Football » English » ManagerZone talk

Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By bestplaymaker2134 - 25-02-2018 03:18

[AUSNZ]

I don't want to be reminded that I'm a loserI don't want to be reminded that I'm a loser

 

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Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By frankiejhoffa - 25-02-2018 04:15

[AUSNZ]

Best you get rid of all your mirrors thenBest you get rid of all your mirrors then

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By theloyalone - 25-02-2018 05:01

lol

frankiejhoffa wrote:

Best you get rid of all your mirrors then

lol

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By civilu - 28-02-2018 14:58

[RAF]
President

I have just had today a manager brag about the many finals he had been in throughout the years. He never won any of them but he is still very proud of his silverware. Looks like he likes what he sees in the mirror...I have just had today a manager brag about the many finals he had been in throughout the years. He never won any of them but he is still very proud of his silverware.

Looks like he likes what he sees in the mirror...

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By tonnerwhu - 01-03-2018 14:51

[Celts]
President

This was the final nail in the coffin for me a year or so back. With lots of built-in buffers already in place for teams/managers, to reward losers a trophy purely for feel good purposes was hilarious. A legit, impressive trophy cabinet was the only thing keeping me interested in the end,... game over. [i] [color=red]Community rule 2.6 Evosa[/color][/i]This was the final nail in the coffin for me a year or so back. With lots of built-in buffers already in place for teams/managers, to reward losers a trophy purely for feel good purposes was hilarious. A legit, impressive trophy cabinet was the only thing keeping me interested in the end,... game over.

Community rule 2.6

Evosa

Edited: 01-03-2018 16:48
Total edits: 1

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 02-03-2018 11:26

[WCE]
President

The trophy cabinet isn't a cabinet anymore. We all have that messy room in our house/apartment where we store all of our useless stuff. Thats what the trophy cabinet has become. Displaying silver and bronze might have had a positive effect on some managers, but definitely a bad effect on those of us who were only counting gold. The game is quite lacking when it comes to highlighting managers achievements. For example: I have no idea who have won the WL for example. Where can I see a table of the previous winners? And this is the most prestigious competition on MZ. Is ManagerZone the only online manager game without any kind of inbuilt Hall of Fame? Heck, each of us have to use a calculator to find the amount of trophies we won (if we won a few). Why not have this information presented directly on the team page? Not to mention how the feature "Achievements" is built. No achievements when it comes to the really tough competitions like WL, Champions League, int. cup, etc. Why not have a section called "Impossible"? This one is funny: https://www.managerzone.com/?p=team&sub=awards&tid=109626 The guy has taken it in good spirits, and actually renamed his team to "Silverboys" [:)] Anybody play any other online games beside MZ? Do they have a Hall of Fame? No, I am not thinking of switching ;) It would be interesting to know if MZ is the only game that have decided to limit the prestige in winning stuff. Great to see you back again, although I fear it is a short visit. A couple of seasons ago I was trying to map the previous winners of U18 NE. Your name came up ;) Season 50 and 53 are still a blank though.The trophy cabinet isn't a cabinet anymore. We all have that messy room in our house/apartment where we store all of our useless stuff. Thats what the trophy cabinet has become. Displaying silver and bronze might have had a positive effect on some managers, but definitely a bad effect on those of us who were only counting gold.

The game is quite lacking when it comes to highlighting managers achievements.
For example: I have no idea who have won the WL for example. Where can I see a table of the previous winners? And this is the most prestigious competition on MZ.

Is ManagerZone the only online manager game without any kind of inbuilt Hall of Fame?
Heck, each of us have to use a calculator to find the amount of trophies we won (if we won a few). Why not have this information presented directly on the team page?

Not to mention how the feature "Achievements" is built. No achievements when it comes to the really tough competitions like WL, Champions League, int. cup, etc. Why not have a section called "Impossible"?

