selling team did not make scout reports visible (when he/she should have done so), is not about being smart. It is just about being lucky and capitalizing on somebody's misfortune or poor understanding of the game.

This is my subjective view of course, I am not saying that I've got the right answer. But I feel strongly that allowing users to make money by preying on the "less knowing" is not the right way to go. I also really like how the market is a lot more complex now. You have more information to go on, you can do more research about players and thus become a really strong market player. You can make a lot of money this way if you know what you are doing.

I can remember the old days when there were no visible info about maxings at all. Buyers would ask sellers questions about maxings, and frequently they would be told lies. This caused bad blood in the game and some players would sell for a lot of money based on lies. A similar situation could arise with hidden scout reports.

In addition to all that, darkline and firefox both have a good point about cheating and fraud associated with hidden info. Keeping things transparent is a great way to keep the game clean.

@rubiton111: You say this is a horror story for the seller. Well, only if you are trying to make a player look better than he actually is, right? The report lets both you and the buyer know roughly what kind of player you have. I don't see the problem with that.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By powdersnow (Crew) - 06-08-2019 14:11

[BFTF]

I don't see how this is the scout report's fault. You should be able to produce lots of good players still, more than before in fact since you have more to go on. But yes, if you keep training your youth players until they max out in key skills, then there is not any more mystery left to be unveiled. This "mystery" is what causes buyers to speculate and that will drive up the price of the player. In other words, an unmaxed 8 is worth a lot more than a maxed 9. Unless I am missing something here, please let me know if that is the case. :)

chucky06 wrote:

To invest so much into youth and grow the player base of a small country to have only two sellable players for any decent profit is hurting the growth of smaller countries.

I don't see how this is the scout report's fault. You should be able to produce lots of good players still, more than before in fact since you have more to go on. But yes, if you keep training your youth players until they max out in key skills, then there is not any more mystery left to be unveiled. This "mystery" is what causes buyers to speculate and that will drive up the price of the player. In other words, an unmaxed 8 is worth a lot more than a maxed 9.

Unless I am missing something here, please let me know if that is the case. :)

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By chucky06 - 06-08-2019 15:09

[AUSNZ]
President

You make some really good points in the post above in response to some of the comments which I agree with. What I was concerned with, which I probably didn’t articulate very well above is the lack of “mystery” as you call it. Now when selling an average player with everyone’s potential available to see that the only skill of note he hadn’t trained in is showing low potential you might as well discard now instead where previously someone would gamble on them reaching a high amount of balls and becoming a decent player. The new youth potential being open on the transfer market now further polarises the top young talent and the bottom. This leads to young talent selling for further ridiculous prices that only the top teams can afford and doesn’t help grow the game or it’s appeal to new manages as they can never seem to match it with long standing teams.

powdersnow wrote:

I don't see how this is the scout report's fault. You should be able to produce lots of good players still, more than before in fact since you have more to go on. But yes, if you keep training your youth players until they max out in key skills, then there is not any more mystery left to be unveiled. This "mystery" is what causes buyers to speculate and that will drive up the price of the player. In other words, an unmaxed 8 is worth a lot more than a maxed 9.

Unless I am missing something here, please let me know if that is the case. :)

You make some really good points in the post above in response to some of the comments which I agree with. What I was concerned with, which I probably didn’t articulate very well above is the lack of “mystery” as you call it. Now when selling an average player with everyone’s potential available to see that the only skill of note he hadn’t trained in is showing low potential you might as well discard now instead where previously someone would gamble on them reaching a high amount of balls and becoming a decent player.

The new youth potential being open on the transfer market now further polarises the top young talent and the bottom. This leads to young talent selling for further ridiculous prices that only the top teams can afford and doesn’t help grow the game or it’s appeal to new manages as they can never seem to match it with long standing teams.

