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Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 12-06-2019 12:07

[FLUSA]
President

Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit. So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper: [img]https://snag.gy/03nShj.jpg[/img] And I got this scout report for him [img]https://snag.gy/YVhgST.jpg[/img] So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"? I really like that we can check out current youths btw.Just opened this thread to discuss the Youth Potential tool and share your experiences, also to try to figure it out a bit.

So I have a weird case, I have this player that I'm training as a keeper:



And I got this scout report for him



So my guess is my project of keeper will be a waste and will max out at 8 keeping, but here's what I'm puzzle about, his low skills are shooting/pi at 2 stars but I already know his keeping will be at least 8.... so it seems for this tool, "2 stars = 8 balls"?

I really like that we can check out current youths btw.

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Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 16-08-2019 10:51

[MZ-TR]

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/simulation [b]Simulation[/b]: a situation in which a particular set of conditions is created artificially in order to study or experience something that could exist in reality. My Python code is simulating every 282,475,249 (7^10) combinations of given skills and then analyze the results. Since you are such an expert, I'd really like to see how you do that on excel ;) In engineering, we use simulations in order to cut off the experiment costs. It is an invaluable tool for us. When designing something, we make 3-5 experiments and analyze the results. Then we crate a mathematical model of the system and derive empirical formulas if necessary. This enables us to simulate the system on amazing simulation programs like ADAMS. Now, in my career so far, I've never seen or heard anyone using Excel for any kind of simulation. Care to tell us how you do it? I am really interested.https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/simulation
Simulation: a situation in which a particular set of conditions is created artificially in order to study or experience something that could exist in reality.

My Python code is simulating every 282,475,249 (7^10) combinations of given skills and then analyze the results. Since you are such an expert, I'd really like to see how you do that on excel ;)

In engineering, we use simulations in order to cut off the experiment costs. It is an invaluable tool for us. When designing something, we make 3-5 experiments and analyze the results. Then we crate a mathematical model of the system and derive empirical formulas if necessary. This enables us to simulate the system on amazing simulation programs like ADAMS.

Now, in my career so far, I've never seen or heard anyone using Excel for any kind of simulation. Care to tell us how you do it? I am really interested.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 16-08-2019 11:03

[MZ-TR]

Sorry [b]kostrzak16[/b] I forgot to thank you for all your help and showing me my mistakes. It would take at least an other month without you.

kostrzak16 wrote:

@cholee sorry but your calculations are just wrong. Even now you have on transfer list 2 HP player that will have at least 40 in top 5 skills. Instead calculating possible scenarios and comparing it to CREW numbers (chances for maxing were never confirmed) we should just look on the transfer list and make conclusions based on real data.

From my and engerek's observations it is (for HP):

4 Stars: Sum of 4 skills is 37 and above (Min 9)
3 Stars: Sum of 4 skills is between 34-36 (Min 8, Probably 9)
2 Stars: Sum of 4 skills is between 24-33
1 Stars: Sum of 4 skills is 23 and below.

I am still waiting for someone to find a player who doesn't fit into it.

Sorry kostrzak16 I forgot to thank you for all your help and showing me my mistakes. It would take at least an other month without you.

Sv: Youth Potential Tool

By panboy - 03-10-2019 18:37

[LEGEND]

I have to say, waking up on ordinary tuesday mornings have never been this exciting before. 😘 ManagerZone!I have to say, waking up on ordinary tuesday mornings have never been this exciting before. 😘 ManagerZone!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By ghazbaran - 04-10-2019 00:46

[BotP]

Haha' Interesting.

panboy wrote:

I have to say, waking up on ordinary tuesday mornings have never been this exciting before. 😘 ManagerZone!

Haha' Interesting.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By happy-guy - 04-10-2019 02:05

[PSCF]

whats youth training speed mean?whats youth training speed mean?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By xxlnomadlxx - 04-10-2019 02:06

[MZ]

The proper question is "How much does each * of Training Speed affect actual training speed?The proper question is "How much does each * of Training Speed affect actual training speed?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By ghazbaran - 05-10-2019 04:00

[BotP]

I also want to know

xxlnomadlxx wrote:

The proper question is "How much does each * of Training Speed affect actual training speed?

I also want to know

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By albertusfc - 12-10-2019 10:30

[BNL]

I have one very special huge talent. A pitty is his training speed. But a HP* of minimum 32/33 balls. [fpl=209083573] hp: tc/sp 4 lp: spl/st 2 ts: 1 He is currently training to his 8th ball of stamina. If he reaches 9 balls stamina. It would imply that set plays will have a minimum of 6 balls. and the rest of the skills a minimum of 9 balls.I have one very special huge talent. A pitty is his training speed. But a HP* of minimum 32/33 balls.