This one is funny:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=team&sub=awards&tid=109626

The guy has taken it in good spirits, and actually renamed his team to "Silverboys" :)

Anybody play any other online games beside MZ? Do they have a Hall of Fame?
No, I am not thinking of switching ;) It would be interesting to know if MZ is the only game that have decided to limit the prestige in winning stuff.

tonnerwhu wrote:

This was the final nail in the coffin for me a year or so back. With lots of built-in buffers already in place for teams/managers, to reward losers a trophy purely for feel good purposes was hilarious. A legit, impressive trophy cabinet was the only thing keeping me interested in the end,... game over.

Great to see you back again, although I fear it is a short visit. A couple of seasons ago I was trying to map the previous winners of U18 NE. Your name came up ;) Season 50 and 53 are still a blank though.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By tonnerwhu - 02-03-2018 12:32

[Celts]
President

The mighty Hanz, an advert for case in point, sporting a trophy cabinet that gives the mouse wheel a workout without the crappy silver/bronze prizes. Nice to see you're still grinding away dude. I can remember you trying to plug a Hall of Fame years back, and heck, I was all for it, your mentality is probably similar to mine: striving for the highest reputation; lead stats across the board, goalscorers, etc, you name it; collect and hoard the most prestigious awards; to be the Madrid of MZ, wouldn't matter if anyone noticed... I'd know. But hey, all that was cut short, for various reasons, but the effort was enjoyable nonetheless. I don't plan on having another crack anytime soon. My visit is mainly due to cabin fever - Scotland can't handle a bit of snow - and we're all housebound, at a standstill, wondering where the next loaf of bread is coming from, wondering if beagles really do taste like chicken. Not sure about the S50, S53 winners mate... I'll have a quick search just now, for a blast of nostalgia if nothing else.The mighty Hanz, an advert for case in point, sporting a trophy cabinet that gives the mouse wheel a workout without the crappy silver/bronze prizes. Nice to see you're still grinding away dude. I can remember you trying to plug a Hall of Fame years back, and heck, I was all for it, your mentality is probably similar to mine: striving for the highest reputation; lead stats across the board, goalscorers, etc, you name it; collect and hoard the most prestigious awards; to be the Madrid of MZ, wouldn't matter if anyone noticed... I'd know. But hey, all that was cut short, for various reasons, but the effort was enjoyable nonetheless. I don't plan on having another crack anytime soon. My visit is mainly due to cabin fever - Scotland can't handle a bit of snow - and we're all housebound, at a standstill, wondering where the next loaf of bread is coming from, wondering if beagles really do taste like chicken.

Not sure about the S50, S53 winners mate... I'll have a quick search just now, for a blast of nostalgia if nothing else.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By tonnerwhu - 02-03-2018 13:06

[Celts]
President

batman91 won those seasons. Best way to find out is go to official cups, all cups, filter U18 Champions Cup and check the roster... you not won one of those yet? Amateur ;)batman91 won those seasons. Best way to find out is go to official cups, all cups, filter U18 Champions Cup and check the roster... you not won one of those yet? Amateur ;)

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 02-03-2018 23:15

[WCE]
President

Yeah, I have been nagging about HOF for pretty much a decade now. I am certainly not one to give up! [:D] It is all about trying to win the game, it is that simple. The only way to do this is to win more than any other team. There are a few who have won more significant trophies, but then again, I took a 10 season break until just a few seasons ago ;) Not to brag (well kinda), I wanted to count my trophies today. Instead of actually counting them by number, I counted them by the amount of seconds it would take me to scroll to the bottom (using the arrow key). It took 1 minute and 16 seconds. My goal is to make browsers crash. It is one way to get the attention of Crew regarding the messy cabinet. Thanks for the info, it didn't strike my mind to check the U18 Champions League. You are probably one of the very few to win the Champions League for both seniors and juniors. Sadly I am among the few to know ;) Hopefully the cold from Siberia will last for some more weeks, until you are addicted yet again! Funny Scotland can't handle snow, since you seem to handle it better than any other country when it melts before it hits the ground.Yeah, I have been nagging about HOF for pretty much a decade now. I am certainly not one to give up! :D

It is all about trying to win the game, it is that simple. The only way to do this is to win more than any other team. There are a few who have won more significant trophies, but then again, I took a 10 season break until just a few seasons ago ;)

Not to brag (well kinda), I wanted to count my trophies today. Instead of actually counting them by number, I counted them by the amount of seconds it would take me to scroll to the bottom (using the arrow key). It took 1 minute and 16 seconds. My goal is to make browsers crash. It is one way to get the attention of Crew regarding the messy cabinet.