Odp: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By firefox78 - 06-08-2019 15:59

[DC]

@chucky06 - "The new youth potential being open on the transfer market now further polarises the top young talent and the bottom" I agree with this statement, but the question of the definition of young talent remains. A player who will almost certainly become a star will always cost a lot of money. However, players who are no longer so sure will cost relatively less. I paid less than 100k euros for the majority of new 19 year olds. In a few seasons they can be both stars and players worth nothing. For me, such a system is fine. Rich can always more. That is why it is important to focus first and foremost on basic work. At present, money can be quickly earned and a fight with the best can be made quickly. Pay attention to how the potential of the teams flattened. In stronger nations there are small differences between the three strongest leagues. Often, the teams from the 2nd league easily defeat those from the top league, because they have players of similar, and even greater skills.@chucky06 - "The new youth potential being open on the transfer market now further polarises the top young talent and the bottom"

I agree with this statement, but the question of the definition of young talent remains. A player who will almost certainly become a star will always cost a lot of money. However, players who are no longer so sure will cost relatively less. I paid less than 100k euros for the majority of new 19 year olds. In a few seasons they can be both stars and players worth nothing. For me, such a system is fine. Rich can always more. That is why it is important to focus first and foremost on basic work. At present, money can be quickly earned and a fight with the best can be made quickly. Pay attention to how the potential of the teams flattened. In stronger nations there are small differences between the three strongest leagues. Often, the teams from the 2nd league easily defeat those from the top league, because they have players of similar, and even greater skills.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By mayunga - 06-08-2019 18:05

[World]

I agree with this totally.

rubiton111 wrote:

I thing this is a mistake that should be fixed.

This information should be private and buyer be ware.

It has always been a gamble buying un-maxed players for big bucks.

While this information is great for the buyer it is a horror story for the seller...

I just think this makes it harder for the poor to get richer and easier for the richer to get richer...

This should be the other way around in my opinion.

Naturally opinions will be different on this issue but for my 2 cents, this is private information that should be private.

So have at the discussion I guess :)

I agree with this totally.

Sv: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By panboy - 08-08-2019 06:18

[LEGEND]

"I can remember the old days when there were no visible info about maxings at all. Buyers would ask sellers questions about maxings, and frequently they would be told lies. This caused bad blood in the game and some players would sell for a lot of money based on lies. A similar situation could arise with hidden scout reports." Agree 100%. To maintain a game without the lies we used to have is more important than any of the other points made here. About the youth with low potential being sold for less now, I don't think managers will have youth with low potential going through the three seasons in their youth system at all. The players we see on the market now with 2 stars won't be there anymore soon. The thing to concider for sellers will be how long to keep their high potential youths before selling."I can remember the old days when there were no visible info about maxings at all. Buyers would ask sellers questions about maxings, and frequently they would be told lies. This caused bad blood in the game and some players would sell for a lot of money based on lies. A similar situation could arise with hidden scout reports."

Agree 100%. To maintain a game without the lies we used to have is more important than any of the other points made here.

About the youth with low potential being sold for less now, I don't think managers will have youth with low potential going through the three seasons in their youth system at all. The players we see on the market now with 2 stars won't be there anymore soon. The thing to concider for sellers will be how long to keep their high potential youths before selling.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By rubiton111 - 08-08-2019 07:34

[MZ U18]

No one pays big bucks for a player not showing Training Graph... The graph makes your argument null and void. This is new, extra, and private information that only you should know about.

panboy wrote:

"I can remember the old days when there were no visible info about maxings at all. Buyers would ask sellers questions about maxings, and frequently they would be told lies. This caused bad blood in the game and some players would sell for a lot of money based on lies. A similar situation could arise with hidden scout reports."

Agree 100%. To maintain a game without the lies we used to have is more important than any of the other points made here.

About the youth with low potential being sold for less now, I don't think managers will have youth with low potential going through the three seasons in their youth system at all. The players we see on the market now with 2 stars won't be there anymore soon. The thing to concider for sellers will be how long to keep their high potential youths before selling.

No one pays big bucks for a player not showing Training Graph... The graph makes your argument null and void.

