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28-03-2024 12:12
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Season 89 · Week 13 · Day 87
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The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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The inconsistency of this game has brought me to the conclusion, this next season will probably be my last one. I recently won a friendly league, with only 1 lost game against top league teams from France, Spain, Poland and Romania. My team scored 123 times, and let in 22 goals in 30 matches. And then what happens next you might ask? Well... I lost against division 5 Argentina in Headquarters Cup (last 64). My player values are way waaaay higher than the opponents team, and we play identical tactics. Of course, games where you lose against weaker team should occur but the way it's been going on the last 2-3 seasons, I think it's about time to call it quits. I probably lost to worse teams in 90% of all the official cups last season. I would like to point out: Managerzone the last 10 years has been the only game worth playing for me, as I am not a big gamer at all. Producing my own youth, and making up tactics, should be enough for you guys to keep supporting this wonderful online game. For me though, I've come to the end of the line, and it's with sadness I am about to leave. I will probably play some games into the new season, since we're already about to start. But as mentioned: I have no more patience. I know there has been other threads pointing out the same issues, and hopefully crew will take them under consideration. Player skills and time spent making logical tweaks to your tactics should be awarded in a much more prevalent way than now. Another example of how time spent tweaking a tactic is not rewarded: Opponent plays short passing through the middle, you play a thight 3-3 in the back... you have a better team, still not awarded. Relegated to division 3 (WL).
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Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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[WCE]
President
Gorg:

I agree 100% with your second paragraph, and 0% with your first paragraph ;)

It would have been risky for him to try to take out my spear attack, because I had a strong threat of using wings. You can't have both. He got it dead wrong. Actually, he didn't even try anything, and just played his standard variant. This time he was receiving a handout from Sweden, which is the core of the problem. Crew are obsessed with "evening out the playing field". Points, trophies and achievements for everybody.

Hence why no teams were capable of breaking into the QF of int. cups more than 4 out of 14 times in S67/68 (not counting me, which managed 5). There was a staggering diversity of teams breaking into the very latter stages.. Is MZ a game, or some kind of social program. I am not sure.

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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[WCE]
President
2 key matches at 17:00. Knocked out of the QF of Keepers Cup. Draw in the WL.



Ang: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1062045548&tid=542740

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1062045542

How likely is this to happen? It is not very nice to see results vary like that ...

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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Very interesting topic i have to say.

Talking about tactics, I play this game since 2009, and I can say that sim changed a lot. Remember few years ago if you played "short" defence against a team that played "wings" then you were usually hammered by that team, maybe once per 10 games you wouldn't lose as the keeper had a superb day.

Now it all came to randomness. Many times, even though i play short in defence and my oponnent play wings i can still win even if we have similar teams or his is better.
This thing is making this game to easy, because we don't have to pay much attention to tactics, whoever just stick with one lets say short tactic can still beat wings in 50/50 cases.
Years ago if I didn't change my tactic for a particular match let's say i didn't make an "anti-wing" tactic when I knew my rival will play wings i would be destroyed and that would be my fault and that's right, if your lazy or forgot to get ready for the game you deserve to lose, but now it's all random and with short tactic your f** defenders are getting super power and can run like mad and still catch the winger haha, even though they are not set right on the pitch against the wing.

I will say more, noticed that many times, of course not all the times, but sometimes when i got ready and made good "anti wing" it worked worse then leaving them in default short tactic.

Talking about simmed games, it happens a lot, and it's so annoying but what can we do, i would understand the game like 20-10 shots and the score 1-2, but if it's 28-5, 30-5 and you still lose then this is too much. If you outsmarted your rival, made better tactic for the game you deserve to win. If the tactics are the same let's say piramid short vs short and you get simmed game I would accept it (sometimes), but if all is perfect, your team is better in every aspect in tackling, passing and creating chances (because of better tactic in this game) you should not lose, I know it happense in real life but it's a game.

One more thing about your match, one word about the game you showed, it's not a big surprise, the opponent had a very wide defence which simply worked.

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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gorglbnlgnag wrote:
@aemi:

The explanation is easy: In Norway we have awful food! Have you ever heard of this dish called "rakfisk"? It's basically fish that has been salted and fermented for up to a year, and then it's eaten without being cooked. Now, why do you think Norwegians like to complain?


You are my Norv personal hero. You may now ignore all the random things I might say in this thread or in my life lol. You have earned this right.

The kaster guy, dont fell down, you are still my hero, but I realized you are not really Norv, cause you also speak Swedish. Unless it's the same language? You are basically a spy. Probably working for Trump.

Too bored to google. I am opening Excel and making another spreadsheet. I am ranking my forums jokes. Norw jokes seem to be at the top lately.

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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@hanz:

Credit to the manager of CAMP for at least trying to read your tactic. In circumstances like these, I can actually accept losing. When the opponent clearly has made an effort to play a counter-tactic, and the skill level is also there. The game against Bulldog, the tactics are 50/50, maybe a slight advantage for you (taking out left and right back). With the amount of created chances, it should have resulted in a win for you non the less. Again: this is a very skilled opponent, and losses like these, we just have to accept them sometimes. What we can't accept is: when they start happening 5,6 and 7 times out of 10. Seems like you've had a fair share of bad luck lately. The game against the team from China, now that should never, ever happen.

@gorgio

Those 2 games are absolutely the prime essence of this thread. Day 1: tight defense against attackers in the middle, you win 3-0 (as expected). And then what happens next? You still play a tight defense, and opponent plays attackers in the middle. Will we get another 3-0? Maybe 2-0? Nah... SIM decided 1-6!

I mean...

WTF?

THIS crew ... this need to be fixed.