Thanks for the info, it didn't strike my mind to check the U18 Champions League. You are probably one of the very few to win the Champions League for both seniors and juniors. Sadly I am among the few to know ;)

Hopefully the cold from Siberia will last for some more weeks, until you are addicted yet again! Funny Scotland can't handle snow, since you seem to handle it better than any other country when it melts before it hits the ground.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 02-03-2018 23:31

[WCE]
President

[img]http://thedeepzone.no/shared/u18ne_winners.png[/img] Finally the list has been completed. Your next to unbeatable pts record from season 48 was beaten by the way ;)

Finally the list has been completed. Your next to unbeatable pts record from season 48 was beaten by the way ;)

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By civilu - 03-03-2018 16:09

[RAF]
President

Just 41 seconds long but I also haven't played anything competitive for the last 20 seasons or so...

hanzinho wrote:

Not to brag (well kinda), I wanted to count my trophies today. Instead of actually counting them by number, I counted them by the amount of seconds it would take me to scroll to the bottom (using the arrow key). It took 1 minute and 16 seconds.

Just 41 seconds long but I also haven't played anything competitive for the last 20 seasons or so...

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 03-03-2018 19:27

[WCE]
President

41 sec is pretty decent aswell. Soon LOF, and I expect to add a good 20 or 30 seconds.41 sec is pretty decent aswell.
Soon LOF, and I expect to add a good 20 or 30 seconds.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By aikaik (Crew) - 04-03-2018 12:45

[MZS]
President

1 minute and 49 seconds here... [H] We definitely want to make changes to how the trophies are displayed/presented. There is a lot of room for improvement [:)]1 minute and 49 seconds here...

We definitely want to make changes to how the trophies are displayed/presented. There is a lot of room for improvement

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By tree_amigos - 06-03-2018 02:32

[MZUSA]
President

Without the seconds and thirds I would have a very very empty trophy case. I for one vote to keep them. Makes me smile to remember the days when I was almost good enough. [:D]Without the seconds and thirds I would have a very very empty trophy case. I for one vote to keep them. Makes me smile to remember the days when I was almost good enough.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By darkline - 06-03-2018 12:14

[FLUSA]
President

2nd & 3rd place trophies are annoying because they're mixed up with the 1st place trophies, so it's hard to see at a glance how many official cups anyone won. Maybe just sent them to a separate section or something.2nd & 3rd place trophies are annoying because they're mixed up with the 1st place trophies, so it's hard to see at a glance how many official cups anyone won.

Maybe just sent them to a separate section or something.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By tree_amigos - 07-03-2018 00:32

[MZUSA]
President

I can definitely see being able to sort by either season or place depending upon manager choice being a good solution.I can definitely see being able to sort by either season or place depending upon manager choice being a good solution.

Uuesti: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By micca - 07-03-2018 05:08

[Eesti]
President

Good luck trying to beat my goals scored run in S57 ;) and 4 golden U18 trophies that season (few people have managed it). Trophy cabinet phantasmagoria/lack of Hall of Fame is quite an oversight.

hanzinho wrote:

Finally the list has been completed. Your next to unbeatable pts record from season 48 was beaten by the way ;)

Good luck trying to beat my goals scored run in S57 ;) and 4 golden U18 trophies that season (few people have managed it).