Bud Plugge

Age: 37 (Retired)

SpeedSp					(8)
StaminaSt					(6)
Play IntelligencePI					(9)
PassingPa					(9)
ShootingSh					(3)
HeadingHe					(2)
KeepingKe					(1)
Ball ControlBC					(8)
TacklingTa					(9)
Aerial PassingAP					(8)
Set PlaysSP					(2)
ExperienceEx					(10)
FormFo					(9)
Total Skill Balls					65

hp: tc/sp 4
lp: spl/st 2
ts: 1

He is currently training to his 8th ball of stamina. If he reaches 9 balls stamina. It would imply that set plays will have a minimum of 6 balls. and the rest of the skills a minimum of 9 balls.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 24-10-2019 14:11

[-FO-]

Hello. I have a question. We already saw that LP 5 6 6 7 could be 1LP or 2LP. So what happens if the youth's LPs are 5 5 8 8? Is it 1LP or 2LP? Both situations are weird. If it's 1LP it means that this is a case where 1LP could be better than the worst 2LP. If it's 2LP it means that 2LP could go below 6 5. Thank you.Hello.
I have a question.
We already saw that LP 5 6 6 7 could be 1LP or 2LP.
So what happens if the youth's LPs are 5 5 8 8?
Is it 1LP or 2LP?
Both situations are weird.
If it's 1LP it means that this is a case where 1LP could be better than the worst 2LP.
If it's 2LP it means that 2LP could go below 6 5.
Thank you.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 24-10-2019 14:24

[-FO-]

And to further explain... If we take 5 LPs and compare them 2LP 5 6 6 7 8 or even 5 6 6 7 9 is still worse than 5 5 8 8 8.And to further explain...
If we take 5 LPs and compare them
2LP 5 6 6 7 8 or even 5 6 6 7 9 is still worse than 5 5 8 8 8.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mayunga - 24-10-2019 15:55

[World]

If a player has a HP in Speed and Keeping and Speed has hit 9 balls (unmaxed) What's the highest it can hit in Keeping?If a player has a HP in Speed and Keeping and Speed has hit 9 balls (unmaxed)

What's the highest it can hit in Keeping?

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mayunga - 24-10-2019 15:56

[World]

the Hp is 3*

mayunga wrote:

If a player has a HP in Speed and Keeping and Speed has hit 9 balls (unmaxed)

What's the highest it can hit in Keeping?

the Hp is 3*

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By speedylfc - 24-10-2019 17:19

[UPSG]

I think he can reach 10 and not less than 9, but I'm not sure.I think he can reach 10 and not less than 9, but I'm not sure.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 24-10-2019 17:33

[MZ-TR]

Lowes 5-6-6-7 is 2 Stars. Where have you seen it as 1 Star? 5-5-8-8 should also be 2 Stars. Keeping can be either 8 (around 8%chance), 9 (around 40% chance) or 10 (around 54 % chance). I know total is 102% but there were some rounds up at the calculation :)

mihairo wrote:

Hello.
I have a question.
We already saw that LP 5 6 6 7 could be 1LP or 2LP.
So what happens if the youth's LPs are 5 5 8 8?
Is it 1LP or 2LP?
Both situations are weird.
If it's 1LP it means that this is a case where 1LP could be better than the worst 2LP.
If it's 2LP it means that 2LP could go below 6 5.
Thank you.

Lowes 5-6-6-7 is 2 Stars. Where have you seen it as 1 Star?

5-5-8-8 should also be 2 Stars.

mayunga wrote:

If a player has a 3HP in Speed and Keeping and Speed has hit 9 balls (unmaxed)

What's the highest it can hit in Keeping?

Keeping can be either 8 (around 8%chance), 9 (around 40% chance) or 10 (around 54 % chance). I know total is 102% but there were some rounds up at the calculation :)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 25-10-2019 02:39

[-FO-]

I saw it. I also saw 4 7 as 1LP. This is why I ask if there is anyone with a 5 5 2LP. If there is a case of 5 5 2LP - then the star system should reviewed. We already saw that 2LP can reach 8 skill. So comparing a 5 5 2LP with a 4 8 or 5 8 2LP it's useless. You can't expect me to understand that 5 5 8 8 is equal to 5 8 8 8.

engerek01 wrote:

Lowes 5-6-6-7 is 2 Stars. Where have you seen it as 1 Star?

5-5-8-8 should also be 2 Stars.

I saw it. I also saw 4 7 as 1LP.
This is why I ask if there is anyone with a 5 5 2LP.
If there is a case of 5 5 2LP - then the star system should reviewed.
We already saw that 2LP can reach 8 skill.
So comparing a 5 5 2LP with a 4 8 or 5 8 2LP it's useless.
You can't expect me to understand that 5 5 8 8 is equal to 5 8 8 8.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mayunga - 25-10-2019 11:09

[World]

Has anyone managed to get a youth player with 3 HP and 3 LP or... 4 HP and 3 LP? I would love to know. The closest I've got is 4 HP and 2 LPHas anyone managed to get a youth player with 3 HP and 3 LP or...

4 HP and 3 LP?

I would love to know.

