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23-01-2021 08:26
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Season 77 · Week 3 · Day 19
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How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Here are the steps to follow in order to clone a tactic using the Chrome MZ Chrome Match Viewer & Analyzer extension, with just a couple of copy-paste:
1. If you don't have the extension installed do it from the following link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mz-chrome-match-viewer-an/dkmhhddfoojmodcjegnnnjamdbmpcnmb).
2. Choose a team match that you want to clone their tactics.
3. View the match with the extension (click on the orange ball icon on the right-top corner in Chrome and then click on the Go to View the Match in the popup that opens below the ball icon. Now, you can see the match window.
4. You do not need to see the game, but if you want to do it, simply click Download and View.
5. Go to the tab Players, then select the team to clone.
6. Now go to ManagerZone tactic editor page and select the destination tactic. You must take in account that you 11 players must be in the field. Then click Import / Export tactic.
7. Click the Export button. You will see in the text box something begining like:
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
8. In the text box do right button Select All and then Copy.
9. Return to the Players tab of the extension. In the text box (where you can read "Paste your current XML exported tactic here ..." do right button Paste. And then do click on the button Clone Tactic (XML).
10. Now you can read a message: “The tactic to Import was copied to the Clipboard!”.
11. Return to the ManagerZone Tactics page. Delete the content of the text box and do right button Paste. Now click Import and in few seconds you can see your players at the same positions of the cloned tactic.
12. Finally, check if the players are in the right position and intenchange them if it's necessary and then click Save only this Tactic. The initial tactic was cloned. You can see that the Tactics, Style and Aggrassion field also be cloned.
13. Enjoy!
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Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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"my own tactic".... hehehehe... its really funny!

Regards!

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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mihairo wrote:
I never posted here and this is a one timer, I assure you.
It's not fair to steal the ideas of somebody who put some hard work into tactical solutions.
We should discover the beauty of this game by ourselves.
I wasted hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to make my tactics work.
Now it's easy to clone them.
It's like saying to Guardiola, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Klopp, Emery etc. "Hey I will clone your tactic and I'm not asking for your permission."
This "thing" you did spoiled a lot of fun for many of us, who were committed to the game.
I never used it and I never will. I am stil trying to enjoy my game, but it's a bit frustrating to see someone I defeated last season winning against me with my own tactics this season.
This is why I am enjoying just hockey right now.
I mean, why bother invest another hard work into something easy to steal for others.
Anyway, I see everybody says that it's more fun when it's easy.


Don't worry man! Nobody is gonna look to your team to stole your tactics!

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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mihairo wrote:
I never posted here and this is a one timer, I assure you.
It's not fair to steal the ideas of somebody who put some hard work into tactical solutions.
We should discover the beauty of this game by ourselves.
I wasted hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to make my tactics work.
Now it's easy to clone them.

It's like saying to Guardiola, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Klopp, Emery etc. "Hey I will clone your tactic and I'm not asking for your permission."
This "thing" you did spoiled a lot of fun for many of us, who were committed to the game.
I never used it and I never will. I am stil trying to enjoy my game, but it's a bit frustrating to see someone I defeated last season winning against me with my own tactics this season.
This is why I am enjoying just hockey right now.
I mean, why bother invest another hard work into something easy to steal for others.
Anyway, I see everybody says that it's more fun when it's easy.


Seeing your achievements in the game I agree with you, I think you've wasted your time investing hundreds or thousands of hours to find winning tactics.
Do you really think that someone is going to clone YOUR tactics?

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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mihairo wrote:
I never posted here and this is a one timer, I assure you.
It's not fair to steal the ideas of somebody who put some hard work into tactical solutions.
We should discover the beauty of this game by ourselves.
I wasted hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to make my tactics work.
Now it's easy to clone them.
It's like saying to Guardiola, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Klopp, Emery etc. "Hey I will clone your tactic and I'm not asking for your permission."
This "thing" you did spoiled a lot of fun for many of us, who were committed to the game.
I never used it and I never will. I am stil trying to enjoy my game, but it's a bit frustrating to see someone I defeated last season winning against me with my own tactics this season.
This is why I am enjoying just hockey right now.
I mean, why bother invest another hard work into something easy to steal for others.
Anyway, I see everybody says that it's more fun when it's easy.