Trophy cabinet phantasmagoria/lack of Hall of Fame is quite an oversight.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 07-03-2018 09:57

[WCE]
President

Yeah 101 goals is a pretty tall order! :) When I collected data, I saw you had been quite dominant during those seasons. The only thing missing in your trophy cabinet is the really big one, U18 WL. It is an elusive one! I am not even sure it is an oversight. I mean, the game was launched in 2001, and currently the year is 2018. I'd lean towards saying it is "company policy" to tone down this aspect of the game. A kinda "the important thing is to participate, not win" motto. Crew might assume some managers will be more prone to leave the game if they see how well others are doing. I'd say this strategy by Crew is quite likely, based on how Achievements works for example. It is not really an achievement when you draw 3 games in a row, or when you get +10 shots fired against you in the U18 league. I am yet to "achieve" either. Not to mention that one of the Elite achievements is to win all your league games in the lowest division, against inactive opponents.Yeah 101 goals is a pretty tall order! :)

When I collected data, I saw you had been quite dominant during those seasons. The only thing missing in your trophy cabinet is the really big one, U18 WL. It is an elusive one!

I am not even sure it is an oversight. I mean, the game was launched in 2001, and currently the year is 2018. I'd lean towards saying it is "company policy" to tone down this aspect of the game. A kinda "the important thing is to participate, not win" motto. Crew might assume some managers will be more prone to leave the game if they see how well others are doing.

I'd say this strategy by Crew is quite likely, based on how Achievements works for example. It is not really an achievement when you draw 3 games in a row, or when you get +10 shots fired against you in the U18 league. I am yet to "achieve" either. Not to mention that one of the Elite achievements is to win all your league games in the lowest division, against inactive opponents.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By ozteam - 07-03-2018 11:34

[Eesti]

Most managers don't have hundreds of trophies and every trophy counts! Silver and bronze trophies must stay (maybe some kind of filter could be added)! And more stats on achievements would be much appreciated!Most managers don't have hundreds of trophies and every trophy counts! Silver and bronze trophies must stay (maybe some kind of filter could be added)!

And more stats on achievements would be much appreciated!

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By darkline - 07-03-2018 13:13

[FLUSA]
President

I prefer to have just one trophy for a cup I won than a 100 useless trophies that makes the one true achievement invisible since it's just drowned somewhere between all the fake trophies. Just create a section for Champion trophies and a different section for the rest of the them... More stats and special cups for different achievements would be nice too... for example I won the last 5 U18 National Cups, instead of 5 trophies for the same thing, I'd love to get just one larger special trophy that I could display instead....

ozteam wrote:

Most managers don't have hundreds of trophies and every trophy counts! Silver and bronze trophies must stay (maybe some kind of filter could be added)!

And more stats on achievements would be much appreciated!

I prefer to have just one trophy for a cup I won than a 100 useless trophies that makes the one true achievement invisible since it's just drowned somewhere between all the fake trophies.

Just create a section for Champion trophies and a different section for the rest of the them...

More stats and special cups for different achievements would be nice too... for example I won the last 5 U18 National Cups, instead of 5 trophies for the same thing, I'd love to get just one larger special trophy that I could display instead....

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By civilu - 07-03-2018 16:33

[RAF]
President

Yeah, and making the Elite Cups trophies stand out from the rest of them would also be nice. I have a Championship Cup which looks exactly the same as any other amicable cup I also won...Yeah, and making the Elite Cups trophies stand out from the rest of them would also be nice. I have a Championship Cup which looks exactly the same as any other amicable cup I also won...

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By darkline - 07-03-2018 17:58

[FLUSA]
President

Agree! Got one of those too and the trophy doesn't stand out as anything special.

civilu wrote:

Yeah, and making the Elite Cups trophies stand out from the rest of them would also be nice. I have a Championship Cup which looks exactly the same as any other amicable cup I also won...

Agree! Got one of those too and the trophy doesn't stand out as anything special.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 07-03-2018 18:37

[WCE]
President

I'vet got one aswell [:D] I agree. It looks like any other trophy, which is a shame, since it is the biggest trophy you can win here on MZ (perhaps with the exception of WL).I'vet got one aswell :D
I agree. It looks like any other trophy, which is a shame, since it is the biggest trophy you can win here on MZ (perhaps with the exception of WL).