The closest I've got is 4 HP and 2 LP

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By moroh2o (LA) - 25-10-2019 13:42

[MZ]

No and I think is not possible to be honest.

mayunga wrote:

Has anyone managed to get a youth player with 3 HP and 3 LP or...

4 HP and 3 LP?

I would love to know.

The closest I've got is 4 HP and 2 LP

No and I think is not possible to be honest.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 25-10-2019 15:12

[MZ-TR]

Can I also see them? Because according to my own algorithm, those are not possible. If you can provide me with a solid proof of that, it would be very valuable for my research.

mihairo wrote:

I saw it. I also saw 4 7 as 1LP.
This is why I ask if there is anyone with a 5 5 2LP.
If there is a case of 5 5 2LP - then the star system should reviewed.
We already saw that 2LP can reach 8 skill.
So comparing a 5 5 2LP with a 4 8 or 5 8 2LP it's useless.
You can't expect me to understand that 5 5 8 8 is equal to 5 8 8 8.

Can I also see them? Because according to my own algorithm, those are not possible. If you can provide me with a solid proof of that, it would be very valuable for my research.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 26-10-2019 12:40

[-FO-]

See Powdersnow's Youth Analysis threads. The owners posted the players there. I also saw 2LP speed 8 in football and I already have a 2LP power 8 in hockey. [hpl=30169702] So if there is someone who can show me a 5 5 2LP player. Because that would be crazy... Thank you.

engerek01 wrote:

Can I also see them? Because according to my own algorithm, those are not possible. If you can provide me with a solid proof of that, it would be very valuable for my research.

See Powdersnow's Youth Analysis threads. The owners posted the players there.
I also saw 2LP speed 8 in football and I already have a 2LP power 8 in hockey.

Nicu Lăzăroiu

Age: 37 (Retired)

So if there is someone who can show me a 5 5 2LP player.
Because that would be crazy...
Thank you.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 26-10-2019 15:10

[MZ-TR]

I know those topics thoroughly. While there were claims of such cases, they either couldn't prove them or it turned out they saw them wrong.[color=red][b] So there are still no solid proofs of these 2 cases:[/b][/color] [b]LP 1 Star being 4 and 7. Lowest 5-6-6-7 as 1 Star.[/b] We already knew that LP 2 Star could reach 8. It is written in my guide. LP 2 Star can even be 4-4 [color=blue][b]I'll be waiting for you to show a valid proof of your 2 claims I stated in bold.[/b][/color]

mihairo wrote:

See Powdersnow's Youth Analysis threads. The owners posted the players there.

I know those topics thoroughly. While there were claims of such cases, they either couldn't prove them or it turned out they saw them wrong. So there are still no solid proofs of these 2 cases:

LP 1 Star being 4 and 7.
Lowest 5-6-6-7 as 1 Star.

mihairo wrote:

I also saw 2LP speed 8 in football and I already have a 2LP power 8 in hockey.

Nicu Lăzăroiu

Age: 37 (Retired)

We already knew that LP 2 Star could reach 8. It is written in my guide.

mihairo wrote:

So if there is someone who can show me a 5 5 2LP player.
Because that would be crazy...
Thank you.

LP 2 Star can even be 4-4

I'll be waiting for you to show a valid proof of your 2 claims I stated in bold.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 26-10-2019 17:58

[-FO-]

There are 8 pages of posts om this thread as well. See the people's posts. I'm not claiming anything referring to your calculus. What I'm claiming is that we should have 3LP as well. My hockey player should be rated 3LP. Just a simple IMO. This way won't discard players with high LP. Having 1LP with 6 5 and 2LP with 6 5 doesn't really help anybody. Meanwhile we can have 3LP with 7 6 or 8 5 or who knows maybe 7 7 or 8 6. This way we can see the difference.There are 8 pages of posts om this thread as well.
See the people's posts.
I'm not claiming anything referring to your calculus.
What I'm claiming is that we should have 3LP as well.
My hockey player should be rated 3LP. Just a simple IMO.
This way won't discard players with high LP.
Having 1LP with 6 5 and 2LP with 6 5 doesn't really help anybody.
Meanwhile we can have 3LP with 7 6 or 8 5 or who knows maybe 7 7 or 8 6.
This way we can see the difference.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 26-10-2019 18:05

[-FO-]

PS Can somebody show us a 2LP with 4 4 or 4 5? It wouldn't make sense like that. Thank you.PS Can somebody show us a 2LP with 4 4 or 4 5?
It wouldn't make sense like that.
Thank you.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 26-10-2019 18:15

[FLUSA]
President

Not many managers try to max the low skills first and not many would keep a player maxed at 5 on a skill I guess.... so the chances to find such player now are limited, maybe in a few seasons when they grow up and start maxing out.

mihairo wrote:

PS Can somebody show us a 2LP with 4 4 or 4 5?
It wouldn't make sense like that.
Thank you.