This is new, extra, and private information that only you should know about.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By powdersnow (Crew) - 08-08-2019 10:17

[BFTF]

I agree. We are in the middle of a transition period and things will look a bit different a few seasons from now. Some, I think, are having trouble fusing the old way of dealing with youths, with the new information that comes out of the reports. Just because a youth have scouted well for speed and shooting, does not mean that you necessarily have to take those skills to the max. The player would probably be much more valuable if you didn't. It is all a bout being tactical. Those who have a carefully thought out plan around [b]each youth[/b] will gain a lot more in the market. You have to decide early if you want to keep a player or sell him. If you want to sell, then you need to prepare an appealing package to the potential customer. You have to "derisk" him, but without taking too big risks yourself. You also should mold him into a role so the buyer has some sense of what he/she is buying. You will get burned some times along the way but in the long run you will profit. It means you gotta put in the time and the thinking, but the more you care about the small details, the faster your club will develop. This is key if you are a newer user and want to reach the top fast. So I don't believe that visible reports will benefit the already wealthy, I think it is the other way around. It will benefit those who do the legwork (as opposed to before, when it mainly benefited those who got lucky). If I am missing something then please point it out. But I'd like to see a bit stronger reasoning than what's been shown so far in the thread, because they haven't been very convincing. 😉

panboy wrote:

About the youth with low potential being sold for less now, I don't think managers will have youth with low potential going through the three seasons in their youth system at all. The players we see on the market now with 2 stars won't be there anymore soon. The thing to concider for sellers will be how long to keep their high potential youths before selling.

I agree. We are in the middle of a transition period and things will look a bit different a few seasons from now. Some, I think, are having trouble fusing the old way of dealing with youths, with the new information that comes out of the reports.

Just because a youth have scouted well for speed and shooting, does not mean that you necessarily have to take those skills to the max. The player would probably be much more valuable if you didn't. It is all a bout being tactical. Those who have a carefully thought out plan around each youth will gain a lot more in the market. You have to decide early if you want to keep a player or sell him. If you want to sell, then you need to prepare an appealing package to the potential customer. You have to "derisk" him, but without taking too big risks yourself. You also should mold him into a role so the buyer has some sense of what he/she is buying. You will get burned some times along the way but in the long run you will profit.

It means you gotta put in the time and the thinking, but the more you care about the small details, the faster your club will develop. This is key if you are a newer user and want to reach the top fast. So I don't believe that visible reports will benefit the already wealthy, I think it is the other way around. It will benefit those who do the legwork (as opposed to before, when it mainly benefited those who got lucky).

If I am missing something then please point it out. But I'd like to see a bit stronger reasoning than what's been shown so far in the thread, because they haven't been very convincing. 😉

Odp: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By firefox78 - 08-08-2019 14:14

[DC]

@rubiton111 This is how you can buy a player with high potential worth millions for a small price. The perfect tool for those who like to cheat.@rubiton111

rubiton111 wrote:

No one pays big bucks for a player not showing Training Graph...

This is how you can buy a player with high potential worth millions for a small price. The perfect tool for those who like to cheat.

Ant: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By yenscallens123 - 08-08-2019 16:07

[BNL]

Hey Crew, is the idea of a percentage on each sale of a player to their club of formation, of the table? I would love to have, even if it's only 5%, a reward for teams who train youth products well.

powdersnow wrote:

This isn't black and white, and there are arguments to be made both for and against showing it. Safe to say we have had discussions about this very topic in the office and we do not always agree with each other on everything. :)

I am a strong advocate of keeping it visible because I want all players to have the same information in the transfer market. A player should have a certain value because he has certain skills/potential skills, and the supply and demand for those skills should decide the value. By being savvy and experienced, a manager will become good at judging player value, and by being persistent and patient, a manager will be able to make bargains in the transfer market.

However, making a bargain in the transfer market because a selling team did not make scout reports visible (when he/she should have done so), is not about being smart. It is just about being lucky and capitalizing on somebody's misfortune or poor understanding of the game.

This is my subjective view of course, I am not saying that I've got the right answer. But I feel strongly that allowing users to make money by preying on the "less knowing" is not the right way to go. I also really like how the market is a lot more complex now. You have more information to go on, you can do more research about players and thus become a really strong market player. You can make a lot of money this way if you know what you are doing.