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 08-03-2018 20:44

[WCE]
President

Hopefully Crew can pimp up the Cup Winners Cup trophy before it arrives my cabinet tomorrow [H]Hopefully Crew can pimp up the Cup Winners Cup trophy before it arrives my cabinet tomorrow H

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By scruttino - 09-03-2018 05:32

[AUSNZ]

#Pimpmycabinet

hanzinho wrote:

Hopefully Crew can pimp up the Cup Winners Cup trophy before it arrives my cabinet tomorrow

#Pimpmycabinet

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By civilu - 09-03-2018 08:08

[RAF]
President

And if they're at it, maybe they can also make it so that we can choose (like for cups to be displayed) the player/s we want to be shown in the team page. I don't want to see my clone youths there, I want to see the captain or any other valuable member of the team. PS: A graph would be nice, in which to show the amount of cups won in history (separate lines for elite cups, official cups, friendly cups and FLs). PS2: Come to think about it, even for the official league a graph would be nice, with points marking each season but bronze/silver/golden stars for the seasons in which you won the respective league. Seasons on the horizontal, division on the vertical... you get the picture...And if they're at it, maybe they can also make it so that we can choose (like for cups to be displayed) the player/s we want to be shown in the team page. I don't want to see my clone youths there, I want to see the captain or any other valuable member of the team.

PS: A graph would be nice, in which to show the amount of cups won in history (separate lines for elite cups, official cups, friendly cups and FLs).

PS2: Come to think about it, even for the official league a graph would be nice, with points marking each season but bronze/silver/golden stars for the seasons in which you won the respective league. Seasons on the horizontal, division on the vertical... you get the picture...

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 09-03-2018 10:17

[WCE]
President

Yeah, and that is just for starters! :) Strange that the finance page has more finesse than any other page. It even has, wait for it, wait for it.... GRAPHS!

civilu wrote:

And if they're at it, maybe they can also make it so that we can choose (like for cups to be displayed) the player/s we want to be shown in the team page. I don't want to see my clone youths there, I want to see the captain or any other valuable member of the team.

PS: A graph would be nice, in which to show the amount of cups won in history (separate lines for elite cups, official cups, friendly cups and FLs).

PS2: Come to think about it, even for the official league a graph would be nice, with points marking each season but bronze/silver/golden stars for the seasons in which you won the respective league. Seasons on the horizontal, division on the vertical... you get the picture...

Yeah, and that is just for starters! :)

Strange that the finance page has more finesse than any other page. It even has, wait for it, wait for it.... GRAPHS!

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By ozteam - 09-03-2018 14:49

[Eesti]

We have a leaderboard that ranks all Estonian MZ teams, based on their performance in official senior level cups (only podium places count). All results since the beginning of MZ are included in the table. Once per season we are making an overview in the Estonian Zone, which teams have managed to earn points to the table and what is the current ranking list. This gives a great additional incentive for managers - trying to improve their position in the ranking. [b]A team receives points like this (first place, second place, third place):[/b] Top Division: 65 - 45 - 30 Small Cups (Season Cup, Division Cup, National Cup): 50 - 35 - 25 Elite Cups (CHampions Cup, Top Teams ...) and Prized Cups: 100 - 75 - 55 Official Cups (Defenders Cup, Endurance Cup etc): 135 - 105 - 80 I would love to have something similar for the entire MZ. You can see the current leaderboard here: https://www.managerzone.com/thezone/paper.php?paper_id=15037&page=5&sport=soccerWe have a leaderboard that ranks all Estonian MZ teams, based on their performance in official senior level cups (only podium places count). All results since the beginning of MZ are included in the table.

Once per season we are making an overview in the Estonian Zone, which teams have managed to earn points to the table and what is the current ranking list. This gives a great additional incentive for managers - trying to improve their position in the ranking.