Not many managers try to max the low skills first and not many would keep a player maxed at 5 on a skill I guess.... so the chances to find such player now are limited, maybe in a few seasons when they grow up and start maxing out.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 26-10-2019 18:36

[MZ-TR]

The probability of having a player with 3LP is roughly 0.0043% or 1/23000 according to my own calculations and assumptions in this system. And for your hockey player, I think you should stop confusing Low Potential [b]skills[/b] with Low Potential [b]Stars[/b]. They are 2 separate information. I was trying to show you that your perception of the concept was wrong earlier but I think you don't want to hear it from me. So I will discard myself from this conversation and won't try to help you more.

mihairo wrote:

...
What I'm claiming is that we should have 3LP as well.
My hockey player should be rated 3LP. Just a simple IMO.
...

The probability of having a player with 3LP is roughly 0.0043% or 1/23000 according to my own calculations and assumptions in this system.

And for your hockey player, I think you should stop confusing Low Potential skills with Low Potential Stars. They are 2 separate information. I was trying to show you that your perception of the concept was wrong earlier but I think you don't want to hear it from me. So I will discard myself from this conversation and won't try to help you more.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 27-10-2019 06:13

[-FO-]

Sorry, what? If your calculus shows that 2 stars LP can be 4 4 or 8 6, I really didn't ask for them. Thanks Adrian. The discussion started from the fact that 6 5 can be both 1LP and 2LP, which I'm OK with. I'm not saying reinvent the wheel here. Of course 5 4 can never be 2LP. That's why I asked about 5 5 8 8, which is a more than decent LP. IMO it should be 1LP, but it can also be 2LP. That's why I asked if there is anyone having a player with 2LP maxed 5 5.

engerek01 wrote:

The probability of having a player with 3LP is roughly 0.0043% or 1/23000 according to my own calculations and assumptions in this system.

And for your hockey player, I think you should stop confusing Low Potential skills with Low Potential Stars. They are 2 separate information. I was trying to show you that your perception of the concept was wrong earlier but I think you don't want to hear it from me. So I will discard myself from this conversation and won't try to help you more.

Sorry, what?
If your calculus shows that 2 stars LP can be 4 4 or 8 6, I really didn't ask for them.

darkline wrote:

Not many managers try to max the low skills first and not many would keep a player maxed at 5 on a skill I guess.... so the chances to find such player now are limited, maybe in a few seasons when they grow up and start maxing out.

Thanks Adrian.
The discussion started from the fact that 6 5 can be both 1LP and 2LP, which I'm OK with.
I'm not saying reinvent the wheel here. Of course 5 4 can never be 2LP. That's why I asked about 5 5 8 8, which is a more than decent LP.
IMO it should be 1LP, but it can also be 2LP.
That's why I asked if there is anyone having a player with 2LP maxed 5 5.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 27-10-2019 11:25

[FLUSA]
President

I really think the range for HP/LP should be handled different... right now and for practical purposes, the only options for LP are 1 or 2 stars, for HP is 2 to 4 It'll be a lot more intriguing and better if LP & HP where calculated different and we would get the whole one to four star range for both. For example, it would be a lot more intriguing if we could get a 2 HP & 4 LP player, that could be a guy that might not get very high on the HP skills but his 4 stars LP might mean that you might have an all around good player with no obvious weakness... but as it is, the system for youth potential is a bit boringI really think the range for HP/LP should be handled different... right now and for practical purposes, the only options for LP are 1 or 2 stars, for HP is 2 to 4

It'll be a lot more intriguing and better if LP & HP where calculated different and we would get the whole one to four star range for both.

For example, it would be a lot more intriguing if we could get a 2 HP & 4 LP player, that could be a guy that might not get very high on the HP skills but his 4 stars LP might mean that you might have an all around good player with no obvious weakness... but as it is, the system for youth potential is a bit boring

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 27-10-2019 12:37

[MZ-TR]

No. The system is perfect right now as it is and gives very valuable information for those who know how to read it. I can now determine the exact future of my players before they even reach age of 18. I wouldn't want that to change.

darkline wrote:

I really think the range for HP/LP should be handled different... right now and for practical purposes, the only options for LP are 1 or 2 stars, for HP is 2 to 4

It'll be a lot more intriguing and better if LP & HP where calculated different and we would get the whole one to four star range for both.

For example, it would be a lot more intriguing if we could get a 2 HP & 4 LP player, that could be a guy that might not get very high on the HP skills but his 4 stars LP might mean that you might have an all around good player with no obvious weakness... but as it is, the system for youth potential is a bit boring

No. The system is perfect right now as it is and gives very valuable information for those who know how to read it. I can now determine the exact future of my players before they even reach age of 18. I wouldn't want that to change.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 27-10-2019 13:28

[FLUSA]
President

It was harder to read but I got better info from the previous system to be quite honest, I guess this system is easier to read but gives less relevant information.

engerek01 wrote:

No. The system is perfect right now as it is and gives very valuable information for those who know how to read it. I can now determine the exact future of my players before they even reach age of 18. I wouldn't want that to change.

