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28-01-2021 03:23
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Season 77 · Week 4 · Day 24
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Football

Football » English » Suggestions/Improvements

Draft - New Youth system

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Hi,

I would like to propose an idea for a new Youth system, based on a draft (like in NBA).
The post is long and has many examples, so please read until the end before you take sides.

I am not very satisfied with the current system, especially the Youth exchange.
Towards the end of the season, youth players that are offered in exchange are not getting better skills / more balls at the start. There is little point to get a 16 years old youth with 12-13 balls (in football), if within a few days he will be 17 years old. The youth conditioning camp does not provide sufficient boost to catch up almost a full season of training (plus a 5 weeks TC).

Plus the scouting system doesn’t do much either. It shows 3 skills that...I’m not sure, but I assume they either show skills that will be trained fastest, or top 3 skills with highest potential? Wish someone would answer this, if anyone knows. Anyway, I dislike it. The skills that are shown in the scouting often max at 6/7 balls. A player with max on 6 speed or stamina will never become a superstar or bring lots of money from a transfer. Of course I realise that not all youths should become superstars, cause that would ruin the fun and balance, but I have a feeling that sometimes out of 20 youths that you get, literally none is good enough to pursue TCs and investing money into player’s development and faster training.

On the other hand, some managers are lucky to get 3-4 really good youths who later turn into solid or very good players. The luck element plays a major role.

So I want to discuss the idea of a draft system.
The whole idea is based on a few changes / additions to the game. Below I will try to explain each.

NOTE: At this point, I assume that once a player is generated in the game, his maxings are already know / marked in the database, to which no manager has access of course. In case that maxings are “drawn” once a new ball is gained (let’s say the player gets his 6th ball in Speed and at this very moment the game draws if the player is maxxed on 6 balls in speed or not), my whole idea kinda falls apart, or at least requires a re-thinking.

First thing is to get rid of the current youth system (new youths arriving on the beginning and in the middle of the seasons; and removing the youth exchange tool) because it would collide with the draft system.


PLAYER RATINGS - SCOUTING

For the purpose of this post I will only focus on football examples only, but for hockey the same rules will apply. It’s only the matter of the names of the skills that differ in hockey and football.
The skills presented with mzplayer tool show MAXINGS potential, not the actual skills of a 16 year old youth.

There are 11 skills in football - 2 physical (Speed & Stamina) and 9 non-physical (Play Intel, Passing, Shooting, Heading, Keeping, Ball Control, Tackling, Aerial Passing, Set Plays).

It’s important to distinguish the physical and non-physical types at this point.

So, the game creates the youth players ( I will later explain when and how it happens).
The first thing that happens is that the game checks which NON-physical skills have highest potential (highest maxings). In case there is a draw (like 3+ skills are tied as top maxings), there is a random draw of 2 skills. This is only for the Non-physical skills.

Let’s look at the first example “Joe One” - please note that the balls that are shown are actually representing the MAXINGS, not the balls that arrive when the player is drafted.

http://mzplayer.se/?id=0406120060

In this case, Joe One has highest potential is the following non-physical skills: Shooting, Heading, Tackling - all at 8 balls potential.
Let's say that the game randomly chose 2 skills: Shooting and Heading (alternatively it could be: Shooting + Tackling; or Tackling + Heading)

Now for each pair of skills from the non-physical skills, we would need to come up with a “description”. Something like in the TC packages, for example Striker Package #6 has Speed and Ball Control, but I don't want to use numbers, rather use all descriptive names.

In case of Draft descriptions, we can come up with something more creative. A player who has potential in Shooting and Heading, we could call this combination of skills something like “Header scoring striker” or “Air dominating striker”. It’s kinda of a bad example I guess. But if for example the highest potential is in Play Intel and Passing, it could be called “ Creative Midfielder” or just simply a “Playmaker”.

Other example: Tackling and Aerial Passing = Defensive Winger

If it’s Shooting and Ball Control = “Dribbling Striker”
Passing + Tackling = “Defensive Midfielder” or “Playmaking Defender”

The difficult task would be to come up with reasonably sounding names for each pair of skills. Keeping + Set Plays? Any ideas? :P

I think that such description is just more interesting than just plainly showing the two skills the player has highest potential in.

Ok, so moving on, every player, when created by the game, would receive the description of his potential, which would indicate the 2 highest potential skills.

This is the first part of the Player Rating Scouting.
The second part would show the level of “talent”.

Minimum amount of balls before a maxing can happen is 4. Maximum is of course 10 balls.
The second part of the scouting will combine those 2 highest non-physical skills from the first part and add the 2 physical skills (speed and stamina). We will have 4 skills taken into the count. The maximum number of balls a player can have among 4 skills is 40. The minimum is 16.

