Change languageI have some questions, I have have seen some different "strategies" regarding this attribute. Some managers are fine with buying players who have maxed at 7/8, while some are going for minimum 9 and build their teams around these. Is there a huge difference between 7 - 9 pucks skill wise in your opinion?
How high do you value the power attribute?
What makes you think it is the most important attribute? Any examples?
Do you have a minimum requirement of how many pucks your lines should average in this skill?
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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mobi_dicky - 11-08-2017 00:30I like having players with the strength attribute of 8 up ..
But I also like players with a minimum of 5 skating
Strength - Endurance - kick and disarm are essential attributes for line players
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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agapitod - 11-08-2017 10:19It depends on the division you are. If you play in low division, there's no point in paying a lot for 10 power player. Also, if you play in countries with few managers and you focus only on winning official leagues, you don't need great players, so 7/8 in power is fine.
When you talk about top teams, 9 in power is the lowest you can accept for your starting XXI. The examples you will have watching matches (2D, 3D).
Power is the most important attribute but of course it doesn't do everything.. The more skating you have, the better.. Let's say a player with 8 in power and skating will be better than 9 in power and 4 in skating for example.
My ideal player is:
Intelligence: 6 acceptable, 7 or above ideal
Power: 9/10
Skating: 7 minimum
pass: 6 acceptable
Quickness: 7 minimum (but if you have a great player max at 5, 6 you should keep him)
Shooting: 8 is ok but for Top division it is not enough.
Puck Control: 6 acceptable
Tackling: same as shooting
Stamina: 7 minimum (for line 1 and 2, 7 in stamina is a bit short)
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Sv: Let's talk about - power
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prednibe - 11-08-2017 15:02You have good answers above but I don't think it is this black-or-white - it is much more nuanced.
How high do you value the power attribute?
It is the most important individual attribute for any player except the goalie. However, if you aggregate the total of pucks that is also very important. And if you sum up skate+quick+stamina that is also important.
When addressing your line up, you could just look at power, or just look at number of pucks etc. But since there is five players in every formation you also could work around individual limitations by combining contrasting players. I do not agree with agapitod's ideal player above since that make the team prohibitively expensive and also with an ineffective surplus of pucks imo. Better to do a design of your ideal formation and your ideal team with limitations on how good every player could be. It is easy to field (ice?) a winning team even if you have to have a 5-value in every formation.
What makes you think it is the most important attribute? Any examples?
Looking at U-play is always the easy way to make up your own mind about how attributes work individual and in a formation and in a team. Ask yourself why this player is performing and not the other. Sometimes it is because of the averages of different formations and sometimes it is the individual attributes - but it is easy to start thinking about decent working hypothesis when really analyzing u-play.
Do you have a minimum requirement of how many pucks your lines should average in this skill?
If you have several players that are lacking in power you are better of if you try to average them out through out the formations. Certain positions are more important than others and depending on what team you are fielding other averages could also be important (especially in U-play).
I would sure like more players in my teams like Aga's ideal...
But in fact, several great teams have won difficult elite competitions with:
*lower PI, pass and/or PC. You could sum those up and hope for at least 15 and unmaxed to have a good-enough elite player in a few seasons.
*skating/quickness/stamina much lower. Teams have won World Championships and National Top Series with maxed 4 or depreciated-to-a-4. But the entire team can not average on 5. But 6-7 players with 4-5 in one of those attributes is not a problem - as long as Power is high.
And that is the simple proof of why Power is more important than other attributes imo. But I guess that there aren't too many players with 4-5 in power and 10 in all other attributes to test, so there is a mindless copying of everyone's belief. Much better to find your own view and test it out!
(U-play = underage competitions)
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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deleted_5240478 - 11-08-2017 18:27
O have a wee table where I break all the attributes in to 10- this is a multiplier it all players are rated by defence wing and centre. I then select team with this. I have had a 4 power player in my line up (just) tho I aim for 8 to 10 power 8 to 10 stamina
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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agapitod - 11-08-2017 20:32prednibe wrote:I would sure like more players in my teams like Aga's ideal...
I'd love to have 20 of these but ideal and reality don't meet very often
I agree that the sum of pucks play an important role as well and I had great players max at 5 in quickness, 5 in skating and etc. I wouldn't sell a player with 10 in power and checking, 8 in stamina and etc because he's maxed at 5 in skating for instance. At the same time, a player with 10 in power and 10 in checking and 50 pucks total is not that good. It's subjective, but he asked and I answered what I have in mind for a top player.