It was harder to read but I got better info from the previous system to be quite honest, I guess this system is easier to read but gives less relevant information.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 27-10-2019 16:01

[MZ-TR]

For me it is exactly the other way around. To me, previous system gave NOTHING. It was like rolling a dice. This system however is easy to understand but a lot harder to comprehend and interpret. That's why I wrote a guide explaining the new system in turkish forums. I tried to make sure that people understand LP Skills and LP Stars are 2 separate information. Once you realize that fact and learn how to combine the 2, the result is very powerful and tells you about EVERY SKILL for a player. Some are harder to read than others but the tips are there.

darkline wrote:

It was harder to read but I got better info from the previous system to be quite honest, I guess this system is easier to read but gives less relevant information.

For me it is exactly the other way around. To me, previous system gave NOTHING. It was like rolling a dice. This system however is easy to understand but a lot harder to comprehend and interpret. That's why I wrote a guide explaining the new system in turkish forums. I tried to make sure that people understand LP Skills and LP Stars are 2 separate information. Once you realize that fact and learn how to combine the 2, the result is very powerful and tells you about EVERY SKILL for a player. Some are harder to read than others but the tips are there.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 27-10-2019 16:19

[FLUSA]
President

For a lot of people it was like rolling the dice as the information wasn't clear, it was harder to interpret the data but I could gather information very early on the player's career and swap players that will most likely maxout on a critical skill without wasting time training, just to prove what I say right now I have 7 players product of my youth academy on the National Team and a few more should make it next season. I know how to read & interpret the info you get from this scout, it's fairly easy really, but to achieve the same results it takes me longer than before & I end up wasting more time, therefore investing more resources & producing less good players. Also, the way this tool works is not compatible with my way of training youths for U18 competitions. Anyway, the point is, why put up to 4 stars at LP if a player can only be 2 LP? Why put 1 star HP as an option if no 1 HP player exist? Is just pointless and I'd like players to show the full range of potential.

engerek01 wrote:

For me it is exactly the other way around. To me, previous system gave NOTHING. It was like rolling a dice.

For a lot of people it was like rolling the dice as the information wasn't clear, it was harder to interpret the data but I could gather information very early on the player's career and swap players that will most likely maxout on a critical skill without wasting time training, just to prove what I say right now I have 7 players product of my youth academy on the National Team and a few more should make it next season.

I know how to read & interpret the info you get from this scout, it's fairly easy really, but to achieve the same results it takes me longer than before & I end up wasting more time, therefore investing more resources & producing less good players. Also, the way this tool works is not compatible with my way of training youths for U18 competitions.

Anyway, the point is, why put up to 4 stars at LP if a player can only be 2 LP? Why put 1 star HP as an option if no 1 HP player exist? Is just pointless and I'd like players to show the full range of potential.

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 27-10-2019 16:25

[MZ-TR]

Think it like a classroom. What you are saying is like "Hey, why are the worst students with lowest marks can't get AA?" "Hey again, why the best students can't get DD?"

darkline wrote:

....
Anyway, the point is, why put up to 4 stars at LP if a player can only be 2 LP? Why put 1 star HP as an option if no 1 HP player exist? Is just pointless and I'd like players to show the full range of potential.

Think it like a classroom. What you are saying is like

"Hey, why are the worst students with lowest marks can't get AA?"
"Hey again, why the best students can't get DD?"

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 27-10-2019 16:28

[FLUSA]
President

I think a better example would be this scene from the movie "Spinal Tap" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW008FcKr3Q

engerek01 wrote:

Think it like a classroom. What you are saying is like

"Hey, why are the worst students with lowest marks can't get AA?"
"Hey again, why the best students can't get DD?"

I think a better example would be this scene from the movie "Spinal Tap"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW008FcKr3Q

Ce: Youth Potential Tool

By engerek01 - 27-10-2019 16:33

[MZ-TR]

EXACTLY!!.

darkline wrote:

I think a better example would be this scene from the movie "Spinal Tap"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW008FcKr3Q

EXACTLY!!.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 28-10-2019 14:16

[-FO-]

I totally agree.

darkline wrote:

I really think the range for HP/LP should be handled different... right now and for practical purposes, the only options for LP are 1 or 2 stars, for HP is 2 to 4

It'll be a lot more intriguing and better if LP & HP where calculated different and we would get the whole one to four star range for both.

For example, it would be a lot more intriguing if we could get a 2 HP & 4 LP player, that could be a guy that might not get very high on the HP skills but his 4 stars LP might mean that you might have an all around good player with no obvious weakness... but as it is, the system for youth potential is a bit boring

I totally agree.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 28-10-2019 14:19

[-FO-]

TA is much better than YTC, no doubt about it. But when there is a big chance that 1LP is similar to 2LP and there is no 3LP, the information becomes irrelevant.

darkline wrote:

It was harder to read but I got better info from the previous system to be quite honest, I guess this system is easier to read but gives less relevant information.