I can remember the old days when there were no visible info about maxings at all. Buyers would ask sellers questions about maxings, and frequently they would be told lies. This caused bad blood in the game and some players would sell for a lot of money based on lies. A similar situation could arise with hidden scout reports.

In addition to all that, darkline and firefox both have a good point about cheating and fraud associated with hidden info. Keeping things transparent is a great way to keep the game clean.

@rubiton111: You say this is a horror story for the seller. Well, only if you are trying to make a player look better than he actually is, right? The report lets both you and the buyer know roughly what kind of player you have. I don't see the problem with that.

Hey Crew, is the idea of a percentage on each sale of a player to their club of formation, of the table? I would love to have, even if it's only 5%, a reward for teams who train youth products well.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By rubiton111 - 08-08-2019 19:35

[MZ U18]

Just because a youth have scouted well for speed and shooting, does not mean that you necessarily have to take those skills to the max. The player would probably be much more valuable if you didn't. It is all a bout being tactical. Those who have a carefully thought out plan around [b]each youth[/b] will gain a lot more in the market. You have to decide early if you want to keep a player or sell him. If you want to sell, then you need to prepare an appealing package to the potential customer. You have to "derisk" him, but without taking too big risks yourself. You also should mold him into a role so the buyer has some sense of what he/she is buying. You will get burned some times along the way but in the long run you will profit. It means you gotta put in the time and the thinking, but the more you care about the small details, the faster your club will develop. This is key if you are a newer user and want to reach the top fast. So I don't believe that visible reports will benefit the already wealthy, I think it is the other way around. It will benefit those who do the legwork (as opposed to before, when it mainly benefited those who got lucky). If I am missing something then please point it out. But I'd like to see a bit stronger reasoning than what's been shown so far in the thread, because they haven't been very convincing. 😉[/quote] What you have done here is great but should be Private information and here is why. You have created this thinking your the purchaser, you have 100% ignored the position of the Seller! I am a poor team and need cash with this new development the "ONLY WAY" I can make a buck is to sell my BEST PLAYERS. You have now removed the risk for the buyer and removed the "deception" from the seller. Buyer has a unrealistic crystal ball. Seller has no deception. For instance... I have a player 4 stars Speed and Tackling, but I am a wing player and he has 1 Star Ariel Passing, So I am pretty sure he is not getting past 6 Ariel passing. So I train him to 9-10 Speed/Tackling maybe 8 Stamina 6-7 Ball control. Now I sell him un-maxed. People see he is one star Ariel passing and the crystal ball turns my Millions into Cents. Your creating a buyers market and seller be dammed. THERE HAS TO BE SOME RISK FOR THE BUYER AND SOME DECEPTION FOR THE SELLER PLEASE!Just because a youth have scouted well for speed and shooting, does not mean that you necessarily have to take those skills to the max. The player would probably be much more valuable if you didn't. It is all a bout being tactical. Those who have a carefully thought out plan around each youth will gain a lot more in the market. You have to decide early if you want to keep a player or sell him. If you want to sell, then you need to prepare an appealing package to the potential customer. You have to "derisk" him, but without taking too big risks yourself. You also should mold him into a role so the buyer has some sense of what he/she is buying. You will get burned some times along the way but in the long run you will profit.

It means you gotta put in the time and the thinking, but the more you care about the small details, the faster your club will develop. This is key if you are a newer user and want to reach the top fast. So I don't believe that visible reports will benefit the already wealthy, I think it is the other way around. It will benefit those who do the legwork (as opposed to before, when it mainly benefited those who got lucky).

If I am missing something then please point it out. But I'd like to see a bit stronger reasoning than what's been shown so far in the thread, because they haven't been very convincing. 😉[/quote]


What you have done here is great but should be Private information and here is why.

You have created this thinking your the purchaser, you have 100% ignored the position of the Seller!

I am a poor team and need cash with this new development the "ONLY WAY" I can make a buck is to sell my BEST PLAYERS.