Going back to JOE ONE example, we have 9 speed, 9 stamina, 8 Heading, 8 Shooting.
9+9+8+8 = 34 points
This number will be hidden from the managers of course.
What managers will see, is a different value.
At first I was thinking about “classes”, just like in case of Coaches.
We could have 4 classes (A, B, C , D). Each class would be allocated to a range of the player rating points.
Class D: 16,17,18,19,20,21,22
Class C: 23,24,25,26,27,28
Class B: 29,30,31,32,33,34
Class A: 35,36,37,38,39,40

Each class would have range of 6 points.
NOTE: Instead of “classes” , I think we should go with more descriptive terms
Class A -> World Class
Class B -> Talented
Class C -> Solid
Class D -> Average

Now going back to JOE ONE example again. He scored 34 points, which puts him into Class B (or “Talented”) and his 2 highest non-physical skills are Shooting and Heading, which for now I described as "Air dominating striker". Combining all those elements, his final Player Rating would be something like “Talented air dominating Striker”. This description would be shown next to Joe One in the draft screen.

Now a small simulation, where Joe One’s twin brother, Joe Two, has almost exactly the same skills, but has 1 ball more in tackling potential, at the expense of 1 ball less in Shooting potential.

http://mzplayer.se/?id=0406123076


Let’s run the Player Rating scouting calculations for Joe Two.
9 Speed, 9 Stamina. 2 non-physical skills with highest potential are Tackling (9) and Heading (8). Tackling and Heading combination could be described, for now, as “Air dominating defender”.
9+9+8+9 = 35 -> class A (or “World Class”)

The final scout’s rating of Joe Two is World Class Air dominating Defender.

So what does those two descriptions actually mean for the managers? We have run the calculations and you can see the formulas and rules that were applied, but what do you ACTUALLY KNOW when you see the below description?

Decyphering the descriptions / Various simulations

Talented Air dominating Striker
You know that the player has highest potential in Shooting and Heading.
You know that he has between 29 to 34 balls in those 2 skills + physical skills.
Below is the original JOE ONE
http://mzplayer.se/?id=0406120060

Here is JOE THREE, who also would get the same descrption of Talented Air dominating Striker
http://mzplayer.se/?id=0406123562

Speed 10 + Stamina 5 + Shooting 8 + Heading 6 = 29
Note that Heading was tied as the second highest non-physical skill with passing, play intel and tackling, but we assume that heading was draw randomly out of those 4 skills and joined Shooting as the two top highest skills. So again we have the Air Dominating Striker description. The total amount of balls of the physical and top 2 non-physical skills is 29, which puts him in the “Talented” range, same as Joe One.

Just compare Joe One and Joe Three. They both fall into the same scouting category, but they are so very different in how their maxings are distributed and how they will look like in the future.

This contrast example was meant to show that this system can still leave a huge amount of uncertainty, of how the player will look when he is older and maxxed out.

I think that this system would work extremely well, because it gives the managers some sort of idea of which skills to develop and what can be expected, but there is still an area of uncertainty of how the distribution of skills (maxings) will look.

Looking at Joe Three, we can say that based on the draw of the second non-physical skill to be used in the description, we can have the following pairs:
a. shooting + heading = Talented air dominating striker
b. shooting + play intel = Talented Creative Striker
c. shooting + passing = Talented Assisting Striker (or Talented Goalscoring Midfielder)
d. shooting + tackling = defending striker (probably a terrible description, but I have no idea what else to call this combination). Actually, it could be a goalscoring defender as well. You might think that he would become a defender, when in fact he’s more of a striker, with some tackling abilities.


Now I want to show just a few more examples of different Joes and what possible skill development can look like.

Joe Four is a World Class dribbling striker (or a world class Goalscoring Keeper):

http://mzplayer.se/?id=0406125362

Yes, he has 8 keeping and 8 ball control. Depending on which second non-physical skill is chosen together with shooting, he can be either the Dribbling Striker, or Goalscoring Keeper.

Would you want to pick a Goalscoring Keeper during the draft? You know that shooting and keeping will be high. He’s a World Class after all, so if he has 10 Speed and 10 Stamina, you have at least 15 balls split among Shooting and Keeping. Still not bad for a striker if he gets 7 or 8 in shooting. If he has less in physical skills, then it means he will have more Shooting / Keeping, so still a decent chance to turn him into a great keeper or striker. Although for a great keeper you'd probably hope to get 10 balls in keeping.