TA is much better than YTC, no doubt about it.
But when there is a big chance that 1LP is similar to 2LP and there is no 3LP, the information becomes irrelevant.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 28-10-2019 14:26

[-FO-]

:))))))) Basically it's the same thing with the MZ's 2LP. Generally it is a 6, but it can go upto 8. An 8 LP is not 2LP in my book. It should definitely be 3LP IMO.

darkline wrote:

I think a better example would be this scene from the movie "Spinal Tap"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW008FcKr3Q

:)))))))

Basically it's the same thing with the MZ's 2LP. Generally it is a 6, but it can go upto 8.
An 8 LP is not 2LP in my book. It should definitely be 3LP IMO.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 28-10-2019 20:34

[FLUSA]
President

That's the point, why show 3/4 LP status if a player that gets that won't ever exist? Better would be to make 1 "low" star a 1 star, 1 "high" star 2 stars, 2 "low" stars" 3 stars and 2 "high" stars a 4 stars..... do you get what I mean? Just give a more accurate prediction....

mihairo wrote:

:)))))))

Basically it's the same thing with the MZ's 2LP. Generally it is a 6, but it can go upto 8.
An 8 LP is not 2LP in my book. It should definitely be 3LP IMO.

That's the point, why show 3/4 LP status if a player that gets that won't ever exist? Better would be to make 1 "low" star a 1 star, 1 "high" star 2 stars, 2 "low" stars" 3 stars and 2 "high" stars a 4 stars..... do you get what I mean? Just give a more accurate prediction....

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 29-10-2019 06:51

[-FO-]

The Crew now has more than 1 million players as feedback considering both sports. So I'm sure they will do something about it. So far we know the official numbers: 1LP ~53% 2LP ~47% 3LP ~0% I wouldn't mind if we would have 1LP ~53% 2LP ~45% 3LP ~2% This could be done if we lower the expectations for 3LP to 8 6 or 8 5 and 7 7 or 7 6. The prediction would definitely be more accurate this way. Meanwhile I have no problem with the current HP. It's perfect as it is.The Crew now has more than 1 million players as feedback considering both sports.
So I'm sure they will do something about it.
So far we know the official numbers:
1LP ~53%
2LP ~47%
3LP ~0%
I wouldn't mind if we would have
1LP ~53%
2LP ~45%
3LP ~2%
This could be done if we lower the expectations for 3LP to 8 6 or 8 5 and 7 7 or 7 6.
The prediction would definitely be more accurate this way.

Meanwhile I have no problem with the current HP. It's perfect as it is.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By frankiejhoffa - 29-10-2019 22:46

[AUSNZ]

I have a 2 star player max on 9I have a 2 star player max on 9

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By powdersnow (Crew) - 30-10-2019 09:19

[BFTF]

I see what you are saying and I liked that Spinal Tap reference. But in MZ there is no Max cap on a player's abilities, which means it is still mathematically possible to get to 4 stars on WP. Regarding the full potential, we chose to show it this way because WP should never be higher than HP. Problem with that setup for WP is that you'd now never get any 2 star HP. One solution would be to go to a 5-star scale but we did not want it to be that precise.

darkline wrote:

For a lot of people it was like rolling the dice as the information wasn't clear, it was harder to interpret the data but I could gather information very early on the player's career and swap players that will most likely maxout on a critical skill without wasting time training, just to prove what I say right now I have 7 players product of my youth academy on the National Team and a few more should make it next season.

I know how to read & interpret the info you get from this scout, it's fairly easy really, but to achieve the same results it takes me longer than before & I end up wasting more time, therefore investing more resources & producing less good players. Also, the way this tool works is not compatible with my way of training youths for U18 competitions.

Anyway, the point is, why put up to 4 stars at LP if a player can only be 2 LP? Why put 1 star HP as an option if no 1 HP player exist? Is just pointless and I'd like players to show the full range of potential.

I see what you are saying and I liked that Spinal Tap reference. But in MZ there is no Max cap on a player's abilities, which means it is still mathematically possible to get to 4 stars on WP.

Regarding the full potential, we chose to show it this way because WP should never be higher than HP.

mihairo wrote:

I wouldn't mind if we would have
1LP ~53%
2LP ~45%
3LP ~2%

Problem with that setup for WP is that you'd now never get any 2 star HP. One solution would be to go to a 5-star scale but we did not want it to be that precise.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 30-10-2019 10:29

[FLUSA]
President

But we're not even talking 4 stars, there is no single player with 3 stars on LP known to exist, mathematically it might be possible, as possible as winning the Euromillions I guess, but the options should be realistic and realistically achieving 3 stars is so difficult that after months of this system no player with 3 LP is known to exist and I doubt we'll ever see on for the years to come, so the LP options become binary, yes/no, 0/1, bad/good, discard/retain The problem with binary options is that they're rather limited and is not as fun as having a full spectrum of choices with more decisions to make.

powdersnow wrote:

I see what you are saying and I liked that Spinal Tap reference. But in MZ there is no Max cap on a player's abilities, which means it is still mathematically possible to get to 4 stars on WP.