You have now removed the risk for the buyer and removed the "deception" from the seller.

Buyer has a unrealistic crystal ball.

Seller has no deception.

For instance...

I have a player 4 stars Speed and Tackling, but I am a wing player and he has 1 Star Ariel Passing, So I am pretty sure he is not getting past 6 Ariel passing.

So I train him to 9-10 Speed/Tackling maybe 8 Stamina 6-7 Ball control.

Now I sell him un-maxed. People see he is one star Ariel passing and the crystal ball turns my Millions into Cents.

Your creating a buyers market and seller be dammed.

THERE HAS TO BE SOME RISK FOR THE BUYER AND SOME DECEPTION FOR THE SELLER PLEASE!

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By rubiton111 - 08-08-2019 19:44

[MZ U18]

Also please consider this while you think about the Poor Buyer of a player. People do not have to buy the player. PEOPLE DO HAVE TO SELL THEM FOR PROFIT AS A NECESSITY. P.S I have 20 million in the bank and just spent 34 Million on youth players this season. So I am not talking from my pocket. I don't need to sell players :)Also please consider this while you think about the Poor Buyer of a player.

People do not have to buy the player.

PEOPLE DO HAVE TO SELL THEM FOR PROFIT AS A NECESSITY.

P.S I have 20 million in the bank and just spent 34 Million on youth players this season. So I am not talking from my pocket. I don't need to sell players :)

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By darkline - 08-08-2019 20:17

[FLUSA]
President

Is just a paradigm shift, you will get more money for players that before no one would have paid more that $100K due to the unknown risk and you get less for players that have no future, with the difference that people is more willing to expend lots of money on players they think will be stars due to their scout report and the scout report really doesn't guarantee anything at all.... For example, this guy went for $1.5M, I had interest in buying him but for no more than $200K [img]https://i.ibb.co/ynwmzHV/111111.jpg[/img] The report said 4 stars heading/tackling & 2 stars passing/set plays.... but despite the fact nothing on this report suggest this player might not max at 6 speed or stamina, some people puts a lot of faith on the scout report and really overbids.... I imagine if he was 4 stars on stamina instead of heading, the price of this player would be 2 or 3 times more.... So if anything, the argument for the poor manager that can't sell his players for good money is a moot point... if anything, the poor manager will be able to train players specifically for the market if he wants to and I'm sure some risk taking managers will pay much more than they would without this scout report.Is just a paradigm shift, you will get more money for players that before no one would have paid more that $100K due to the unknown risk and you get less for players that have no future, with the difference that people is more willing to expend lots of money on players they think will be stars due to their scout report and the scout report really doesn't guarantee anything at all....

For example, this guy went for $1.5M, I had interest in buying him but for no more than $200K



The report said 4 stars heading/tackling & 2 stars passing/set plays.... but despite the fact nothing on this report suggest this player might not max at 6 speed or stamina, some people puts a lot of faith on the scout report and really overbids.... I imagine if he was 4 stars on stamina instead of heading, the price of this player would be 2 or 3 times more....

So if anything, the argument for the poor manager that can't sell his players for good money is a moot point... if anything, the poor manager will be able to train players specifically for the market if he wants to and I'm sure some risk taking managers will pay much more than they would without this scout report.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By rubiton111 - 08-08-2019 22:30

[MZ U18]

[color=red]There is a simple way for you as Crew to please everyone, as with the Training Graph - Make it so I can chose to show my players Training report. If I CHOOSE not to show it, the buyer has a clue I am hiding something.[/color]There is a simple way for you as Crew to please everyone, as with the Training Graph - Make it so I can chose to show my players Training report. If I CHOOSE not to show it, the buyer has a clue I am hiding something.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By chucky06 - 09-08-2019 04:59

[AUSNZ]
President

If what you mentioned was the case then the seller would need to pay for the information they currently obtain for free (scout report) and significantly to offset this.

rubiton111 wrote:

There is a simple way for you as Crew to please everyone, as with the Training Graph - Make it so I can chose to show my players Training report. If I CHOOSE not to show it, the buyer has a clue I am hiding something.