A team receives points like this (first place, second place, third place):
Top Division: 65 - 45 - 30
Small Cups (Season Cup, Division Cup, National Cup): 50 - 35 - 25
Elite Cups (CHampions Cup, Top Teams ...) and Prized Cups: 100 - 75 - 55
Official Cups (Defenders Cup, Endurance Cup etc): 135 - 105 - 80

I would love to have something similar for the entire MZ.

You can see the current leaderboard here:
https://www.managerzone.com/thezone/paper.php?paper_id=15037&page=5&sport=soccer

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 20-03-2018 15:07

[WCE]
President

2 minutes and 2 seconds here now [:D] Advice to those of you who want to add seconds to your trophy list: Start a LoF war with China. You might want to have somebody from IT having a look at your PC. You seem to have some serious amount of bloatware, malware and bitcoin miners slowing down you PC. It takes me 33 seconds to scroll through your trophy list.2 minutes and 2 seconds here now :D

Advice to those of you who want to add seconds to your trophy list: Start a LoF war with China.

aikaik wrote:

1 minute and 49 seconds here... H

You might want to have somebody from IT having a look at your PC. You seem to have some serious amount of bloatware, malware and bitcoin miners slowing down you PC. It takes me 33 seconds to scroll through your trophy list.

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 20-03-2018 15:10

[WCE]
President

Thats clever. I might add something similar for the Norwegian community aswell. The pts seems reasonable.

ozteam wrote:

We have a leaderboard that ranks all Estonian MZ teams, based on their performance in official senior level cups (only podium places count). All results since the beginning of MZ are included in the table.

Once per season we are making an overview in the Estonian Zone, which teams have managed to earn points to the table and what is the current ranking list. This gives a great additional incentive for managers - trying to improve their position in the ranking.

A team receives points like this (first place, second place, third place):
Top Division: 65 - 45 - 30
Small Cups (Season Cup, Division Cup, National Cup): 50 - 35 - 25
Elite Cups (CHampions Cup, Top Teams ...) and Prized Cups: 100 - 75 - 55
Official Cups (Defenders Cup, Endurance Cup etc): 135 - 105 - 80

I would love to have something similar for the entire MZ.

You can see the current leaderboard here:
https://www.managerzone.com/thezone/paper.php?paper_id=15037&page=5&sport=soccer

Thats clever. I might add something similar for the Norwegian community aswell. The pts seems reasonable.

Sv: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By aikaik (Crew) - 20-03-2018 16:10

[MZS]
President

It's spelled Apple, like the fruit [H]

hanzinho wrote:

2 minutes and 2 seconds here now

Advice to those of you who want to add seconds to your trophy list: Start a LoF war with China.


You might want to have somebody from IT having a look at your PC. You seem to have some serious amount of bloatware, malware and bitcoin miners slowing down you PC. It takes me 33 seconds to scroll through your trophy list.

It's spelled Apple, like the fruit

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 20-03-2018 16:35

[WCE]
President

Ah, that would explain the slow scrolling speed. Browsers for Macintosh OS is designed to scroll slower, since users on that platform generally need a bit more time to read what is on the screen. [:P]Ah, that would explain the slow scrolling speed. Browsers for Macintosh OS is designed to scroll slower, since users on that platform generally need a bit more time to read what is on the screen.

:P

Sv: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By aikaik (Crew) - 20-03-2018 16:50

[MZS]
President

haha [;)]

hanzinho wrote:

Ah, that would explain the slow scrolling speed. Browsers for Macintosh OS is designed to scroll slower, since users on that platform generally need a bit more time to read what is on the screen.

haha

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By civilu - 20-03-2018 17:38

[RAF]
President

That's what [b]she[/b] said... before running away in dispair! [:P]

hanzinho wrote:

2 minutes and 2 seconds here now

That's what she said... before running away in dispair!

Re: Get rid of 2nd/3rd place trophies please

By hanzinho - 20-03-2018 19:23

[WCE]
President

Come on now! We don't need to hear about your experiences lately! Let's keep it civil, not civilu [:D]Come on now! We don't need to hear about your experiences lately! Let's keep it civil, not civilu :D

 

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