We are polite people.

// edited by raamatupood
Edited: 12-02-2019 22:53
Total edits: 2

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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You people are so funny.
All your trophies appear after February 2017, that's exactly after this thread appeared.
Just see my hockey team, which I enjoy and spend most of my time with. Now that's a real trophy cabinet.
You should try to clone it, to have something to show for.
Hehe.
What's pretty bad is that you don't know a good laugh when you see it.
Just chill.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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mihairo wrote:
You people are so funny.
All your trophies appear after February 2017, that's exactly after this thread appeared.
Just see my hockey team, which I enjoy and spend most of my time with. Now that's a real trophy cabinet.
You should try to clone it, to have something to show for.
Hehe.
What's pretty bad is that you don't know a good laugh when you see it.
Just chill.


I never used the extension and I also won official cups, leagues, FL and friendly cups before 2017.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Maybe that was just me being mean ;)
Look, everybody can enjoy the game how they consider fit as long as they enjoy it.
I really have no problem with that.
I'm glad we can laugh about it.
I wish you all the best.

Ant: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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mihairo wrote:
Maybe that was just me being mean ;)
Look, everybody can enjoy the game how they consider fit as long as they enjoy it.
I really have no problem with that.
I'm glad we can laugh about it.
I wish you all the best.


Now this is a guy who sees his mistake, and trying to cover it up with; it's just a joke..

Anyhow gl to all of you

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Continue believing that...
It was a mistake not to cheat.
You sayd it.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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You play since 2008 and you won nothing.

Just continue playing and let's have friendly conversations.

// edited by raamatupood
Edited: 12-02-2019 22:55
Total edits: 1

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Guys, attitude "crybaby", "go quit" and blaming others in cheating is not cool.
Be neutral and accept different oppinions.


Both are right.

mihairo is sort-of right - extensions are giving big advantages to too many people - like he told, most of leaders are doing probably "easy homeworks".
The extension is tool which is not optional in Premier Leagues, feels so?
- if want to win there, must use that tool, too - to win time and be same effective?

mihairo is right, that extensions suck fun out from game, also frustates managers who actually do the hard work with their tactics/counter-tactics .
-- if you want to argue, then go to your tactics, select one player in the tactic field and press any arrow key - you see, how little the player moves, then? Cloning will make tactics too easy.

One thing is if people share their tactics to trusted friends, other is, that anyone can copy it and will start to use it in just a few clicks. Any newbie can have 100% accurate professional tactics ? Is that normal, really?
Don't forget - this is game, the tactics are built to manipulate SIM, to get best results.


My personal oppinion is that game should be fair.
Fine, people support game with buying tokens, fine, older teams are more rich.
But using third-party to win opponents in sports - not cool.

I don't judge, because tactics cloning and using thrid-party tools are not illegal.
So, mihairo, don't tell people they are cheaters because they are using extensions.



.
Edited: 12-02-2019 23:22
Total edits: 4

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[WCE]
President
Anyone who devote time to create a better gaming experience for others, deserve nothing but praise. It is sad when such effort are being attacked by people who know absolutely nothing, including game admin who should know better.

Keep up the good work walokr! :)

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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And mihairo ... Even if MZ would ban that tool.
Do you think people stop cloning tactics, when they are used to that?

They still clone tactics somehow - create another extension or program for that.

Better have that tool available for all, not for just "closed circle".

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
The tool is a lot more powerful than just cloning tactics, it has many other utilities for analyzing games and helping with your own tactics, for example it allows you to mirror your tactics, I'd say cloning a tactic isn't even that useful as you have to understand and know how the tactic works & where to put your key players & usually managers that create tactics, create a tactic that suit his players and not necessarily might suit any other... and anyway, to clone another managers tactic you don't even need a tool.

Also, I'm guessing this tool is a good help for newbies with little tactical knowledge, they can clone other peoples tactics, try to play around with the tactic, experiment a bit, see what works better for them.

And anyway, if you somehow manage to create a superpowerful top secret tactic that no one ever saw before in MZ then just put a good tactic as starter, swap it five minutes into the game and your secrets will be protected.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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hanzinho wrote:
Anyone who devote time to create a better gaming experience for others, deserve nothing but praise. It is sad when such effort are being attacked by people who know absolutely nothing, including game admin who should know better.