If what you mentioned was the case then the seller would need to pay for the information they currently obtain for free (scout report) and significantly to offset this.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By darkline - 09-08-2019 11:19

[FLUSA]
President

There are two things someone might want to hide, either the scout info says the player will have a critical maxing or a cheater might try to hide a graph of a player with great potential to pay little money for it. In the 1st scenario you won't get much money if you hide the graph because people knows you're hiding something critical and on the 2nd scenario you're only helping cheaters. Additionally, I'm sure in 3 seasons few players will graduate with poor scouting reports as I'd imagine most people will swap them for better prospects. So why would anyone want the option to hide the scouting report if the cons outweigh the pros? if there are any pros at all in the first place.

rubiton111 wrote:

There is a simple way for you as Crew to please everyone, as with the Training Graph - Make it so I can chose to show my players Training report. If I CHOOSE not to show it, the buyer has a clue I am hiding something.

There are two things someone might want to hide, either the scout info says the player will have a critical maxing or a cheater might try to hide a graph of a player with great potential to pay little money for it.

In the 1st scenario you won't get much money if you hide the graph because people knows you're hiding something critical and on the 2nd scenario you're only helping cheaters. Additionally, I'm sure in 3 seasons few players will graduate with poor scouting reports as I'd imagine most people will swap them for better prospects.

So why would anyone want the option to hide the scouting report if the cons outweigh the pros? if there are any pros at all in the first place.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By theloyalone - 03-09-2019 17:14

I'm sorry but, i disagree with you on this. Capitalizing on somebody's misfortune is not necessarily down to luck, it's also about being shrewd. Isn't that how the world works - Survival of the fittest ? One can't expect everyone to have the same knowledge about something...there will be the shrewd guys, and there will be the dumb guys too..it takes a shrewd manager to get the best out of even the weakest players in the Transfer Market ;)

powdersnow wrote:

However, making a bargain in the transfer market because a selling team did not make scout reports visible (when he/she should have done so), is not about being smart. It is just about being lucky and capitalizing on somebody's misfortune or poor understanding of the game.

But I feel strongly that allowing users to make money by preying on the "less knowing" is not the right way to go.

I'm sorry but, i disagree with you on this. Capitalizing on somebody's misfortune is not necessarily down to luck, it's also about being shrewd. Isn't that how the world works - Survival of the fittest ?

One can't expect everyone to have the same knowledge about something...there will be the shrewd guys, and there will be the dumb guys too..it takes a shrewd manager to get the best out of even the weakest players in the Transfer Market ;)

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By theloyalone - 03-09-2019 17:17

But again, as developers and owners of the game, I can understand that ideally you'd want that all play in a fair and equal environment, and the weak aren't exploited for their lack of ability, so I understand your viewpoint there :)But again, as developers and owners of the game, I can understand that ideally you'd want that all play in a fair and equal environment, and the weak aren't exploited for their lack of ability, so I understand your viewpoint there :)

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By zachw - 03-09-2019 17:27

[ENG]

Agreed 100%, when i signed up to the game i sold most of my 19 Year olds, come to this season, at least 2 of them are in the U21's and possibly going into national level hence i wish i never sold them, i still stand that scouting should be private because it inflates the price of players for example since the english market tends to be 2 to 3 pages, the players which are 4 star potential sell for a lot while if they were private and someone bought them for cheap and got them which would happen a lot if they were not active which i think is a good thing

theloyalone wrote:

I'm sorry but, i disagree with you on this. Capitalizing on somebody's misfortune is not necessarily down to luck, it's also about being shrewd. Isn't that how the world works - Survival of the fittest ?