If Joe Four is drawn to display as a World Class Dribbling Striker though, you already know that he will have lots of balls on the most important skills of a striker: speed, stamina, shooting, ball control. I am sure every manager would want him.


Joe Five is a Talented Dribbling Midfielder (Passing and Ball Control are highest potential skills), with total rating of 31 points
http://mzplayer.se/?id=0406131140

Joe Six is a twin brother of Joe Five and has the same rating of a Talented Dribbling Midfielder, but he has a bit more total rating point, 34, and better distribution of maxings on physical skills, but less potential on the non-physical skills
http://mzplayer.se/?id=0406130073

As you can see, both Joe Five and Joe Six have similar maxings in the rest of non-physical skills, the only difference is in the top 2 non-physicial skills and physical skills maxings distribution. I think all managers would agree that Joe Six would be a better team addition than Joe Five, mostly due to his physical skills potential.


I think that at this point it’s enough of examples. Following the rules I described above, any manager can play with some simulations and see how in some cases, the results will be exteemely different.

Maybe one last final example of a Solid Dribbling Striker, Joe Seven
http://mzplayer.se/?id=0406132880
Maxings at 4 speed and 4 stamina, his total rating is just 28 points, which puts him in the Solid category. All other skills are either 9 or 10. Apart from his physical skills, Joe Seven is a monster. At least when he enters the pitch in 80th minutes as a substitute :P
Just think though, you’re hoping that he would get some equal distribution of skills, maybe 7 speed, 7 stamina, 7 shooting, 7 ball control. Yet he maxes on speed at 4 and you just feel like discarding him right away, knowing he doesn’t have a future, but he can actually reach so much in other skills.






DRAFT SYSTEM

Every draft would be an intra-league event. Meaning, each divison would get it own, seperate draft.

The draft would take place from day 78, until day 89 of every season.
The drafted players will arrive at the beginning of a new season, of course, once older players graduate from the academy and make space.

Pre-conditions:
a. option to increase / decrease academy size would be limited to once per season and the effect would take place only at day 1 of a new season. This goes also for new teams joining the game
b. there is no Youth Exchange tool - you will be “stuck” with the drafted players as there is no way to discard them

How I imagine it working:
On day 78, the game will check the total amount of new available places in your youth academy (in case you ordered to increase the size, during the season) and number of youths graduating by the end of the season.

Let’s say I had academy of size of 20 players, and I ordered to increase it to 23. The increase will take place when new season starts. Let’s say that 13 of my current 20 youths will graduate, because they are 18 years old already. This means that I will have 7 / 23 youths only, so 16 free spots for new youths.

This calculation will be done for EVERY team in the league.

Let’s say that all 12 teams in my league , have a total of 75 places for new youths in the next season (season 66)

On day 78 of season 65, the game will generate 75 youth players for the draft in my league. I will receive 16 draft choices to fill out the 16 vacant spots in my academy.

It might be that some teams will have 0 draft choices, in case they have a full academy and no graduates when the new season starts. Those teams will just skip the draft this season, but in the upcoming seasons they will have more graduates so more draft choices.

The draft should be a sub-page in the League overview page.
To keep it as simple as possible, each team will create a wishlist/ shortlist.

Following the example I provided, with 75 players up for draft in my league.
Just like in the Tactics editor of Set Players, we can move players up and down and this way we create the wishlist. Just put the most desired player at the top. Then second most desired player on the second place. Etc etc.

Every player would have the Player Rating revealed, just like I described above (eg. World Class Defensive Midfielder). So managers will have some sort of idea about the potential of every player and can set their wishlist accordingly. Then press SAVE button.
Note: other managers cannot see how you configured your wishlist.

On day 89 draft starts. The draft order is as this: the team that took 12th place in your league will start with their first pick. Then 11th team. Etc etc. It all happens automatically, based on the wishlists

So the 12th team will get their most desired player as the first pick in the draft. Then 11th team gets their top desired player (unless the player is already picked by anotherteam). etc etc until League winner gets their pick. Then the process repeats, 12th team picks their second most desired player.

Of course: if a team has no picks in this season draft edition, we just skip the team in the process. Also, if the team had only like 2 picks and already chosen the 2 players, the this team is already skipped from the rest of the draft. The draft continues until all players are drafted. And they all are drafted because the game created the number of players equal to the number of available vacant spots in the academies of the teams in the league.

Note: inactive teams - should they particiapte at all? I don’t know, we can skip them.

Note: when the players are created, there should be a default order of the players on wishlists, so if some team (active team) does not make any changes at all, it will have the default wishlist order.