Keep up the good work walokr! :)


Admin is attacking who? I was fair.

Maybe rank 2 is attacking/manipulating new admin already second time to make him stay away from specific threads, which main core is "How to win opponents 100%" ?

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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darkline wrote:
The tool is a lot more powerful than just cloning tactics, it has many other utilities for analyzing games and helping with your own tactics, for example it allows you to mirror your tactics, I'd say cloning a tactic isn't even that useful as you have to understand and know how the tactic works & where to put your key players & usually managers that create tactics, create a tactic that suit his players and not necessarily might suit any other... and anyway, to clone another managers tactic you don't even need a tool.

Also, I'm guessing this tool is a good help for newbies with little tactical knowledge, they can clone other peoples tactics, try to play around with the tactic, experiment a bit, see what works better for them.

And anyway, if you somehow manage to create a superpowerful top secret tactic that no one ever saw before in MZ then just put a good tactic as starter, swap it five minutes into the game and your secrets will be protected.


Crew should learn those tools and integrate them with game.
If they are available and they are popular, then why not?

Then there will be less complaints, too. Some people can't install them, some just have principles... Some don't know these tools are available.
Edited: 13-02-2019 00:03
Total edits: 2

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
raamatupood wrote:
Crew should learn those tools and integrate them with game.
If they are available and they are popular, then why not?

Then there will be less complaints, too. Some people can't install them, some just have principles...


So people that install the tool don't have principles? Anyway, I don't particularly care for the cloning functionality but I do use the tool for mirroring my tactics and for copying an alt-tactic to main or to a different alt-tactic and yes, not sure if it's feasible but I'll be cool if crew could provide this functionality without having to use an external tool to do it.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[TDF]
President
darkline wrote:
The tool is a lot more powerful than just cloning tactics, it has many other utilities for analyzing games and helping with your own tactics, for example it allows you to mirror your tactics, I'd say cloning a tactic isn't even that useful as you have to understand and know how the tactic works & where to put your key players & usually managers that create tactics, create a tactic that suit his players and not necessarily might suit any other... and anyway, to clone another managers tactic you don't even need a tool.


Amen to that. Analyzing is the main reason for my usage of this tool. As well as mirroring my own tactics and swapping between the starting formation and the alternative formations.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[TDF]
President
raamatupood wrote:
Crew should learn those tools and integrate them with game.
If they are available and they are popular, then why not?


So now you're on my side, raama? It should definitely be integrated to the tactics editor. Both mirroring and swapping starting and alternative formations, hence this thread:

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12459513&forum_id=13&sport=soccer#44718942

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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I play with open cards, I started thread in Admin Forum, lets see what crew answers :


https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12088844&forum_id=10&sport=soccer#44718879

The Tactics Cloning thread got heated a bit, people say that feature should be available in game - it wins time, is teaching SIM and helps to win (all credits to elders, I just made conclusion).


Some managers (including me) have principles to not install third-party add-ons to browser. Thats why game needs to offer better tactics presets and same comfort for maximum managers.
Some people can't install extensions, some don't know these are available. Some say it is cheating .


Crew can see statistics, check latest most popular tactics from database, and offer those as in default Formation Presets.


* Most popular should be updated automatically (weekly) and list of tactics contain more than 3 examples (10 or ++).
* More hardcore would be, if those popular tactic presets are gathered only from Premier League or Top 100(-500?) managers statistics.
* You noticed from picture I changed "Formation Presets" to "Tactics Presets" = When manager picks the tactics .. the passing, mentality and pressing should change together.
* Clever people are switching tactics after 5 minutes game started to hide their real "winner" - the statistics should "read" minutes, too.
+ add "mirror the tactic" feature = "most popular" is smart and checks mirrors, to put A1 and A2 together as A.

Game goes more competitive then - people lose their comfort and start to take bigger risks, by tweaking 100% safe tactics.

Because .. if there are a lot of most popular tactics (used by elite clubs) on the list, these will include counter-tactics, too, I am sure.


+ Of course, if manager wants, he should be able to clone desired tactics from any random managers. That button is missing (copy tactics to clipboard .. or .. copy tactic to slot X and save it - X slot is only for cloning).