@lukasz

Exactly, you are spot on. Wing-play against 3 central defenders should be a big advantage for wing-team. Same goes for attackers through the middle against a wide and/or flat defense.
This is where ManagerZone is failing right now. Take a look at gorgio's matches, that's just a bad joke. Same goes for hanzinho's game against china-team (you can find a screenshot of it further up the thread). Big SOT advantages that does not result in a win... also a big problem. We are talking 30 against 5 shots.

Made edits. Post is again in original shape. // raamatupood
Edited: 17-01-2019 07:47
Total edits: 3

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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Attack crew? By saying: "you need to fix this"

I think you read something wrong, good sir ;)

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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I meant with that.. criticism is fine, but don't put all blame on crew. All solutions I see here is some managers want to make game more complicated.. the more complicated game goes, the less players will find it entertaining (we want to grow community or to shrink it?).
Better have game, which needs 5-15 minutes from day rather than hour +.
Nowadays so many advanced/addictive games available, it is not year 2004 anymore.

I haven't had any problems with SIM. I am fine with results. Maybe something is surrealistic, but in other hand - it is more exciting, more drama when people follow games directly. In old days we had only text and that was fine.

Somebody has to lose, somebody has to win. If only "more expensive" or "100% win tactics" teams must win games, then whats the point for game? - I ask again.

I am sure crew is familiar with issue and they are working out solutions.. so THIS crew cares about game same much as THAT crew.

If we have here so many professionals -- maybe experts can point out the errors where SIM does mistakes -- technically, speak in math, please.
We, assistants, copy the errors and offer them to crew to think over about.
Edited: 17-01-2019 07:48
Total edits: 1

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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I saw one good technical suggestion in forums somewhere and I will copy that to crew.

* Mirroring tactics *

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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@raamatupood

isn't MZ already simple enough?

depending on my daily schedule i rarely spent more than 10 minutes actively checking my team. the rest is spend either checking the forum to see if aimi made a new post or browsing the transfer market even if I don't want to buy any players.

the rest is mostly idle time either by looking at match stats or my players' profiles (I even managed to cure my insomnia with that...)

MZ could use a better mobile friendly GUI and less loading times
Also with a decent tutorial (pictures/videos...nobody wants to read nowadays(unfortunately)) and some "tutors" hanging around (perhaps a new xA position for CREW to consider?) the new player can learn almost all the basics of the game in no time (the rest he will have to find them out for himself, cause that's half the fun in every game)

I think new players mostly leave the game because of all the hassle and time needed to properly setup a competitive team and because it's boring to play against bots and not against human opponents

I would rather have a new team start with a full competitive starting eleven of decent strength (perhaps decent loyal 29/30 yo players) and half full built stadium, than have it "struggle" for 3+ seasons with just a youth academy setup , in order to just build up their economy

as always, that's just my point of view...

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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I am loading myself up to start thinking more about the game - it needs time to put myself on action, I have so much to do in "real life" - raamatupood (book store) is heavy business. To analyze all and put all together, it takes half (whole) day, at least.

I feel SIM and tactics are second level problem for newbies.

I am thinking more about markets/money.
Manager needs to feel he buys players and actually can sell them with profits .
Maybe for 28 days -- no salaries for bought players? After that salaries kick in and can sell player with 50% taxes.. and after 70 days with 15% taxes.
--- that would make managers to buy those badly trained players more, just to keep training them -- a little gamble with luck + so that coaches have more players to train. More good/bad news from training reports -- this is what is addictive in this game, what makes people to log in every day - to see are/how players developing.


Everybody who join games, they have 2 goals: Win the game or make money.
When player joins inactive league -- win is boring.. so he should have chance to make money somehow.

When no profits (nobody buys players), managers don't have time/will to learn game properly and wait youth to be trained up for a good money -- it takes many seasons. They just understand - ah, game is inactive, no fun from wins nor from money, bye.

I say yes to that markets should be open for newbies, from start, right away.
Maybe teams should start as 100% *temporary* players -- those will leave team in 3 weeks - lets say so. So .. newbies have time for 3 weeks to buy new players from market?


Cheaters? I believe some assistants can check IP-s, are kids cheating with teams? .. and so on.. older people know anyways other tricks and will not get caught... and .. someday markets will be open for newbies anyways (cheaters just wait that time) .. so the "protection to not make mistakes" is only reason to hold markets closed for starters... I find it is doing more harm than good. Most important feature is closed for newbies.



When I sell players.. I don't know, who likes my players? Who did see them? What would be best price for them and so on.

We can, actually, check, who joined MZ.
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=worldmap
-- who cares about his/her region/country, should contact newcomers with message, to offer assistance/help and leave tips.

I agree, that tutorials should be updated and be simple to follow . I can build one in English, can build second in Estonian.. but other languages?

Why to tell in tutorial : "fire most of year team, they are rubbish".
Better would be: "You have 3 weeks to buy new players to your team, else those temporary players will vanish, you need players for tactics".


......

.......

it needs whole day to analyze all + another day to make simple new tutorial.
Edited: 17-01-2019 23:24
Total edits: 4

Re: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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Observing

Ant: The inconsistency of this great manager game.

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gorgio wrote:


Did you take a closer look at these games?
In your 1-6 defeat, the opponent makes a weird series of substitutions.
He even changes tactics to a wing formation, and starts to creating chances using his winger.

In your 3-0 win, the opponent doesn't make these substitutions. However, he changes tactics to the same wing formation. My guess is that he uses a different style of play here. Maybe he forgot to change from short pass to wing-play? In my opinion, his players behave differently, and do not pass the ball to the winger very often.

This might explain a lot.
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