What does this draft system mean? It means that weakest team in the league will get to choose the top talent and strenghten their team ofr the future. I think it’s fair. In the end, the choice belongs to the manager, so perhaps they decide to choose a different player, not the one that other managers perceive as top player available.

For example, give all the U18 competitions, if you treat them seriously, you might want to draft players who will suit your tactics. Like you have many U18 defenders, but you need a striker, or a winger with aerial passing. You can try to find such player in the draft and make him your top priority pick, instead of some other player.


To summarize, what I like the most about this idea:
- teams from same league compete in the draft for the same players
- managers have the ability to know a bit more about the players’ potential
- managers have the ability to choose their top draft priorities
- there is still a huge difference in how 2 players with exact same rating description can look like when they fully develop all their skills, so the description provides some information, but you still don’t know if the “world class” youth will turn into a world class senior player, because you don’t know the distribution of maxings on other non-physical skills
- it removes the dull and fully luck based current youth system
- if the original scout rating is displayed in the player profile when he becomes a senior and it is displayed on the transfer market, the potential buyer might be able to figure out some unmaxings in the key, or secondary skills.


If you managed to read it, let me know what do you think about it.
Have a nice day :)
Views: 591 Posts: 10
 
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Re: Draft - New Youth system

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I can feel a lot of passion on this article. thank you sir your sugestion is really good, hopefully another users can express their thoughts like you :D.
But in my opinion i still have love hate love relationship with youth system at the moment. because it seems real, in real life we don't know exactly he is good or not. It may feel the same as when we discover our best youth maybe we think that he is the next messi. Just like seeing Bojan Krkic or munir el haddadi in the past, we will only know his true ability as time passes.

Re: Draft - New Youth system

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It seems like, potentially, you helped spur on our current youth scouting system. Well done!

Re: Draft - Novo sistema juvenil

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It's something to think about, I hope the crew sees this topic with affection!

Re: Draft - New Youth system

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Wow,the draft of current scout system

Re: Draft - New Youth system

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Wow... nicely thought and put together. I’m not sure the current youth system is bad per se but still this suggestion is very creative and could add to it; personally I think the scout system falls short on delivering an indication of the type of youngsters arriving to your team and some elements of this suggestion could improve it. Thanks lebanon21

Re: Draft - New Youth system

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You put alot of effort there.
Nice

Re: Draft - New Youth system

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Hi I am a little new here, I tried playing this game about 7 years ago but not a lot has changed. That was a well put idea for sure. Perhaps the administrators can get an idea or two.

In my opinion, right now the youth system, only needs one little fix. I think it should be easier to find out the true potential of a youth player (like in real life) after a week or two of training. Right now what I noticed is that a player can train just about the same every day (with or without a trainer), it should really show a higher training rate with a trainer in the skill that the player would most likely reach 8 or higher balls. I think this way, if you let's say, want to only train defenders for a couple of seasons, you will be able to find out within a week, if that player will be worth training or not, or just exchange him. Right now I am only training youth and out of the 32 I have, I don't know which will become at least great, they all train the same, some days at 50%, sometimes less, sometimes higher, is not a good system. Just the other day, one player was training at 50% the entire time and just got maxed out at 4 balls and I was hoping it would be at least an 8 baller (so I juste wasted about 5-6 of training one skill). I hope that what I am trying to say, makes sense.

Re: Draft - New Youth system

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I meant to write- wasted 5-6 weeks of training one skill that maxed out at 4 😁

Re: Draft - New Youth system

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[AUS]
President
Typically suggestions are always around making it easier for manager. That’s against the whole games principles. Interface and functionally should be really easy but how to manage your team shouldn’t necessarily be easier.

With the new youth potential scout report it already gives you a good guide on a players potential. It would have flagged your above example as low potential or a lowest potential skill before you wasted your time. Training is fine the way it is. You can’t make it too easy or we’d end up with all of these super players at 23 which is already happening a little. There needs to be an element of risk in training and not everything can be a hand out.

Re: Draft - New Youth system

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Chucky, I think that's where the developers of the game fail. If it was me, I would create a system where new managers can compete with the 5 plus years managers. I think that would even give the developers the opportunity to cash in more money. As where it stands right now. Why would I want to buy a membership if I know the team won't be competitive (and I mean top two leagues) at least for three real years of playing the game.
For instance, I could invest a whole (real) year in the 32 youths I have and there is a possibility that all of them will be crap. What do you think I might do? most likely quit the game. I think the administrators and developers have it wrong is some aspects of the games (Mostly the training part of it)and actually about seven years ago, it was the same situation.
 
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