// Thing is - managers are cloning tactics anyways, the tool is available, better make it so, the feature is built in game?
I believe this is not first time this story is on the table.. well.. now it is 2019 (better coding?) and crew can contact the programmer who built the extension to speed up bringing it in to game for bigger masses?
Edited: 13-02-2019 03:27
Total edits: 4

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
We can also have the auto-pilot option in which MZ will select the optimum players and tactics for you and then perform an history search on your opponent to determine which is the best tactic you can use based on his past games.... that way, all an user would have to do is login once a week to set his friendlies, check how his team did and all set, though maybe, for people that don't want to login more than once or twice a month, we should get an option to schedule all our friendlies one month in advance.

Another good one that we can start working on is the auto-transfer market feature, you'll hire an assistant manager that will buy and sell players for you, so you let him do all the boring strategical & finantial work while you sit on the sun drinking margaritas and waiting for the cups and league trophies to arrive.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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:)

Yeah, I understand the irony. But this is what the extension does for game - this is the nature of human being - to do same like leaders do. People copy the tactics, tool is available - this kills the brainwork - like mihairo pointed out here (and got beaten up because of that).
If to keep game fair - that feature should be built in game and available for all.


ANYWAYS, peace. I see this cloning actually is useful - don't miss the important part :

" Game goes more competitive then - people lose their comfort and start to take bigger risks, by tweaking 100% safe tactics.

Because .. if there are a lot of most popular tactics (used by elite clubs) on the list, these will include counter-tactics, too, I am sure.
"

= even minor edit may bring change to game result.

// I edit "update daily" to "weekly".

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
You don't realize that there's a lot more helpful stuff than a simple cloning tool, you clone a tactic that you don't know how it works and doesn't suit your team and you won't get results, you won't learn a thing, a lot of managers don't mind sharing tips... for example, some threads in the spanish forums in which they discuss in dept the benefits of different tactics, what counter tactics to use, etc. etc. , would it bother you that people freely share and discuss tactics and tips?

Here's your basic tactics from one of those threads, it's a pretty good starting point to experiment and you won't have to install any extension



I wouldn't mind if they put a button to clone the starting lineup of any game as long as you can still hide your real tactic if you want, also a couple of preset tactics for newbies it's fine too, but no need to go beyond that.

The only functionality that I'd be really interested in is mirroring and swapping starting and alternative formations, because that's useful to me.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Honestly. If it would up to me, I'd ban all third-party cloning/spy tools. But since game results and tactics are all public, any good programmer can figure out how to copy these - fight with windmills.

The reality is, some/many use that extension and this is the present of MZ in 2019.
Thread has 3198 views.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Yeah, teaching SIM's basics is great work!

I had it in my mind, too, to start new thread and let people talk about tactics deeply (how SIM reacts and works). I am same-minded - to focus more on indivual tactics. If "most popular tactic" or "cloning" will be available - I still use my-own tactics.

When I see this "SIM is broken" poping-up and now this current thread - I get feeling sharing KNOWLEDGE is not cool here, anymore. Old newbie testing days are forgotten/forbidden and now 100% win is most important issue.

Manager asked help with tactics, I used all my instant credits to help him, nobody else reacted to thread .. did I give bad or good advice :
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12465312&forum_id=12&sport=soccer
Edited: 13-02-2019 04:12
Total edits: 1

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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gunsandrosesfc- wrote:
You play since 2008 and you won nothing.


I am a hockey fan, but I'm here because I am an MZ fan too, and I won more than just lots of trophies which can be easily seen.
Not all people played this game to win Championships. There is more here than meets the eye.

raamatupood wrote:
And mihairo ... Even if MZ would ban that tool.
Do you think people stop cloning tactics, when they are used to that?

They still clone tactics somehow - create another extension or program for that.

Better have that tool available for all, not for just "closed circle".


The Pandora's box was already open, so it's unstoppable now.
And for those who use it, have fun!

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
raamatupood wrote:
Manager asked help with tactics, I used all my instant credits to help him, nobody else reacted to thread .. did I give bad or good advice :
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12465312&forum_id=12&sport=soccer


Local language forums are usually more helpful, the english forums are more like an international forum and there isn't really a sense of community, so people is less likely to reply to that kind of thread here.