But we're not even talking 4 stars, there is no single player with 3 stars on LP known to exist, mathematically it might be possible, as possible as winning the Euromillions I guess, but the options should be realistic and realistically achieving 3 stars is so difficult that after months of this system no player with 3 LP is known to exist and I doubt we'll ever see on for the years to come, so the LP options become binary, yes/no, 0/1, bad/good, discard/retain

The problem with binary options is that they're rather limited and is not as fun as having a full spectrum of choices with more decisions to make.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 30-10-2019 12:30

[-FO-]

Thank you Thorbjörn. Considering that HP is perfect as it is... Would it harm anyone to see players with for e.g. 2HP 3LP? Most of the 2HP players are now discarded because of having 3HP and 4HP choices. Wouldn't this option make them much more attractive? Let's take this example. We are talking about a player with all 8 skills. HP 8 8 and LP 8 8. This player is now rated as 2HP 2LP. Last time we took this example we all agreed it's a 3 star player. With the current star ratings it's too weak for 3HP and too strong for 2LP. We can't make him a 3HP 3LP player because it's not. And I think we can agree that he's not a 2HP 2LP player. Wouldn't 2HP 3LP be a solution? Also we would open a huge window for other players with strong LPs like 8 5 or 7 6. Meanwhile a lot of users are frustrated when discovering their 4HP 1LP players turn out to be weak. Only his way - introducing 3LP as a viable input - would make them understand that their 4HP 1LP or 4HP 2LP are not as strong as they think. Knowing that 3LP exists would make them really realise how a strong player looks like.Thank you Thorbjörn.
Considering that HP is perfect as it is...
Would it harm anyone to see players with for e.g. 2HP 3LP?
Most of the 2HP players are now discarded because of having 3HP and 4HP choices.
Wouldn't this option make them much more attractive?
Let's take this example.
We are talking about a player with all 8 skills.
HP 8 8 and LP 8 8.
This player is now rated as 2HP 2LP. Last time we took this example we all agreed it's a 3 star player. With the current star ratings it's too weak for 3HP and too strong for 2LP.
We can't make him a 3HP 3LP player because it's not.
And I think we can agree that he's not a 2HP 2LP player.
Wouldn't 2HP 3LP be a solution?
Also we would open a huge window for other players with strong LPs like 8 5 or 7 6.
Meanwhile a lot of users are frustrated when discovering their 4HP 1LP players turn out to be weak. Only his way - introducing 3LP as a viable input - would make them understand that their 4HP 1LP or 4HP 2LP are not as strong as they think.
Knowing that 3LP exists would make them really realise how a strong player looks like.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By ghazbaran - 30-10-2019 13:23

[BotP]

I liked what was said, it's possible, something to think about [image url=http://i.imgur.com/Q3B4Dqz.gif]

mihairo wrote:

Thank you Thorbjörn.
Considering that HP is perfect as it is...
Would it harm anyone to see players with for e.g. 2HP 3LP?
Most of the 2HP players are now discarded because of having 3HP and 4HP choices.
Wouldn't this option make them much more attractive?
Let's take this example.
We are talking about a player with all 8 skills.
HP 8 8 and LP 8 8.
This player is now rated as 2HP 2LP. Last time we took this example we all agreed it's a 3 star player. With the current star ratings it's too weak for 3HP and too strong for 2LP.
We can't make him a 3HP 3LP player because it's not.
And I think we can agree that he's not a 2HP 2LP player.
Wouldn't 2HP 3LP be a solution?
Also we would open a huge window for other players with strong LPs like 8 5 or 7 6.
Meanwhile a lot of users are frustrated when discovering their 4HP 1LP players turn out to be weak. Only his way - introducing 3LP as a viable input - would make them understand that their 4HP 1LP or 4HP 2LP are not as strong as they think.
Knowing that 3LP exists would make them really realise how a strong player looks like.

I liked what was said, it's possible, something to think about

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By joseluiz_go - 31-10-2019 18:09

[FAM 21]

Where is your "guide", mate? I'm very curious, seems like you have a very good database to support that. Thank you!

engerek01 wrote:

I know those topics thoroughly. While there were claims of such cases, they either couldn't prove them or it turned out they saw them wrong. So there are still no solid proofs of these 2 cases:

LP 1 Star being 4 and 7.
Lowest 5-6-6-7 as 1 Star.



We already knew that LP 2 Star could reach 8. It is written in my guide.


LP 2 Star can even be 4-4

I'll be waiting for you to show a valid proof of your 2 claims I stated in bold.

Where is your "guide", mate? I'm very curious, seems like you have a very good database to support that. Thank you!

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 31-10-2019 19:45

[-FO-]

This is what I wrote 4 months ago. If the assumptions about the TA were correct, I go even further. Let's take a 2HP 9 8 and 2LP 8 8 player. This player can become a star for an U21 National Team, but there are very high chances he will be discarded by the owner. I find this a problem.

mihairo wrote:

And to fully understand how the system works, I give you an example.