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Sv: Let's talk about - power
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prednibe - 11-08-2017 23:28agapitod wrote:I'd love to have 20 of these but ideal and reality don't meet very often:D
I agree that the sum of pucks play an important role as well and I had great players max at 5 in quickness, 5 in skating and etc. I wouldn't sell a player with 10 in power and checking, 8 in stamina and etc because he's maxed at 5 in skating for instance. At the same time, a player with 10 in power and 10 in checking and 50 pucks total is not that good. It's subjective, but he asked and I answered what I have in mind for a top player.
Totally agree on all of the above! My point was just to make it clear that you don't actually need 'ideal'-players to win: as long as you have a variety of profiles that pushes the average of attributes upwards, then you might tolerate some pretty low values here and there in every formation. Just maybe not in power ;)
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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noild - 12-08-2017 23:36Nice to read these answers guys.
I just went to add something. When I came on Hockey part, the NC offered me to be him NCA without knowing which attribute is important.
When you start to analyse matches (mostly U21) the difference between 6/7/8/9/10 in power is really easy to see. When there is contact between two players the one who got higher puck in power has more chance to keep or take the puck. And contact in hockey... is 80% of the game.
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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sweem - 13-08-2017 12:14
Thanks for all the insightful answers guys, interesting. I generally have a guideline for myself to strictly train power for all youths, even if they arrive with only 2 pucks in that skill. Today my youths probably average 6,5 in the skill (second year youths) so good chances to increase
I value checking second highest after power, is that accurate you would say? Reason being, for puck possession -> if your player have good values in power and checking, it kind of goes hand in hand. Even for centers, I value checking about third highest after power and shooting.
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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noild - 13-08-2017 18:23Difficult to say, stamina is realy important but other skills I'm not sure. Hockey player have to be realy polyvalent in term of skills. I'm wondering if horizontal formation could be better than vertical formation. I mean increase skating/quickness/stamina/puck control & shoot/checking at the same level rather than one by one at max.
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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agapitod - 14-08-2017 09:49For youths development, I have some goals to achieve each season like gain 'x' amount of Power and stamina, and once they reach this amount settled by me, I start training other skills so they can be more balanced, more 'complete' to play tournaments as well.
I don't like training only power, or only power and tackling (for defenders) for instance.. This way, we may discover whether he'll be good or bad sooner but they won't perform in cups and leagues.
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Sv: Let's talk about - power
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prednibe - 15-08-2017 12:27sweem wrote:
I value checking second highest after power, is that accurate you would say?
No. ;)
Look at U21, as nolid pointed out, and you will be hard pressed to find players with high or low checking just by watching the games. What is checking? nolid gathers that contact between players are determined by power. That is interesting, because what is then checking?
Regarding youth my advice would be: focus on strength and then develop the major attributes quite evenly. (You can imo delay training on PI, pass and PC until good levels are reached in the majors, unless you are very close to a puck then it is better to take it asap.) Do not forget skate+quickness which U21 once again will prove is quite important re puck possession. And stamina is of course very important to give you more tactical options and avoid dropping dead in the third.
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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noild - 15-08-2017 16:23A good strategy could be (after power) increase attribute that YTC reveal. If I'm right your player increase more quickly in these skills and reach 6 puck minimum. Like this you can have a player with good number of puck.
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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agapitod - 15-08-2017 21:24Not true. I had a player that the YTC showed keeping, stamina and intelligence. He has maxed at 5 in keeping and stamina!!
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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damick - 16-08-2017 02:41As many said before, power is the most important attribute for line players because it is polivalent. It helps the team to steal puck control (which checking does), keep puck control(which puck control does) and dehabilitates the other team's players for a few seconds when your player makes a sucessfull tackle, which means that each tackle puts your team in power play for a few seconds and that is nothing to scoff at.
To keep the Power train running, your players need to be able play well the whole time, in comparison with the opponent. For that, resistance is vital. Which is why it is highly valued and although a team can play with a few low resistances players, they will make their lines play with 4.5 players by the end of the game, instead of 5, since he will be able to contribute, but not aways. For that reason you can't have too many players with low resistance. It helps that you can throw them all in line 4 and they will play for less time than other lines, greatly improving these players efficiency. For that reason, maybe having at most 5 low resistance players is ideal, making you able to lower the costs of your team.