Anyway, that's a perfect example of someone that might need to clone tactics, the guy you helped has been playing since 2008, is the NC for his Country and still he's asking for help on the forums because he came against teams playing wings and doesn't know what to do.... cloning tactics is for newbies or users like the one you helped that even after 11 years playing the game is still having troubles finding a decent tactic.

In any case, you don't need any tool to clone a tactic as they're on public display, you just click on any game and you'll see a drawing with the tactics use to start the match, it needs very little work really to copy a tactic and if instead of using a tool you do it manually, you might find that your own version works better than the one you intended to clone.

Now walokr needs to create a tool to clone hockey tactics, you can't see the tactics in hockey and I'm sure mihairo will be trilled with a tool like that :D

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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My test told me that if I move players just a little bit, the results will change. So cloning tactics 1:1 with program is not quite copying tactics visually from image.

With program: manager can have mathematically "perfect" formation - you know, SIM can be manipulated with coordinating players.

Example:

I invite my friend to game, I tell him to install the cloner. He does few clicks and has best tactics now. Wins his newbie league easily (he has no skills, just copy-paste) -- other players there have tried to figure out their tactics with their own heads.
After some seasons: Extension-managers feel they are better managers than those "old newbies", attitude is high. "Old newbies" leave the game - because new bosses have no respect to old school. At the end all top clubs are cloners. Then they start to whine, game is too easy or why they didn't win the games, when they had best teams/tactics? They don't understand why crew has coded random in to SIM. Then comes second quit-wave.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
It just doesn't work like that, you don't know what team has mathematically perfect tactics, most of the top teams don't have perfect tactics, many of them are not even good tacticians, they just have really good players and will always come on top regardless of the tactic they use.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Correct. Keyword is better players.

Then tactics cloning is not a problem and case Claused ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihXVA-CzfIQ ).
Edited: 13-02-2019 16:07
Total edits: 2

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
Why don't you put it to test? Just create a league with teams of your same level, clone all the tactics you want and then if your theory is right, you'll just blow your competition away.....

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Nah, I was just messing around to cool down other guys. Like you noticed I was mirrored many times - I was supporting the cloning and also in attitude to ban the cloning. Two assistants are discussing the "problem", looking forward to future, in same time.


What ever they/we/you think about cloning - keyword is better players - like you said, too.

There are pros and cons in cloning, examples are above.

Security? Currently it is not dangerous,
but will be issue in future, when (other) programmers get their tools that smart these learn SIM so well these will offer best counter-tactics (computes players's skills and all).

Anyways, random will take care of us
and
human mind can check suspicious managers's match results, recognize weird always 100% succesful counters and then decide the next steps. No worries.
Edited: 13-02-2019 16:39
Total edits: 1

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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Tem como clonar as taticas alternativas ?? Pelo que vi nao tem como né ???

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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madureira wrote:
Tem como clonar as taticas alternativas ?? Pelo que vi nao tem como né ???

Google translator: "Its clone alternative tactics ?? From what has not seen as right ???"

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
madureira wrote:
Tem como clonar as taticas alternativas ?? Pelo que vi nao tem como né ???


You can't clone alternative tactics, the tool doesn't provide a way to do that.

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
Btw, I can read portuguese but can't write it :D

Ri: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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darkline wrote:
You can't clone alternative tactics, the tool doesn't provide a way to do that.


that's great so all you need to do is change your tactic after 5 minutes. Luckily nobody will be able to clone it...for the moment!

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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darkline wrote:
Btw, I can read portuguese but can't write it :D


:)

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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There are news!
If you want to use the MZ chrome extension read this link:
https://www.managerzone.com/?p=forum&sub=topic&topic_id=12644709&forum_id=10&sport=soccer#45059500

Have a nice day!

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[MIC]
President
darkline wrote:
You can't clone alternative tactics, the tool doesn't provide a way to do that.


The truth is, the tool CANNOT CLONE alternative formation. But the tool is able to log passing, mentality and pressing changes (all you have to do is clicking the Statistic Tab)

Re: How to clone a tactic (It's possible).

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[FLUSA]
President
abanesta wrote:
The truth is, the tool CANNOT CLONE alternative formation. But the tool is able to log passing, mentality and pressing changes (all you have to do is clicking the Statistic Tab)


You could do that in the past without the need of any tool by reading the logs left by the game engine when you play a game...
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