Let's take an all 8 skill player.

8 8 HP is definitely 2*HP.
8 8 LP is definitely 3*LP.

So you would have a 2*HP with 3*LP player, which is impossible, and against any logic.
This means the player could be either 3* or 2* on both.

From this, we can assume that 2*LP could go upto 8 8 or 3*HP could go down to 8 8, which is not right.
So, it's a 2*HP with 2*LP.

If,by any chance, you have two 9s, the player becomes
9 9 HP is 3*HP
8 8 LP is 2*HP or even 3*HP

This is what I wrote 4 months ago.
If the assumptions about the TA were correct, I go even further.

Let's take a 2HP 9 8 and 2LP 8 8 player.
This player can become a star for an U21 National Team, but there are very high chances he will be discarded by the owner.
I find this a problem.

Odp: Youth Potential Tool

By kostrzak16 - 01-11-2019 00:05

[U18-FS]

Yeah but don't you think something like 3 LP would be too much information ? Now when you have a player 4 HP shot+bc but 2 LP in stamina you can take a risk and hope for that (1-2% ?) chance that he will have at least 7 there. Players with 3 LP (minimum 7 in one of 2 skills) would be insta pick 90% of time. At least I would keep such players even with 2 HP.Yeah but don't you think something like 3 LP would be too much information ? Now when you have a player 4 HP shot+bc but 2 LP in stamina you can take a risk and hope for that (1-2% ?) chance that he will have at least 7 there. Players with 3 LP (minimum 7 in one of 2 skills) would be insta pick 90% of time. At least I would keep such players even with 2 HP.

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By mihairo - 01-11-2019 07:38

[-FO-]

I'm not talking about risks or taking chances. I'm talking about not losing this kind of players. Let me tell you a little story. The original TA had a 3 star system. And all the issue started from all 8 skill players. They were 3HP 3LP in that system. So the TA information became very vague. If I had a maximum HP with a maximum LP and the skills turned out to be 8 - I would have been tricked. So we all agreed that the 4th star is needed to separate 9-10 skillers from 8 skillers. I don't know what happened on the way because 9-10 skillers became 4 stars and 3 stars - meanwhile the all 8 skillers who should have been 3 stars skillers became 2 stars. And to understand my point of view - we all have or had players rated 4HP 2LP and even more players 4HP 1LP who turned out to be weaker than 2HP 8 skillers. That's what I'm actually talking about. So what's the problem if an all 8 skiller is rated 3HP 3LP?I'm not talking about risks or taking chances.
I'm talking about not losing this kind of players.
Let me tell you a little story.
The original TA had a 3 star system.
And all the issue started from all 8 skill players.
They were 3HP 3LP in that system.
So the TA information became very vague. If I had a maximum HP with a maximum LP and the skills turned out to be 8 - I would have been tricked.
So we all agreed that the 4th star is needed to separate 9-10 skillers from 8 skillers.
I don't know what happened on the way because 9-10 skillers became 4 stars and 3 stars - meanwhile the all 8 skillers who should have been 3 stars skillers became 2 stars.

And to understand my point of view - we all have or had players rated 4HP 2LP and even more players 4HP 1LP who turned out to be weaker than 2HP 8 skillers.
That's what I'm actually talking about.
So what's the problem if an all 8 skiller is rated 3HP 3LP?

Ri: Youth Potential Tool

By yokupoku (RA) - 01-11-2019 23:00

[FALCO]
President

LP⭐⭐ can be 4 [fpl=210481477] HP⭐⭐⭐ (green flag) LP⭐⭐ (yellow flag)LP⭐⭐ can be 4

Augusto De Carolis

Age: 35

HP⭐⭐⭐ (green flag)
LP⭐⭐ (yellow flag)

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By darkline - 02-11-2019 00:37

[FLUSA]
President

It's at the turkish forums, here's a "google translate" link which is pretty much readable, btw engerek01 got translated into viper01 😁 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.managerzone.com%2F%3Fp%3Dforum%26sub%3Dtopic%26topic_id%3D12503234%26forum_id%3D90%26sport%3Dsoccer

joseluiz_go wrote:

Where is your "guide", mate? I'm very curious, seems like you have a very good database to support that. Thank you!

It's at the turkish forums, here's a "google translate" link which is pretty much readable, btw engerek01 got translated into viper01 😁

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.managerzone.com%2F%3Fp%3Dforum%26sub%3Dtopic%26topic_id%3D12503234%26forum_id%3D90%26sport%3Dsoccer

Re: Youth Potential Tool

By joseluiz_go - 02-11-2019 01:32

[FAM 21]

Great stuff. Thanks

darkline wrote:

It's at the turkish forums, here's a "google translate" link which is pretty much readable, btw engerek01 got translated into viper01 😁

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.managerzone.com%2F%3Fp%3Dforum%26sub%3Dtopic%26topic_id%3D12503234%26forum_id%3D90%26sport%3Dsoccer

Great stuff. Thanks

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