Now that your team is strong and resilient, your team is able to dominate the field and create opportunities. There comes the importance of shooting. To be able to score with few tries is really important, as it makes you win if you are able to shoot only once. High shooting is vital if your team can't keep control of the field, be it for lower power, skating or bad positioning. So it is a alternative to use 8 power players with 10 shooting, which will make your team able to win more games shooting less than your opponent. But in the end you will shoot less nonetheless, making it harder to win, specially since your goalkeeper is not a brick wall.
Now that your team has high power, every other team has high power, which makes it really a pain win every tackle. There comes skating, which is a important attribute to make the most out of your powerful players. For that reason, a 10 power, 5 skating player plays well by a coin flip, because he can fall to anything, but he can take down anyone, being a glass cannon and a not really reliable player on ice.
I could continue on and on for other atributes, but it is very clear how important power is to make a good hockey player in MZ. There is, though theorically, a way to beat other teams with a 0 power team, as to say, it does not matter if your team has high power players or not. The players of such team would require high inteligence, skating, passing, quickness, shooting, checking, puck control and resistance. If your team win all faceoffs and is quick on its legs to escape the adversary players grasps, makes no passing mistakes and can even keep on its feet after getting trampled by a 10 power player, they could potencially win by not taking down a single player from the opponent. But we can all agree that such team is much difficult to train than keeping 9 power and above players and seeing where they go as they train.
All I said is my opinion on the matter of importance of atributes in the current meta and is by no means the only and right answer to your question, so take it with a grain of salt. Maybe with a new simulator, the other atributes importance will become more proeminent, for instance if players had sufficient inteligence and skating, puck control and quickness they could go around the opponents and avoid tackling, making so that power has only importance if your players can catch up to the opponents, But as it is, with the players mainly skating in a straight line, power becomes the pinnacle attribute of a sucessful player.
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Sv: Let's talk about - power
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prednibe - 17-08-2017 12:00@damick, Just be careful with a too literal understanding of the attributes. Try to test your theories! And see if you can interpret what the MZ-concepts actually could entail instead of relating to IRL-concepts that isn't very easy (ie impossible) to translate into a pretty simple sim.
Or more simply: do not put any weight in what the attributes actually are called. Find out what they mean on your own instead. What should be well known by now is that PI, Pass and PC are concepts that didn't get any distinct functions in the sim. The values in those attributes are not worthless but are "add-on" values that might be functional in certain events and in certain situations on their own or in combination with each other or in some combo with other attributes..
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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deleted_5240478 - 18-08-2017 20:38
Is PC not the most important attribute to win face offs?
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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sweem - 18-08-2017 22:15
@Brian_Mcsnail
I wonder the same, I think what decides the outcome of a faceoff is the amount of pucks (in total), but specifically play intelligence. That is of course just my own 'idea' of it. No one really knows to 100%, and I have read some different theories about faceoff, but my indicators to have the best faceoff % is: Have a good first line center with many total pucks (it's a big plus if he has PI)
I believe PI is quite undervalued by many managers - it helps to make decisions on the ice and not give away icings and always make a pass to the smartest option up the ice => more likely for chances being created. Basically like in reality, having a playmaker that sets up high percentage chances
Puck control for me means => high accuracy shots. If a player has 8 shooting and 8 in puck control, he is a high accuracy player, rather than a 10 shooter with 2 in puck control. When it comes to defending and having high puck control, I think it's less likely to fiddle around with the puck and lose it to an opponent in the own zone. Puck control defines how well you handle the puck (safety in own zone) and offensively how well you keep possession and establish time in the opponents zone. That is my personal opinion.
As already mentioned, checking is a quite vague attribute, but I see it useful both ways in offense and defense. It is everything from backchecking, forechecking, body checking. So, my settings for this would be, for example:
Line 1: Pressing -> Comitted (here I try to include players with high checking skill) in order to forecheck better as well as backcheck when defending. It means I am quick att pressing my opponents in the offensive zone and thereby also winning pucks in their zone. Defensively, if having good checking, I am likely to dispossess them with a hard backcheck (need quick players with good stamina for this). Maybe I am thinking in too realistic terms, but I believe checking is not only a defensive term -> also an offensive weapon
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Re: Let's talk about - power
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sweem - 18-08-2017 22:19
Forgot to mention some other thoughts
Quickness being the speed of the player, while Skating might seem like a similar skill, Skating is more the ability to avoid being tackled, basically representing the agility of the player.
Players with high skating = less likely to be hit by a skillfull opponent with high checking.
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