One can't expect everyone to have the same knowledge about something...there will be the shrewd guys, and there will be the dumb guys too..it takes a shrewd manager to get the best out of even the weakest players in the Transfer Market ;)

Agreed 100%, when i signed up to the game i sold most of my 19 Year olds, come to this season, at least 2 of them are in the U21's and possibly going into national level hence i wish i never sold them, i still stand that scouting should be private because it inflates the price of players for example since the english market tends to be 2 to 3 pages, the players which are 4 star potential sell for a lot while if they were private and someone bought them for cheap and got them which would happen a lot if they were not active which i think is a good thing

Sv: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By powdersnow (Crew) - 05-09-2019 17:53

[BFTF]

Well, this is the first argument in this thread that I can understand - preying on ignorance can be fun, and some are probably too ignorant to understand they've been preyed upon, hence some sort of positive value has been created. I don't agree it'll make a better game, but I see where you are coming from.

theloyalone wrote:

I'm sorry but, i disagree with you on this. Capitalizing on somebody's misfortune is not necessarily down to luck, it's also about being shrewd. Isn't that how the world works - Survival of the fittest ?

One can't expect everyone to have the same knowledge about something...there will be the shrewd guys, and there will be the dumb guys too..it takes a shrewd manager to get the best out of even the weakest players in the Transfer Market ;)

Well, this is the first argument in this thread that I can understand - preying on ignorance can be fun, and some are probably too ignorant to understand they've been preyed upon, hence some sort of positive value has been created. I don't agree it'll make a better game, but I see where you are coming from.

Re: Scouting Potential Visible (Should be private)

By civilu - 08-10-2019 08:20

[RAF]
President

The problem with hidden graphs or scout info is that it MAY give a seller the luck of preying on a weak buyer OR it may give the chance to obtain illegal money (arranged transfer). Since neither is ethical, I say NO to both. Look at the transfer market for some time now, weak players sell for little money but no graph players sell for even less, if they even sell at all. Why would you want to not show something, as a seller? For me it only means something hidden so, getting back to the first lines, it means something unethical. I know some noobs or beginners might not know to check the "publish training graph" box. However, this is an exception. I keep very little contact with the game lately (for some years now) however TRAINING IS ONE OF THE TWO FUN PARTS OF MZ and making it less fraud-prone and more ethical is always a good thing. PS: Training graphs are never a sure thing - even if you see a full cercle in the last days a player might still max in the next ball and ruin all your dreams. The same goes for the new scout reports - he might have 4* in shooting and speed but he might max at 5 stamina (same old story, even before) so again, the info is key but there is still a lot to be managed or handled or played with to keep us ionterested while keeping the game transparent. And the elimination of cheating "tools" and exploits in this game is probably one of the reasons why there is less teams in the game, especially Chinese and Turkish... as well as Romanian, for that matter (I really am not, in any way, offending these communities but I'm talking about a phenomenon that we know so well happened in some years).

powdersnow wrote:

Well, this is the first argument in this thread that I can understand - preying on ignorance can be fun, and some are probably too ignorant to understand they've been preyed upon, hence some sort of positive value has been created. I don't agree it'll make a better game, but I see where you are coming from.

The problem with hidden graphs or scout info is that it MAY give a seller the luck of preying on a weak buyer OR it may give the chance to obtain illegal money (arranged transfer). Since neither is ethical, I say NO to both.

Look at the transfer market for some time now, weak players sell for little money but no graph players sell for even less, if they even sell at all. Why would you want to not show something, as a seller? For me it only means something hidden so, getting back to the first lines, it means something unethical.

I know some noobs or beginners might not know to check the "publish training graph" box. However, this is an exception.

I keep very little contact with the game lately (for some years now) however TRAINING IS ONE OF THE TWO FUN PARTS OF MZ and making it less fraud-prone and more ethical is always a good thing.

PS: Training graphs are never a sure thing - even if you see a full cercle in the last days a player might still max in the next ball and ruin all your dreams. The same goes for the new scout reports - he might have 4* in shooting and speed but he might max at 5 stamina (same old story, even before) so again, the info is key but there is still a lot to be managed or handled or played with to keep us ionterested while keeping the game transparent.

And the elimination of cheating "tools" and exploits in this game is probably one of the reasons why there is less teams in the game, especially Chinese and Turkish... as well as Romanian, for that matter (I really am not, in any way, offending these communities but I'm talking about a phenomenon that we know so well happened in some years).

 

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